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[Jubenhimer]

Sony's PlayStation 4 and Nintendo's Switch consoles are rather interesting. They're both the two best selling game systems of the past generation, and have become beloved systems with large and varied game libraries and innovative features. Yet, the story of their creation and the scenario surrounding them are eerily similar to each-other.

• They're both consoles that succeeded strange, obtuse platforms that struggled compared to their competition (PS3 vs. 360/Wii and 3DS/Wii U vs. Smartphones/Tablets)
• They both opted for off-the-shelf parts that were easy-to-develop-for and more compatible with modern development tools (x86 and Tegra)
• They both had a software developer as their lead architect and worked to integrate the first party teams and third party developers into the development process from the start (Mark Cerny and Yoshiaki Koizumi)
• They both cut the bloat of their predecessors by focusing on games first and foremost
• They both had a well executed reveal that showed that they were learning from their predecessors failures
• They both marked a fundamental change from how the companies created hardware before.

Between the PS4 and Switch, which did you think was the biggest comeback? While the PS4's success was impressive, it's hard to deny that the Switch was the more surprising one. The PlayStation 3 at least sobered up and turned itself around in the later half of its generation, which helped set the stage for Sony's success with the PS4. Sony smartly capitalizing on its biggest rival self-destructing also helped.

Nintendo however, was facing an uphill battle on both ends. The Wii U was a colossal failure and continued the trend sans Wii of Nintendo home consoles loosing more and more of their audience to other systems. Meanwhile the Nintendo 3DS, while a decent success, was facing its own issues surrounding the ubiquity of smartphones and tablets and the games you can play on them, putting the future of the dedicated portable gaming market, once Nintendo's bread and butter, into question. Many argued that Nintendo should either play ball and make a powerful, competitive big boy console like Sony or Microsoft, or get out of platform development entirely and go third party like Sega. Fortunately, the Switch ended up prevailing in the end thanks to its easy-to-use hybrid nature.

 

[nial]

PS4, mostly because SCEI was bleeding money in 2006-2010.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I'll go with the Switch. The PS3 wasn't a total failure like the Wii U and come the final few years of that generation it began to stretch it legs both sales and software wise. I believe it ended up selling more than the 360 despite the late launch, higher price, all the 3rd party MS money hats, Xbox 1st party games, and other critcisms it suffered. Whilst the Wii U was rejected globally and the Switch was a gamble, so it's impressive to see the change from mass rejection to mass adoption.

However, it's still impressive to see how successful the PS4 was (and still is) and how much that changed the fortunes for the entirety of Sony.

 

[cormack12]

Sony were on the up at the end of the PS3 era and Microsoft were trending down. Also the reveals in terms of power and price set the tone for the Xbone/PS4 era

Nintendo had more to prove imo, they've still had weird failures like that cardboard Labo shite but they had no room for misstep, took the bigger gamble and it's been a goldmine for them.

 

[UltimaKilo]

The PS3 sold quite well. There's no comparison to the Wii I, which almost put Nintendo out of business.

 

[Team Andromeda]

PS3 wasn't a flop in sales and all the Switch is a 3DS 2 in all but name Just took over the mad sales of Nintendo Handheld units, that's always sold millions of units.
I

 

[Jubenhimer]

PS3 wasn't a flop in sales and all the Switch is a 3DS 2 in all but name Just took over the mad sales of Nintendo Handheld units, that's always sold millions of units.
I

Its easy to forget things weren't all sunshine and rainbows on the 3DS' end either. The console had a notoriously rough start in its first year, and struggled to stand out from mobile gaming and other home consoles with its ancient tech that lacked a lot of middle-ware compatibility, and 3D gimmick that never panned out the way Nintendo hoped.

It was able to be somewhat salvaged thanks to Nintendo's aggressive tactics (price cut, ambassador program, first party development, third party deals like Monster Hunter). The 3DS is very much Nintendo's PS3, and fortunately Nintendo learned all the right lessons from it with the Switch.

 

[Soodanim]

This is a one answer thread and I don't know how anyone can say it's anything but.

PS3 turned it round and ended on a high, while Wii U faded away. In terms of making up for its predecessor, PS4 didn't need to make up for anything. Nintendo made mistakes and very much did need the redemption.

 

[Fredrik]

There's no comparison to the Wii I, which almost put Nintendo out of business.

Out of business? Never heard that before. Don’t they have several billions in a warchest they can use if their console is a flop?

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

If PS3 didn’t need you to have a second job to buy one at launch, especially in Euroland, this thread you couldn’t even dream of opening.
WiiU could be bought with lemonade stand money at launch and kids would still open two lemonade stands to get a PS4 rather than buying a WiiU. This is not a question.

 

[nial]

NeoIkaruGAF

 

[Three]

Which system? The Switch.
Which company? SIE

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

the PS3 kind of made its own comeback, launching slow but gathering up momentum later

 

[POKEYCLYDE]

PS3 had already made a comeback by the end of it's generation.

The Wii U was a complete and utter failure and if the Switch failed the writing was on the wall for Nintendo.

So the Switch was a bigger comeback for Nintendo.

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

I voted for the Switch, the PS5 had a rough start, to expensive, ( to buy it you needed a second job) alot of negative press in the beginning, but made a great comeback and in the end it came out on top. The Switch made a great comeback from the previous generation....

 

[Jubenhimer]

This is a one answer thread and I don't know how anyone can say it's anything but.

PS3 turned it round and ended on a high, while Wii U faded away. In terms of making up for its predecessor, PS4 didn't need to make up for anything. Nintendo made mistakes and very much did need the redemption.

Well it kind of needed to make up for the billions that Sony lost on the PS3's rough first half and subsequent turnaround though.

 

[deriks]

By the later half of PS3's life, Sony understood that was too arrogant and started changing the PS3 persona and the exclusives became way better. Kijda helped that the 360 was fucking around too, but still

Nintendo fucked up bad on the Wii U marketing. Nobody understood shit, and the console was too much gimmicky with no substantial value. The Switch was everything that the Wii U should have been from the start, and this hybrid thing can never go anymore. It's amazing

 

[Robb]

Switch, easily. Crazy turnaround.

 

[MALpractice311]

It's got to be the Switch. The PS4 was a big turnaround, but the momentum was already shifting towards Sony and away from MS by the end of the PS3/X360 generation, as the PS3 had caught up to (or even overtaken, if I remember correctly) the 360's sales. The WiiU by comparison damn near killed Nintendo.

 

[Woopah]

Both Sony and Nintendo were caught out by the increasing development times/budgets making it unfeasible to support two seperate ecosystems. This is largely what led to the failure of the Vita and Wii U.

Thankfully both have now turned things around to focus on one ecosystem, allowing them to be very successful with solid financial results.

I'm very excited by the future of both companies.

 

[Godot25]

Lol. what a stupid question.

PS3 sold 85+ million consoles despite it's shortcomings and bad launch. PS4 sold 115+ million consoles. "Only" 30 million more.
WiiU sold 13,5 million consoles. Switch sold 132 million consoles. that's almost 10x increase.

 

[apple_of_enlightenment]

The primary reason for PS3's uptick toward the end of its lifecycle was the downturn of Wii and the coffin nails of WiiU, so the two answers are related.

Nintendo is the answer of course as they came back from a near death experience.

Very good question I think

 

[Badlucktroll]

I remember the Ps3 launch day….. Lines at stores, people waiting all night, then you could walk into a store and buy one a week later

 

[tusharngf]

Steam after 7th gen consoles. I remember publisher's skipping games on pc during that phase

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Of course, it was the Nintendo Switch. The WiiU sold all of what? 15M in 4 years? That's even crazy to imagine.

If we are being honest we can't even put the PS4 in this category, sony had different kinda problems. The PS3 having sold almost 90M can't even be called a failure in the grand scheme of things, and if you wanna talk Sony comebacks, that was actually with the PS3. They fell off their throne and clawed their way back up in that same generation.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

The primary reason for PS3's uptick toward the end of its lifecycle was the downturn of Wii and the coffin nails of WiiU, so the two answers are related.

Nope, this is not true. The people that actually benefited from the downturn of the Wii was the 360 with their Kinect. So much so that they stupidly bundled it with their next-gen console. The primary reason the PS3 turned things around was because it was finally affordable, and Sony was pushing out banger after banger. The Sony Blockbuster first party that they are known for today, was truly created in the PS3 gen.

Sony did in the PS3 gen what MS should have done in the XB1 gen, and still is yet to do in the current gen. Cut out all the bullshit and focus on making the best games possible.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

It's also worth mentioning that the PS3 gen ate most if not all the profits that SCE/SIE generated during PS1 and PS2 era.

 

[EruditeHobo]

PS3's in-gen reversal is itself a comeback, the stage was already set for PS4 to dominate.

Easy answer for Switch IMO, as Wii U was a joke.

 

[TexMex]

It is measurably the Switch, not anyones opinion. PS3 had really rebounded by the end. I read it outsold the 360 (globally of course) by the end of their life cycles

 

[JohnnyFootball]

It’s the Switch by a light year. Nobody should ask this. The answer is mega obvious.

I still maintain that calling it the Wii U was Nintendos biggest mistake.

 

[SenkiDala]

What is this comparison ? The PS3 sold more than the 360, it just had a tough first few years. And the 360 is the biggest success of Microsoft in gaming, still Sony sold more...

It was a nice slap in Sony's "face" to tell them "hey come back to reality", that showed them that even though they're absolute leaders in this industry, that cannot do anything thy want, that there are limits.

The Switch in the other hands in coming after the Wii U, the biggest failure from Nintendo, 13 millions is 3 to 4 times less than the Xbox One, the biggest failure from MS (well the Series are doing worst), so yes the Switch after the Wii U really looks like they were reborn from their ashes.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Its easy to forget things weren't all sunshine and rainbows on the 3DS' end either. The console had a notoriously rough start in its first year, and struggled to stand out from mobile gaming and other home consoles with its ancient tech that lacked a lot of middle-ware compatibility, and 3D gimmick that never panned out the way Nintendo hoped.

It was able to be somewhat salvaged thanks to Nintendo's aggressive tactics (price cut, ambassador program, first party development, third party deals like Monster Hunter). The 3DS is very much Nintendo's PS3, and fortunately Nintendo learned all the right lessons from it with the Switch.

I remember it well and how Nintendo cut the price and so was for the 1st time in the corps history selling a system at a big loss, but hey it worked.

I remember when SEGA was kicking SONY's in Japan. SEGA Saturn outsellsing the PS at a ratio of 8 to 1 with VF2 breaking all records in Japan for the biggest Pre-orders in Japan.
A demo for FF7 comes out and that's all forgotten LOL or how SEGA Europe killed Nintendo for sales

It's very easy to forget.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

Switch.

Sony was kinda lucky with the PS4 because both Microsoft and Nintendo did a huge oopsie that gen, so there was barely any competition at launch.

 

[Soodanim]

Well it kind of needed to make up for the billions that Sony lost on the PS3's rough first half and subsequent turnaround though.

Was it billions? I don't know the numbers for that generation

Edit: missed the big graph a few posts up

 

[Kumomeme]

PS3 already made a comeback over late around a year launch and now narrowly exceeding Xbox 360

Switch on otherhand, previous console Wii U merely sold around 8m if i not mistaken.

 

[zeomax]

Out of business? Never heard that before.

This comes from the same people who always claim that the only way for Nintendo to survive is to go third party.

 

[Kilau]

It's also worth mentioning that the PS3 gen ate most if not all the profits that SCE/SIE generated during PS1 and PS2 era.

This is why the answer to the OP is PS4. People get caught up in unit sales as the only measure of a success. PlayStation wouldn’t have survived another round of losses.

 

[Saber]

I would say both. Both WiiU and the management of the PS3 era were terrible.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I have a different view of a comeback.

Like PS3 overcoming the high price, inferior ports, loss of big third exclusives, and a timed exclusive hungry Xbox 360.

Sega would’ve killed that hardware after a year.

 

[yurinka]

I'd say neither. Switch merged their dying home console userbase and dev teams into their already successful portables userbase, where with Switch for the first time they got the monopoly because Sony moved away.

So Switch is the successor of WiiU+3DS+Vita in the previous gen, and Wii+DS+PSP in the previous one.

Sony had PS3+PSP, and later PS4+Vita. Sony's portable userbase was dying, so they focused their dev teams and userbase in home consoles only. First on PS4 and later in PS5.

So I don't see any comeback, simply both companies focusing on a single device instead of two. To better dominate the market where each one was stronger and basically leave the one where they were dying.

It's also worth mentioning that the PS3 gen ate most if not all the profits that SCE/SIE generated during PS1 and PS2 era.

I wouldn't be that sure, PS1 got discontinued in 2006 and PS2 in 2013.

PS3 was released in 2006 and got discontinued in 2017. During these 11 PS3 years there were also there PS2, PSP, Vita and PS4 there.

If you only look at its 11 years ignoring the other ones, there green years almost compensate the red ones but still there's a loss there. But it's a loss way smaller than the profits they had when combining the years prior to their release.

And more importantly, that graph is out of context because it isn't showing their revenue. They had a steady revenue, and around that peak of PS3/PSP launch window loses they were also having record revenue, so they knew that in the long term as these launch R&D+marketing cost went away they'd slowly recover the loses.

Later in Vita/PS4/PS5 they moved to a more standard PC/mobile hardware that would highly reduce launch window R&D loses, which combined with the profits of the PS+ sub and extra profitability of digital games compared to retail ones (both PS+ and digital games launched in PS3) did help neutralize loses in future hardware releases:

 

[MiguelItUp]

Honestly the Switch IMO. The eras for PS3 and Wii/Wii U were both awful. The PS3 had some high highs, especially with some of their exclusives. But man, I thought PSN was a nightmare, especially compared to how user friendly the XBL dashboard experience was. The Wii had it's peaks and valleys too, for sure, but no reason to get too into those. As I'm sure everyone knows what they were for the most part. The Wii U was handled SO poorly, it was absolutely shocking. Especially looking back at it. The lack of titles as a whole, the lack of using the devices hardware, etc.

The Switch was such a huge improvement across the board IMO.

 

[ReBurn]

It's also worth mentioning that the PS3 gen ate most if not all the profits that SCE/SIE generated during PS1 and PS2 era.

Sure puts Krazy Ken becoming honorary chairman into perspective.

Sony moving to x86 definitely set PlayStation up for better financial success.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Considering the PS3 still outsold 360 even with a horrid start and the PS4 top-end sales were capped due to the pandemic plus never dropping below $299 with a Super Slim, I'd have to say the Switch was the bigger comeback story....at least on the surface. The Wii U was doing Saturn/Dreamcast type of numbers and became a footnote almost immediately. To bounce back from that to the Switch was a stroke of genius.

This isn't me underselling the PS4's comeback, because it absolutely did claw back and reverse both market share & mindshare in the only two markets Microsoft had a big lead in with the 360 (US & UK). But the worst times for PS3 were still miles better than almost all of the best times the Wii U ever saw, and unlike PS3, Wii U's problems were in ALL the global markets, not just one or two.

Though I guess even this doesn't tell the full story. Even with Wii U performing as badly as it did, a lot of Nintendo's own software did really well on it, and they were never in danger of shutting down their gaming operations. Sony ran that risk with PS3 if they weren't able to turn things around, and sunk costs wiped away all profits made between the PS1 & PS2. So from a monetary POV, the PS4 was a bigger comeback for Sony than the Switch was for Nintendo.

Because of these complications, I chose both.

PS3 already made a comeback over late around a year launch and now narrowly exceeding Xbox 360

Switch on otherhand, previous console Wii U merely sold around 8m if i not mistaken.

It was 15 million.

I remember it well and how Nintendo cut the price and so was for the 1st time in the corps history selling a system at a big loss, but hey it worked.

I remember when SEGA was kicking SONY's in Japan. SEGA Saturn outsellsing the PS at a ratio of 8 to 1 with VF2 breaking all records in Japan for the biggest Pre-orders in Japan.
A demo for FF7 comes out and that's all forgotten LOL or how SEGA Europe killed Nintendo for sales

It's very easy to forget.

I don't think this ever happened. Remember, SEGA relied a lot on reporting sell-in (to retailers), and that would usually get compared to Sony's sold-through (to customers). The only year it seems Saturn had a massive advantage install-base wise over the PS1 was late 1994, for the December in which both systems launched there. IIRC it was something like 300K PS1 vs. 800K Saturns, which is closer to a 2.5:1, not 8:1.

But by 1995, the sell-in rates of both were within spitting distance for lifetime numbers, which would suggest SEGA got the early benefit of more orders from retailers due to their console experience and early expectations for market performance against an unknown (in gaming as a platform holder) Sony. However, as retailers were watching the sold-through ratios, they ordered less Saturns and more PlayStations (or better to maybe say, gave their channel numbers to SEGA & Sony who in turn adjusted production amounts to match demand).

The truth is PS1 was already catching up to and matching Saturn in Japan before the FF VII demo released, with games like Resident Evil helping in that regard. Now yes, FF VII did help a LOT in boosting PS1's sales in Japan (as did other games like Dragon Quest VII), but in no way was Saturn "dominating" PS1 prior outside of the launch month which, again, had specific reasons why those numbers were the way they were. Hell, December 1994's numbers could've also been due to lack of stock on Sony's end; considering it was their first console they maybe didn't have initial launch stock ready or started production at large scale later than SEGA did.

Also worth considering is that for 1996 and maybe even 1995, Sony may've shifted some production of units for Japan towards markets like the US and Europe, to both capitalize on SEGA's early launch mistake of the Saturn, and in anticipation of the Nintendo 64 being a real contender in those territories. Comparatively, Japan was really the one market the Saturn was having real success in, so SEGA may've tried ensuring they had enough stock to keep competitive (and slightly ahead) of PS1 there for '95 and '96, building on the stock lead they had in December 1994.

As for the Nintendo stuff...well yes SEGA of Europe did get the MegaDrive to outsell the SNES in that gen, but it wasn't a "large" lead. The SNES did much better in Europe that gen than the NES did the prior one, so if anything it's arguable that SEGA lost market share to Nintendo that generation. Even so, they still were able to take it at the end of the day, it was just probably close the way way Saturn & PS1 were in Japan from '95/'96 close, to put it one way.

In any case there's thankfully way less doubt about MegaDrive's performance in Europe than there apparently is now in hindsight for America, given the leaked data we got late last year showing the unconsolidated accounting practices for Genesis by SEGA of America, and how much inventory of systems & games they were stuck with at the end of that gen not to mention, them intentionally flooding channels every Christmas with Genesis systems to keep in stock for big box stores that they could use in their fiscal reports (only to then buy back any unsold stock the following season).

 

[tmlDan]

You cannot vote for anything but the switch, we thought Nintendo was done for, out of the console industry as a whole kinda dead.

 

[Dexero]

Just look at the Switch reveal thread and the PS4 reveal thread

You’ll have your answer since almost everyone here was saying that it would be a total failure and sell less than the WiiU.

Sure GAF is always out of touch with reality but even then revisiting the thread from time to time is hilarious

 

[Team Andromeda]

It was 15 million.



I don't think this ever happened. Remember, SEGA relied a lot on reporting sell-in (to retailers), and that would usually get compared to Sony's sold-through (to customers). The only year it seems Saturn had a massive advantage install-base wise over the PS1 was late 1994, for the December in which both systems launched there. IIRC it was something like 300K PS1 vs. 800K Saturns, which is closer to a 2.5:1, not 8:1.

I'm on about SEGA Japan mate. And please don't bring up actual units sold. I remember when XBox fans used to use that against PS2 sales.
With SONY just reporting units shipped (remember them ) and also Xbox fans saying half of PS2 sales were just replacements for faulty units and the PS2 terrible DVD lens.


At the end of the day. All people remember is who wins..

 

[Codes 208]

Sony was already on a high at the end of gen 7, the ps4 just happened to continue succeeding off of the ps3 AND off of xbox’s early gen failings.

The switch however completely 180’d nintendo from their wii u doom and gloom days, going from 13m sales into the 100+m sales

the situation isnt even comparable.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I'm on about SEGA Japan mate. And please don't bring up actual units sold. I remember when XBox fans used to use that against PS2 sales.
With SONY just reporting units shipped (remember them ) and also Xbox fans saying half of PS2 sales were just replacements for faulty units and the PS2 terrible DVD lens.


At the end of the day. All people remember is who wins..

But I...was just focusing on SEGA of Japan . I don't see how the Xbox/PS2 stuff has anything to do with the Saturn/PS1 topic. Even said Sony provided shipped numbers too...they just also provided sold-through as well, but I don't recall SEGA doing similar with Saturn.

I mean if you want to say the Saturn was competitive with PS1 in Japan up to FF VII's release that's a 100% valid statement. The numbers do back that up.

But saying they were outselling PS1 8:1 just isn't true at all, again looking at the numbers.

 

[BlackTron]

The PS3 sold quite well. There's no comparison to the Wii I, which almost put Nintendo out of business.

There is no contest, Switch is the bigger comeback from the lowest lows of Wii U. It sold Dreamcast numbers (if that?)

But at no point was Nintendo anywhere close to going out of business. They could have just released nothing and skipped the gen and still been nowhere near it.

 

[Team Andromeda]

But I...was just focusing on SEGA of Japan . I don't see how the Xbox/PS2 stuff has anything to do with the Saturn/PS1 topic. Even said Sony provided shipped numbers too...they just also provided sold-through as well, but I don't recall SEGA doing similar with Saturn.

I mean if you want to say the Saturn was competitive with PS1 in Japan up to FF VII's release that's a 100% valid statement. The numbers do back that up.

But saying they were outselling PS1 8:1 just isn't true at all, again looking at the numbers.

By using SEGA America

In the PS2 days, SONY reported console shipped numbers, not sold. XBox fans used to point out the game to the hardware sale ratio too

But in the end, people only care about the winner. I seem to remember the Game Cube having the biggest launch in the UK out of all the consoles (at that point) That held up well didn't it