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[HarryKS]

Because that already happened

PS4 PRO = Q4 2016
XBOX ONE X = Q4 2017

Sony was DONE with the PS4 after 2018 they had two E3's a row with the same games....GOT, TLOS2 AND FFR were going to be launch PS5 games

For various reasons that didn't happen but that was the original plan was Q4 2019 and the PS5 is the same system w/ minor upgrades

THIS PS5 has "problems" and they know it....and it will be replaced soon

Dude, come on. That's just dumb.

 

[GetemMa]

9TF?

It's a 10.2TF machine.

SSD is not a marketing compain. Games are moving to streaming to make take better advantage of memory usage.

All of this sounds like someone who doesn't know what they're even talking about. lol.

Games are "moving to streaming" eh.....well that's so interesting. This does beg the question why games developers are seemingly unable to adapt to the "move to streaming" to make their games run better on a system that is, from what I'm told, better at "streaming" than XSX.

But I do stand corrected on the TF. Sorry, The PS5 is indeed a 10.2 TF machine that can't hit native 4K at 30fps. Which is still not surprising because the GPU is too weak for native 4K.

I do wonder why Sony cheaped out on the GPU. I mean they've been dominant this gen. The PS4 sold at a profit very soon after launch. Surely they can afford to give their dedicated fans something that actually hits a next gen display standard, especially when the platform performance standard is a meager 30fps.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Games are "moving to streaming" eh.....well that's so interesting. This does beg the question why games developers are seemingly unable to adapt to the "move to streaming" to make their games run better on a system that is, from what I'm told, better at "streaming" than XSX.

But I do stand corrected on the TF. Sorry, The PS5 is indeed a 10.2 TF machine that can't hit native 4K at 30fps. Which is still not surprising because the GPU is too weak for native 4K.

I do wonder why Sony cheaped out on the GPU. I mean they've been dominant this gen. The PS4 sold at a profit very soon after launch. Surely they can afford to give their dedicated fans something that actually hits a next gen display standard, especially when the platform performance standard is a meager 30fps.

You're basing this nonsense on hearsay for a game that's still a year+ from release

Just stop

 

[LazyParrot]

Because that already happened

That's not the same thing. The PS4 Pro wasn't released as a "killer" for anything. Sony had already won the generation at that point, and there was nothing Microsoft could do about it. Even after Xbox One X released in 2017 there was zero need for Sony to "kill" it, because its release had no effect on PS4 sales numbers.

Sony was DONE with the PS4 after 2018 they had two E3's a row with the same games....GOT, TLOS2 AND FFR were going to be launch PS5 games

Given the hardware differences between PS4 and PS5 (or that mythical predecessor you say it was supposedly based on), there is no way games with scopes and development cycles as massive as those three would have seen a switch from a newer, significantly faster target platform to an older, slower one during development. They were developed for PS4 from beginning to end.

THIS PS5 has "problems" and they know it....and it will be replaced soon

The only "problem" the PS5 has is that won't be the fastest console around at launch. But that's been the case for the PS4 since 2017, and it hasn't hurt Sony one bit.

 

[SuperGooey]

I'm sure it'll be fine.

 

[MaulerX]

Mat has seen both dev kits in action and says the gap is close.

Specs actually line up with what Mat is saying, unless there's some "secret sauce" that has yet to be revealed and PS5 is missing a lot of features, which doesn't seem to be the case at all.

The same dev kits that had the PS5 more powerful than the Series X just a few months ago? The same guy that went along with KLee on this lie? The same guy that said Lockhart didn't exist even though we have more proof today that it does? The same guy that never ever says anything new other than to agree and piggyback from what other real insiders have said? He has proven time and time again that he doesn't know anything.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

The same dev kits that had the PS5 more powerful than the Series X just a few months ago? The same guy that went along with KLee on this lie? The same guy that said Lockhart didn't exist even though we have more proof today that it does? The same guy that never ever says anything new other than to agree and piggyback from what other real insiders have said? He has proven time and time again that he doesn't know anything.

He's always stuck with XSX > PS5 in terms of power

And he denied lock hearts existence a year ago, back when yes, it's existence was very much in question

 

[Kumomeme]

well atleast they still showed the game running on ps5 despite being buggy and have lot of performance issue instead of showing old stable build but ugly.

 

[MaulerX]

He's always stuck with XSX > PS5 in terms of power

And he denied lock hearts existence a year ago, back when yes, it's existence was very much in question

He never actually said that though. If he really knew anything then why in the world did he let the KLee narrative go on for almost a year without actually correcting him? He basically agreed with everything KLee said. Then he acted all shocked when the real insiders said Lockhart was real. He never ever breaks any news. All he does is piggyback off of others.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

He never actually said that though. If he really knew anything then why in the world did he let the KLee narrative go on for almost a year without actually correcting him? He basically agreed with everything KLee said. Then he acted all shocked when the real insiders said Lockhart was real. He never ever breaks any news. All he does is piggyback off of others.

Yes he did

Even Insiders like Tom Warren ran with Lockheart not being a thing. Microsoft's plans were not well communicated with developers.

 

[JonnyMP3]

Anyone that doubts Matt or claims that he's just a community manager should probably do themselves a favour and check his Linkedin profile to see his actual credentials.

 

[DForce]

Games are "moving to streaming" eh.....well that's so interesting. This does beg the question why games developers are seemingly unable to adapt to the "move to streaming" to make their games run better on a system that is, from what I'm told, better at "streaming" than XSX.

But I do stand corrected on the TF. Sorry, The PS5 is indeed a 10.2 TF machine that can't hit native 4K at 30fps. Which is still not surprising because the GPU is too weak for native 4K.

I do wonder why Sony cheaped out on the GPU. I mean they've been dominant this gen. The PS4 sold at a profit very soon after launch. Surely they can afford to give their dedicated fans something that actually hits a next gen display standard, especially when the platform performance standard is a meager 30fps.

You need to look up the specs on the PS5 console.

Going with a faster I/O throughput is better than a 18% increase in GPU performance.

Both consoles won't be able to stay a Native 4K as the years go on and they will be going with rendering techniques such as machine learning to save on GPU performance. Native resolution will not be as important down the line.

 

[DForce]

The same dev kits that had the PS5 more powerful than the Series X just a few months ago? The same guy that went along with KLee on this lie? The same guy that said Lockhart didn't exist even though we have more proof today that it does? The same guy that never ever says anything new other than to agree and piggyback from what other real insiders have said? He has proven time and time again that he doesn't know anything.

Mat always said the XsX will be more powerful, but not by much.

If he believed in the Klee info then why did he make that claim?


You're proving that you don't know what you're talking about. lol

 

[MaulerX]

Yes he did

Even Insiders like Tom Warren ran with Lockheart not being a thing. Microsoft's plans were not well communicated with developers.

He didn't. Proof is in the fact that he never ever corrected KLee. And at the time he was a moderator mind you.

Tom Warren reported on what he knew at the time. So when new info came he reported accordingly. KLee and Matt? Kept reporting old news. Matt acted confused and KLee self banned to continue fishing in Alaska. At least his PS5 will run nice and cool there.

 

[Aladin]

sonomamashine For a game like Horizon 2 or Fable, i dont think even 4K 30 is feasible. It will be upscaled with a better technology, but internally it will have a low resolution.
Racing games were already doing 1440p 60, them doing 4k native 60 is not a big news. But for cinematic graphics heavy games, i dont think so. This leak is one of the many indications that might come our way. Lets see.

 

[tommycronin]

Wait you're telling me the game isn't ready to ship before it even ships?

 

[Mr Moose]

But I do stand corrected on the TF. Sorry, The PS5 is indeed a 10.2 TF machine that can't hit native 4K at 30fps. Which is still not surprising because the GPU is too weak for native 4K.

Huh?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

He didn't. Proof is in the fact that he never ever corrected KLee. And at the time he was a moderator mind you.

Tom Warren reported on what he knew at the time. So when new info came he reported accordingly. KLee and Matt? Kept reporting old news. Matt acted confused and KLee self banned to continue fishing in Alaska. At least his PS5 will run nice and cool there.

Klee was vetted, and Matt was never interested in getting into system wars over tflops. At that point its just better to let it play out until the systems got revealed. Don't mistake that with agreeing with him.

 

[Gamerguy84]

So the quote was from months ago?

OP you copied and paste the content, can I get a link. Im going to laugh if this was months ago.

 

[alstrike]

Nah it will look like a mosaic.

This could the "Orphan of the Machine" cover

 

[CatLady]

He never actually said that though. If he really knew anything then why in the world did he let the KLee narrative go on for almost a year without actually correcting him? He basically agreed with everything KLee said. Then he acted all shocked when the real insiders said Lockhart was real. He never ever breaks any news. All he does is piggyback off of others.

Didn't he also deny GitHub? Has Matt ever given any worthwhile insider info that proved true? Yet he & Klee were both heroes of the Next Gen PS5 fan club, actually he still is even today.

 

[Elder Legend]

Is this even a 2021 game? This seems like it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off in 2022. This seems like it would release when PSVR2 would hit. 2022 seems like it's when it would come out.

Resident Evil 4 Remake is 2022.

 

[Shmunter]

How ridiculous is the premise. Even if stated truth, reality would be something as simple as early development probably running some sort of Direct X wrapper just to put it on PS5 for the Sony show.

Giving this any credence is not flattering to the ol IQ in the least.

 

[DinoD]

Sony forgot to send updated power profiles to Capcom? All they have currently is : hey something moved on the screen, snail pace, real slow, sluggish and 27 fps extreme mode (only to be used with an ice-pack)

 

[MaulerX]

Klee was vetted, and Matt was never interested in getting into system wars over tflops. At that point its just better to let it play out until the systems got revealed. Don't mistake that with agreeing with him.

But he clearly said he was making a "guess". An "educated guess". He wasn't actually saying this as if he actually knew this thou. And never presented it as insider knowledge. And KLee matter of factly stated the PS5 was more powerful. Never backed down from that claim. Nobody with actual knowledge offered a counter claim until the truth came out. If Matt 'really' knew he could have just said "That's not what I've heard so we're going to have to wait and see". He would have come out smelling like roses.

 

[MaulerX]

Didn't he also deny GitHub? Has Matt ever given any worthwhile insider info that proved true? Yet he & Klee were both heroes of the Next Gen PS5 fan club, actually he still is even today.

Exactly. The GitHub leak said 36CU's for PS5. Which as we all know turned out to be true. I think he said it wasn't the whole story and implied it could still be more powerful. Super weird.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Exactly. The GitHub leak said 36CU's for PS5. Which as we all know turned out to be true. I think he said it wasn't the whole story and implied it could still be more powerful. Super weird.

And that github leak is easily the best leaked data we got and just about everyone downplayed it as stupidly impossible PS5 would have the same CU count as PS4 Pro. That data was leaked in 2019 and naysayers didn't want to believe it.

And let's face it. Having some faceless data miners saying PS5 would have 36 CUs isn't like an educated guess saying Uncharted 5 is coming. That's a pretty bold claim to say a next gen system would have the same CU count as a 2016 system.

And it was true.

 

[Dolomite]

PC gamer here, so I don't give a shit about either console. I'm might get a PS5 when Demon Souls comes out.

I hope some people will have a good hard look at all the magic SSD bullshit and learn what a PR campaign that actually was.

It really worked great too. Millions of gamers just switched their brains off and ate that shit up like a starved dog. "But Tim Sweeney! But Marc wouldn't tell a fib!" Yes they would. It's not so much lying as it was a slight of hand. They distracted you with one hand and hid what mattered with the other hand. I'm sure the futuristic SSD it will do some mildly cool things for about 10 games in the entire life cycle of the PS5. Otherwise what you have is a fast loading machine with 50% less CUs than the Xbox Series X. Of course it isn't going to be as good for Multiplatform games. Memory bandwidth becomes moot when your machine is struggling to properly render at 4K and it sounds more like the PS5 won't do that, which is not a surprise at all on a 9 TF machine. 4K (checkerboarded)/30fps will be the PS5 standard for most games. SO FUCKING LAME. Spotty backward compatibility will be the other black eye on this console from what I read from reliable leakers.

Regardless, It's about games fellas. Stop attaching your joy to this silly technical shit, especially if you are a Sony fan boy. Insiders have also said that Xbox Series X will have a lot of problems with being competitive in software so their only play is to come in cheaper and use gamepass as a cheap way to get people on the platform. But yeah, digital foundry comparison articles will be pretty one sided this gen if and when said game arrives on the XSX.

 

[GHG]

Yup. It's a-ok for Grounded (a WIP early access game) to be evaluated on performance and features. Hiccup performance and bare bones. People should know what it's like even if it's not the final game.

Nope. It's not ok for RE to be publicized about performance. It's not ok to tell gamers what development is like.

One is public early access and the other one... isn't?

One you can pay money in exchange for a product today and the other one you... can't?

 

[j0hnnix]

I'm sure it'll be fine.

 

[Ascend]

Going with a faster I/O throughput is better than a 18% increase in GPU performance.

How? Everything that is transferred through the I/O still needs to be processed by at least the GPU, and in many cases also the CPU. Having faster I/O with limited GPU performance is like having a car engine that can do 15k RPM but can't shift past 2nd gear.

 

[GHG]

"insider"

"educated guess"

Do we have a Bingo yet or is there more to come?

 

[Dolomite]

How? Everything that is transferred through the I/O still needs to be processed by at least the GPU, and in many cases also the CPU. Having faster I/O with limited GPU performance is like having a car engine that can do 15k RPM but can't shift past 2nd gear.

Stop. We don't do that here. No reason, and no objective truths

 

[Shmunter]

I'm sure it'll be fine.

More aggressive dynamic resolution scaling is expected on PS5, or more liberal use of upscale techniques vs XsX. That’s the TF advantage in a nutshell. Visible differences will likely be the domain of 400-800x zooms by DF.

Of course there is always a chance of PS5 taking the crown in parts with custom based hardware creating higher utilisation & efficiency.

Certainly scene variety and asset quality should go to PS5 wherever devs lean into the sizable I/O delta.


Not much to see here.

 

[DavidGzz]

Going with a faster I/O throughput is better than a 18% increase in GPU performance.

Mat always said the XsX will be more powerful, but not by much.

Are these contradictions? Seems like it to me.

 

[Elog]

But he clearly said he was making a "guess". An "educated guess". He wasn't actually saying this as if he actually knew this thou. And never presented it as insider knowledge. And KLee matter of factly stated the PS5 was more powerful. Never backed down from that claim. Nobody with actual knowledge offered a counter claim until the truth came out. If Matt 'really' knew he could have just said "That's not what I've heard so we're going to have to wait and see". He would have come out smelling like roses.

He has been right on the money. The statement you are referring to is from early last Summer and he is guessing - he is a person with dev kit access that most likely goes through various iterations - that XBX will have more horsepower. Sounds about right to me - not sure what you are on about.

 

[Elog]

Exactly. The GitHub leak said 36CU's for PS5. Which as we all know turned out to be true. I think he said it wasn't the whole story and implied it could still be more powerful. Super weird.

All he implied is that the GitHub leak was incorrect in terms of Tflops - which is correct.

Furthermore he stated that XBX > PS5 in terms of raw power - which is also correct.

Finally he stated that the Tflops number does not tell the full story - we only know part of this but given what we know about I/O this also seem to be bang on the money.

After this user having been so correct over the last 12 months, I have no idea why you feel so strongly about talking him down. That is not rational.

 

[DForce]

How? Everything that is transferred through the I/O still needs to be processed by at least the GPU, and in many cases also the CPU. Having faster I/O with limited GPU performance is like having a car engine that can do 15k RPM but can't shift past 2nd gear.

You didn't hear where Mark Cerny said that cache scrubbers are needed or else it would hinder GPU performance?

Decompressor being equivalent of 9 zen 2 cores?

6 Levels of priority on the SSD?


You can't have large chunks of data without the decompressor handling such large tasks. But you think that can be skipped because the GPU and CPU alone is enough to handle it.

Are these contradictions? Seems like it to me.

No.

 

[anothertech]

Know the dude. He's full of sht

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Are these contradictions? Seems like it to me.

Those are not contradictions. The XSX's GPU is 18% more powerful than that of the PS5, which is a negligible difference. However, the SSD of the PS5 is 100% faster than that of the XSX, which is a colossal difference, and that's only the difference for uncompressed data; for compressed data, the difference is even larger.

A minor 18% difference in GPU power would result in either a minor difference in screen resolution (3840 x 2160 vs 3200 x 1800), which would be indiscernible via checkerboard-rendering upscaling, or a minor difference in texture resolution or number of dynamic effects (e.g. number of NPCs on screen, number of explosion effects, etc).

On the other hand, the faster SSD of the PlayStation 5 would result in instantaneous load times (e.g. video of PS5 loading Spider-Man) vs load times amounting to 10 seconds (e.g. video of the XSX loading State of Decay), ability to load more assets, ability to load more unique assets (e.g. more types of NPCs or object models), and ability to load assets that have more static details.

 

[DForce]

Exactly. The GitHub leak said 36CU's for PS5. Which as we all know turned out to be true. I think he said it wasn't the whole story and implied it could still be more powerful. Super weird.

The Github leak had RDNA 1, 2000 clock and Navi 10.


Yes, the specs were better than what was originally leaked.

 

[Paracelsus]

Which one is PS5?
1. Strong hardware with custom architecture that can push it past the limits and usher us in a new hardware era
2. Exotic architecture to make up for weak hardware, it needs the brilliance of the first party developers to harness its full power

If it's the latter, then it's another PS3 because absolutely nobody likes exotic hardware, especially people that claim they do.
That didn't stop the PS2, but it is what it is.

 

[DavidGzz]

Those are not contradictions. The XSX's GPU is 18% more powerful than that of the PS5, which is a negligible difference. However, the SSD of the PS5 is 100% faster than that of the XSX, which is a colossal difference, and that's only the difference for uncompressed data; for compressed data, the difference is even larger.

A minor 18% difference in GPU power would result in either a minor difference in screen resolution (3840 x 2160 vs 3200 x 1800), which would be indiscernible via checkerboard-rendering upscaling, or a minor difference in texture resolution or number of dynamic effects (e.g. number of NPCs on screen, number of explosion effects, etc).

On the other hand, the faster SSD of the PlayStation 5 would result in instantaneous load times (e.g. video of PS5 loading Spider-Man) vs load times amounting to 10 seconds (e.g. video of the XSX loading State of Decay), ability to load more assets, ability to load more unique assets (e.g. more types of NPCs or object models), and ability to load assets that have more static details.

Sounds good on paper. I'll wait to see what DF shows us in head to heads before getting excited.

 

[DForce]

Which one is PS5?
1. Strong hardware with custom architecture that can push it past the limits and usher us in a new hardware era
2. Exotic architecture to make up for weak hardware, it needs the brilliance of the first party developers to harness its full power

If it's the latter, then it's another PS3 because absolutely nobody likes exotic hardware, especially people that claim they do.
That didn't stop the PS2, but it is what it is.

Both are using RDNA 2 architecture, but for some odd reason, people think it might be possible that it will be another PS3 situation.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Which one is PS5?
1. Strong hardware with custom architecture that can push it past the limits and usher us in a new hardware era
2. Exotic architecture to make up for weak hardware, it needs the brilliance of the first party developers to harness its full power

If it's the latter, then it's another PS3 because absolutely nobody likes exotic hardware, especially people that claim they do.
That didn't stop the PS2, but it is what it is.

The PlayStation 5 has been described as being very easy to develop for.

 

[dano1]

Do you work for CNN

 

[Ascend]

You didn't hear where Mark Cerny said that cache scrubbers are needed or else it would hinder GPU performance?

Decompressor being equivalent of 9 zen 2 cores?

6 Levels of priority on the SSD?


You can't have large chunks of data without the decompressor handling such large tasks. But you think that can be skipped because the GPU and CPU alone is enough to handle it.

None of that is relevant...

Cache scrubbers are for exactly that; cache. It has little to do with the I/O transfer speed. And not hindering GPU performance is not the same as increasing GPU performance. It reduces cache latency which can help the GPU if it is stalling. If the GPU is not stalling, it will not increase performance of the GPU at all.

The decompressor is part of what allows high transfer speeds, but has nothing to do with the GPU. It offloads the CPU for decompression, but the CPU still needs to feed the GPU from RAM, and both the CPU and GPU cannot exceed their native capabilities.
Priority levels on an SSD are again, exactly that; priority levels. Things with higher priority get loaded first, and the lower priorities get loaded later in order. This in no way elevates hardware performance of the GPU or CPU.

You're just repeating PR talk without understanding what is actually going on. But I guess we have to live with that. Just carry on.

I'll just say that if the PS5 is having issues at 1080p/60, it is either a devkit issue or a software issue. It should be more than powerful enough for that. I wouldn't be surprised if variable clocks are actually influencing this.

The PlayStation 5 has been described as being very easy to develop for.

Is that why this thread exists?

 

[Sony]

I think it's plausible that a certain build of RE8 had struggles hitting 1080p at 60fps during development. Not really uncommon to have game not performing optimally during development.
However, it's quite a shameful stretch to state definitively that the PS5 has trouble running RE8 at 1080p/60. It has more than enough horsepower to do that.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Off top but has anybody noticed the graphics in RE8 look noticabely worse than RE7 or RE3 Remake

New engine or what

 

[DForce]

None of that is relevant...

Cache scrubbers are for exactly that; cache. It has little to do with the I/O transfer speed. And not hindering GPU performance is not the same as increasing GPU performance. It reduces cache latency which can help the GPU if it is stalling. If the GPU is not stalling, it will not increase performance of the GPU at all.

Oh, so you worked on the PlayStation 5?

You have experience in developing with PlayStatio 5 dev kits?

No, you don't.

If it was irrelevant, then it wouldn't necessary at all.

The decompressor is part of what allows high transfer speeds, but has nothing to do with the GPU. It offloads the CPU for decompression, but the CPU still needs to feed the GPU from RAM, and both the CPU and GPU cannot exceed their native capabilities.
Priority levels on an SSD are again, exactly that; priority levels. Things with higher priority get loaded first, and the lower priorities get loaded later in order. This in no way elevates hardware performance of the GPU or CPU.

You're CLEARLY not even paying attention.

Who said decompressor has anything to do with the GPU? I never said it. I basically said they went better I/O performance instead of going for the highest CPU \TF count.

One of the most requested features for next gen consoles was the SSD, and they made it a priority to get data on to memory faster instead of focusing on the higher TF figures.

You're just repeating PR talk without understanding what is actually going on. But I guess we have to live with that. Just carry on.

You're not a tech expert and neither an I, so don't pretend to be one.

You haven't worked on these consoles. You're just fans of consoles like the rest of us that are getting out information from guys like Digital Foundry, RedGamingTech etc.

We know you don't know more than these guys. They went over this several times already, so I suggest watching their videos again.