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Opinion Drama Cringe Should the Xbox Series S have gone the PS5 digital edition route?

Microsoft should have:


  • Total voters
    289

Shmunter

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Complete waste of time this console.

Almost as stupid as that SAD Edition rubbish they released. Will sell like shit.
Yeah a budget console yet not giving BC to the plethora of cheap Discs out there is counter intuitive. I guess it is gamepass focused if to present any value - but even then it's a payment trap for potentially those that can least afford it.

Even the small SDD, if one were to upgrade takes it over the XsX original price I think?

Nope.
 

Panajev2001a

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I imagine difference being on PC is users are left to their own devises, set it wrong you're running a slideshow, no shits given. On Xbox, devs are forced to release a competent & tested product on Xss if they wish to be part of the eco system.

Dev effort, testing, spread more thin, time, money, etc.
I find it curious we are on the dev blaming drum again 😂: so very senior engine people (with devkit access) at a company expressed informed opinions (those people are paid big money to form useful informed opinions based on HW specs and devkit access btw… and which facts later on started to echo) and people are commenting “devs should have contacted MS dev support” (aka “they besmirched poor MS, you do not air your dirty laundry in public unless you are criticising PS3 CELL or something Sony made”) and “of course devs would like to just use an RTX3090 as minimum HW target” (aka “lazy whiny devs that are unwilling to work hard to get the performance they need and have unrealistic expectations”) 🤦‍♂️.

In summary: XSS HAS to be a good idea and the best possible idea and no reason is good enough to criticise it :rolleyes:… sigh…
 
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vaibhavpisal

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I imagine difference being on PC is users are left to their own devises, set it wrong you're running a slideshow, no shits given. On Xbox, devs are forced to release a competent & tested product on Xss if they wish to be part of the eco system.

Dev effort, testing, spread more thin, time, money, etc.

More developers getting employed.

It's better for economy in tough covid times.
 
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Panajev2001a

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More developers getting employed.

It's better for economy in tough covid times.
“We need to decode whether to just drop frames and butcher IQ and/or leave giant bugs in it… and hiring even more people”

I think the decision will be the former if they can get away with it ;).
 
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FireFly

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“We need to decode whether to just drop frames and butcher IQ and/or leave giant bugs in it… and hiring even more people”

I think the decision will be the former if they can get away with it ;).
It depends on how big the S audience will be. (Developers are qualified to talk about technical, not market challenges). Though, it's interesting that the biggest critic is now a first party developer, so it's not like they will be lacking resources.
 
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Panajev2001a

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It depends on how big the S audience will be. (Developers are qualified to talk about technical, not market challenges). Though, it's interesting that the biggest critic is now a first party developer, so it's not like they will be lacking resources.
The bigger the audience the more the support the lesser the proper utilisation of the XSX and as an XSX customer I am not too too happy about that.

A digital only XSX with 512 GB of storage could have sold for $349-399 and would have avoided this problem completely… MS clearly did not expect the $399 PS5 DE and created the XSS as a pincher movement strategy without taking that possibility into account or underestimating PS5 and consumer demand (not the first time a company places their understanding of their users’ preferences over what people really feel).
 

dvdvideo

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Personally yes I think they should have...

i realize optimization will occur on the XseX/S, but cross gen games are already taxing the thing and dropping the resolution on titles.

I think once real next gen engines and such get moving we'll see the S REALLY start to struggle, I couldn't see the S pulling off fidelity on a game like Rift Apart for example (just an example, leave the war BS behind) without some serious cutbacks to effects/res/FPS etc

They would definitely prefer that yes, but not giving devs ”major issues with the ram situation on Series S” is pretty far from suggesting RTX 3090s to be fitted into these consoles.

2.5x the teraflop count, bigger and faster SSD in PS5 DE for a $100 more.
That’s value.

You do realize that 2 items can have value in different ways. If you don't care about 4k, the faster ssd, and you value your money more, and maybe gamepass, the s has more value to the potential purchaser. Also the DE is so scarce, it isn't even an option for most buyers.
 
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dvdvideo

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Complete waste of time this console.

Almost as stupid as that SAD Edition rubbish they released. Will sell like shit.

The S digital has almost nothing in common with the series S, if you don't understand the hardware that's fine, maybe do some more reading? And it's already selling just fine, so saying it will sell like shit is already wrong.
 

FireFly

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The bigger the audience the more the support the lesser the proper utilisation of the XSX and as an XSX customer I am not too too happy about that.

A digital only XSX with 512 GB of storage could have sold for $349-399 and would have avoided this problem completely… MS clearly did not expect the $399 PS5 DE and created the XSS as a pincher movement strategy without taking that possibility into account or underestimating PS5 and consumer demand (not the first time a company places their understanding of their users’ preferences over what people really feel).
For third party games, the combined PS5+XSX audience should be much bigger than the S audience, so there still will be substantial incentive to target the XSX as a first-class citizen. And first party games will have Microsoft's resources, and the pressure from Microsoft to compete graphically with PS5 exclusives. The PS5 DE looks to be already losing a substantial amount of money, and my guess is that it won't drop below $400 until the end of the generation. While the XSS could drop to $249 or lower.

The difference I think is that the XSS and XSX were planned to be sustainable at their respective price points and to enable further drops, while the DE at $400 was a reactive move to counter Microsoft.
 

dvdvideo

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I'm one of those having zero issues with current Xbox naming, it's easy to get that "S" is low end and "X" is high end, but surely Wii U name was a very big problem for its marketing, also it was not "barely" more powerful than Wii, but by landslide. It was actually more powerfull than PS360 apart from CPU (but even PS4 and Xbone CPUs are weaker than those on PS360).

The problem was mostly the marketing and I'm talking about the console look too, it was very confusing for consumers thinking it was just a wii, which I think is not a problem for Xbox Series consoles, if anything they nailed the visual design this time after all the shit we threw at them for the VCR meme on Xbone launch lol.

The wii u failed hard as it released with 2005 hardware in 2012. It was the rough overall equivalent of 360 or ps3, and they were 7 years old. The new machines came out a mere 12 months later and completely destroyed the wii u.
 

Stare-Bear

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The Medium might not be the best optimised game out there, but to have your first "exclusive" next-gen showing run at 720p at times is just embarrassing. The console is too power constraint. With Resident Evil 8 selling 75% of it's console sales on PS5/PS4, it's a big ask from developers to please optimise their games for the Series S.
 
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Raekwon26

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The S digital has almost nothing in common with the series S, if you don't understand the hardware that's fine, maybe do some more reading? And it's already selling just fine, so saying it will sell like shit is already wrong.


It has plenty in common with it actually.

Do people like you actually think this low entry price point shit works? Are you really that stupid?

The people buying these video game consoles aren't people in their 50s or 60s. It's people in the 30s and 40s. People who grew up buying a PS1, PS2, GC, and others. They know a lot more about consoles and specs than their parents so they would know what to buy for their kids. Reason why the PS5 and Switch are selling like crazy.

It's selling like shit. Probably being outsold 2:1 by the XSX and will most likely increase.

Waste of time console. Just like the One S.
 
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SomeGit

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The Medium might not be the best optimised game out there, but to have your first "exclusive" next-gen showing run at 720p at times is just embarrassing. The console is too power constraint. With Resident Evil 8 selling 75% of it's console sales on PS5/PS4, it's a big ask from developers to please optimise their games for the Series S.
If DF/VGTech didn't tell you you'd probably never notice the times it drops to 720p, arguing about the lowest bound of the DRS is ridiculous unless it's the average resolution or median resolution. If RE8 devs are still making PS4/XB1S versions of games, then XSS is the least of their worries, it should run those games easily as it does with RE8. And when next gen starts rolling if the XSS bring a bigger market as expected, I doubt devs will be that much worried about adding a lower end SKU if it brings them more revenue from it.
 
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Clear

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Series S is an unwelcome distraction for devs and should never have been greenlit.

There's nothing wrong with it as a device, its just not needed by anyone really. Yeah it offers a cheaper entry-option but with it still being the price of standard console (as opposed to a Fire stick or other micro device) its not that appealing a proposition when compared with the digital only PS5.
 

Hitchyhero

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This garbage again? Since 99% of these multiplatform games have a pc version, your saying it's fine to develop for a 4 core processor, 8 gigs of ram and 8 year old video card on PC in thousands of configurations but one closed platform with more power somehow "holds back" next gen? Please.
Yeah I don't get these arguments.

PC literally supports multiple GPUs, CPUs, and RAM all with varying performance. Yet PC is still the place to play if you want the best (graphically and res/fps).
 
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LMJ

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You do realize that 2 items can have value in different ways. If you don't care about 4k, the faster ssd, and you value your money more, and maybe gamepass, the s has more value to the potential purchaser. Also the DE is so scarce, it isn't even an option for most buyers.


Agreed, hence why I said I think MS should have taken the loss and made an all digital device for 399.99 or even better 349.99 at $50 more it's just as big a bargain, and then you're not getting a weaker console to boot...

Again maybe I'm wrong, but we haven't seen next gen only games from MS or third party (sans Medium) and the XseS is already showing it's weakness again and again...at some point the money saved isn't worth the headache for Devs and the lack of features/res/etc for gamers in my opinion

As for your comment on the DE, dude the V itself is scarce lol can't find it anywhere either :p
 
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dvdvideo

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It has plenty in common with it actually.

Do people like you actually think this low entry price point shit works? Are you really that stupid?

The people buying these video game consoles aren't people in their 50s or 60s. It's people in the 30s and 40s. People who grew up buying a PS1, PS2, GC, and others. They know a lot more about consoles and specs than their parents so they would know what to buy for their kids. Reason why the PS5 and Switch are selling like crazy.

It's selling like shit. Probably being outsold 2:1 by the XSX and will most likely increase.

Waste of time console. Just like the One S.

All kinds of people across all age groups buying consoles nowadays. The only one being stupid here is you. Tons of people on this board bought the s knowing exactly what the hardware was inside ......and apparently understanding it better than you.

The one s has nothing in common, it was a mid gen re-release of an existing console, which has zero in common with a brand new console. If it's selling like shit, why were the shelves bare for 5 months in all of North America? Think for 2 seconds maybe before posting next time.
 
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vaibhavpisal

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You do realize that 2 items can have value in different ways. If you don't care about 4k, the faster ssd, and you value your money more, and maybe gamepass, the s has more value to the potential purchaser. Also the DE is so scarce, it isn't even an option for most buyers.

True.

If you want to play fun online games and want gamepass, PS5 digital isn't an option at all.

Also series s and x are 2 completely different products at entirely different price points. Unlike PS5 digital which is basically same with similar price as well.

I got series s for its size. And my bedroom display is 1080p. Any other current gen console wouldn't have fit in space I have. For that alone it's worth having as an option.
 
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dvdvideo

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True.

If you want to play fun online games and want gamepass, PS5 digital isn't an option at all.

Also series s and x are 2 completely different products at entirely different price points. Unlike PS5 digital which is basically same with similar price as well.

I got series s for its size. And my bedroom display is 1080p. Any other current gen console wouldn't have fit in space I have. For that alone it's worth having as an option.

And yet Raekwon26 says basically you are "stupid" and bought the equivalent of an xbox one s which makes less than zero sense.
Also it's impossible according to him that you are 10-30 or 50-60 yrs old, so make sure you aren't young or a bit older and buy video games, that's not possible. 🤣
 
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Thirty7ven

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Just yesterday ign did a poll on YouTube. A lot of people voted.


But the actual market says that in 2019 4K TVs amounted to over 53% of the sales. I’m sure a lot of the people voting were PC gamers with 1080p monitors.

Then you have to factor in what kind of people want to buy a console, and how many of those want to buy a Ps5 or a Series X.

Series S will end up being a console that was designed for an imaginary large market that turned out to be a tiny market.

Also series s and x are 2 completely different products at entirely different price points. Unlike PS5 digital which is basically same with similar price as well.

Taking aside your worthless trolling, saying the PS5 DE is basically the same price as a standard PS5 is just looney toons.
 
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KungFucius

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Sounds like someone's mum bought them an XSS for Christmas. I'd be trying to hype it up too in your situation. Here's the part where you tell me how great of a little emulator it is. In reality, it's a waste of developer funds.
Do you have proof that it is a waste of developer funds? Can you show that the marginal cost of getting the game to run on the lower spec'ed hardware outweighs the return they get in sales to XSS owners keeping in mind that they have to do similar tasks to get the games to run on older PC hardware? I mean apart from one dev whining about it.
 
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KungFucius

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But the actual market says that in 2019 4K TVs amounted to over 53% of the sales. I’m sure a lot of the people voting were PC gamers with 1080p monitors.

Then you have to factor in what kind of people want to buy a console, and how many of those want to buy a Ps5 or a Series X.

Series S will end up being a console that was designed for an imaginary large market that turned out to be a tiny market.



Taking aside your worthless trolling, saying the PS5 DE is basically the same price as a standard PS5 is just looney toons.
What? You think sales of TVs in 2019 is indicative of what people are playing on and that that negates a survey that covers people that clearly haven't updated their TV's since well before then! That is kind of crazy. It's like saying most people play on PS5 because it sold more than PS4 and xbone in recent months. Even if someone owns a 4k TV it doesn't mean they care that their games are 4k or 1080p. Do you think all Netflix subscribers with 4k TVs pay for 4K Netflix?

Your logic is ridiculous. You found one data point and extrapolated it into proof of a larger false narrative while ignoring countless other important factors. Way to simplify something into utter nonsense to back your fanboy bias.
 
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Thirty7ven

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What? You think sales of TVs in 2019 is indicative of what people are playing on and that that negates a survey that covers people that clearly haven't updated their TV's since well before then! That is kind of crazy. It's like saying most people play on PS5 because it sold more than PS4 and xbone in recent months. Even if someone owns a 4k TV it doesn't mean they care that their games are 4k or 1080p. Do you think all Netflix subscribers with 4k TVs pay for 4K Netflix?

Your logic is ridiculous. You found one data point and extrapolated it into proof of a larger false narrative while ignoring countless other important factors. Way to simplify something into utter nonsense to back your fanboy bias.

So what you’re saying is that most people interested in a next gen console have 1080p TVs and will stick to 1080p TVs for the next few years?

Regarding your whole “care if it’s 4K, don’t care if it’s 4K”, yeah you’re right, they mostly care about how a game looks and runs. But that’s the thing, the generalized perception is already that Series S doesn’t cut the mustard, and we are months into the gen.

Defending your purchase is meaningless when evaluating the market. It doesn’t matter if you think the Series S is a great console, it matters how the market reacts to it. We will see in the next two years just how large of a market share the Series S has. Y
 
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Racer!

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Much too early to tell. Its when next generation only games starts to hit it will show. Lets see if Xbox 1st party can keep up with PS5 1st party.
 
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DustQueen

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Is it better than one x by a fair margin? I was watching a performance comparison video for resident evil village and I swore they said the One X had a 4k mode that ran between 40 to 50fps and 1080 at 60fps, while the Series S ran 1440 at 60fps without RT or 30fps with RT. It made me think the One X could do 1440 at 60fps.
So? One X has more memory at faster speed.
It does not change the fact that Series S has way more advanced GPU n
4x CPU performance compared to OneX Jaguar.
Plus 20x+ storage speed.
 
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Raekwon26

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All kinds of people across all age groups buying consoles nowadays. The only one being stupid here is you. Tons of people on this board bought the s knowing exactly what the hardware was inside ......and apparently understanding it better than you.

The one s has nothing in common, it was a mid gen re-release of an existing console, which has zero in common with a brand new console. If it's selling like shit, why were the shelves bare for 5 months in all of North America? Think for 2 seconds maybe before posting next time.

Nah, they really aren't. A specific demographic are buying these consoles right now, when more become avaliable, then the casual market will get involved but based on the numbers we are seeing we already know where they are heading.

Oh they know about the hardware inside, that's why it's still in the shelves and in warehouses collecting dust. It's selling like shit and the fact you only mentioned NA further proves my point. I'm sorry, I swore MS said it was a worldwide release? Does the world outside of the US not exist? I guess I and the rest of the world must be living in the matrix.....

It sucks. Meant to be a gamepass machine like the SAD edition was. That SAD edition even launched almost a full year before gamepass existed and its numbers didn't increase. Pitiful machine, just like the XSS.

ANOTHER MS Hardware flop.
 
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Ceadeus

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I like it better than the one x I had which is a good sign!

I didn't noticed the comeback to 1080p that much, really. As long as my games hit 60fps, I'm damn satisfied.

But I sure would have bought a pricier digital series X for the additional horsepower. But, as for now, my tv does NOT support HDR and 120hz. Without the TV to support its fancy features, games remains the same and plays well enough.

It makes the Series S a very viable solution, at least, for the beginning of this generation.
 

Sparhavoc

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Nah, they really aren't. A specific demographic are buying these consoles right now, when more become avaliable, then the casual market will get involved but based on the numbers we are seeing we already know where they are heading.

Oh they know about the hardware inside, that's why it's still in the shelves and in warehouses collecting dust. It's selling like shit and the fact you only mentioned NA further proves my point. I'm sorry, I swore MS said it was a worldwide release? Does the world outside of the US not exist? I guess I and the rest of the world must be living in the matrix.....

It sucks. Meant to be a gamepass machine like the SAD edition was. That SAD edition even launched almost a full year before gamepass existed and its numbers didn't increase. Pitiful machine, just like the XSS.

ANOTHER MS Hardware flop.
They are mostly sold out in the UK when they come in stock they do stick around longer because it's not a scalpers most sorted item. Only reason you can't get ahold of series x and your precious PS5 is because of bots.

You say it's an hardware flop but it's actually very decent for what you pay for it. Then again I have no wonder why sony fanboys get so feral when it comes to Xbox. If you care so much about specs you'd be on PC surely
 
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Raekwon26

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They are mostly sold out in the UK when they come in stock they do stick around longer because it's not a scalpers most sorted item. Only reason you can't get ahold of series x and your precious PS5 is because of bots.

You say it's an hardware flop but it's actually very decent for what you pay for it. Then again I have no wonder why sony fanboys get so feral when it comes to Xbox. If you care so much about specs you'd be on PC surely
It's funny you say that. Thank God I live in the UK so I can do some quick easy checks.

It is readily available in the following places RIGHT NOW:

Argos
Tesco
PC World
Smyths
Sainsbury (LOL)
Amazon UK
Currys
Ebuyer
BT Shop

Sooooooooooo............nah. It's there for purchase. I wonder why that is............?

Hey, you like it, that's fine. Enjoy your purchase. It's funny how I can prefer Nintendo but get called a Sony fanboy.............. says a lot about some of you here.

.............and I am on PC.
 
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jroc74

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My original statement was that there’s more pressure on the PS5DE to not drop in price

My guess is the Series S is right around $300 whereas the PS5DE is likely north of $500. Microsoft has a big incentive to price the Series S around $249 when supply starts to stabilize at $299, and even then they’ll still likely be taking much less of a loss than the PS5DE. I bet less than 12 months from now we’ll see the drop.
So....with the bill of materials estimate of the PS5 being $450...you think the DE is north of $500. The DE doesnt have the disc drive. What would that put the regular PS5 at what...close to $600? The only difference between the two is the disc drive and the drive shell.

I'm talking strictly BOM here, not what gets added after that.

That's an interesting opinion, lol. And yeah the XSS is probably right around $300...but its over $300.

They are both sold at a loss.
 
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dcmk7

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It's funny you say that. Thank God I live in the UK so I can do some quick easy checks.

It is readily available in the following places RIGHT NOW:

Argos
Tesco
PC World
Smyths
Sainsbury (LOL)
Amazon UK
Currys
Ebuyer
BT Shop

Sooooooooooo............nah. It's there for purchase. I wonder why that is............?

Hey, you like it, that's fine. Enjoy your purchase. It's funny how I can prefer Nintendo but get called a Sony fanboy.............. says a lot about some of you here.

.............and I am on PC.
Wow, didn't know it was in all those places.

A lot more than envisioned.

No wonder I'm seeing it discounted in places.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I think people also forget to mention that there are not many PS5DE in the market as well. Most sales show that it is dwarfed by the physical edition and you are not seeing it in the shelves.

Yes, it's more like 1:5 worldwide, with zero DE in our region. But what matters is the concept itself, I'm more than sure most Xbox gamers will be happy with an SX digital at $400 with 1TB instead of $300 S with 512GB. The sacrifice in price isn't worth it IMO. This is like being happy with 3090 even if not owning it, because that will push the lower entry to be higher than usual for the PC space, but then it'll be tied now to SS instead of PS5 and SX. You can easily see what devs will do with PS5/XSX being the lowest common denominators in a few years later, even pushing both to their knees to 1080p or even 900p for 120fps!
 
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Raekwon26

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Wow, didn't know it was in all those places.

A lot more than envisioned.

No one I'm seeing it discounted in places.

Shocking is it not? /s

But let DVDVIDEO tell it and "it's flying off the shelves in the US *hyuck*"............ and the rest of the world?

I swear the UK is Xbox's 2nd biggest market?
 
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That's like saying gaming PCs with medium entry gpus are holding the industry back. It is simply not true. Let the professionals worry about that
Minimum specs go up with PCs so your argument doesn't hold. We've also had some professionals speak candidly about not liking the Series S because it creates unnecessary challenges for them and makes them dial certain things down in design due to difficulty with optimization for it.


For consoles the whole point of a new gen is new hardware that is significantly better than previous hardware and that raises the bar for everyone. The Series S being tied to old mediocre hardware is holding back next gen gaming. I don't know about you but I buy new consoles to not only play new games but to get experiences that were impossible in previous gens. Another cool thing about new consoles is that they raise minimum specs on the PC side, as the consoles are usually the lowest common denominator for multiplatform games. Higher console specs mean higher minimum requirements for PC and more complex game worlds for multiplatform games. I'm not trying to console war here but there's a reason why Sony can pull out a games like R&C that look incredible because it's designed for higher console specs and there's a reason why MS is struggling with Halo Infinite's graphics that's designed to run on everything from XB1 to potato PCs and the Series X. If Halo Infinite was targeting the Series X hardware as its baseline I'm sure it would look way more impressive than it does now. Hardware matters and there's a thing like lower specs holding back games.
 
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Minimum specs go up with PCs so your argument doesn't hold. We've also had some professionals speak candidly about not liking the Series S because it creates unnecessary challenges for them and makes them dial certain things down in design due to difficulty with optimization for it.


For consoles the whole point of a new gen is new hardware that is significantly better than previous hardware and that raises the bar for everyone. The Series S being tied to old mediocre hardware is holding back next gen gaming. I don't know about you but I buy new consoles to not only play new games but to get experiences that were impossible in previous gens. Another cool thing about new consoles is that they raise minimum specs on the PC side, as the consoles are usually the lowest common denominator for multiplatform games. Higher console specs mean higher minimum requirements for PC and more complex game worlds for multiplatform games. I'm not trying to console war here but there's a reason why Sony can pull out a games like R&C that look incredible because it's designed for higher console specs and there's a reason why MS is struggling with Halo Infinite's graphics that's designed to run on everything from XB1 to potato PCs and the Series X. If Halo Infinite was targeting the Series X hardware as its baseline I'm sure it would look way more impressive than it does now. Hardware matters and there's a thing like lower specs holding back games.
yup

gtx 770 and 780 went eol just after 2 years they were released. i'm serious. go check up 2015 fall and 2016 game benchmarks, they struggle big time. why? because developers had access to 4-8 gb vram gpus. and they didn't care single bit for 770 and 780. you could turn down the textures all the way to the bottom, and you would still get big stutters. so pc users moved on, and bought new shiny gpus.

in 2017, ac origins put the 4 core/4 threaded i5 cpus to the rest. a huge amount of gamers were on these cpus and suddenly with the influx of multihreaded games such as battlefield 5, cod and more, everyone moved on.

in 2018 games, you were practically doomed with anything below 7700k. and then came the 6 core i5. 6 core r5. specs increased. people moved on

people act like games run fine on old hardware. they simply don't. even having an outdated architecture will hamper the performance big time.

besides series s is not even equal to midrange gpus. midrange for 2021 is rtx 2060/2070/rx5700xt

series s could be considered midrange for 2017-2019. the times when a 1060 and rx 580 was midrange has long gone. these cards cannot push 1080p 60 fps anymore. and series s won't able to as well.
 
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JackMcGunns

Member
Nov 26, 2018
645
1,212
360
Literally. I would be more than happy as a gamer to see an Xbox Series X digital at $400 instead. It'll be extremely hard to find them in stores compared to S right now being relatively easy to grab one.



Resident Evil 8 would have been so much better if it weren't for the S.

Facts!

Delusional facts.
 

smithg5

Member
Nov 4, 2014
288
384
455
So....with the bill of materials estimate of the PS5 being $450...you think the DE is north of $500. The DE doesnt have the disc drive. What would that put the regular PS5 at then...close to $600? The only difference between the two is the disc drive and the drive shell.

I'm talking strictly BOM here, not what gets added after that.

That's an interesting opinion, lol. And yeah the XSS is probably right around $300...but its over $300.

They are both sold at a loss.
Why would Sony calculate their cost with only BOM? Each unit requires assembly, testing, packaging, shipping, and a retail cut.

It’s known that the PS5 loses money each sale, so clearly it’s more than $500. And as you said, the DE is likely a very similar cost to manufacture.
 

SomeGit

Member
Apr 15, 2021
92
102
185
yup

gtx 770 and 780 went eol just after 2 years they were released. i'm serious. go check up 2015 fall and 2016 game benchmarks, they struggle big time. why? because developers had access to 4-8 gb vram gpus. and they didn't care single bit for 770 and 780. you could turn down the textures all the way to the bottom, and you would still get big stutters. so pc users moved on, and bought new shiny gpus.

in 2017, ac origins put the 4 core/4 threaded i5 cpus to the rest. a huge amount of gamers were on these cpus and suddenly with the influx of multihreaded games such as battlefield 5, cod and more, everyone moved on.

in 2018 games, you were practically doomed with anything below 7700k. and then came the 6 core i5. 6 core r5. specs increased. people moved on

people act like games run fine on old hardware. they simply don't. even having an outdated architecture will hamper the performance big time.

besides series s is not even equal to midrange gpus. midrange for 2021 is rtx 2060/2070/rx5700xt

series s could be considered midrange for 2017-2019. the times when a 1060 and rx 580 was midrange has long gone. these cards cannot push 1080p 60 fps anymore. and series s won't able to as well.

Given that no GPUs are available at the moment, saying "in 2021" is misleading, we have really progressed since early 2020. 1060s and 580s are probably the only GPUs that are available at the moment, they are still the most common they are for all intents and purposes the actual midrange at the moment along with the 5500/5600/1660/1660 Super, with the R5 3600 being the equivalent midrange CPU.

Even still, I'd never consider the 2070 and 5700xt midrange, high midrange at the most, but 400$+ "midrange" isn't true, even in 2019 market prices or 2021 MSRP.
 
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Apr 6, 2015
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Why does everyone think that every parent or non hardcore gaming is completely stupid and oblivious? But for some reason the ps3 started outselling the cheaper 360 once games started coming. For some reason people bought the ps4 in far larger quantity even once the xbox one started retailing for at least 50 bucks less. The iphone 11 is the best selling phone of 2020 by a mile, or the cheaper mini or se2.

What’s the definition of enthusiasts anyway? People that can google something for 30 seconds? Better products outsell the cheaper stuff all the time. It doesn’t take spending dozens of hours gaming a day to see the massive power advantage of a digital ps5 for only 100 bucks more.

And again we are consumers not stakeholders. All these arguments that benefit only Microsoft at the cost of better products for us is stupefying. The series s will hold a number of games back this gen. No if, ands, or buts about it. I don’t make money when ms does thus devs being forced to make games run on far weaker hardware for years to come is bad.
If you actually read my other posts in this thread you’d realize that 1. I find it hard to recommend the S to even 25% if people and 2. That I wish they had done the digital X route and met Sony on price on both SKUs.

The 360 didn’t lose because of games. It lost because America and GB are the only places it sells. It’s the world versus 2 countries. Yes one of those countries is a huge market but the majority of the world isn’t buying an Xbox either way. Microsoft knows they won’t win which is evident in their strategies.

Also as somebody that works with Apple the Mini is the worst selling phone in the entire lineup and I’m not sure what this has to do with anything because the 11 is $200 cheaper then the 12 and if people cared about quality then the cheaper device wouldn’t sell more..

I’m not arguing for Microsoft. Im arguing the fact that the device has a place in the console landscape despite what people on both sides seem to think about it.

AND if the Series S is going to hold back game development then so will the millions of GTX 1060s, and 8th Gen i5s on the pc side will too (which they don’t). Either way for the next couple years we are going to get crossgen games anyway which are held back by much worse devices then Series S.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Jun 1, 2013
9,035
4,101
850
Why would Sony calculate their cost with only BOM? Each unit requires assembly, testing, packaging, shipping, and a retail cut.

It’s known that the PS5 loses money each sale, so clearly it’s more than $500. And as you said, the DE is likely a very similar cost to manufacture.
Because I'm only talking about the BOM? I thought me stating that a couple of times would have been enough.

Yeah, all 3 next gen consoles lose money on each sale. All are selling at a loss.....

Even if the PS5 amd DE are roughly the same...one doesnt have a disc drive. That would cost less to build regardless ....because its removing a component.

If we look at the PS4, $381 BOM, still sold at a loss factoring in everything else not in included in this chart:




Thats why I'm only going by the BOM. Since thats the only thing we will ever get whenever the numbers come out.

The PS4 and XBO:



Remove Kinect and it was damn near the same as the PS4.
 
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Sparhavoc

Member
Sep 4, 2020
678
1,278
480
Minimum specs go up with PCs so your argument doesn't hold. We've also had some professionals speak candidly about not liking the Series S because it creates unnecessary challenges for them and makes them dial certain things down in design due to difficulty with optimization for it.


For consoles the whole point of a new gen is new hardware that is significantly better than previous hardware and that raises the bar for everyone. The Series S being tied to old mediocre hardware is holding back next gen gaming. I don't know about you but I buy new consoles to not only play new games but to get experiences that were impossible in previous gens. Another cool thing about new consoles is that they raise minimum specs on the PC side, as the consoles are usually the lowest common denominator for multiplatform games. Higher console specs mean higher minimum requirements for PC and more complex game worlds for multiplatform games. I'm not trying to console war here but there's a reason why Sony can pull out a games like R&C that look incredible because it's designed for higher console specs and there's a reason why MS is struggling with Halo Infinite's graphics that's designed to run on everything from XB1 to potato PCs and the Series X. If Halo Infinite was targeting the Series X hardware as its baseline I'm sure it would look way more impressive than it does now. Hardware matters and there's a thing like lower specs holding back games.
It holds entirely when the majority of PC users still use mid level entry gpus like the 1060

Series S will be perfectly fine and is for the target audience. And enthusiasts such as yourself aren't that audience so what's the concern?
 

dcmk7

Member
Mar 25, 2020
1,018
3,249
360
Shocking is it not? /s

But let DVDVIDEO tell it and "it's flying off the shelves in the US *hyuck*"............ and the rest of the world?

I swear the UK is Xbox's 2nd biggest market?
Maybe Jim Ryan was right after all.

"Based on our research, it’s clear that people who buy a game console want to continue using it for four, five, six or even seven years,” Ryan said. “They want to believe they have bought something that is future-proofed and not going to be outdated in two-to-three years.

“They want to have faith that if they end up buying a new TV that their current console will be able to support that new 4K TV they are considering on buying.”.
Seeing how it's in stock (seemingly everywhere) when sales of consumer electronics are absolutely surging at the moment during this global pandemic.. the picture doesn't look good.

I'm sure another £50 off will help.. maybe that's what people are holding out for :messenger_winking:.

XSX digital SKU, certainly wouldn't be in this position.

Maybe consumers want the best available option for their investment, that's expected to last them 5 to 7 years and don't like the idea of compromising, just what Jim's described.
 
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Banjo64

Member
Dec 8, 2020
2,251
7,174
555
It's funny you say that. Thank God I live in the UK so I can do some quick easy checks.

It is readily available in the following places RIGHT NOW:

Argos
Tesco
PC World
Smyths
Sainsbury (LOL)
Amazon UK
Currys
Ebuyer
BT Shop

Sooooooooooo............nah. It's there for purchase. I wonder why that is............?

Hey, you like it, that's fine. Enjoy your purchase. It's funny how I can prefer Nintendo but get called a Sony fanboy.............. says a lot about some of you here.

.............and I am on PC.
You do know it launched 6 months ago in the UK don’t you, and it become readily available to buy what, 1 month ago? You do know that at some point, probably in 3/4 or 5 months time, the Series X and PS5 will be readily available also.