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PC is finally the golden standard for gaming

kingfey

Banned
And what games that, other than RTS and maybe some strategy games, that consoles don't have?
Too many.
For example, valorent is pc exclusive.

Too many mmo, which have alot of users on pc.

All released games so far can be played on pc, while consoles can't.
 

DukeNukem00

Banned
And Ultima Wizardry were inspired by DnD and board in general, which if you wanna be technical about it, is where RPGs really were invented.

So therein lies my point: Inventing something is not easy, but its not hard.What is truly remarkable and impressive is sticking the landing. How much influence the things that Ultima and Wizardry did have nowadays, versus games that actually did it well, and its effects can be felt nowadays, like FF and DQ with the level up system, or Zelda and well, everything it did?

So yeah, making it popular is just as important as creating and depending on the case, I personally think even more important.Its like the difference between comming up with a concept and executing it: If you look at history books, things we have nowadays were probably "invented" far early than we realize, but we only really remember the products that were well executed.

And thats the case with the RPG example that I gave.Its no wonder most if not all, consider both FF and DQ as the titles that birthed the genre.Same thing for Goldeney, to an (faaaar) inferior extent.Yeah, maybe it wasnt all that innovative with multiplayer in its own, but it invented, or at least popularized split screen, which made multiplayer games, in an age were internet was an infant, actually feasible without hooking up several PCs to play through LAN connection.


The fact that you think Sir Richard Garriot, the Ultima series or Origin Systems is some unknown or that Dragon Quest popularized rpg's just betrays your lack of knowledge and console fixation.

Claiming that inventing something is not hard is just about the most absurd thing ive read this month. You're basically saying that the people who made something out of thin air is not as important as the copycats. Jesus christ.

You're not interested in hard facts, you just want to push the idea that a console, of any kind, is more than it is and was
 
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PC is shit. This coming from a pc gamer.
We get shit ports. Devs don't care about optimizing their games properly.
We have a launcher war, which each launcher is trying for exclusives, like consoles.
MS is shit, which affects our windows gaming, with their useless windows updates.

PC is superior to consoles. But in term of gaming experience, we are way behind consoles. I am not talking about graphics. But a proper game experience, which functions like consoles.
agree as a former PC gamer. However, PC shines with its potential for emulation (RPCS3, YUZU, CEMU etc.) and mods. So its a give and take, in exchange, PC gamers give up good ports and seamless experience
 

Nautilus

Banned
Yours point is that PC hasn't innovated in gamepads? Yea I guess, you can just use a DualSense (too bad most devs don't bother giving proper support). Mouse and keyboard are great for some genres and gamepads are better for others, PC makes good use of both.

There's was hardly that much innovation aside from refinement since the original DualShock, the difference between an Xbox and PS controller is minimal (Xbox just lack features the DualSense has and there are slight difference in placement and ergonomics).

VR is what took motion control to the next level and it started on PC, it's pretty much the only space where motion controls are still relevant.
Yeah, mostly how you controls the games, or how you experience them.Since Add-ons can be plugged in consoles for the most part, and doesn't end up being the standard experience of most players, I don't count them, and don't think anyone should. So in that sense, PC hasn't really changed ever since the mouse was introduced.

And I would agree with you, if wasn't for Nintendo.Nintendo is constantly innovating on how you perceive and experience gaming.And in that note, I will agree with you that Its very dissapointing how Sony and MS did basically nothing in that regard.They have innovated how games are delivered to the consumer but not on new ways to actually play(hardware wise, not in terms of software).

And the single reason that I dont group VR together with PC or consoles is because I believe it will become its own thing.I think Oculus Go is the way foward, and not to be tethered, in one way or another, to a PC or a console.
 
Man, I’m a PC gaming elitist, but what’s with this obsession with trying to objectively declare PC to be the best system of all? We get like one of these threads every week. You really think THIS one is going to finally end the debate and settle it once and for all?

It goes the exact same way every time:
“PCs have almost every game in existence and they have the best graphics”

“Oh yeah well consoles are a better value and less hassle”

“That’s bullshit I’ve never had to tweak around with settings much to run on my PC”

“Well I prefer couch gaming with a controller”

“You can use a controller with a PC and connect it to your TV”

“Yeah but the UI isn’t made for it”

“You just need to use xpadder and Steam big picture and it’s so easy”

“Well here’s a list of games you can’t play on your platform”

“Who gives a shit about those games? HERES a list of games you can’t play on YOUR platform”



Blah blah blah. Nobody in the history of video game forums has ever changed their mind as a result of one of these arguments.
 
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Klik

Member
Agreed OP.

After 4 years of playing on PS4/PS5, even though i'm above average in fps online games(cod, apex, bf5) i could never get used to aiming with controller, even after 4 years and probably 2000-3000hours on fps games.

On PC is just better, more fun and if enemy is better that just means its better not because im limited in aiming with my controller.

I feel like playing with controller is harder but its like driving a car with a thumb on your steering wheel. Is it harder? Yes, but that doesnt mean its better,its just more limiting..
 
PC is shit. This coming from a pc gamer.
We get shit ports. Devs don't care about optimizing their games properly.
We have a launcher war, which each launcher is trying for exclusives, like consoles.
MS is shit, which affects our windows gaming, with their useless windows updates.

PC is superior to consoles. But in term of gaming experience, we are way behind consoles. I am not talking about graphics. But a proper game experience, which functions like consoles.
I dunno man. Yeah we get some shitty ports sometimes, not gonna argue that, but the rest?

Honestly, the "launcher war" thing is something I've yet to understand. All I had to do is install another client aside from Steam, and that's it. It also seems better than having Valve controlling the whole market.

Haven't had any problems with Windows updates either. Maybe I'm missing something here? Also, you can use Big Picture or similar solutions to have the console experience on the PC, which is something I do and it's nice. (Don't really know about this outside Steam, but I guess there must be some other solution).
 

Nautilus

Banned
Psvr is a niche product, same for HTC vive.
They are targeted at people who has the money to spare.
Its a luxury product.
Plus they are used for certain games. Not every game uses these tools.
Exactly. Which points to my exact point that, outside of consoles and more specifically Nintendo, nobody is really innovating when it comes to controlling/experiencing games at a hardware level, including PC, as I have been saying all this time.
 
I don't think anyone would argue against the fact that Goldeneye didn't make multiplayer split screen popular
Oh so now we are talking about splitscreen uh, guess you forgot to mention that on your previous posts.

Nice goalpost moving fella. I'll put you on ignore, bye.
 

Nautilus

Banned
There are quite a few. If you look at steam charts of what PC gamers are playing:


CS:GO, Dota 2, Naraka: Bladepoint, Dread Hunger are top 10 games that are not on current consoles. There are plenty more beyond that.



I believe head tracking was first developed for FPS games on PC.
Ok, I do agree that Dota-style games are few and far between in consoles, even if there are a few here and there.

But I think we can both agree that they are the exception rather than the rule right?
 

Nautilus

Banned
Too many.
For example, valorent is pc exclusive.

Too many mmo, which have alot of users on pc.

All released games so far can be played on pc, while consoles can't.
All released games?Can you play Nintendo games there?Or (most, for now anyways) Sony games there?Pretty sure there are several indie games that are exclusive to the Switch or somesuch.I guess a few third parties as well, though I don't have a list with me right now.

And that's my point: These games that are "exclusive" to PC are few and far between.Just like games exclusives to consoles, the ones exclusives to PC are more of an exception rather than the rule, unless you count shovelware(that flood steam) as games worthy to be brought here.
 

8BiTw0LF

Gold Member
Weird Paul GIF by Squirrel Monkey
 

kingfey

Banned
All released games?Can you play Nintendo games there?Or (most, for now anyways) Sony games there?Pretty sure there are several indie games that are exclusive to the Switch or somesuch.I guess a few third parties as well, though I don't have a list with me right now.

And that's my point: These games that are "exclusive" to PC are few and far between.Just like games exclusives to consoles, the ones exclusives to PC are more of an exception rather than the rule, unless you count shovelware(that flood steam) as games worthy to be brought here.
1: emulators.
2nd: full BC for pc.

Steam isn't the only PC launcher. There are games, which are Chinese, Korean, Japanese that are pc exclusive. You need the launcher for these games.
 

Nautilus

Banned
The fact that you think Sir Richard Garriot, the Ultima series or Origin Systems is some unknown or that Dragon Quest popularized rpg's just betrays your lack of knowledge and console fixation.

Claiming that inventing something is not hard is just about the most absurd thing ive read this month. You're basically saying that the people who made something out of thin air is not as important as the copycats. Jesus christ.

You're not interested in hard facts, you just want to push the idea that a console, of any kind, is more than it is and was
Sir Richard Garriot and the Ultima series or Origin Systems IS some unknown entity to like 99% of the gamers.Take just one step outside of any forum, and ask if someone has heard anything about these things.Hell, the only thing I knew without researching there was Ultima. Now do the same thing for FF and DQ and see how different the answers are.

Copycats?Lol.In that sense, Ultima is also a copycat.Souls did nothing inherently new, all they did was bring back the concept of earning your victory through hard work(of course Im simplifying things) and so on.But Souls was so influencial, bevause of how well it executed things, that it birthed a genre. Executing something well is far, FAR more important than just coming up with an idea.Ideas need a good product to convince others of its potential.

You just can't accept the fact that, while PC was indeed invaluable and influential for gaming as a whole, consoles were just, if not more, influential.
 

PhaseJump

Gold Member
Consoles are convenient snapshots of customized, often low budget parts that offer convenience and a unified target for software to run stable for 4 years.

PCs can be that and more. Some of you motherfuckers arguing about innovation need to go outside and touch grass or something. Perhaps by the time you air out and go back inside, Nvidia and AMD might have advanced a generation or two in their reference GPUs. Perhaps by then Nintendo will have a new cardboard box filled with other cardboard that you can clip on to your toys, and earn a bit of clout when they offer to sell you pirated roms of their old shit. Shit that ought to have been public domain already to better preserve the industry.
 

Nautilus

Banned
Oh so now we are talking about splitscreen uh, guess you forgot to mention that on your previous posts.

Nice goalpost moving fella. I'll put you on ignore, bye.
I mentioned it like 1 or two posts before...

Yeah do that, and honestly you will be doing me and others a favor by sparing us your bias.
 

kingfey

Banned
I dunno man. Yeah we get some shitty ports sometimes, not gonna argue that, but the rest?

Honestly, the "launcher war" thing is something I've yet to understand. All I had to do is install another client aside from Steam, and that's it. It also seems better than having Valve controlling the whole market.

Haven't had any problems with Windows updates either. Maybe I'm missing something here? Also, you can use Big Picture or similar solutions to have the console experience on the PC, which is something I do and it's nice. (Don't really know about this outside Steam, but I guess there must be some other solution).
1: poor optimization, which consoles do not get that much.
2: too many launchers. Activision launcher has COD, not steam. Same for EA. It changed this year though.
3: windows updates I just tiny errors. Usually the sound gets affected by them.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
PC is shit. This coming from a pc gamer.
We get shit ports. Devs don't care about optimizing their games properly.
We have a launcher war, which each launcher is trying for exclusives, like consoles.
MS is shit, which affects our windows gaming, with their useless windows updates.

PC is superior to consoles. But in term of gaming experience, we are way behind consoles. I am not talking about graphics. But a proper game experience, which functions like consoles.
Truth. Ask a PC gamer how much fun it is when you have issues and have to troubleshoot? JayzTwoCents talked about how a motherboard BIOS temporarily bricked a 3080 Ti, until a firmware update was installed. Something that even advanced users would have difficulty solving.

PC gaming is special when everything works, but I know many who got tired of dealing with things like driver/windows update. Those graphics are pretty but I know I can download a game to my console and it will (mostly) work.
 
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Nautilus

Banned
1: emulators.
2nd: full BC for pc.

Steam isn't the only PC launcher. There are games, which are Chinese, Korean, Japanese that are pc exclusive. You need the launcher for these games.
1)Just jailbreak a console(I think thats the term?) and you can do that too with consoles, albeit it is a much harder prospects.But that's tecnically illegal(emulating, in most places anyway) and I feel like we were talking about native or official ports and somesuch.

2) That is indeed an advantage.

While I do have a hard time thinking which japanese PC exclusive game is worth playing nowadays, yeah they exist.But that brings us back to exclusive games and how both types of hardware have them, and them being more of an exception than a rule.
 

Nautilus

Banned
Consoles are convenient snapshots of customized, often low budget parts that offer convenience and a unified target for software to run stable for 4 years.

PCs can be that and more. Some of you motherfuckers arguing about innovation need to go outside and touch grass or something. Perhaps by the time you air out and go back inside, Nvidia and AMD might have advanced a generation or two in their reference GPUs. Perhaps by then Nintendo will have a new cardboard box filled with other cardboard that you can clip on to your toys, and earn a bit of clout when they offer to sell you pirated roms of their old shit. Shit that ought to have been public domain already to better preserve the industry.
And in the meanwhile, as we all take a walk outside to touch the grass or something, Nintendo will innovate yet again and revolutionize the industry, and other will simply follow suit, as Steam recently did with their homage to the Switch in the form of the Steam Deck.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Ok, I do agree that Dota-style games are few and far between in consoles, even if there are a few here and there.

But I think we can both agree that they are the exception rather than the rule right?

Well.....you already mentioned RTS, strategy, and now Dota. I'd say there are is a larger selection of simulation games as well. Of course, have to consider the superior backward compatibility catalog of games.
 
1: poor optimization, which consoles do not get that much.
2: too many launchers. Activision launcher has COD, not steam. Same for EA. It changed this year though.
3: windows updates I just tiny errors. Usually the sound gets affected by them.
1: consoles also gets those. Because of shitty devs, not shitty platforms. PC gets more specially from japanese devs, thats true tho. Hopefully they'll learn to code one of those days.
2: that's your fault for playing COD and EA games. :lollipop_tongue:
Nah but seriously, I've always seen that as a non-issue. Just install a new .exe and you are done. Besides, couldn't you wrap those inside GogGalaxy? Legit asking, never tried that.
3: really? Never noticed those, althought I'm not a "sound guy", so those problems might have just went over my head.
 

DukeNukem00

Banned
Sir Richard Garriot and the Ultima series or Origin Systems IS some unknown entity to like 99% of the gamers.Take just one step outside of any forum, and ask if someone has heard anything about these things.Hell, the only thing I knew without researching there was Ultima. Now do the same thing for FF and DQ and see how different the answers are.

Copycats?Lol.In that sense, Ultima is also a copycat.Souls did nothing inherently new, all they did was bring back the concept of earning your victory through hard work(of course Im simplifying things) and so on.But Souls was so influencial, bevause of how well it executed things, that it birthed a genre. Executing something well is far, FAR more important than just coming up with an idea.Ideas need a good product to convince others of its potential.

You just can't accept the fact that, while PC was indeed invaluable and influential for gaming as a whole, consoles were just, if not more, influential.

You being ignorant and ignoring reality does not mean thats how the world is. Richard Garriot, an inductee in the The Academy of Interactive Arts & Sciences and creator of the series that gave birth to the RPG genre AND invented the idea of choice and consequence, where you're not doing only good, but have choices that reflect on the game outcome. Instead of continuing to embarass yourself, why don't you broaden your horizons and learn a bit about the medium which you claim you love.

Start here:


Then continue here, just so you dont make a fool of yourself in the future when trying to sound as if you know what you're talking about. You will also learn about the adventure genre, which you also dont know a single thing about, but that doesnt stop you from making factually and provable incorrect claims over and over where nintendo just has to be this god that created everything.

 
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Nautilus

Banned
Well.....you already mentioned RTS, strategy, and now Dota. I'd say there are is a larger selection of simulation games as well. Of course, have to consider the superior backward compatibility catalog of games.
Oh yeah, simulation games are certainly bigger in the PC space.And BC is indeed unbeatable.

Well, my initial point was about the game experience and control innovations on a hardware level.But yeah, its beyond obvious that PC and consoles have their strenght and weaknesses, ans honestly saying that one is better than the other at this point in time is simply stupid.
 

Pedro Motta

Gold Member
PC Gaming is dead yada yada

After a long time, we can finally say that PC is the best platform to invest in regards to gaming. Despite the Master Race and whatever memes going around. The truth is, PC was always there as a gaming platform, but it never could get to be the definitive platform. Consoles were way easier back in the day, just plug & play. Then consoles got really powerful and really good (sometimes better than PC) online experiences. And when consoles were not so plug & play anymore, they had the best exclusives that you couldn't get on PC. Also most players would play games on consoles and their playerbase was always helthier.

In the last recent years, PC has been growing enormously, and kept getting more and more stuff. Nowaways almost all third party games come out for PC. All Xbox first party day one. Like 95% of Nintendo games get up being emulated and played even better than in its console. And even PlayStation first party are now getting in. Online is free and you have such a wide offer between AAA free to play games, cheap indies, platforms gifting games all weeks, getting seasonal offers every other month. Games being cross-play so you don't suffer from poor playerbase. And new technologies making your hardware last longer and more competitive (DLSS).

BUT
The Nation of the Bitcoin and Pandemic attacked...

And despite the PC getting the best of the best by long miles... It was impossible to get one without getting your anus walltet pounded. GPU, RAM and even some CPU prices were laughable when you could get a console for half the price of just one of those components...

UNTIL NOW!

Finally, after years, prices are literally plummeting.

And with that last wall falling, PC is finally entering its Golden Age.
I bet you had to update your drivers in the middle of writing this post.
 

kingfey

Banned
1: consoles also gets those. Because of shitty devs, not shitty platforms. PC gets more specially from japanese devs, thats true tho. Hopefully they'll learn to code one of those days.
This isn't just Japanese devs only. MS is also does this shit with their games.


2: that's your fault for playing COD and EA games.
True. I use GOG to combat this issue. But too much login is problem for me.
3: really? Never noticed those, althought I'm not a "sound guy", so those problems might have just went over my head.
Audios is not working for some games, when there are updates. Its pain in the ass to fix them.
 

Nautilus

Banned
You being ignorant and ignoring reality does not mean thats how the world is. Richard Garriot, an inductee in the The Academy of Interactive Arts & Sciences and creator of the series that gave birth to the RPG genre AND invented the idea of choice and consequence, where you're not doing only good, but have choices that reflect on the game outcome. Instead of continuing to embarass yourself, why don't you broaden your horizons and learn a bit about the medium which you claim you love.

Start here:


Then continue here, just so you dont make a fool of yourself in the future when trying to sound as if you know what you're talking about. You will also learn about the adventure genre, which you also dont know a single thing about, but that doesnt stop you from making factually and provable incorrect claims over and over where nintendo just has to be this god that created everything.

I think you are confusing actual facts with your own opinions.Yes Ultima exists, and yes, that guy is real.But its undeniable that the ones who actually birthed/invented/made it popular was FF and DQ.Because if you are going to play the "the first who actually invented" card, then we should give The Wizards of the Coast the credit, because DnD was, as far as I know, the first true RPG game, even if it wasn't an eletronic product.

Honest question to any user here:Do you guys really consider, or even knew, all of this?I mean, who talks about Ultima nowadays?Mother hasn't had an entry in 20 years, but its presence is still felt nowadays. Its pretty obvious to me that the one who makes it popular, or commervially viable, is the one who takes(most) of the credit. Atari and Pong are considered the father of gaming, but there were games before them.
 

DukeNukem00

Banned
I think you are confusing actual facts with your own opinions.Yes Ultima exists, and yes, that guy is real.But its undeniable that the ones who actually birthed/invented/made it popular was FF and DQ.Because if you are going to play the "the first who actually invented" card, then we should give The Wizards of the Coast the credit, because DnD was, as far as I know, the first true RPG game, even if it wasn't an eletronic product.

Honest question to any user here:Do you guys really consider, or even knew, all of this?I mean, who talks about Ultima nowadays?Mother hasn't had an entry in 20 years, but its presence is still felt nowadays. Its pretty obvious to me that the one who makes it popular, or commervially viable, is the one who takes(most) of the credit. Atari and Pong are considered the father of gaming, but there were games before them.


Any genuine pc gamer thats been around computers knows this. Richard Garriot was one of the most well known industry people in the 80s and the 90s. I mean, i keep repeating that this guy and his company invented the RPG as a videogame concept, from which every console rpg in existence takes concepts from, and you're asking if people heard about Ultima.

The reason you dont know about computers and its games and are under the illusion that consoles are more important is because thats what you played as a kid. But thats no reason to continue with the nonsense now. Watch that video, its 15 minutes long. And its about the birth of japanese rpg's. Educate yourself


Also, if you need more proof that people do know about Ultima. Have some random articles

 

PhaseJump

Gold Member
I think you are confusing actual facts with your own opinions.Yes Ultima exists, and yes, that guy is real.But its undeniable that the ones who actually birthed/invented/made it popular was FF and DQ.Because if you are going to play the "the first who actually invented" card, then we should give The Wizards of the Coast the credit, because DnD was, as far as I know, the first true RPG game, even if it wasn't an eletronic product.

Honest question to any user here:Do you guys really consider, or even knew, all of this?I mean, who talks about Ultima nowadays?Mother hasn't had an entry in 20 years, but its presence is still felt nowadays. Its pretty obvious to me that the one who makes it popular, or commervially viable, is the one who takes(most) of the credit. Atari and Pong are considered the father of gaming, but there were games before them.

You are a console warrior who doesn't know about one of the father figures of all computer RPGs, a game designer considered for decades to be on the same figurative plane of existence as Miyamoto; downplaying the contributions to better suit constant whining, thread bumping, and arguments with everybody about how important Nintendo is to hardware innovation, how great and influential it's totally dead JRPG series is toward being "felt", and your initial point is apparently that it's stupid to consider PC better, despite it factually being the end result in every metric if one were to choose that possibility.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Penny you've been saying this for years. This is just your 2020 edition. I'm satisfied being on console. I had 2k hours on verdansk. Imagine I had to spend them on shitty cross play lobbies with hackers and cheater's. PC players with their super expensive rigs we're literally tortured.
this
 

Nautilus

Banned
Any genuine pc gamer thats been around computers knows this. Richard Garriot was one of the most well known industry people in the 80s and the 90s. I mean, i keep repeating that this guy and his company invented the RPG as a videogame concept, from which every console rpg in existence takes concepts from, and you're asking if people heard about Ultima.

The reason you dont know about computers and its games and are under the illusion that consoles are more important is because thats what you played as a kid. But thats no reason to continue with the nonsense now. Watch that video, its 15 minutes long. And its about the birth of japanese rpg's. Educate yourself


Also, if you need more proof that people do know about Ultima. Have some random articles

Lets... just agree to disagree. For sanity of everyone involved.

But I promise I'll watch the video later.
 

Ev1L AuRoN

Member
Every platform has theirs pros and cons. The beauty of the PC is the freedom. You can buy your games from many different stores, and as they compete, prices are lower, you can use any controller you want, KB and MOUSE, a shit ton of peripherals: Wheels, Joysticks, etc...

But the best part is the community, specially the retro community.
 

Nautilus

Banned
You are a console warrior who doesn't know about one of the father figures of all computer RPGs, a game designer considered for decades to be on the same figurative plane of existence as Miyamoto; downplaying the contributions to better suit constant whining, thread bumping, and arguments with everybody about how important Nintendo is to hardware innovation, how great and influential it's totally dead JRPG series is toward being "felt", and your initial point is apparently that it's stupid to consider PC better, despite it factually being the end result in every metric if one were to choose that possibility.
So the guy is so famous and important, as much as Miyamotto even(!!!),that he was eventually forgotten?

C'mon.

I don't know the guy, and like I said I'll watch the video later, but if he was indeed as famous and his games as groundbreaking and loved as you claim they are, they would get more attention now than they actually get, wouldn't you agree?There are games older than Ultima that are rememberef more foundly or more vividly than that franchise.
 

DukeNukem00

Banned
So the guy is so famous and important, as much as Miyamotto even(!!!),that he was eventually forgotten?

C'mon.

I don't know the guy, and like I said I'll watch the video later, but if he was indeed as famous and his games as groundbreaking and loved as you claim they are, they would get more attention now than they actually get, wouldn't you agree?There are games older than Ultima that are rememberef more foundly or more vividly than that franchise.

Like i said, this is because you're a console gamer. A poll made in 2000 for example in a german magazine asked its readers which are the top 10 most well knowns game development houses. They were: Blizzard, Ensemble, LucasArts, EA, id Software, Bluebite, Westwood, Maxis, Bullfrog and Origin. How many do you know ? Id wager more than half you havent heard until now, besided blizzard, ea and id. Because PC gaming and console gaming were separate realms of existence then. So if you only played games on nintendo you would have the most gigantic blindspot regarding gaming that has ever existed.

I can also asure you with 100% certainty that those people that responded to that poll, nobody would have known what dragon quest is.
 

Nautilus

Banned
Like i said, this is because you're a console gamer. A poll made in 2000 for example in a german magazine asked its readers which are the top 10 most well knowns game development houses. They were: Blizzard, Ensemble, LucasArts, EA, id Software, Bluebite, Westwood, Maxis, Bullfrog and Origin. How many do you know ? Id wager more than half you havent heard until now, besided blizzard, ea and id. Because PC gaming and console gaming were separate realms of existence then. So if you only played games on nintendo you would have the most gigantic blindspot regarding gaming that has ever existed.

I can also asure you with 100% certainty that those people that responded to that poll, nobody would have known what dragon quest is.
The ones I don't know about are Ensemble, Bluebite, Bullfrog and Origin.

But that's the problem:Even pc gamers at that time knew about FF and Dragon quest, while few ever heard of Ultima.I mean, the source you are giving of a german magazine(so, 1 country in europe) of 2000.Second, and most importantly, if the game was that influential, anyone would hear about it, even people that played exclusively on consoles.I mean, the sims(Maxis was the dev) was originally PC only, but who hasn't heard about it?

And even in forums, not a lot of people knows what Ultima is, let alone the casual gamer.But nowadays?Who wasn't heard about FF or DQ?

And that's the point.Ultima may have been a bit iconic back then, specially Ultima 4, but it was always a niche franchise, that didn't manage to make RPGs popular. Like I have said previously: Pong is considered the "first" videogame and Atari the creator of the industry.But that's not true, tecnically speaking.There were other comercial games before it, and companies that tried to varrying success, but they never actually became popular. Same with Ultima.It was FF and Dragon quest that actually made the genre popular.

Hell, the stamples of the genre, such as Lvl, were created with those franchises. Don't know if they created the concept of a party fighting in a turn based space, but they are also the ones responsible for making it popular.GTA 3 is the one usually credited for creating the open world genre, but actually the first open world game was a japanese PS1 game that almost no one knows about called mizzurna falls.Does it mean that GTA 3 doesn't deserve the credit it gets? Hell no.

So yeah, making it popular is more important than actually just comming up with the idea, because the actual implementation of the idea in a way that actually blows people mind, leaving a legacy that will be remembered for decades to come, is what changes the industry.
 

DukeNukem00

Banned
And even in forums, not a lot of people knows what Ultima is, let alone the casual gamer.But nowadays?Who wasn't heard about FF or DQ?

Ive never heard about dragon quest until maybe 2 years ago ? And ive never heard about final fantasy until the 00s when the movies came out. And this was the case with every pc oriented country or area. Youre inflating some console titles above what they were and discretiding pc games because you personally didnt know them. You can make a poll on this website to see how many people know about Richard Garriot and Ultima. It'll blow your mind when you see above 90% of people know
 

Nautilus

Banned
Ive never heard about dragon quest until maybe 2 years ago ? And ive never heard about final fantasy until the 00s when the movies came out. And this was the case with every pc oriented country or area. Youre inflating some console titles above what they were and discretiding pc games because you personally didnt know them. You can make a poll on this website to see how many people know about Richard Garriot and Ultima. It'll blow your mind when you see above 90% of people know
And aren't you doing the same thing about FF and DQ?

And I mean, wouldn't the better question be what franchise is better known: Ff/DQ or Ultima? I feel like the answer is quite obvious, given that 2 of those franchises are alive and thriving today, and the other is buried on the ground.
 

PhaseJump

Gold Member
I don't even like playing Ultima. I grew up playing NES and had Dragon Warrior, and Final Fantasy. I didn't even think about PC gaming until Diablo and Quake were around. I still know who Lord British is.
 
'finally'. Ignoring the late 90's and early 2000's.

And it's never been the gold standard, as to have a gold standard, you have to have a standard, which is the PC's main strength and weakness; customisable hardware. At this point in time 'PC' should be the equivilent of 'every console ever made', when it comes to comparing games and numbers.
 

Dutchy

Member
My only concern with PC gaming is that I often find myself troubleshooting and forum browsing for hours on end just to get a simple game to work. It recently took me almost a whole day to get RE4 running at the right resolution and without my screen being off-center. And I got my "fix" from a 5 year old forum post with no replies.

My Xbox downloads updates while it's turned off, and makes sure everything works with the flick of a switch. Literal plug and play. It simply always works.
 
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