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[EruditeHobo]

This is why the answer to the OP is PS4. People get caught up in unit sales as the only measure of a success. PlayStation wouldn’t have survived another round of losses.

PS3 units and building that playerbase meant the PS4 didn't need to "come back". It was already poised to dominate by following through with that bought-in Sony playerbase that made the PS3 what it was late in its generation.

So the investment of the early financial "failure" of PS3 paved the way for the success of the PS4. Meanwhile, Switch was a complete reversal in almost every way from Wii U.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

By using SEGA America

In the PS2 days, SONY reported console shipped numbers, not sold. XBox fans used to point out the game to the hardware sale ratio too

But in the end, people only care about the winner. I seem to remember the Game Cube having the biggest launch in the UK out of all the consoles (at that point) That held up well didn't it

Well there is always a correlation between shipped and sold; you're not going to ship more than what the demand requires, and retailers aren't going to hold onto inventory at numbers and prices unfavorable for their bottom line for a lengthy period of time. So even if Sony just reported shipped back then (I wouldn't know, didn't follow sales data back then in fact Sony's sales numbers stuff at E3 was kind of a meme people poked fun at), they were selling through most if not all of those just by inference.

And stuff like attach ratio just give a general normalized sales rate per user. Doesn't say anything about the actual number of heavy buyers in any ecosystem, and higher attach ratios are way easier to do for systems with smaller install bases since most of that install base is going to be core enthusiasts who tend to buy more games anyway. I.e less mainstream and casual owners who would weigh down the attach rate average over time.

Still not necessarily seeing what this has to do with PS1 & Saturn, but I'd agree most people only care about the winners. I'm not one of those types; I got big love for classics like Saturn, Neo-Geo, PC-Engine etc. I just like also having accurate accounts of things that happened in the past, because I don't hold what happened to companies like SEGA against companies like Sony (whereas maybe a decade ago, I did fall into that type of trap).

What is this comparison ? The PS3 sold more than the 360, it just had a tough first few years. And the 360 is the biggest success of Microsoft in gaming, still Sony sold more...

It was a nice slap in Sony's "face" to tell them "hey come back to reality", that showed them that even though they're absolute leaders in this industry, that cannot do anything thy want, that there are limits.

The Switch in the other hands in coming after the Wii U, the biggest failure from Nintendo, 13 millions is 3 to 4 times less than the Xbox One, the biggest failure from MS (well the Series are doing worst), so yes the Switch after the Wii U really looks like they were reborn from their ashes.

I think like someone else ITT said, oversimplifying PS3/360 to just units sold misses the bigger picture. Yes PS3 got a pyrrhic victory over 360 when all was said and done in hardware units, and a way bigger one in mindshare with hardcore/core enthusiast gamers. But Sony lost a MASSIVE amount of market share and mindshare in the Americas and UK markets, at a time when the U.S market in particular was still the largest for gaming overall (mobile hadn't taken off yet, PC was in a slump in general so consoles were still the big breadwinners in total gaming market growth).

Almost all of the cultural mindshare Xbox was able to leverage upon for XBO and Series, even if it has been depleting increasingly so over the years due to terrible brand management, can be owed directly to the 360's Western (mainly US & UK) market performance during 7th gen. And more specifically, how it gained so much of that at the expense of PlayStation losing a ton on both fronts that same generation.

The tail-end of PS3 helped to start reversing some of that, but right up to XBO & PS4's reveals and I'd say even their release, a vast majority of Western gamers and press were still betting on XBO having the lead last gen. It took until like six months after both systems launched for a good chunk of them to even begin considering the likelihood 8th-gen was Microsoft's to lose. It wasn't even until post-Titanfall and Rise of the Tomb Raider debacle (a bit after Uncharted 4's launch), and E3 2016, when a lot of these types finally accepted Xbox lost 8th-gen!

That's how much mindshare Xbox still had with media and lots of gamers by that point, again thanks to 360's dominance in the US & UK.

 

[Kilau]

PS3 units and building that playerbase meant the PS4 didn't need to "come back". It was already poised to dominate by following through with that bought-in Sony playerbase that made the PS3 what it was late in its generation.

So the investment of the early financial "failure" of PS3 paved the way for the success of the PS4. Meanwhile, Switch was a complete reversal in almost every way from Wii U.

It's not just about units, Sony lost every bit of profit they ever made on PlayStation with the PS3 so yes, the PS4 was a huge comeback. The Switch is a reversal of the Wii U in that it's literally a reverse of the Wii U, dummy dock and smart tablet instead of dummy tablet. They also consolidated their home and portable systems so it's more of a shift for them than a comeback from either the Wii U or 3DS which both made a profit. I know Nintendo had losses also, but they operate on totally different margins.

 

[TGO]

The PS3 was a against all odds comeback, that is the proper & only answer

 

[March Climber]

I can sum up this thread:

American answer: PS3
Rest of world's answer: Wii U

The American narrative around the PS3 is fascinating.

 

[Gambit2483]

Going from 13 million lifetime sales to 135+ million lifetime sales (and growing) in just one generation...I don't know any console maker that had that kind of comeback. I'd definitely say Nintendo.

 

[Deerock71]

9.4% of you are smoking some QUALITY ganja.

 

[Puscifer]

PS3 /thread

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I can sum up this thread:

American answer: PS3
Rest of world's answer: Wii U

The American narrative around the PS3 is fascinating.

What narrative is that?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Switch easily.

PS3 sold around 85M. PS4 ended at 120M.

Wii U sold only about 13M units. Switch will sell at least 10x that. Switch even outsold PS4 and that even includes its mid gen Pro refresh. Switch is also much more innovative being a console/handheld hybrid with a docking station,

 

[Alan Wake]

The PS3 probably lost Sony more money than did the Wii U for Nintendo. But the Wii U was a disaster on a whole different level. Remember the discussions about their next console being "the last chance". The PS3 did reasonably well in the end and had some of the best games of that generation. The Wii U was a train wreck from the day it was announced. (Watch the 2011 reveal again and you'll remember.)

 

[March Climber]

What narrative is that?

The American narrative is that the Xbox 360 was the PS2 of that generation and that the PS3 was a failure.

 

[rodrigolfp]

The PS3 sold quite well. There's no comparison to the Wii I, which almost put Nintendo out of business.

You cannot vote for anything but the switch, we thought Nintendo was done for, out of the console industry as a whole kinda dead.

Sony was closer to be out of business/dead with the PS3 than Nintendo with the Wii U, that still made cash. Nintendo has enough in cash to fail "in red" for some generations. It's like you only see units sold/revenue and think this equal success. It's profits that make money.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

The American narrative is that the Xbox 360 was the PS2 of that generation and that the PS3 was a failure.

Well in America and UK that was 100% the case. In fact the 360 sold better than PS2 in those markets for respective gens, although it took a while to reach that point (mainly aided by COD).

Compared to what the PS2 did in those markets, PS3 did underperform sales-wise, but it got better from 2009-2013. PS3 did lose a TON of money for Sony, though, significantly more than Wii U did for Nintendo. Which is why the answer IMHO is very complicated, but a lot of people are only going by unit sales growth to say Switch was the bigger comeback out of it and PS4.

 

[LakeOf9]

How are y'all answering PS4 lol, wtf

 

[OuterLimits]

Out of business? Never heard that before. Don’t they have several billions in a warchest they can use if their console is a flop?

Yes, they still had a very sizeable warchest. Plus, I think some forget the 3DS was was successful during that period(after a rough start also).

 

[Jubenhimer]

Yes, they still had a very sizeable warchest. Plus, I think some forget the 3DS was was successful during that period(after a rough start also).

Yup, the 3DS was able to be salvaged in spite of its own issues (Competition from Smartphones, Outdated hardware, poor launch, mediocre sales outside Japan, etc.). It was enough to buy Nintendo some time to ride out the Wii U disaster until the Switch was ready to go.

 

[ManaByte]

There is no contest, Switch is the bigger comeback from the lowest lows of Wii U. It sold Dreamcast numbers (if that?)

But at no point was Nintendo anywhere close to going out of business. They could have just released nothing and skipped the gen and still been nowhere near it.

DC sold just over 9 million.

Wii U sold 13 million a decade later in a larger market.

 

[Deerock71]

How are y'all answering PS4 lol, wtf

Some think the PS3 not being the success the PS2 was was a klaxon red alert, unlike, say, only selling 13 million units.

EDIT- The poll speaks for itself.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Switch, but at what cost?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Playstation 3 was the most significant turnaround in gaming history.
Was so good it poored into the next gen.

 

[baphomet]

That's like comparing the PS1 to the Virtual Boy

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Initially voted for Switch, but have changed my mind and I've gone with PS4.

Switch cannibalized sales of the handheld and console platforms of Nintendo and against no competition in the handheld space. If you combine Wii and DS sales you reach 255 million. Switch is no where close to that. It's been more productive than 3DS and Wii U combined, but that really isn't saying much.

The PS4 took the position back for Sony as market leader and put multiple nails in the coffin for Xbox. PS4 saved Sony as a company.

 

[BlackTron]

DC sold just over 9 million.

Wii U sold 13 million a decade later in a larger market.

For some reason I had it in my head that DC did 20.

Must be my inner Sega fanboy flaring up

 

[Shifty1897]

Go take a look at global PS3 sales vs the Xbox 360 and tell me it somehow failed. The Wii U was a total bomb, the likes of which Nintendo hasn't seen since the Virtual Boy.

 

[Astral Dog]

One was the succesor of the PlayStation 3

The other was the succesor of the Wii U

You do the Math

 

[AJUMP23]

Switch was never down.

 

[AGRacing]

The PS3 September 2009 reset was the comeback. That was an amazing time.

 

[nial]

It's also worth mentioning that the PS3 gen ate most if not all the profits that SCE/SIE generated during PS1 and PS2 era.

2006 was truly the dark age, and not entirely because of PS3. PS2's lineup that year was really, really sad.

 

[NightmareFarm]

Switch since the PS3 ended up outselling the 360 despite a weak early game. The Wii U on the other hand sold less than the Gamecube.

 

[ManaByte]

Go take a look at global PS3 sales vs the Xbox 360 and tell me it somehow failed.

Jack Tretton said taking over SCEA after the $599 E3 was like being the captain of the Titanic.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Well, the PS4’s predecessor sold nearly 90 million units, and made Sony billions of dollars. The Switch’s predecessor sold 13 million units and caused Nintendo to lose money for 4 years in a row. This really isn’t a difficult question.

 

[SF Kosmo]

PS4 wasn't really a comeback; the PS3 came back from its early failures in its lifetime. PS4 just carried that momentum forward.

Switch was a huge reversal of fortune that few saw coming.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Edit: just woke up, but Switch.

Apart from coming from the flop called WiiU, selling more than 100M homeconsoles isn't standard for Nintendo. (Wii was an unexpected hit, but it was also the least-used console that gen)

Whereas it's to be expected from Sony

 

[Deerock71]

Go take a look at global PS3 sales vs the Xbox 360 and tell me it somehow failed. The Wii U was a total bomb, the likes of which Nintendo hasn't seen since the Virtual Boy.

Not to mention it was a fuck-up of TITANIC proportions going with that confusing-ass name. I guarantee you some casuals still think it was just an add-on to the Wii to this very day.

 

[Ozzie666]

Sony was selling office buildings to make ends meets. They were on the brink of being the next Sega. Nintendo's console performance was dire, but they were never in the same situation. I would also argue the Sony come back began at the tail end of the PS3. WIIU never had that momentum.

 

[Svejk]

PS3 was awesome, so I'd give it to Snitch.

 

[FeralEcho]

PS3 finished 2nd after Wii despite the rocky start and had the greatest exclusives of the entire generation.Putting it in the same boat as the Wii U is a disgrace.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

You have to be pretty disillusioned to even ask this question. I love my PS4 but there is no question Nintendo's turnaround from the Wii-U to Switch is the biggest comeback in gaming history.

 

[March Climber]

Well in America and UK that was 100% the case. In fact the 360 sold better than PS2 in those markets for respective gens, although it took a while to reach that point (mainly aided by COD).

Compared to what the PS2 did in those markets, PS3 did underperform sales-wise, but it got better from 2009-2013.

And because of your post I'd make the argument that PS360 gen is actually not similar to the PS2 generation, because there is a clear split in when both consoles had their time in the spotlight, both in sales, in marketing, and in word of mouth. This never happened during the PS2 generation as the PS2 was simply known as the console to have for it's entire run.

I will gladly admit that Xbox 360 was running laps around PS3 in it's first 3-4ish years, but suddenly things flipped in the last 3-4 years when Xbox dried up with great exclusive content(before anyone corrects me, I'm not saying there was no exclusive content at all, just much less and some of it lesser quality). That's where Xbox 360 fans will disagree and not admit that things had flipped, but it was true. You suddenly saw more and more big exclusives come out of the Sony camp including some Japanese developers simply leaving the 360 behind due to the JP audience not really caring about it at all, thus adding even more console exclusives for Sony to advertise, which meant more eyes on the PS3. The PS3 became a behemoth in the second half of the generation but people don't want to give it credit for that.

Due of this and what I said above about outside of America(and parts of Europe) 360 wasn't really seen as the big choice to get, I can never name only Xbox 360 solely as a PS2 successor. I consider the term 'PS360' the best way to describe that gen, and it felt like a baton was passed from 360 to ps3, halfway through a very long and arduous relay race with the Wii.

Edit: PS4 wasn't a comeback, because PS3 had already set up the pass. PS4 just had to put the ball into the net and score.

 

[Jubenhimer]

I will gladly admit that Xbox 360 was running laps around PS3 in it's first 3-4ish years, but suddenly things flipped in the last 3-4 years when Xbox dried up with great exclusive content(before anyone corrects me, I'm not saying there was no exclusive content at all, just much less and some of it lesser quality). That's where Xbox 360 fans will disagree and not admit that things had flipped, but it was true. You suddenly saw more and more big exclusives come out of the Sony camp including some Japanese developers simply leaving the 360 behind due to the JP audience not really caring about it at all, thus adding even more console exclusives for Sony to advertise, which meant more eyes on the PS3. The PS3 became a behemoth in the second half of the generation but people don't want to give it credit for that.

You also have to remember just how dire third party support was on PS3 during the first half of its life as well. All the Japanese games that would've been exclusive to PlayStation were now suddenly launching first/only on 360. Microsoft was securing exclusive deals for DLC and console launches left and right with games like BioShock and GTA IV, and the PS3 was constantly stuck with crappy ports thanks to CELL that often came out after the 360 and PC versions. It was basically a GameCube/Wii U-like scenario for Sony, a far cry from the PS1 and PS2 days, and unlike Nintendo, their first party wasn't at the point where they could rely on it exclusively yet.

Fortunately Sony cleaned up its act and actually started fighting back. Resulting in better versions of games that came day-and-date more frequenly thanks to Sony overhauling its communication and tools support to developers. Sony starting to play Microsoft's game of nabbing exclusive DLC and content for PS3 versions of games, Sony repairing its JP dev relations and starting to get JP third party exclusives again with Yakuza and the Tales games, especially after the 360's JP push fell flat.

 

[Shifty1897]

Not to mention it was a fuck-up of TITANIC proportions going with that confusing-ass name. I guarantee you some casuals still think it was just an add-on to the Wii to this very day.

I remember my aunt thought it was an add-on upgrade to the Wii and asked me about it. I'll never understand what Nintendo was thinking about the name. Should have just called it the Wii 2.

 

[Honey Bunny]

Switch really isnt as impressive as it looks on paper because it represents the continuation of both their handheld and home console lines in one.

 

[Robb]

Switch really isnt as impressive as it looks on paper because it represents the continuation of both their handheld and home console lines in one.

It’s insanely impressive. Nintendo broke their previous profit record with the Switch all the way back in 2021, the previous record being held by the Wii/DS which sold a total of 256M combined.

They’ve never been more successful.

 

[tmlDan]

Sony was closer to be out of business/dead with the PS3 than Nintendo with the Wii U, that still made cash. Nintendo has enough in cash to fail "in red" for some generations. It's like you only see units sold/revenue and think this equal success. It's profits that make money.

That was less the consoles fault and more all of Sony's fault, but you have a point

 

[UltimaKilo]

Sony was closer to be out of business/dead with the PS3 than Nintendo with the Wii U, that still made cash. Nintendo has enough in cash to fail "in red" for some generations. It's like you only see units sold/revenue and think this equal success. It's profits that make money.

Reggie had stated that had Nintendo failed again with the Switch, the company would have been done.

How the Nintendo Switch saved Nintendo

After releasing the Wii U, Nintendo was in big financial trouble. They would need something truly special to help revitalize the company, and hopefully Nintendo Switch would be that answer.

n4g.com

 

[UltimaKilo]

There is no contest, Switch is the bigger comeback from the lowest lows of Wii U. It sold Dreamcast numbers (if that?)

But at no point was Nintendo anywhere close to going out of business. They could have just released nothing and skipped the gen and still been nowhere near it.

Not the case at all. They were very close to failure with their stocks in jeopardy of heading towards junk status.

How the Nintendo Switch saved Nintendo

After releasing the Wii U, Nintendo was in big financial trouble. They would need something truly special to help revitalize the company, and hopefully Nintendo Switch would be that answer.

n4g.com

 

[Happosai]

Switch was never down.

That was how I read this too. Seems like they were doing fine prior to 2020 and they were given a boost. I didn't see the boost necessarily as 'comeback' given they weren't dropping. The thread seems to have spoken that it'd be niether...err...neither (PS3).

I'd argue based on all the forum threads that certain Sega consoles came back after the fact. Saturn has triple the popularity that it did during it's production years and almost the same could be said for Dreamcast. Can't really call those comebacks as they never gained momentum during their initial run and (in DCs case) were in part the reason why Sega dropped out of the console game.

 

[Marvel14]

87.4 >14

 

[BlackTron]

Not the case at all. They were very close to failure with their stocks in jeopardy of heading towards junk status.

How the Nintendo Switch saved Nintendo

After releasing the Wii U, Nintendo was in big financial trouble. They would need something truly special to help revitalize the company, and hopefully Nintendo Switch would be that answer.

n4g.com

When someone leaves a 15 minute video of a "witty youtuber" to make a point I want to kill myself. Well, that random youtube guy said it generally alluded to it, so it must be true.

I'm just gonna copy and paste this from the comments over there:

One thing you didn't mention in your video was despite the Wii U's failure, Nintendo had a "war chest" of 10.5 BILLION in actual, liquid cash in the bank. They had enough cash to run a deficit of 257 million dollars for 38 straight years before it would run out. And that's just cash. That's not even factoring in the worth of their total assets. Thats why I would laugh anytime people suggested that Nintendo might go the way of Sega and become a 3rd party publisher. Despite the failure of the Wii U, Nintendo's financial situation compared to Sega's was light-years apart.

The whole comment section is making fun of this guy lol.

I made an effort to find some kind of statement on their stock but it wasn't in any parts of the video I could endure, so I just looked it up. I mean, the actual stock history, not some guy (allegedly?) saying it.

Between 2000-2005, N stock hovered between 3-5 bucks. It began a spike in 2006 that apexed in 2007 at $15, then rapidly fell down to $7 only two years into Wii. By 2011 it had returned to its old behavior of fluctuating between $3-5, at least until Switch 6 years later. This doesn't seem to paint the story you're telling that Wii U single-handedly devastated the stock. It just failed to spike it like Wii accomplished, and most of that increase was aready dissipated only 2 years in...Wii U was not necessary.