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VG tech : Immortals Fenix Rising PS5 vs XSX

Klayzer

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Nov 17, 2018
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Umm, no this is the true testing. It began when the consoles launched. When did cross-gen launch titles become invalid? That was never the case in previous generations.
They became invalid when the Series X wasn't the clear winner.

Rewind about two months ago, all the Xbox fandom was salivating at the prospect of laughing at the comparisons.

Now launch cross-gen tiles are invalid for .....reasons?
 

Hendrick's

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Jan 7, 2014
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why though>?

 

Paulxo87

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Oct 24, 2017
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why though>?
why though>?


There is just more Headroom in the XSX at the end of the day.

But the thing is i'm not even sure when 3rd party games will even begin to really take advantage of all this power. The investment alone in money and time is going to be huge. Plus it seems we are all shackled to previous gen anyway mostly for the next year.
 
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sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
Jul 3, 2019
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A local pond.

i am not understanding your point, we have been through this a hundred times, Mark Cerny took out standard pieces of rdna2 that he did not want and put his own customized version into it. His is a better solution than the standard rdna2 tool kit, that is why you are seeing the results now favoring the ps5 so much.

Those cache scrubbers, coherency cores, the unified cache is slaughtering Xbox atm. This is not going to change in the future and when Sony ssd starts coming into play, there is only one thing that is going to happen on the xbox side of things.

Xbox fan Moto---- Con me once shame on you, con me twice er shame on me?
 
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ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
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I believe the gap will increase when 3rd devs start to really use the PS5 hardware features.

You are seeing some teasers in first-party games but the real deal will be when 3rd parties started to do game focusing in next-gen features PS5 put on table.

For example you will see a great decrease in loadtimes in 3rd-parties instead only 1st-parties... more detailed with bigger scale worlds... etc etc etc.

Let’s see how it turns out... I predicted right the first batch of games will look and perform better in PS5... let’s see if I’m right about the second and third batch of games.
 
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Lysandros

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Jul 28, 2020
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How a 10.3 Tflops console can beat a 12 Tflops console with the same architecture ? Im lost... :messenger_face_screaming:
There are architectural differences like the number of CU's per shader array, cache scrubbers and GE. On the CPU side cache architectures are also likely different. Not to mention that all the components (rasterizer blocks, ROPS, caches etc.) of PS5's GPU run 22% faster. Thus PS5 can process significantly more triangles and push more pixels compared to XSX.
 

assurdum

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There is just more Headroom in the XSX at the end of the day.

But the thing is i'm not even sure when 3rd party games will even begin to really take advantage of all this power. The investment alone in money and time is going to be huge. Plus it seems we are all shackled to previous gen anyway mostly for the next year.
More headroom for what? I mean probably when CUs are more involved there is surely more headroom on series X for the improvement but you can't do everything with the CUs.
 
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Paulxo87

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Oct 24, 2017
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Another thing I have been thinking about.

I think the memory amount/speeds for both consoles are bottlenecks for both.

Sony seemed to realize this and thought outside the box and designed the ps5 into this super stream machine to try and overcome this. You could almost achieve a REYES style rendering in an sort of way as the unreal demo showed us.

I think the sony produced games a few years from now will really be something
 

Klayzer

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why are you deflecting, never answer a question with a question dude, come on.

The floor is yours, you wanted to put him on ignore, just tell us what he said wrong, tell us so know what signs to look out for.
Give him time. He has to Google search a quote from a developer to try prove his point. Patience :messenger_winking:
 
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Paulxo87

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More headroom for what? I mean probably when CUs are more involved there is surely more headroom on series X for the improvement but you can't do everything with the CUs.

In your average 3rd party game a few years from now that extra 2TFLOPS the xsx has could mean the diff between native and dynamic 4k in it's favor.

I expect sony first party titles to look better than anything out there though
 
Jan 29, 2019
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i don’t think that this is a factor right now - if it was, the gap would be bigger. I also think this requires some custom solutions that these launch games probably aren’t using.

the CU thing might have validity, if the current games aren’t using the Xbox CUs properly (and thus it looks like a slower 36CU GPU - massive simplification), but these engines should be flexible enough to handle it.
Wasn't scaling to CUs supposed to be easier than with clocks?

Obviously it uses all of them, otherwise the machine would not perform so well...
 
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sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
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A local pond.
Those look really nice

I AM CONFUSED, are you not answering my question? you made a statement and i am kinda waiting for you to reply.

If you were just shit talking then just say it so we can move on.
 
Feb 15, 2013
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I must say I watched another playthrough and in parts this game looks sublime. Kudos to the devs for knocking it out the park despite a smaller budget.
 
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DJ12

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Stilton Disco

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There is just more Headroom in the XSX at the end of the day.

But the thing is i'm not even sure when 3rd party games will even begin to really take advantage of all this power. The investment alone in money and time is going to be huge. Plus it seems we are all shackled to previous gen anyway mostly for the next year.
Maybe, but it's increasingly looking to not be the case, the more we learn about rhe two pieces of hardware, and what the differences actually mean.

Plus XSX has the additional problem.of split development resources between both PC and XSS requirements.

Unless MS drop the need for every game to also release on the MS Store and a much weaker console, then it will always be more demanding to develop for with less pay off at the end to optimise the XSX version over the PS5.

Not that I think that's th email issue, just something im addition to bear in mind with Xbox's stratergy this generation not being focused on the quality of the games, but instead on getting as much revenue in from their services as possible.

The head of MS even said they want to cater to all 3 billion gamers worldwide, that that was their goal and focus, and most likely at least 2 billion, 950 million of them won't care about whether the XSX plays games better than the PS5.

Really though,the main thing we should all bear in mind is that we are seeing all the actual evidence pointing to what numerous experts having been saying for months was actually correct, and that tflop counts do not actually tell an accurate story when it comes to performance potential, and the much more esoteric design choices made for the PS5 over raw GPU grunt was actually a really good idea that is going to make it an incredibly capable machine, at least on a par with the XSX, which is good, because they cost the same.

That doesn't make the XSX bad, it's not, it's an amazingly powerful machine, it's just very much a PC in a box, and that safe, traditional design approach has known problems, hence why consoles out performing gaming PC'S, and why the PS5 was designed to eliminate them.
 
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Klayzer

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I AM CONFUSED, are you not answering my question? you made a statement and i am kinda waiting for you to reply.

If you were just shit talking then just say it so we can move on.
IKR. The suspense is killing me. He will probably just opt for the ignore button rather than answer, to save face. Modiss operendi for his type of ilk.
 
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sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
Jul 3, 2019
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A local pond.
IKR. The suspense is killing me. He will probably just opt for the ignore button rather than answer, to save face. Modiss operendi for his type of ilk.

i might take a break for a while and come back a bit later, hopefully, he would have googled something.
 

Superayate

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Nov 24, 2020
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So nothing wrong with the GDK and DX12 api tools on PC then. So its hardware ?

I have watched some others videos with this game running on 5700xt 1440p and vert high settings. Seems that the game never goes under 60fps, so it 's surprising to see the series X going to 1080p to keep the 60fps.
 
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assurdum

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I have watch some videos with this game running on 5700xt 1440p and vert high settings. Seems that the game never goes under 60fps, so it 's surprising to see the series X going to 1080p to keep the 60fps.
Such drops in res it's very rare. And again something something smell of bandwidth splitted bottlenecks. Probably it drops the res just when the GPU crossed the CPU bandwidth usage (just a guess)
 
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Kimahri

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Jul 27, 2020
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Honestly, I’m a passive observer as I don’t own either console.

But it’s certainly very interesting that the console that seemingly is just flat out more capable on paper regularly seems to be coming out as the worse performer on these initial comparisons.

As a video game fan with enough interest to join a forum, surely you can appreciate why this is of note to folk like us.

Maybe I would have 15 years ago, but I don't care whether a game has two frames more or ten pixels less.

In any case, it's far too early to tell. Xbox could close the gap and surpass, or PlayStation could increase the gap. We'll see. But I own both, so irrelevant to me.

Man, this excuse from the Xbox One generation will never go away for team Xbox.

I own every console. I don't reduce my hobby to silly console warfare.
 
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isual

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getting it on xbox 4. though, it released today, not sure why amazon is delivering it on the 10th? its not a big game per say, so logistically odd.
 

TJC

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I'm surprised with how many people on twitter and in the mainstream really bought into this MS power narrative. One of the guys on IGN beyond bought the series X for his third party's and can't understand why it's not better as the numbers don't add up.

MS marketing definitely worked on alot of people who don't look at the details lol. As soon as Mark Cerny had that talk I had a feeling we would be seeing some results like this, maybe not the PS5 being better alot of the time but at least PARITY.

Developers been telling us for month's that there is nothing in it between the two but still people believed Xbox would be THAT much better, now it seems PS5 early advantage in majority of games is such a big surprise.. hmm.
 

Unknown?

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How a 10.3 Tflops console can beat a 12 Tflops console with the same architecture ? Im lost... :messenger_face_screaming:
Well the same way a 32 bit PlayStation can beat a 64 bit Jaguar or how a Snes is more powerful than Genesis despite not having blast processing.
 

asustitan

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Dec 19, 2019
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Well the same way a 32 bit PlayStation can beat a 64 bit Jaguar or how a Snes is more powerful than Genesis despite not having blast processing.

If I remember Jaguar wasn't a full 64bit console, the main chips were 32bit.
 

onQ123

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May 1, 2010
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You're going to see many 3rd party titles on top for PS5 for a while due to the PS5's efficiency and speed approach. In a few years though once 3rd party games actually begin to push next gen hardware the XSX will have the advantage I believe in resolution/frame rate.

However - I think sony first party games once actually utilizing the hardware years from now will visually be beyond anything on the xsx.

I think it will go the other way because PS5 will be able to handle games that need to stream in data better than Xbox Series X
 

onQ123

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I have to agree here. Games will get more demanding as the gen goes on so the faster data streaming will play a huge role in future titles.

That's the part that team "wait for our tools" don't seem to understand PS5 is the console that was built more towards the new generation while Xbox Series X was built around enhancing games in a generationless world.
 

papeipa

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Nov 21, 2020
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After that analysis, I don't believe anything those "experts say" . I don't know how xbox sx runs but I wasted 70 euros on ps5 version. It is literally unplayable in performance mode, maybe a bug or shit, stuttering like crazy.....
 

Hezekiah

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Jul 16, 2020
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The io may be playing a part as are many other elements, although it's not being fully utilised.

Contrary to popular belief that ssd and io hardware can improve performance.

For eg, with faster ssd and io you will need less assets etc stored in the ram, to only be potentially used.

Like lets say in spiderman you need to store only what you see, where on a slower io system you need to store thr next block also as it won't load fast enough otherwise when the player goes there and you could go left right back or forward.

So keeping more in memory is obviously not optimal.

Ps5 only needs to store the next 1 second of gameplay in memory, give or take.



This means more ram for whats on screen or in active use, which probably means higher asset quality etc. This may explain some of what were seeing or it may not even come into play much yet in these early titles, but it will.

I think its not one thing but multiple, incremental gains all over adding up to a big leap over what traditional paper specs 'should' perform like.

So we have the ssd and io tech, all those bottlenecks eliminated so less waiting, better cu utilisation thanks to things like cache scrubbers, no more flushing the caches which hurts performance Sony evict only select adress ranges meaning better utilisation.

Also faster gpu in all the areas clocks affect, faster caches and probably better caching aka unified.

Probably miss something here but the combination of all these improvements should be making the bigger gains were seeing.

There's also less on the cpu where xbox has to process the io on a cpu core, PS5 is completely free of it thanks to the io tech. Again, only probably a relatively small gain but they add up.

Tye tempest engine being used for physics due it its spu like design is apparently being used in small amounts.

The whole system is about reducing latency and all about speed.

Its ram bandwidth isn't split either, which may be a bottleneck, especially when games start using more than 10gb.

Add into that being easy to develop for and Cerny said its easier to fully use 36 CUs than 48 (in his example that definitely wasn't comparing similarly to xbox design of 52 cu....) when triangles are small ots harder to fill them all with meaningful work.

I think they system has rewritten the rules somewhat and a lot of us knew this from they way Sony eliminated bottlenecks with the io hardware, that was an achievement that isn't easy at all.
What I read on Reddit about cache scrubbers:

If you’re a CU, you work with tiny nibbles of data at a time. You have your registers right with you at your desk that can only hold a page or so of information. You have your cache with you in a filing cabinet near your desk that can hold all the information you need for the specific job you’re currently on. You have your system memory in the building next door. You have your SSD storage a bus ride to the next city.

If what you need isn’t at your desk you stop your work to walk to your filing cabinet and get it. If it’s not there you stop working to walk to the building next door to get a load of stuff to refill your filing cabinet. If it’s not next door you stop working to buy a bus ticket to get enough to fill the building next door with everything you’ll need.

If something in the building next door gets updated then the copy you have in your filing cabinet is out of date. Without cache scrubbers you throw the entire filing cabinet out—even if the bit that’s now out of date isn’t something you need any more—and you stop working to walk next door and get a fresh load of documents to refill your filing cabinet. With cache scrubbers someone comes in and just yoinks out the out of date document and lets you carry on working.

These little trips to the filing cabinet/building next door is why teraflops are theoretical maximums, as they are calculated without any need to go and get data, but with a synthetic kind of job where you’re just asked to keep adding +1 to a number.
 

Exanthus

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Is the split memory bandwidth the issue with the X?
Can anyone point me onto anything that I can read about it?
 

kyoji

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They became invalid when the Series X wasn't the clear winner.

Rewind about two months ago, all the Xbox fandom was salivating at the prospect of laughing at the comparisons.

Now launch cross-gen tiles are invalid for .....reasons?
☝️
 
Jan 29, 2019
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Rewind about two months ago, all the Xbox fandom was salivating at the prospect of laughing at the comparisons.
No no, I'm sure they were telling us that the first wave of game would perform better on the PS5 because reasons, but then over time we would see the series X train like Rocky Balboa and come back in a last minute upset to win the generation's performance belt!



EDIT: Crap some people actually think that!
You're going to see many 3rd party titles on top for PS5 for a while due to the PS5's efficiency and speed approach. In a few years though once 3rd party games actually begin to push next gen hardware the XSX will have the advantage I believe in resolution/frame rate.
When will we be able to say, OK now we have seen the same story enough, this is true the PS5 performs better in the end?

Seriously, we kind of need to know, how long does it take to make these tools more mature and robust?

Let's home these 20 studios deliver.
 
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PlayerPurple

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Jun 2, 2020
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I've been holding off on playing more BotW so I could play it at 60fps via Cemu.

Now, because of this game, I won't have to.