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VG tech : Immortals Fenix Rising PS5 vs XSX

May 8, 2020
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People seemed to know how it was gonna play out before the consoles even launched.

But now it is too early. Got it!

Indeed eh? Microsoft knew how it was going to play out the second they went through their marketing materials in print to rephrase their pitch to "The most powerful Xbox ever" "Our most powerful Xbox" . MS got devs with PS5 dev kits now - and a multitude of ways of getting intel on the competition. MS knows damn well. Just like the tools narrative... somehow one of the best software companies in the world with hundreds and hundreds of programmers, releasing hardware in 2020, isn't going to have the best tooling possible at the most crucial moment of the console, its launch? Like... everyone at MS, all those bright engineers and minds suddenly become incompetent and unaware of the situation.... all of that in order to fit a fanboy narrative and PR narrative to downplay their marketing BS prior to launch. Now "press" personalities that parroted MS marketing verbatim without a single ounce of skepticism play along with the new narrative to downplay the fact. Ohh and lets ignore devs who say they're happy with the "tools™". GTFO.
 
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Superayate

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Nov 24, 2020
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it makes no sense whatsoever lol.

that said ps5 dropping down to 1280p is pretty shit too. This kind of average looking game should run at 4k 60 fps locked. do we know how the 2070 and 2080 cards perform in this game? I want to know if the PS5 is outperforming the 9 tflops 2070 or 10.5 tflops 2070 super before im too impressed. Right now, it seems like the xsx is severely underperforming.

i would love to see where the bottleneck is on the xsx because the 560 gbps vram is higher than the 5700xt vram of 448 gbps and zen 2 CPUs perform really well despite having a non unified L3 cache that we are assuming is whats giving the ps5 this advantage.


(Sound cut on my side so I don't know if there is some commentaries during the videos)

Example of gameplay with 5700 XT (Zen 6 cores only :( ):

Benchmark with the 2070 super and a Ryzen 2 (6 cores also):
 
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JackMcGunns

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Its running the game with slightly worse performance(fps) and upto 30% lower resolution compared to ps5.


XSX is also running the game with better shadows. With PS5 running with lower quality shadows whether intentional or because of a bug will lead to better performance, naturally, you don't call a win based on a bug that's actually affecting the quality of your game, in fact the reality is that both games are practically the same with no discernable issues to the gamer, except for stuttering, now THAT is annoying and more concerning than a few pixels you can't even see unless under a microscope and probably due to running the game with better shadows. Saying XSX can't catch a break based on these results is disingenuous.
 
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Agnostic2020

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XSX is also running the game with better shadows. With PS5 running with lower quality shadows whether intentional or because of a bug will lead to better performance, naturally, you don't call a win based on a bug that's actually affecting the quality of your game, in fact the reality is that both games are practically the same with no discernable issues to the gamer, except for stuttering, now THAT is annoying and more concerning than a few pixels you can't even see unless under a microscope and probably due to running the game with better shadows. Saying XSX can't catch a break based on these results is disingenuous.
In performance mode ps5 shadow is perfect as mentioned by vgtech only in quality mode its bugged. So won't affect the performance. No xsx is producing 30% lower pixel per frame. Whether we see it or not is not the point .
 
Feb 15, 2013
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Thinking about why PS5 offers more performance than XsX, which conned everyone for months with teraflops marketing; I think the strongly rumoured unified CPU cache, and generally faster L2 and other caches + cache scrubbers are helping it pull ahead.

I don't think the 'secret sauce' Geometry Engine has even be really touched with games like these or indeed any of the launch multiplats. Devs have likely let that feature 'run on auto' without digging into it on a low level.
 

thelastword

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So the most powerful console wins again. Better framerates, higher resolutions and in many cases better effects..... And to think that the PS5 tools, it's geometry engine and cache scrubbers are not even being utilized yet, what you see here is just the higher fill rate, higher clocks, one pool of memory and the faster interconnect between cpu, gpu and memory at play. When devs start to use the IO as cached ram, the sound SPU for extra processing cycles and the cache scrubbers for extra efficiency and speed the gap will stretch even more.
 

Zefah

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(Sound cut on my side so I don't know if there is some commentaries during the videos)

Example of gameplay with 5700 XT (Zen 6 cores only :( ):

Benchmark with the 2070 super and a Ryzen 2 (6 cores also):

Looks like PS5 might be the way to go for me until I can build out a new PC later this year. I'm running a Ryzen 3900x and Radeon Vega 64 build right now.
 

Aceofspades

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Well at this point, wonder if someone can systematically explain why PS5 outperforms XSX despite having a lower computation power?

Smartly designed, balanced, non-bottlenecked architecture. That's it.

Add to that blazing fast SSD for faster object streaming and lots of custom hardware to offload lots of CPU/GPU resources.
 
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SlimySnake

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I wanted to "empathy" react some posts there but I decided not to... Class act from me 🤵🤣
that has to be the saddest thread on this forum. What an embarrassment especially now that the xsx is getting outperformed.

Console warring is stupid and I hope people learn from this. Dont fall for PR. Dont gloat. Dont make dumb threads like that. Jesus Christ. Every post in there is embarrassing.
 

KungFucius

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Yeah, that's not really my point. I just thought XSX would prevail in all multiplats, still baffled by it.
Why? Ubisoft would likely target PS5 then port to XSX. Clearly the PS5 is more popular. It could be overall platform software too. I wouldn't be surprised if in later Games MS provides some assistance to win these pissing contests.
 

sircaw

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A local pond.
So the most powerful console wins again. Better framerates, higher resolutions and in many cases better effects..... And to think that the PS5 tools, it's geometry engine and cache scrubbers are not even being utilized yet, what you see here is just the higher fill rate, higher clocks, one pool of memory and the faster interconnect between cpu, gpu and memory at play. When devs start to use the IO as cached ram, the sound SPU for extra processing cycles and the cache scrubbers for extra efficiency and speed the gap will stretch even more.

I really hope xbox gets their ducks in a row for cyber punk, because this beat down is getting ridiculous now.

I don't remember ever feeling this sad, perhaps when i was a child after watching Mr Percival die.
 
Feb 15, 2013
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Just google it. MS constantly said this. They did active advertising with this claim, but changed it a few days or weeks ago, when they recognized that the XSX is constantly getting outperformed by the PS5.

They're protecting themselves from a lawsuit. 'Most powerful console' could have been changed to 'highest console *specs (teraflops)' and no-one would dispute that :messenger_grinning_smiling:
 

thelastword

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These are cross gen launch titles and aren’t pushing either system. This is nothing.

The true testing will start late next year when the first next gen only games start dropping.
So Xbox is struggling now with cross generation titles, but will do better when more complex graphical games come, sound logic right there.

If you need to know, this is where PS5 will stretch the gap, in ground up next gen games, the system was especially designed for just that... Higher IO quality, better GPU clocks, faster caches, better controller, better sound hardware, better hardware efficiencies....
 

DJ12

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Well at this point, wonder if someone can systematically explain why PS5 outperforms XSX despite having a lower computation power?
Cerny has already given the answer:



Mark Cerny said:
Another set of issues for the GPU involved size and frequency.

How big do we make the GPU and what frequency do we run it that.

At this is a balancing act the chip has a cost and there's a cost for whatever we use to supply that chip with power and to cool it.

In general I like running the GPU at a higher frequency. Let me show you why.

Here's two possible configurations for a GPU roughly of the level of the PlayStation 4 Pro. This is a thought experiment don't take these configurations too seriously.

If you just calculate teraflops you get the same number, but actually the performance is noticeably different because teraflops is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU.

That's just one part of the GPU there are a lot of other units and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher at 33% higher frequency rasterization goes 33% faster processing the command buffer goes that much faster the 2 and other caches have that much higher bandwidth and so on.

About the only downside is that system memory is 33% further away in terms of cycles. But the large number of benefits more than counterbalanced that.
To summarise, flops don't mean shiz.

Case in point: Radeon 7 14.2 tflops, nvidia 2080 10.07. Which would you sooner own?



Tflops are more relevant with xbox and PS5, as they are the same technology, but nvidia prove daily that flops are meaningless as a measure of gaming performance.
 

Md Ray

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Well at this point, wonder if someone can systematically explain why PS5 outperforms XSX despite having a lower computation power?
No one can do that. Eventually we will learn the truth, but it won't be for some time.
How a 10.3 Tflops console can beat a 12 Tflops console with the same architecture ? Im lost... :messenger_face_screaming:
XSX GPU is weaker than PS5 GPU in pixel fillrate, triangle rasterization/culling. That's why.
 

Hendrick's

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Cerny has already given the answer:




To summarise, flops don't mean shiz.

Case in point: Radeon 7 14.2 tflops, nvidia 2080 10.07. Which would you sooner own?



Tflops are more relevant with xbox and PS5, as they are the same technology, but nvidia prove daily that flops are meaningless as a measure of gaming performance.
How much of that comes down to better drivers?
 
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DJ12

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How much of that comes down to better drivers?
Very little I guess, both teams (nvidia and AMD) will maximise performance for their hardware through the drivers, I know people like to say AMD drivers are garbage, but this seems mainly around the UI. It would be neigh on impossible for someone to figure out performance is being left on the table due to a poorly written driver unless they wrote their own driver that performed much better.

in addition, AMD aren't doing too badly on the performance front at the moment, so I doubt the driver was anything to do with the performance deficit shown above.
 
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Hendrick's

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Very little I guess, both teams will maximise performance for their hardware through the drivers, I know people like to say AMD drivers are garbage, but this seems mainly around the UI. It would be neigh on impossible for someone to figure out performance is being left on the table due to a poorly written driver unless they wrote their own driver that performed much better
Nah, Nvidia definitely have better drivers if for no other reason than most developers prioritizing them Maybe things have changed, but the number one reason I stopped buying AMD cards was due to drivers.
 

DJ12

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Nah, Nvidia definitely have better drivers if for no other reason than most developers prioritizing them Maybe things have changed, but the number one reason I stopped buying AMD cards was due to drivers.
nVidia paid people to develop on them, hence the forced logos. And drivers if you include the entire package without a doubt, but that's not what I was alluding too. I doubt the actual driver, as in the interface between the hardware and OS, for AMD was not hitting the hardware as hard as possible which I guess is what you were implying.

The performance deficit is down to the physical hardware.
 

Leyasu

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So Xbox is struggling now with cross generation titles, but will do better when more complex graphical games come, sound logic right there.

If you need to know, this is where PS5 will stretch the gap, in ground up next gen games, the system was especially designed for just that... Higher IO quality, better GPU clocks, faster caches, better controller, better sound hardware, better hardware efficiencies....
Lol wrote like a fanboys wildest wet dream. The chance to read your nonsense, is the reason why I haven’t put you on ignore yet
 
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NinjaBoiX

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Who cares? I'm not sitting a meter from the screen in anticipation of possible resolution drops. It's nothing, no one will notice. All is okay.
Honestly, I’m a passive observer as I don’t own either console.

But it’s certainly very interesting that the console that seemingly is just flat out more capable on paper regularly seems to be coming out as the worse performer on these initial comparisons.

As a video game fan with enough interest to join a forum, surely you can appreciate why this is of note to folk like us.
 

Hendrick's

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nVidia paid people to develop on them, hence the forced logos. And drivers if you include the entire package without a doubt, but that's not what I was alluding too. I doubt the actual driver, as in the interface between the hardware and OS, for AMD was not hitting the hardware as hard as possible which I guess is what you were implying.

The performance deficit is down to the physical hardware.
Not saying you are wrong in this case, but I have definitely seen games go from running like garbage to butter with a driver update, so they certainly can have huge impact on performance.
 

jm89

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So why did MS go so hard with the most powerfull console marketing if they knew the tools were so behind?

Also what's phil spencers address? Found some tools lying around that i don't need anymore, maybe it can help the brother out.
 

DJ12

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Not saying you are wrong in this case, but I have definitely seen games go from running like garbage to butter with a driver update, so they certainly can have huge impact on performance.
but thats the same for everything and is why with virtually every big release theres always a driver update (they rarely improve performance in general, but provide boosts for the specific games they contain fixes for). On consoles, this is not as important, as the games are written to perform on specific, fixed, hardware.
 
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MarkMe2525

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Nooooooooooooooo!!!!! j/k This game was totally off of my radar. I'm excited to play it after watching a few previews.
 

geordiemp

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(Sound cut on my side so I don't know if there is some commentaries during the videos)

Example of gameplay with 5700 XT (Zen 6 cores only :( ):

Benchmark with the 2070 super and a Ryzen 2 (6 cores also):

So nothing wrong with the GDK and DX12 api tools on PC then. So its hardware ?
 
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Paulxo87

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You're going to see many 3rd party titles on top for PS5 for a while due to the PS5's efficiency and speed approach. In a few years though once 3rd party games actually begin to push next gen hardware the XSX will have the advantage I believe in resolution/frame rate.

However - I think sony first party games once actually utilizing the hardware years from now will visually be beyond anything on the xsx.
 
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sircaw

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You're going to see many 3rd party titles on top for PS5 for a while. In a few years though once 3rd party games actually begin to push next gen hardware the XSX will have the advantage I believe.

why though>?