HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Agreed. We don't even have solid FH4 numbers, let alone 10 million in a year. He probably means players, which as we know, is a largely irrelevant metric when judging sales.
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Why has Gran Turismo managed to maintain it's relevance on the market while Forza Motorsport is struggling?
- Thread starter SimTourist
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Senua
Member
He's confusing sales with players
LordBlodgett
Member
IS there any comparison to another sim style racing game? This seems like a silly list to compare a racing game to.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
The OP mentions Forza Horizon. Calm down and read, friend.
Senua
Member
GT has always been huge..Forza was at it's biggest when (unsurprisingly) it was firing on all cylinders. FM 3-4 were big games and had real genuine hype around them for the simple fact T10 were doing great things then. As T10 started to mistep and lose player faith with their false promises they lost a large portion of their loyal fanbases to either GT or PC sims.
I think a lot of people moved over to Forza Horizon too, which isn't as much my thing as Motorsport games but for what they are, they are clearly better packages. You can see why they review higher, and it's not just because they are arcadey, early Forza Motorsport games reviewed into the 90s
I think a lot of people moved over to Forza Horizon too, which isn't as much my thing as Motorsport games but for what they are, they are clearly better packages. You can see why they review higher, and it's not just because they are arcadey, early Forza Motorsport games reviewed into the 90s
kirby007
Member
pro evo was the better footy tho
So you're playing dumb?
Unknown?
Member
If you did research, you'd know it was a completely non issue. MTX didnt effect the in-game currency. There were complaints, but they were unfounded and even then PD made it easier.Yikes I didn’t even realize their MTX were added after launch. And there were a lot of complaints about the grind needed for credits when the game launched. Wonder what effect that had on reviews
This is the easiest GT to get a high powered car, it gives them out like candy(to its detriment).
Gambit2483
Member
That would make for an interesting Poll on here...how well people think Forza sold
Calverz
Member
So you were talking shit about comparing sales data? Thanks for the backtrack
Calverz
Member
There is no sales data. Nice avatar
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Wait when did Forza Motorsport stop being relevant?
Gambit2483
Member
I'm guessing people are referring to the sales data, headlines, and announcements (or in this case lack thereof) of its performance after launch.
It's almost as if the game came and went. Then again it could actually be doing extremely well on GP but we just have no idea at this point.
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BootsLoader
Banned
Gran Turismo is synonymous with Simulation and real Racing. It was released on PS1 and was the only of its kind game (I talk about simulation). It remained the same until now, simple, elegant and true to its roots.
Forza is a good game but lacks an ID. I never exactly understood what is it. An arcade game? Simulation game? Something in between? Open world? Forza always confused me as a concept.
Forza is a good game but lacks an ID. I never exactly understood what is it. An arcade game? Simulation game? Something in between? Open world? Forza always confused me as a concept.
Senua
Member
Forza Motorsport = track based sim (yes it's a simulator just like GT is, just not as realistic as PC sims)
Forza Horizon = arcade open world
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
It came out 6 days ago.....it hasnt even been a week.
Its currently in the top 10 most played games on Xbox Live(whatever its called now).
What metric are we using to gauge the Forza Motorsport is not relvent anymore?
demigod
Member
I didn’t say there was. I am asking you how much you think it’ll do.
Also I doubt it hit number 1 sales in UK like GT7 did.
killatopak
Member
GT seems to be well known outside of gaming. There was just literally a movie about a player who managed to make it to real competitive racing sport due to GT tourneys.
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nemiroff
Gold Member
I'm not sure about the angle of the question.. If anything, you could even say FM has gained more relevance to GT because FM and the FH series is multiplatform now but Gran Turismo's marketshare peaked with GT5. AFAIK FM was never in the same class in marketshare back then anyway.
Anyway, console sim racers in general are not exactly in their prime anymore.
Anyway, console sim racers in general are not exactly in their prime anymore.
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What? I said when the sales data comes in
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
According to the Microsoft documents, 75% of the consoles sales during the month of April 2022 were Series S consoles. It's estimated that 1/2 to 2/3 of all Series consoles sold are the all-digital Series S. PC is also pretty much 100% digital. You won't see a racing game with 80% of its customer base being digital top retail charts.
As for this one, it's a technical disaster on PC so no surprise there. Forza is still one of the more popular brands of racing games at the moment. It never held a candle to GT in terms of popularity but saying it's "struggling to remain relevant," is completely unfounded.
Gambit2483
Member
Agreed, it's definitely too early to say anything either way. However in today's age of fast moving information people seem to expect major announcements about a games sales 3 to 4 days after launch.
Maybe that was the case for Xbox 10 years ago but Gamepass has completely changed what and how fast we will (and should) expect to see in regards to a game's performance sales wise or otherwise.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Forza games (outside of Horizon) have never been popular or strong selling in the grand scheme of things.
The series only exists because Phil Spencer is obsessed with having something to counter Sony's biggest franchises. The only reason new entries continue to be bankrolled by Xbox is for this reason.
The series only exists because Phil Spencer is obsessed with having something to counter Sony's biggest franchises. The only reason new entries continue to be bankrolled by Xbox is for this reason.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Sales, even though we have no sales data, and it's a GamePass game anyway. But lets ignore that GT peaked in sales with GT3 or GT4 depending on what source you use.
Or maybe critics, because FM at an 85 is certainly lower than it used to score. But lets ignore that GT peaked with critics with the first three games all scoring 96, 93, and 95 respectively, none of the others have hit 90.
Flutta
Banned
Yeah he mentioned it. But we all know that’s not the main comprison he was after. You can clearly see it in the OP and the thread title.
Comparing a SIM with and an arcade racer doesn’t make much sense, almost two completely different genres. I have a feeling you knew that already.
Unknown?
Member
Who gives a crap about critics? GT2 scoring lower than GT1 is a joke when GT2 was by far superior. Also Sport ended up close to the historical benchmark of 10M. It sold about what GT2 did. GT3 was peak but GT5 sold more than GT4. 11m vs 12m.
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Bumblebeetuna
Member
And it wasn't the main comparison in my post either, it was mentioned one time in the same manner the OP mentioned it. They're both racers, they both are Forza. Let me know where you need help connecting the dots.
Victor Omega
Member
You aren't forced to do anything unless you think buying Madden yearly from EA will somehow let 2K know you want the beloved 2K sports game back.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
I don't care about any of it, I was just laying out the criteria the OP did. Sales and critic acclaim. And both franchises have fallen quite a bit in those regards.
And I agree about GT2 vs GT1. GT2 is probably the best sequel to any game I have ever played.
demigod
Member
You clearly missed the point in your analogy. There are no alternatives to NFL football, meanwhile there is for GT7.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Wait, someone said that? Where?
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Doesn't Xbox + PC constitute a bigger userbase than PlayStation?
Victor Omega
Member
DragonNCM
Member
Hands down, GT is better driving simulator & it is first game to do that for all cars. Before GT in 1997 only real sim racing was Formula simulators.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Doesn't Xbox + PC constitute a bigger userbase than PlayStation?
Not really, these are console sim racers, PC users have far more advanced and realistic games + mods they tend to use. Not to mention, it's also on GamePass for PC.
Klosshufvud
Member
Gran Turismo feels like a luxury product that in many ways transcends just being a game. It's a pure celebration of everything automotive that even has car nuts who aren't typically gamers creaming themselves over it. The care and dedication that goes into all facets of the game is absolutely unrivaled, and it's not just because the car detail is the best in the industry - it's everything else, like the history lessons the game gives:
The unique manufacturer partnerships in Vision GT:
Vision Gran Turismo
The Vision Gran Turismo project started with a single question from Gran Turismo founder Kazunori Yamauchi: “Would you d...www.gran-turismo.com
The autistically detailed photo mode:
Even the menu design with the smooth jazz music creates the impression of something expensive:
Forza, and other racing games - hell, let us expand that to just other games in general - are good but come nowhere close to replicating the sophistication of GT. A release of a GT is an event like nothing else in gaming.
And that's just describing the 'feels' of the game. It is no slouch in terms of the technical details either like visuals, car and track selection, and best-in-class VR support.
Great points made! You simply can't replicate all those things that GT features without the devs having a burning passion for their craft. There is not a single fan out there that would request an encyclopedia of car history in GT. But they included it because they have this innate passion for this subject that they're somehow independent from fan feedback to propel the series forwards. And IMO that is the true mark of passionate and talented devs.
Seems to me Gran Turismo is back on an upwards trajectory both critically and commercially.
GTS was dinged because it was fundamentally different to traditional GT's. Although it's now widely regarded as being transformative for public racing on console. Not to mention a necessary step back in content to rebuild from the ground up. Commercially it sold some 8m copies (never confirmed officially, although there was lots of data scraped from the games servers). That was however after pretty deep price cuts shortly after launch.
GT7 launched to excellent reviews. Some 18 months on it's acknowledged to have some of the highest highs in the Gran Turismo franchise, but also some very strange design and event decisions. Nothing fundamentally wrong that couldn't be addressed with a major Spec II update. Commercially it's been consistently in the PSN top 20 sellers since launch. As mentioned earlier, it seems to have sold better than Horizon Forbidden West (we don't know about bundles) which passed 8.4m in May '23. So it seems GT7 will be the first GT to pass 10m units since GT5.
Hopefully the rumours are true and PD have been working on a nice update. The playerbase certainly deserves it after some lean months.
GT7
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Elysium44
Banned
Their passion for cars is undoubted but it's a shame they forgot to include a single player career mode. They included something the fans didn't ask for, but didn't include the thing they did ask for.
(I bought it a year ago and still haven't got through much of the menu books, and I am not happy I can't race on some of the new tracks as I haven't 'unlocked' them yet
)
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MacReady13
Member
I've put about 10 hours into the series x version of FM and only bug I've encountered so far is after I upgrade my car it won't save and so I need to reset the game. Only happened 3 times to me. Other than that, game plays absolutely fine and looks fucking incredible. I don't read too much into what others have said, but what am I missing about this new FM that so many seem to hate on it for? It controls very well. Looks the part. Is pretty damn addictive. What am I NOT seeing?!?
//DEVIL//
Member
Forza exist in the market because of GT.
GT is a better game in terms of physics and car details over even the newest FM which is supposed to be a next gen only.
I do not hate FM. and as a PC as main while PS5 is secondary, I would have loved it if FM is a better game so I can spend my racing time with it. but, I end up playing GT because its actually way better game.
oh and that RPG elements in FM.. yeah that can fuck off.
GT is a better game in terms of physics and car details over even the newest FM which is supposed to be a next gen only.
I do not hate FM. and as a PC as main while PS5 is secondary, I would have loved it if FM is a better game so I can spend my racing time with it. but, I end up playing GT because its actually way better game.
oh and that RPG elements in FM.. yeah that can fuck off.
NeverYouMind
Member
Newest Forza Motrosport has been in development forever and still came out undercooked. All this GaaS implementation will be the death of mainstream sim racers.
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Crayon
Member
GT went from a curiosity to a legit establishment in the space of a year. It came out of nowhere and was like nothing else. Forza came later and was the best of the copy attempts by far. But everything in that vain is forever going to be seen as a sort of child of GT.
GT was the right game at the right time and became a cultural touchstone. If you took a poll of name recognition of sim raceing series, the name GT is going to be more recognizable than all other combined and by a vast margin.
GT was the right game at the right time and became a cultural touchstone. If you took a poll of name recognition of sim raceing series, the name GT is going to be more recognizable than all other combined and by a vast margin.
Guerilla Munch
Member
GT has a vibe and a nostalgia factor that has been built upon for 25 years now. Other sim racers may do certain elements better, but GT is still the best overall package. It's comfy.
Calverz
Member
What sales data? There is no sales data. Microsoft don’t release sales numbers.
And why even use that as a comparison point. One launched day one on a subscription service lol
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