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[Mister Wolf]

But, but starfield runs at 30FPS on the Xbox!

FF16 runs at 30-40FPS on PS5
Avatar game will be 30FPS
Star wars outlaw will be 30FPS
Every "next gen" game will be 30FPS on both consoles.

But, but I need to make fun of bethesda!

These dudes got spoiled by those old looking last gen games being 60. $500 gets them 30fps this gen, just like it got them 30fps last gen, and the gen before that.

 

[Iced Arcade]

Not surprised with a game this scale on consoles. Always disappointed when a game isn't 60fps though.

 

[sachos]

Seems to be heavely CPU limited, wonder why not even do an unlocked VRR mode for those who can and as future proof for the Series X 2.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Seems to be heavely CPU limited, wonder why not even do an unlocked VRR mode for those who can and as future proof for the Series X 2.

They definitely should provide an unlocked framerate mode.

 

[mansoor1980]

 

[genesisblock]

I'd rather play a good game at 30FPS than a mediocre one at 60FPS, nobody's disputing that 60FPS is better than 30FPS, but to avoid playing a game because it's 30FPS is completely idiotic. I play video games, not framerate or resolution. Being mad that a game won't achieve your expectations for framerate is fine, making it your primary purchasing decision is bizarre. Also if I'm out of touch with the "changing demand", why are so many devs staying at 30 and pushing graphics, world size, and things like AI/physics instead of focusing on framerate? Whenever I have the choice I pick performance mode over quality mode so this isn't some spiel about framerate not mattering, just that it doesn't matter enough to avoid playing a game that looks fun.

False equivalence, mate. 60fps is a resource issue not a game design one. You act as this is happening right now when it only happens in your own imagination when we have a PC than can play those games in 60fps and higher. Your argument only holds water if no alternative is found. It's why emulators for Nintendo consoles are so highly valued if 30fps was a legitimate option.


And yes, it is a completely valid reason to dismiss a game because it affects the user experience - the essence of what all video games should strive for. Just because you have a high tolerance for it is not the representation of all experiences for everyone.

Seeing how you claim 30fps will advance all those features you claim when what we've seen is the exact opposite. We have not seen good AI in games since F.E.A.R. a game 3 generations back. As for physics, the only game that uses this as a gameplay mechanic are simulator racing games that run at... Wait for it.. 60fps! Even flight simulator has a performance mode.

Once upon a time, targeting 30fps can mean the difference between a linear and open world game. Now it's can be a choice between performance and quality settings, a massive change since the PS3 era.

Like polygons, 30fps will see diminishing returns once DLSS and VRR advances in lowering the requirement gap and will go the way of the dinosaur. There's a reason why VR requires it, and it's the most demanding of all the game design requirements out there.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I just think people are a bit insane about expecting next-gen only games to have a 60fps mode. It was easy when the PS4/Xbox One were the main hardware and the games were running on next-gen consoles.

It won't work like that anymore. Most next-gen only games will be @ 30fps.

It's a choice isn't it, not a technical impossibility as we have seen, H:FW looks absolutely phenomenal and is open-world, yet has a 60fps mode. Granted GG are tech wizards, but every game doesn't need the visual quality of H:FW.

 

[dotnotbot]

Exactly, and maybe I wasn't clear enough. He is clearly referring to the console output signal. He even refers to it directly when he mentions "standard output" and supporting up to 120hz. No one talks about device outputs when referring to a games internal fps.

When I said it was not wise to be talking about the output signal, I meant it was not wise in relation to the question asked. Frankly it doesn't answer the question and he is just deflecting.

This is similar to when a question was asked to a MS exec (I believe) about the resolution of games on XB1, the exec. responded that all games will eventually be outputting at 1080p to the television. In this case, just like Greenberg's response, he didn't actually answer the question but referred to the output signal of the Xbox.

Edit: Greenberg being an idiot, does not equate to him making some sort of promise that series X games would all be at least 60fps. He is speaking to something completely different.

He's talking about the output. It's technical. Each developer picks its fights and make the games as best as they can be.

Would be technical if he said 60/120 Hz, not FPS. Output signal is in Hz.

 

[Negotiator101]

It's a choice isn't it, not a technical impossibility as we have seen, H:FW looks absolutely phenomenal and is open-world, yet has a 60fps mode. Granted GG are tech wizards, but every game doesn't need the visual quality of H:FW.

We know Starfield is a completely different animal to Forbidden West. Apart from being open world that's where the comparison ends. It's like comparing Saints Row to GTA. Ones a shallow toddler pool the others an ocean.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Would be technical if he said 60/120 Hz, not FPS. Output signal is in Hz.

Correct, but again... Greenberg is an idiot.

 

[DragonNCM]

The most POWERFUL console in the world, and its cant do 60, tisk tisk

I don't know what you people are expecting from 500$ 3 year old console & hardware technology more then 4 years old. If you wana play 4k/60 fps with all bells & whistles better prepare 2k$ and you will be happy.

 

[R6Rider]

I don't know what you people are expecting from 500$ 3 year old console & hardware technology more then 4 years old. If you wana play 4k/60 fps with all bells & whistles better prepare 2k$ and you will be happy.

No one is saying it has to be 4k60 with all the fancy graphical settings.

Strawman arguments aren't going to cut it.

 

[FlyyGOD]

Did they announce the minimum pc spec requirements yet?

 

[Razvedka]

These dudes got spoiled by those old looking last gen games being 60. $500 gets them 30fps this gen, just like it got them 30fps last gen, and the gen before that.

Yes, and there were many posters here who were saying this very same thing for some time now.

 

[R6Rider]

Did they announce the minimum pc spec requirements yet?

This is what they currently are, but will probably change:

Starfield PC system requirements​

Minimum specs​

• OS: Windows 10 version 22H2 (10.0.19045)
• Processor: AMD Ryzen 5 2600X, Intel Core i7-6800K
• Memory: 16 GB RAM
• Graphics: AMD Radeon RX 5700, NVIDIA GeForce 1070 Ti
• DirectX: Version 12
• Network: Broadband Internet connection
• Storage: 125 GB available space
• Additional Notes: SSD Required

Recommended specs​

• OS: Windows 10/11 with updates
• Processor: AMD Ryzen 5 3600X, Intel i5-10600K
• Memory: 16 GB RAM
• Graphics: AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080
• DirectX: Version 12
• Network: Broadband Internet connection
• Storage: 125 GB available space
• Additional Notes: SSD Required

 

[FlyyGOD]

FWIW Sony have delivered on 40, 60 and even 120 FPS options in most of their 1P AAA games this gen as options. Spiderman 2 will be the same in that regard.

I feel Starfield should at least provide an option for 40 FPS, if not 60. There's no real reason why it has to only have a 30 FPS option unless, as I've been thinking, Series S may be a factor.



This is definitely one way to cope I guess.



Yeah there has to be an option at least for Series X.

But I think they are going with 30 because that's the easiest solution for Series S without adding a lot to technical optimizations. So they use the extra headroom on the X for higher native resolution.

You're comparing Sony's cross gen games that run on ps4 to a fully next gen only title?

 

[Otre]

Sure, it "gets better". But that doesn't mean that 30fps is bad. It isn't.

It just acceptable, a "playable" state. Its the poverty line. Its the, "Well, I cant afford or have the mind to have something better so im stuck here now." followed by a inhale of copium. A 30fps game always has the stink of wasted potential for a 60fps standard. Higher FPS are even better, but more of a luxury.

 

[Boss Mog]

I would say the environments and lighting absolutely look better in Starfield than the console versions of Cyberpunk..

As a whole, visually speaking, Cyberpunk is far beyond Starfield and runs at a solid 60fps and the 30fps mode at least has some raytracing in it.

These are PS5 shots but the XSX version looks the same so if 3rd party devs manage to make games that look like this and run at 60fps then 1st party should at least be able to match it.

 

[Mister Wolf]

As a whole, visually speaking, Cyberpunk is far beyond Starfield and runs at a solid 60fps and the 30fps mode at least has some raytracing in it.

These are PS5 shots but the XSX version looks the same so if 3rd party devs manage to make games that look like this and run at 60fps then 1st party should at least be able to match it.

Easy to look cool at night. The comparison I want to see between the two games is during the daytime in areas meant to be lit indirectly by the the sun. Thats where the lighting really matters and the reason raytraced GI is considered such a big deal.

 

[Fatal Chuck Yeager]

They can cancel the 30fps on the S and move that extra 30 to the X for 60fps. S players can play the visual novel version.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

As a whole, visually speaking, Cyberpunk is far beyond Starfield and runs at a solid 60fps and the 30fps mode at least has some raytracing in it.

These are PS5 shots but the XSX version looks the same so if 3rd party devs manage to make games that look like this and run at 60fps then 1st party should at least be able to match it.

I have close to 300 hour in Cyberpunk on PC. It's one of the most static open world games out there. Not really worthy comparing it to Starfield

 

[Boss Mog]

Easy to look cool at night. The comparison I want to see between the two games is during the daytime in areas meant to be lit indirectly by the the sun. Thats where the lighting really matters and the reason raytraced GI is considered such a big deal.

But Starfield is big empty planets mostly, I doubt any planet has a city the size of Night City, it looks to be all small outposts. And it doesn't really matter how nice the lighting is if the second you pan the camera horizontally at 30fps it becomes a big blurry mess.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Why not 1440p and 60fps

 

[Boss Mog]

I have close to 300 hour in Cyberpunk on PC. It's one of the most static open world games out there. Not really worthy comparing it to Starfield

It's still nicer to look at, plays better and runs smoother.

Now I get that Starfield has a lot of other systems going on and those are really cool but the game's weak points are the framerate which doesn't even seem to be a stable 30fps in the footage shown and the combat which seems very similar to previous Bethesda games, which is to say pretty weak.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

It's still nicer to look at, plays better and runs smoother.

Now I get that Starfield has a lot of other systems going on and those are really cool but the game's weak points are the framerate which doesn't even seem to be a stable 30fps in the footage shown and the combat which seems very similar to previous Bethesda games, which is to say pretty weak.

That all depends what it is you're looking for. If by 'plays better' you mean the shooting mechanics, why not just stick to Doom 2016? I want an RPG and from what I've seen Starfield will offer a much better RPG experience.

I also much prefer deep interactivity, world simulation and player freedom offered by a typical Bethesda game than an eye candy visuals of Cyberpunk.

And if you're saying that the combat is similar to previous Bethesda games, you clearly haven't played a Bethesda game recently. Starfield looks eons better in that department.

 

[welshrat]

Well I sold my Series X last week. Sticking to PS5 and PC. Seems like it was a wise move.

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

You're comparing Sony's cross gen games that run on ps4 to a fully next gen only title?

Excuse me rachet and clank would like a word with you slut

 

[DForce]

But, but starfield runs at 30FPS on the Xbox!

FF16 runs at 30-40FPS on PS5
Avatar game will be 30FPS
Star wars outlaws will be 30FPS
Every "next gen" game will be 30FPS on both consoles.

But, but I need to make fun of bethesda!

This is why people are calling out Starfield.



Xbox fanbase laughed when they thought Ratchet & Clank and Horizon Forbidden West were going to be 30fps.


Now everything is ok and I'm seeing a lot of damage controlling all over Twitter.

 

[FlyyGOD]

Excuse me rachet and clank would like a word with you slut

I'm sure the Series s could run Ratchet and Clank at 60 fps too. It's not pushing the envelope.

 

[Mister Wolf]

I'm sure the Series s could run Ratchet and Clank at 60 fps too. It's not pushing the envelope.

We are going to see the full extent of it not really pushing the envelope once that PC port drops.

 

[fatmarco]

Cyberpunk has very little simulation though. It's not like any of the NPC's on the street go home, go to bed (or even have homes or beds to go to), wake up, have their own daily patterns. They're just set dressing, as they were in the Witcher 3.

I mean the game couldn't handle the same basic car traffic simulation that we've had in open world games since PS2.

Having said that I still really like Cyberpunk, but it's apples and oranges. Starfield is a lot more ambitious, has many, many layers of simulation that it's not even a justifiable comparison.

 

[Pop]

Todd boy doesn't want a performance mode at 1440p or 1080p/60 because even at that resolution they can't get a stable framerate. So cap it at 30 fps, were there will still be dips into the low 20s

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

This is why people are calling out Starfield.



Xbox fanbase laughed when they thought Ratchet & Clank and Horizon Forbidden West were going to be 30fps.


Now everything is ok and I'm seeing a lot of damage controlling all over Twitter.

Ouch, that aged poorly.

 

[Balducci30]

This is why people are calling out Starfield.



Xbox fanbase laughed when they thought Ratchet & Clank and Horizon Forbidden West were going to be 30fps.


Now everything is ok and I'm seeing a lot of damage controlling all over Twitter.

Who is the “Xbox fanbase” this one guy? Who cares what a bunch of Twitter trolls and warriors think - I’m realizing more and more this conversation is clearly a console warrior thing for the most part and has no actual meaning.

Both consoles will be putting out 30 FPS games as they age if they want to push beyond what we’ve seen already to any large degree - and they should be allowed to without people jumping down their throats. If naughty dogs single player game is 30 FPS I’m not gonna give a shit. Hell I play most games at 30 FPS anyway at this point, A 500 piece of hardware meant to last a decade should not be held to a 60 Fps standard imo.

However games like redfall have no excuse to not be 60.

 

[DForce]

Who is the “Xbox fanbase” this one guy? Who cares what a bunch of Twitter trolls and warriors think - I’m realizing more and more this conversation is clearly a console warrior thing for the most part and has no actual meaning.

Both consoles will be putting out 30 FPS games as they age if they want to push beyond what we’ve seen already to any large degree - and they should be allowed to without people jumping down their throats. If naughty dogs single player game is 30 FPS I’m not gonna give a shit. Hell I play most games at 30 FPS anyway at this point, A 500 piece of hardware meant to last a decade should not be held to a 60 Fps standard imo.

However games like redfall have no excuse to not be 60.

These so-called twitter trolls and warrior talk make it this way on the forum, so there's no way around it if you're talking about games on social media.

The point is, people love to point out hypocrisy and there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[Helghan]

This is why people are calling out Starfield.



Xbox fanbase laughed when they thought Ratchet & Clank and Horizon Forbidden West were going to be 30fps.


Now everything is ok and I'm seeing a lot of damage controlling all over Twitter.

Why would you reply to the extremists? Is that where we are going to? Do we really need to play gotcha with these people? I don't understand that people don't find this tiring.

 

[DForce]

Why would you reply to the extremists? Is that where we are going to? Do we really need to play gotcha with these people? I don't understand that people don't find this tiring.

I rarely reply to these comments on twitter. They just show up on my feed.

Do we need a gotcha? A lot of people are here because people remember the conversation that happened years ago with two PlayStation games.

Just stop with the "why reply to these extremists" when we're literally on a forum debating video game topics.

 

[Helghan]

Just stop with the "why reply to these extremists" when we're literally on a forum debating video game topics.

I get debating video game topics, that makes sense. My point is that it always takes a very nasty turn immediately when it's a game from Xbox or from Playstation. Instead of trying to understand why Phil says it's a creative choice, we immediately get people putting their fingers in their ears and shouting a 100 times "but 60fps was the standard". This goes both ways btw.

 

[Kataploom]

Too many people here are clueless and some are hypocrite.

The game is running art 1440p on XSS, yet XSX can't reach 60 fps, therefore it's a CPU limitation.

No wonder many here think XSS is "a third as powerful as XSX", when I'm reality it's same a powerful with a GPU a third as powerful only considering all the architecture.

And I said hypocrite because many here cry nonstop for "current gen games that can't be done on previous gen", and well, this is the perfect example of that exactly. Yet they criticize it too for doing the thing they asked to be done. Damn.

 

[DenchDeckard]

The most POWERFUL console in the world, and its cant do 60, tisk tisk

What console do you own that can do 60fps in every game?

 

[DForce]

I get debating video game topics, that makes sense. My point is that it always takes a very nasty turn immediately when it's a game from Xbox or from Playstation. Instead of trying to understand why Phil says it's a creative choice, we immediately get people putting their fingers in their ears and shouting a 100 times "but 60fps was the standard". This goes both ways btw.

My point has nothing to do with Phil or the devs choice to make it 30fps, so that's irrelevant.

 

[PeteBull]

Why not 1440p and 60fps

Like ppl stated many times, cpu of xsx/xss cant keep up with 60fps animations/game logic, they would have to make game get srs nasty pop in if they tried to optimise for 60, think of forza horizon 5 xsx 60 vs 30fps modes, its not just resolution downgrade(by at least 50% on both axis) but on top they would need to make sure game needs only 50% of cpu power per frame vs what it needs at 30fps.

Just pray u get solid 30 if u playing on consoles, coz from what we saw from that lenghty gameplay vid, game drops regulary below 20fps, still 4 more months to polish it out+ undoubtfully day1 patch, few more patches after that tho, so who really knows how it will play in the end.
Atm tho, gameplay footage we were shown dips clearly under 20 fps and often.

 

[PeteBull]

They can cancel the 30fps on the S and move that extra 30 to the X for 60fps. S players can play the visual novel version.

If only it was so easy, time for mid-gen upgrades, aka ps5pr0 and xbox series Y ;D

 

[SirTerry-T]

Okay but the only "pushing of boundaries" you are referring to is in breadth of content. That does not say anything about the depth or complexity of the content, or the level of interactivity with it.

The things of depth and interactivity the Direct focused on, are not things without peer in other open-world games. Starfield might just have more of that in absolute number, but that's a poor metric to use to say "this is true next-gen", IMO.



Maybe the engine sucks due to being too cluttered, but if that's the case Bethesda should've worked harder to iron out those problems years ago.

The price to be paid seems to be the game not offering a 60 FPS option, but even lacking a 40 FPS option on consoles sucks too. At least there they could've used VRR to fake out smoother 60 or even 120 refresh support.



I watched the entire Showcase and Direct and, again, I haven't said anything bad about the game. It was one of the highlights and they had a lot of good stuff shown off. Some of my concerns from the 2022 footage and mentions are no longer a thing, either, so that's great.

I'm just not 100% on the idea it's the "first real next-gen game" as some people are putting it, or that it's the only game offering massive scale for an open-world game. Partly because "scale" is subjective.

The "first real next gen game" honour belongs to MS Flight Simulator

 

[PeteBull]

This is what they currently are, but will probably change:

Starfield PC system requirements​

Minimum specs​

• OS: Windows 10 version 22H2 (10.0.19045)
• Processor: AMD Ryzen 5 2600X, Intel Core i7-6800K
• Memory: 16 GB RAM
• Graphics: AMD Radeon RX 5700, NVIDIA GeForce 1070 Ti
• DirectX: Version 12
• Network: Broadband Internet connection
• Storage: 125 GB available space
• Additional Notes: SSD Required

Recommended specs​

• OS: Windows 10/11 with updates
• Processor: AMD Ryzen 5 3600X, Intel i5-10600K
• Memory: 16 GB RAM
• Graphics: AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080
• DirectX: Version 12
• Network: Broadband Internet connection
• Storage: 125 GB available space
• Additional Notes: SSD Required

Minimum spec could be for 720p 30fps (with dips, aka barely playable 20-30fps) at minimum possible settigs so lets wait and see how it runs in reality, recommended could mean 1080p30fps stable on medium settings too coz difference between r5 2600x and r5 3600x isnt enough to push from 30 to 60fps.
Gpu difference rx 5700 to rx 6800xt is over 2x but gtx 1070ti to rtx 2080 is not even +50% https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gtx-1070-ti.c3010 so lets take all those requirements w/o specific res/fps targest with ocean of salt, plz

From having tons of experience with bethesda games and taking big hint xsx/xss can only run game at 30, u will need really good cpu for stable 60fps on pc, imho at least r7 5800x3d or from newer gen r7 7700 or intels equivalent so i7 13700.
Ofc we could get nice surprise and game be nicely optimised/bug free on launch but its bethesda after all, guys, the extended gameplay footage from xbox showcase was regulary dropping below 20fps, so im just saying, lets brace ourselfs for obvious results

 

[Balducci30]

These so-called twitter trolls and warrior talk make it this way on the forum, so there's no way around it if you're talking about games on social media.

The point is, people love to point out hypocrisy and there's nothing wrong with it.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong calling out hypocrisy if you’re addressing it towards the individuals who actually said shit like that. They deserve what they get. I just think it’s better addressed towards the actual individual who said the dumb thing instead of pretending these trolls represent most fans of either console - I’d be happy to see the guy in the tweet called out - but im sure most people here weren’t saying this tho

 

[DForce]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong calling out hypocrisy if you’re addressing it towards the individuals who actually said shit like that. They deserve what they get. I just think it’s better addressed towards the actual individual who said the dumb thing instead of pretending these trolls represent most fans of either console - I’d be happy to see the guy in the tweet called out - but im sure most people here weren’t saying this tho

I'm dressing the narrative that was being pushed and I never said it was most fans of the console.

This happens all the time. Better just ignore it because it's going to happen all the time.

 

[DryvBy]

"Our next-gen lighting model uses real time global illumination to light the world based on the type of star and the planets' atmosphere" - Todd

 

[DeepEnigma]

"Our next-gen lighting model uses real time global illumination to light the world based on the type of star and the planets' atmosphere" - Todd

Bug #1 discovered.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

They simply need to unlock PC graphics options in the Series X version, rather than cap it at 30FPS 4k. If you I can't run it to your satisfaction, then let me see how close I can get. If i agree with you, great. If I dont, great.


The problem with this model is it surfaces they have underlying performance issues. Let me know when you will have those sorted out, or if you dont plan to sort it out ever on this hardware.

I now have info as a consumer to make decisions on acceptability and if I should wait for another generation of consoles.