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Business Sales-Age Sony FY: 7.8M PS5s, 338.9M games sold; posts record profit of $10.5Bn

Thirty7ven

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These are monstrous revenue and profit numbers, fuck 😬!

And to think a few weeks ago gaming journalists and internet experts were proclaiming the demise of Sony and calling for Jim to be fired. Last time I’ll ever pay attention to people on forums and on Twitter, y’all are a clueless bunch and way out of touch with reality.

There was a time when a gaming forum like NeoGaf had some pull, until late PS3 and maybe PS4 launch. That's over. Places like Neogaf and Purple place and whatever are now just an extremely niche avenue for crazier people to mess around in. It's funny that some people inside these communities believe that they represent much of anything. At best they represent themselves and their hottest of takes.
 
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Am I doing it right?

Edit:

To clarify. The numbers posted by Sony are monstrous. If this keeps going, there'll soon be a monopoly in the high-end console market.
i personally really think we need a strong 3 console vendors or more. it's ok for sony to "win" but if they completely crush they tend to do weird things and get lazy. thankfully though nintendo is also killing it and microsoft is doing a million times better than it was with the "one". we need competition and it's a good thing. we do not need fanboy wars. having a monopoly on high-end console market would not be good for ANY gamer.
 

kyliethicc

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Live scenes from Jimbo's office:

Super League Money GIF by Anderson .Paak
 

thismeinteil

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Let's be realistic the only reason why PS5's are selling is more due to carrying momentum from PS4, that's all, its nothing to do with Jim.
Man, this reminds me of the beginning of last gen. "Oh, it's only hype." "Wait til the XBO is the same price as the PS4." "Wait til those big exclusives that Papa Phil keeps promising come out." So, what's the reason the XSX isn't keeping up with XBO in several regions, possibly WW? Can we blame Phil for that one?
Nintendo operating profits Result for 3 quarters of FY2020 = $4.8bn

Playstation operating profits result for 4 quarters of FY2020 = $3.15bn

Reee users are stupid for comparing PlayStation operating profits vs Nintendo net profits.
As others have pointed out, Nintendo's cost of operations, investment level, and BOM are well below Sony's. The real problem with that is it may affect their future.

As of late, Nintendo has been make or break on the gimmicks their HW comes with. For handhelds, they had the Dual Screen, huge success. 3D Screen, success, but only sold half of the DS. For home consoles, they had motion control with Wii, which was a big success, though it died off rather quickly after 4 years. Motion controls plus a tablet controller, huge bomb. All this while always staying one step behind in the online department, again pointing to Nintendo's lack of big investment into the future.

Seeing the last of their gimmick HW not see the success they had hoped, they combined their home console and handheld HW into one, creating a hybrid console. And it has been a huge hit. Here's the problem, though, they are pretty much stuck with making improved versions of the Switch from here on out. Now, the hybrid hardware was a big hit this gen, but will the novelty of that hybrid nature wear off? Will they continue to see success or will they eventually see another Wii U/Gamecube at some point, only this time without a successful handheld to absorb the losses? If the latter ever happens, they'll have a lot of angry investors to answer to, and I could see quite a few abandon ship.
 
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Tomeru

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Sony themselves may have sold that many playstations, sure, but I imagine the number of end consumers (ie not scum of the fucking earth bot-spamming scalpers) securing at retail for the intended retail price is far, far lower.

Scalping was of course a thing back with PS4 but you could at least get one, and you didn't have to compete with the equivalent of fucking Skynet to get your hands on one.

People keep saying that scalpers only make up a small percentage of purchases but I just don't buy it (no pun intended). No fucking way when they are they constantly being listed (and bought by people with no self control or just really deep pockets) on places like eBay but you can almost never find them at retail or on regular online stores.

In other words, of course Sony's numbers are beefed to shit because you have all the consumers who wanted one anyway PLUS the absolute barrel-scrape-of-humanity scalpers buying them up and then reselling them.

What? So the numbers sony provided account for scalpers AND the people who bought from scalpers?
 

SlimySnake

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This part is depressing. I didnt see any investments in first party or anything game related beyond the 'strategic' investment in Epic which has nothing to do with gaming. Buying EVO and investing in fucking cloud companies isnt going to get people more exclusives or get more first party games in general.


4.Sony Group Corporation: acquisitions and strategic investments in FY 2020

- Sony Financial Holdings has become a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sony Group for $3.7Bn

- Funimation, a joint venture between Sony Pictures Entertainment and Aniplex, reached a deal to acquire Crunchyroll for $1.2Bn (subject to regulatory approval)

- Sony Corporation of America secured a 4.98% stake in Bilibili after investing US$400 million in cash

- Sony Music Entertainment will buy brazilian music label Som Livre for $255M

- Sony Music Entertainment will buy AWAL for $430M

- Sony Corporation of America made a strategic investment of $450M in Epic Games (2.1 % stake)

- Sony Imaging Products & Solutions acquired Nevion

- Sony Pictures Entertainment subsidiary Affirm Entertainment acquired Pure Flix

- Sony Pictures Television has taken majority stake in UK-based producer Eleven Film

- Sony Group made a strategic investment in Kadokawa (1.93% stake)

- Sony, Tencent and Square Enix made a strategic investment in cloud gaming company Ubitus

- Sony Interactive Entertainment and RTS jointly acquired EVO
 
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ethomaz

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I assume #2 is Sony console. I thought PS2 was still the clear #1 in sales. Or are they saying that the PS4 generates more user spend per sale?
They are talking about revenue... PS4 was way expensive than PS2 (50m or so of PS2 were sub $199).
Plus PS4 sold more software... so better attach rate and consumer expending.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

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Hardware $4.9Bn
Software $15Bn

-Physical $1.3Bn
-Digital $5.1Bn
-Add-On $8.6Bn

Don't let this story get swept under the rug. Sony made 8.6Bn with add ons to games. More than physical + digital games combined.

That's BEFORE Sony goes hard into GAAS. Holy ****.
 
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Great numbers. But they missed analyst estimates. Stock is down 2.3% as I type.


Operating profit in the March quarter was 66.5 billion yen, versus the 74 billion yen consensus among analysts. The company sold 3.3 million PlayStation 5 consoles in the period, tallying 7.8 million for the fiscal year for a slightly faster pace than with the previous hardware generation. Chief Financial Officer Hiroki Totoki said the company aims to sell more than 14.8 million units in the current year but warned the production bottleneck affecting the device will persist.

“Revenue from the PlayStation business as well as the music segment’s smartphone games missed a consensus of analysts who thought the stay-at-home demand would have propelled these business more,” said Hideki Yasuda, an analyst at Ace Research Institute.
 
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Bryank75

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This part is depressing. I didnt see any investments in first party or anything game related beyond the 'strategic' investment in Epic which has nothing to do with gaming. Buying EVO and investing in fucking cloud companies isnt going to get people more exclusives or get more first party games in general.


4.Sony Group Corporation: acquisitions and strategic investments in FY 2020

- Sony Financial Holdings has become a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sony Group for $3.7Bn

- Funimation, a joint venture between Sony Pictures Entertainment and Aniplex, reached a deal to acquire Crunchyroll for $1.2Bn (subject to regulatory approval)

- Sony Corporation of America secured a 4.98% stake in Bilibili after investing US$400 million in cash

- Sony Music Entertainment will buy brazilian music label Som Livre for $255M

- Sony Music Entertainment will buy AWAL for $430M

- Sony Corporation of America made a strategic investment of $450M in Epic Games (2.1 % stake)

- Sony Imaging Products & Solutions acquired Nevion

- Sony Pictures Entertainment subsidiary Affirm Entertainment acquired Pure Flix

- Sony Pictures Television has taken majority stake in UK-based producer Eleven Film

- Sony Group made a strategic investment in Kadokawa (1.93% stake)

- Sony, Tencent and Square Enix made a strategic investment in cloud gaming company Ubitus

- Sony Interactive Entertainment and RTS jointly acquired EVO

Yup, I really dislike this style of investing in dribs and drabs....

They could have sizable chunks of prolific Japanese developers stock in their pocket instead.

They need to get some good studios in China, like MiHoYo or someone else and expand there and they need to lock down some great IP's that are staples of the industry as exclusives for good.

There are excellent options out there that would return massive revenue and possibly profits if managed well.
 
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Thirty7ven

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Hardware $4.9Bn
Software $15Bn

-Physical $1.3Bn
-Digital $5.1Bn
-Add-On $8.6Bn

Don't let this story get swept under the rug. Sony made 8.6Bn with add ons to games. More than physical + digital games combined.

That's BEFORE Sony goes hard into GAAS. Holy ****.

It has been known that MTX has been an industry driver. Not a coincidence that Sony has been low key betting on MP games, either AA experiments or indies, and big projects are in the pipeline. TLOU factions can be really big, and they have Rainbow Six Siege devs working on a MP game at Guerrilla for example. Probably others in the pipeline. Think the struggle is really finding a project that adds to the platform, instead of projects that basically just compete H2H with other major MP games.
 
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Bryank75

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Great numbers. But they missed analyst estimates. Stock is down 2.3% as I type.


Operating profit in the March quarter was 66.5 billion yen, versus the 74 billion yen consensus among analysts. The company sold 3.3 million PlayStation 5 consoles in the period, tallying 7.8 million for the fiscal year for a slightly faster pace than with the previous hardware generation. Chief Financial Officer Hiroki Totoki said the company aims to sell more than 14.8 million units in the current year but warned the production bottleneck affecting the device will persist.

“Revenue from the PlayStation business as well as the music segment’s smartphone games missed a consensus of analysts who thought the stay-at-home demand would have propelled these business more,” said Hideki Yasuda, an analyst at Ace Research Institute.

Eh, they can never make investors happy....Disney and Netflix and many others are losing money and Investors pump money into them mindlessly, Sony has its best year ever and investors sell....... they are irrational idiots.
 

Banjo64

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Good thing about this is that they are making a shit tonne of consoles. 8 million when there’s a global shortage of components. They are producing at a rate where I am optimistic I may be able to get my hands on one by q4 (without needing assistance through discord or whatever). Shit hot numbers 🔥
 
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Thirty7ven

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Eh, they can never make investors happy....Disney and Netflix and many others are losing money and Investors pump money into them mindlessly, Sony has its best year ever and investors sell....... they are irrational idiots.

No, there just isn't a roadmap for further impressive growth. Everyone knows Sony is undervalued, but that's partly because they keep playing it safe.

Investors love companies that want to aggressively expand their market. And to a degree Sony is expanding their anime, music and movie divisions, but none of those divisions have the potential for enormous growth. They are great for Sony's brand image at a mainstream level, and they will make them more money, but limited potential otherwise.

To put it simply, there's no gamble.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Eh, they can never make investors happy....Disney and Netflix and many others are losing money and Investors pump money into them mindlessly, Sony has its best year ever and investors sell....... they are irrational idiots.
As long as a company is deemed "tech" it will always get a break. And Sony is not considered a tech stock even though most of it's products are techie in some fashion. Tesla is considered at tech valuations, even though it's really a car company.
 
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Bryank75

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No, there just isn't a roadmap for further impressive growth. Everyone knows Sony is undervalued, but that's partly because they keep playing it safe.

Investors love companies that want to aggressively expand their market. And to a degree Sony is expanding their anime, music and movie divisions, but none of those divisions have the potential for enormous growth. They are great for Sony's brand image at a mainstream level, and they will make them more money, but limited potential otherwise.

To put it simply, there's no gamble.
There's no real gamble with Apple either but they are still massively overvalued and Microsoft has always been pretty safe too IMO.

Sony was undervalued for 10 years due to macroeconomic issues, Japan being in a recession, currency etc. and now they are coming out of recession and Investors still only see negatives when their gaming business has grown massively.

I think they really need to just go out there and use their cash / debt to make some big moves..... the investments they have made have no real consequence for investors. There is no potential and I think most of them wanted Sony to go out and buy Square or Capcom or someone like that!
 

supernova8

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What? So the numbers sony provided account for scalpers AND the people who bought from scalpers?

I did word that badly, no of course not. They account for units sold which are a combination of units bought by scalpers (and then sold to end-consumers) and the ones bought directly by end-consumers.

I just wonder how many of those were direct to end-consumers. Not sure if there's any data on that.
 

Bryank75

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As long as a company is deemed "tech" it will always get a break. And Sony is not considered a tech stock even though most of it's products are techie in some fashion. Tesla is considered at tech valuations, even though it's really a car company.
True, I guess they are miss-labelled. Though I don't know if I'd label them tech or entertainment.... I'd lean entertainment.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Nintendo operating profits Result for 3 quarters of FY2020 = $4.8bn

Playstation operating profits result for 4 quarters of FY2020 = $3.15bn

Reee users are stupid for comparing PlayStation operating profits vs Nintendo net profits.

Nintendo annual/quarterly net income history and growth rate from 2006 to 2020. Net income can be defined as company's net profit or loss after all revenues, income items, and expenses have been accounted for.
  • Nintendo net income for the quarter ending December 31, 2020 was $M, a 100% decline year-over-year.
  • Nintendo net income for the twelve months ending December 31, 2020 was $1.423B, a 1321.81% decline year-over-year.
  • Nintendo annual net income for 2020 was $2.379B, a 36.28% increase from 2019.
  • Nintendo annual net income for 2019 was $1.746B, a 38.98% increase from 2018.
  • Nintendo annual net income for 2018 was $1.256B, a 39.18% increase from 2017.

 

Bryank75

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With Sony's performance, if it was considered tech with billions of profits, the stock would probably be up 20%.

I respect that coming from you. I thought they were worth somewhere around 180-200 billion in the current market, as a fair price.
But the markets are what they are....

Eh, I guess now is a good time to buy since they are down.
 

Papacheeks

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This part is depressing. I didnt see any investments in first party or anything game related beyond the 'strategic' investment in Epic which has nothing to do with gaming. Buying EVO and investing in fucking cloud companies isnt going to get people more exclusives or get more first party games in general.


4.Sony Group Corporation: acquisitions and strategic investments in FY 2020

- Sony Financial Holdings has become a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sony Group for $3.7Bn

- Funimation, a joint venture between Sony Pictures Entertainment and Aniplex, reached a deal to acquire Crunchyroll for $1.2Bn (subject to regulatory approval)

- Sony Corporation of America secured a 4.98% stake in Bilibili after investing US$400 million in cash

- Sony Music Entertainment will buy brazilian music label Som Livre for $255M

- Sony Music Entertainment will buy AWAL for $430M

- Sony Corporation of America made a strategic investment of $450M in Epic Games (2.1 % stake)

- Sony Imaging Products & Solutions acquired Nevion

- Sony Pictures Entertainment subsidiary Affirm Entertainment acquired Pure Flix

- Sony Pictures Television has taken majority stake in UK-based producer Eleven Film

- Sony Group made a strategic investment in Kadokawa (1.93% stake)

- Sony, Tencent and Square Enix made a strategic investment in cloud gaming company Ubitus

- Sony Interactive Entertainment and RTS jointly acquired EVO

That could also be because it is incorporated into operating income/expendatures. We know in first half of 2020 they spent over 329 Million on exclusive content. And that was literally for Deathloop, Ghostwire and a few others.

You are also wrong on their epic venture. That serves two purposes. It means content from Epic like Sony's characters in Fortnite, and Unreal engine 5 customizations for their game/film/tv studios. Also Kadokawa stake has to do with From software.

So expect games, also their investment in Asian studios is another one. Sony has spent for 2020-2021 a shit ton in exclusive content. And also when looking at this please keep in mind their spending in 2019 and on is also for games that are now coming out this year.

Alot of spending is done ahead of time.

They have spent a shit ton for this year and going into 2022. Just because it's not layed out doesnt mean they have not spent money on exclusive content. FF7R PS5/DLC, FF XVI, Neir, Persona royale, not inlcluding sega's published titles and things they have no yet announced.

A lot of stuff being announced soon were done years ago in terms of spending.
 

Thirty7ven

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There's no real gamble with Apple either but they are still massively overvalued and Microsoft has always been pretty safe too IMO.

Sony was undervalued for 10 years due to macroeconomic issues, Japan being in a recession, currency etc. and now they are coming out of recession and Investors still only see negatives when their gaming business has grown massively.

I think they really need to just go out there and use their cash / debt to make some big moves..... the investments they have made have no real consequence for investors. There is no potential and I think most of them wanted Sony to go out and buy Square or Capcom or someone like that!

Well Apple has switched to in house hardware, and that's fairly recent. Apple Arcarde, Apple +. There are rumblings of an Apple car. But of course Apple's current evaluation is due to astronomical market expansion they had with the Iphone. The ecosystem they built, the userbase they have, it's insane. But Apple is reaching a point where lack of exciting path forwards might start having some consequences. Their focus on making their own chips though, it's a big deal.

Microsoft through Cloud services is the same concept, just brutal expansion with epic growth possibilities.

Of course investors want Sony to go out there and be big dick. If it were up to them Sony would go out there and let Playstation either get Take Two through merger or through buyout. Hell they were pushing for Sony to buy Zenimax, that's when rumblings first started about Zenimax selling a couple of years ago.
 
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So looking at the trends XSX should be over 5 and heading toward 6, likely close to it and will pass it before E3. Which by that time Sony should be right next to 9.

Of course, there's saying MS might get more console production than Sony but until that happens I'm going to assume the trends are locked until both actuall have enough stock for air to be breathed.
 

Bryank75

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Well Apple has switched to in house hardware, and that's fairly recent. Apple Arcarde, Apple +. There are of course rumblings of an Apple car. But of course Apple's current evaluation is due to astronomical market expansion they had with the Iphone. The ecosystem they built, the userbase they have, it's insane. But Apple is reaching a point where lack of exciting path forwards might start having some consequences. Their focus on making their own chips though, it's a big deal.

Microsoft through Cloud services is the same concept, just brutal expansion with epic growth possibilities.

Of course investors want Sony to go out there and be big dick. If it were up to them Sony would go out there and let Playstation either get Take Two through merger or through buyout. Hell they were pushing for Sony to buy Zenimax, that's when rumblings first started about Zenimax selling a couple of years ago.
Yeah, I thought it would have filled in a few gaps nicely...like a flagship shooter and WRPGs. I really dunno why they didn't try... (Maybe they did, but I didn't hear)
 

Bryank75

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So looking at the trends XSX should be over 5 and heading toward 6, likely close to it and will pass it before E3. Which by that time Sony should be right next to 9.

Of course, there's saying MS might get more console production than Sony but until that happens I'm going to assume the trends are locked until both actuall have enough stock for air to be breathed.
PS5 was at 7.8 at the end of March, they are averaging 1.1 million a month. So they should be around 9 now and 10 by the end of next month if they keep at this pace.
 

Men_in_Boxes

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It has been known that MTX has been an industry driver. Not a coincidence that Sony has been low key betting on MP games, either AA experiments or indies, and big projects are in the pipeline. TLOU factions can be really big, and they have Rainbow Six Siege devs working on a MP game at Guerrilla for example. Probably others in the pipeline. Think the struggle is really finding a project that adds to the platform, instead of projects that basically just compete H2H with other major MP games.

The story isn't that MTX are an industry driver.

The story is that Sony made 8.6Bn, which is more than their physical + digital combined.

The story is looking at Sony's current crop of MTX offerings and realizing how poorly they're doing there in terms of output.

Once Sony leverages GAAS to their full potential, watch out.
 
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I respect that coming from you. I thought they were worth somewhere around 180-200 billion in the current market, as a fair price.
But the markets are what they are....

Eh, I guess now is a good time to buy since they are down.
Sony is trending up, but since it's not a tech play it'll never have +/- 20% kinds of days. Thats good or bad depending on someone's appetite for volatility.

The worst I ever had was 20 years ago. I had NSM (National Semiconductor). It had a missed earnings after hours and the stock dropped from something like $44 to $22 in 5 minutes. And I dont have after hours trading access. ALl I could do is see the AH ticker on CNBC and see NSM at -$22.
 

drganon

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Eh, they can never make investors happy....Disney and Netflix and many others are losing money and Investors pump money into them mindlessly, Sony has its best year ever and investors sell....... they are irrational idiots.
Investors also thought it was a great a idea at one point to invest in Enron.
 
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IntentionalPun

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Eh, they can never make investors happy....Disney and Netflix and many others are losing money and Investors pump money into them mindlessly, Sony has its best year ever and investors sell....... they are irrational idiots.
Netflix is not losing money.

Pretty sure that's the third time I've told you that, specifically, and like the 10th time on this forum I've seen someone make that claim lol
 
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Bodomism

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Nintendo annual/quarterly net income history and growth rate from 2006 to 2020. Net income can be defined as company's net profit or loss after all revenues, income items, and expenses have been accounted for.
  • Nintendo net income for the quarter ending December 31, 2020 was $M, a 100% decline year-over-year.
  • Nintendo net income for the twelve months ending December 31, 2020 was $1.423B, a 1321.81% decline year-over-year.
  • Nintendo annual net income for 2020 was $2.379B, a 36.28% increase from 2019.
  • Nintendo annual net income for 2019 was $1.746B, a 38.98% increase from 2018.
  • Nintendo annual net income for 2018 was $1.256B, a 39.18% increase from 2017.

Stop using that website lol
Take a look at Nintendo own financial report.