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Opinion Event Hype No More "Wait Till Next E3"; 2021's Show Will Define Microsoft's Prospects One Way Or Another

What's the most important thing you feel Microsoft needs to show this E3 for the masses (choose 3)?

  • Stellar re-showing of Halo Infinite

    Votes: 212 55.9%
  • Reveal and gameplay for Starfield

    Votes: 128 33.8%
  • New exclusive Japanese IP reveal

    Votes: 37 9.8%
  • New exclusive Western IP reveal

    Votes: 63 16.6%
  • Visually "next-gen" gaming exclusives (BMI, Scorn, Exo Mecha, Gunk etc.)

    Votes: 144 38.0%
  • More GamePass announcements/partnerships

    Votes: 81 21.4%
  • Gameplay from a new secret first-party IP

    Votes: 122 32.2%
  • Another major acquisition (WB Games, Sega, etc.)

    Votes: 51 13.5%
  • Announcement for VR on Xbox

    Votes: 22 5.8%

  • Total voters
    379
  • Poll closed .
Aug 28, 2019
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Were you around for the Killzone 3 debacle?

Oh hell yeah xD that was a disaster for Sony and I wonder how so many fell for the '05 trailer expecting that to be gameplay. That said, they've avoided such a fiasco since; Uncharted 4 was pretty close between the reveal trailer and final game on PS4 Pro IIRC, TLOU2 even moreso (and in some cases the final game looking better in parts than that game's reveal trailer).

They don't want another Killzone 3 disaster ever again and it's understandable why. In Microsoft's case I'm hoping games like Hellblade II hit very close to their initial reveals, just to cut down on folks complaining about downgrades.

I'm not very familiar with XGS output, cadence, and production, but I thought State of Decay, Perfect Dark, and Hellblade 2 would be very close to launch by this stage, because:
  • State of Decay launched in 3 years ago in May 2018.
  • Perfect Dark has been playable for many years now, according to executive tweets
  • Hellblade 2 is in production since 2017 or 2018, I think?
Especially for HB2 and SOD3, it's already been 3+ years, which is usually enough for sequels. Not sure why some are saying that these are 2023/2024 games.

Personally, I am not excited about SOD3, but I do want to see Hellblade 2 this E3.

For full-blown sequels? I think you need more than 3 years but then again it depends on when the sequel begins production. Some sequels start maybe 3/4 the way through the first game while others may not start initial phases until the first game is completed. Others still may not get greenlit until a decent while afterwards.

If the sequel is revamping lots of engine features and game mechanics from the first one, that will also require a good deal of time. So 3 years is more in the ballpark for certain expansion content; Miles Morales is a pretty good example of that, as well as the Lost Legacy standalone expansions, though at least one of those was only 2 years following the preceding game, not 3.

Ms have the warchest to pretty much decimate anything with the amount of first party stuff they are sitting on right now…it’s just a mater of when they are going to fire the barrage……this trickle a couple of first party stuff out won’t really cut it anymore….as gamers it’s gonna be a great time

We shouldn't conflate money with talent, though; statistically speaking at least a few of those teams they have should consistently turn out great results. However, the optimal desire is that most of those teams should hit that threshold, not just some, and money can only get you but so much.

Other platform holders both current and past have worked with a good deal less money but generally more consistent releases of high-quality 1P content for their duration as platform holders. Myself personally, if I were to rank Microsoft between them, Sony, Nintendo, Sega, SNK, NEC and Atari, it'd be something like: Nintendo > Sony > SEGA > Microsoft > SNK > NEC > Atari.

Why? Well because in addition to just sustaining good releases I'm also looking at industry-defining releases too and on that note I don't think there's anyone who'd complain about Nintendo taking the crown there. However, I'd say SEGA have had more of an impact in that area than Microsoft as well, considering games like Outrun, Virtua Fighter, Daytona, VF2 & 3, Sonic, Phantasy Star Online etc. revolutionized certain gaming genres or in some cases, were graphical powerhouses (and in cases like VF3 on the Model 3 arcade board arguably the best-looking game on a technical level PERIOD) in the entire industry for a little while.

IP-wise outside of Halo and arguably Gears (because initially that was an Epic IP) I don't think Microsoft has had too many industry-defining moments in terms of 1P software, but that is NOT the same thing as saying they've had no good internal 1P software because they clearly have (Crackdown 1 & 2, Forza, Flight Simulator, Gears 5 etc.). That of course goes up even further in taking 3P exclusives basically treated like 1P especially in the 360 era, but that's overly complicating the argument.

So maybe the warchest going forward will make a difference and we'll not only get a better consistency of good 1P content but more industry-leading great 1P content as well. But traditionally, Nintendo, Sony, and SEGA...they've been able to have more on that latter front with less money to work with (especially in SEGA's case), and depending on how far you go back that's still the case even accounting for inflation. It's part of the reason I'm actually not too interested in yet more Xbox new AAA game rumors or the such; I want to see results from at least a few of the games they've ALREADY announced and shown off, because seeing (and playing) is believing ;)

How many more posts like this are there going to be? They have 23 plus studios! Much more than Sony or Nintendo, they are as far away from the Xbox One generation as one could possibly be.

Not much else to say here other than what I was just saying, i.e Quantity != Quality.

Keep hearing about all these studios Microsoft's has now but that's not really the issue at all anymore.

The argument isn't whether or not they can produce enough content at some undetermined time in the future, it's whether or not they can do it before customers get sick of fucking waiting. It's the impact of that content not being there at launch. It's about already being outsold in hardware 2 to 1 and the lack of momentum against their biggest competitor because of software issues. It's the impact of not having content clearly laid out for the foreseeable future.

To me it's pretty simple. If the games come too late (my argument is they are already too late) it will have a negative impact on their ability to build and maintain momentum into this gen. It's been 6 months and no 1st party exclusives to speak of. Meanwhile their competitor is releasing solid game after game after game.

Spin it anyway you like, they might have enough studios now, but they still very much have a software timing problem.

Yep, it is the timing that is very important here. Say Halo Infinite is a disappoint (I don't think it will be in fact I think it'll be very good since they've got Joseph Staten back but we'll see) and Starfield isn't as polished as it should be. Let's say some of these upcoming 3P exclusives don't quite hit (i.e they're more like The Medium) and expected heavy hitters like Hellblade II and Avowed really are 2023 releases...

By that time only the most faithful are going to be waiting around patiently, others will have moved on. As an example the SEGA Saturn actually got quite a lot of its best games in 1998, roughly three years after the system came out in America. But by then it was too late; PlayStation cemented itself (and arguably had its best year software-wise in 1998 as well) and N64 was cleaning up after the marketshare SEGA left behind.

I don't want that happening with Xbox because even if generations are longer now, that cementing of users in install bases and ecosystems is very real and doesn't take too long to start before the snowball of momentum carries onward. And I'm one of the folks who feels that in spite of some messaging from Microsoft, console sales at least for the next few years WILL matter because native hardware will remain the best way of enjoying GamePass until cloud streaming tech and data plans in places like America both improve to a wider degree and more affordable means (for game streaming-friendly internet service and quality modems/routers).

Now that I think about it in some ways XBO's last year reminds me of the Saturn's in the West; the system was technically still available but it was clear to see a need to move onwards and mindshare-wise competitors (Sony and Nintendo) just ate up almost everything. We also know that Dreamcast saw a lot of great 1P support almost from jump but especially in year 2000, roughly a year or so after the Japanese launch.

If there's any hopeful patterns of similarity between the two, we should start getting some great 1P (or timed/full 3P exclusive partnership) gaming content from MS starting late Summer into the Fall, and particularly picking up in 2022. Which means if we're going to see a glimpse of that incoming, it should preferably start with E3 in two weeks. And I already said what I think needs to happen to really help bring that forth in the OP.

temper expectations and saying that everything will be "meh" are two different things ...the reality is that halo infinite will probably be the game that will sell the most so far on any new console.

I dunno about that, unless Halo Infinite is just a massive revolution for the IP. Can't recall how many copies Halo 5 and MCC sold on XBO and PC, but I do remember seeing MCC reached 10 million players on PC recently. 10 million players != 10 million copies sold, though. At best it is very near that but we simply don't know.

In any case, it would still be a ways off from Uncharted 4, God of War and especially SpiderMan 2018 which in the latter's case has actually sold 2x that number as copies to customers.

I thought they have sold almost every unit they have made. If they had more 1st party software would they have sold more than what they already had? Also the virus seems to have impacted them far more than Sony so that also seems to have affected their software output. Developers had already complained about the state of their GDK initially, which was overhauled to make software for three different platforms easier, which is something no other platform holder had to deal with. They had several unique situations that affected their business. I'm willing to see what e3 has before making any conclusions.

The question then is why did it impact Microsoft much more than Sony? And we aren't even talking about the whole of the companies because Sony's movie division got royally screwed over due to COVID (I would also argue do to the increased flux of work done online therein needing cloud systems and services Microsoft as a whole weathered COVID very well especially when you look at their revenue figures for 2020), just the gaming divisions.

Outside of owned internal teams I think it's fair to say Sony's gaming division is bigger than Microsoft's Xbox division or at least has been that way for a long while, yet still they were able to have 1P content in a timely fashion for their new console whereas Microsoft didn't. Why is that? It's a good question worth asking IMHO, and I think the answer comes down to upper divisional management, or lack thereof. That can also transpire to lack of communication or contingency plans. Maybe the fact several of Microsoft's new studios were still settling in and hiring up to the point of the lockdowns also meant they were still slow in getting up to speed on their projects, so perhaps they could've went about that a bit differently?

After all when you hire new people, even industry professionals, they need a period to get acclimated with the workflow of the new place, the corporate culture, and get up to speed on where the project is at and what needs to be done. For every new addition there's at least a bit from the rest of the team that has to be taken away from their focus on the project to initiate the new hire for a bit, one way or another, directly or indirectly. I don't work in the industry so I can't say this from experience, but it just seems like a logical thing that would've been done.

Xbox is being Xbox, which is why this thread even exists.

Lol damn, well that is one way to retort I suppose.
 

MonarchJT

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Sep 25, 2020
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That is more like a possibility and over along period of time. I'm actually not to familiar but has halo or gears of war come close to selling as much as uncharted, last of us, or spiderman last gen. If not would the inclusion of pc be enough to surpass those sales for this gen.


Cool, so they created a console but didn't have any games for it. Yes, I know they acquired tons of studios if not for that good news the outlook for xbox would be looking even more terrible right now. I don't even know why I'm arguing about this. Pretty much it is just a matter of wait for E3 right now. Will they be able to show the goods this time with actual release windows or will it be another cg-fest. E3 needs to hurry up. I'm actually curious over so many publishers right now from Capcom, to squareenix, to has Sony blown their load too soon, to what in the world is Nintendo doing, and to will Microsoft show the goods this E3.
i was talking about games that have been launched and will be on the market during the launch of halo. or dark souls ..rachet and spiderman (Miles morales) I don't think any of these can intimidate halo in the least, At least as far as sales are concerned
 

Three

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Oct 26, 2014
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MS treats their games like they treat their other software. They literally went into the Halo unveiling with the mindset that gamers would focus more on the gameplay and would ignore the work in progress graphics understanding that it was just a demo.

Sony develops demos with the purpose of wowing consumers. They are heavily scripted slices with disclaimers galore. They are more trailer-like in their presentation.
They were about to launch the thing in that state. They delayed it after the craig meme. Did Halo: MCC teach you nothing?
 
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NahaNago

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i was talking about games that have been launched and will be on the market during the launch of halo. or dark souls ..rachet and spiderman (Miles morales) I don't think any of these can intimidate halo in the least, At least as far as sales are concerned
It will definitely surpass demon souls. I don't really know how ratchet will sell. The game looks great and the opinions I've seen are positive so I could easily see it selling a couple million. Spiderman morales I'm more doubtful on. I've read that morales surpassed last of us 2 and ghost of tsushima in the u.s in sales. The problem with talking about halo sales is that gamepass will also definitely be an issue when comparing sales numbers. What are good numbers for halo?
 
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Yep we have had this same thread for like 5 or 6 years now. If its isnt 'Microsoft are doomed if they dont have a good E3' (which is funny as probably 80% of console owners probably dont even watch E3), it will be 'If Xbox dont show off 50 AAA games with 100mil budgets, they had a bad E3'.
Basically say something they know isnt going to happen so they can say 'see i told you, they had a terrible E3. Xbox is doomed, Nadella is going to drop the division'.
Its so tiresome at this point lol.:messenger_tears_of_joy:
If Playstation or Nintendo had a bad E3, it barely matters as they still have the games to fall back on. We don't mention E3 fo fun, we mention E3 because that is what Xbox got left to impress people this current gen before they fall too far behind.
 
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quest

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Oh hell yeah xD that was a disaster for Sony and I wonder how so many fell for the '05 trailer expecting that to be gameplay. That said, they've avoided such a fiasco since; Uncharted 4 was pretty close between the reveal trailer and final game on PS4 Pro IIRC, TLOU2 even moreso (and in some cases the final game looking better in parts than that game's reveal trailer).

They don't want another Killzone 3 disaster ever again and it's understandable why. In Microsoft's case I'm hoping games like Hellblade II hit very close to their initial reveals, just to cut down on folks complaining about downgrades.



For full-blown sequels? I think you need more than 3 years but then again it depends on when the sequel begins production. Some sequels start maybe 3/4 the way through the first game while others may not start initial phases until the first game is completed. Others still may not get greenlit until a decent while afterwards.

If the sequel is revamping lots of engine features and game mechanics from the first one, that will also require a good deal of time. So 3 years is more in the ballpark for certain expansion content; Miles Morales is a pretty good example of that, as well as the Lost Legacy standalone expansions, though at least one of those was only 2 years following the preceding game, not 3.



We shouldn't conflate money with talent, though; statistically speaking at least a few of those teams they have should consistently turn out great results. However, the optimal desire is that most of those teams should hit that threshold, not just some, and money can only get you but so much.

Other platform holders both current and past have worked with a good deal less money but generally more consistent releases of high-quality 1P content for their duration as platform holders. Myself personally, if I were to rank Microsoft between them, Sony, Nintendo, Sega, SNK, NEC and Atari, it'd be something like: Nintendo > Sony > SEGA > Microsoft > SNK > NEC > Atari.

Why? Well because in addition to just sustaining good releases I'm also looking at industry-defining releases too and on that note I don't think there's anyone who'd complain about Nintendo taking the crown there. However, I'd say SEGA have had more of an impact in that area than Microsoft as well, considering games like Outrun, Virtua Fighter, Daytona, VF2 & 3, Sonic, Phantasy Star Online etc. revolutionized certain gaming genres or in some cases, were graphical powerhouses (and in cases like VF3 on the Model 3 arcade board arguably the best-looking game on a technical level PERIOD) in the entire industry for a little while.

IP-wise outside of Halo and arguably Gears (because initially that was an Epic IP) I don't think Microsoft has had too many industry-defining moments in terms of 1P software, but that is NOT the same thing as saying they've had no good internal 1P software because they clearly have (Crackdown 1 & 2, Forza, Flight Simulator, Gears 5 etc.). That of course goes up even further in taking 3P exclusives basically treated like 1P especially in the 360 era, but that's overly complicating the argument.

So maybe the warchest going forward will make a difference and we'll not only get a better consistency of good 1P content but more industry-leading great 1P content as well. But traditionally, Nintendo, Sony, and SEGA...they've been able to have more on that latter front with less money to work with (especially in SEGA's case), and depending on how far you go back that's still the case even accounting for inflation. It's part of the reason I'm actually not too interested in yet more Xbox new AAA game rumors or the such; I want to see results from at least a few of the games they've ALREADY announced and shown off, because seeing (and playing) is believing ;)



Not much else to say here other than what I was just saying, i.e Quantity != Quality.



Yep, it is the timing that is very important here. Say Halo Infinite is a disappoint (I don't think it will be in fact I think it'll be very good since they've got Joseph Staten back but we'll see) and Starfield isn't as polished as it should be. Let's say some of these upcoming 3P exclusives don't quite hit (i.e they're more like The Medium) and expected heavy hitters like Hellblade II and Avowed really are 2023 releases...

By that time only the most faithful are going to be waiting around patiently, others will have moved on. As an example the SEGA Saturn actually got quite a lot of its best games in 1998, roughly three years after the system came out in America. But by then it was too late; PlayStation cemented itself (and arguably had its best year software-wise in 1998 as well) and N64 was cleaning up after the marketshare SEGA left behind.

I don't want that happening with Xbox because even if generations are longer now, that cementing of users in install bases and ecosystems is very real and doesn't take too long to start before the snowball of momentum carries onward. And I'm one of the folks who feels that in spite of some messaging from Microsoft, console sales at least for the next few years WILL matter because native hardware will remain the best way of enjoying GamePass until cloud streaming tech and data plans in places like America both improve to a wider degree and more affordable means (for game streaming-friendly internet service and quality modems/routers).

Now that I think about it in some ways XBO's last year reminds me of the Saturn's in the West; the system was technically still available but it was clear to see a need to move onwards and mindshare-wise competitors (Sony and Nintendo) just ate up almost everything. We also know that Dreamcast saw a lot of great 1P support almost from jump but especially in year 2000, roughly a year or so after the Japanese launch.

If there's any hopeful patterns of similarity between the two, we should start getting some great 1P (or timed/full 3P exclusive partnership) gaming content from MS starting late Summer into the Fall, and particularly picking up in 2022. Which means if we're going to see a glimpse of that incoming, it should preferably start with E3 in two weeks. And I already said what I think needs to happen to really help bring that forth in the OP.



I dunno about that, unless Halo Infinite is just a massive revolution for the IP. Can't recall how many copies Halo 5 and MCC sold on XBO and PC, but I do remember seeing MCC reached 10 million players on PC recently. 10 million players != 10 million copies sold, though. At best it is very near that but we simply don't know.

In any case, it would still be a ways off from Uncharted 4, God of War and especially SpiderMan 2018 which in the latter's case has actually sold 2x that number as copies to customers.



The question then is why did it impact Microsoft much more than Sony? And we aren't even talking about the whole of the companies because Sony's movie division got royally screwed over due to COVID (I would also argue do to the increased flux of work done online therein needing cloud systems and services Microsoft as a whole weathered COVID very well especially when you look at their revenue figures for 2020), just the gaming divisions.

Outside of owned internal teams I think it's fair to say Sony's gaming division is bigger than Microsoft's Xbox division or at least has been that way for a long while, yet still they were able to have 1P content in a timely fashion for their new console whereas Microsoft didn't. Why is that? It's a good question worth asking IMHO, and I think the answer comes down to upper divisional management, or lack thereof. That can also transpire to lack of communication or contingency plans. Maybe the fact several of Microsoft's new studios were still settling in and hiring up to the point of the lockdowns also meant they were still slow in getting up to speed on their projects, so perhaps they could've went about that a bit differently?

After all when you hire new people, even industry professionals, they need a period to get acclimated with the workflow of the new place, the corporate culture, and get up to speed on where the project is at and what needs to be done. For every new addition there's at least a bit from the rest of the team that has to be taken away from their focus on the project to initiate the new hire for a bit, one way or another, directly or indirectly. I don't work in the industry so I can't say this from experience, but it just seems like a logical thing that would've been done.



Lol damn, well that is one way to retort I suppose.

How many flipping times do we need to go over this until 2018 because of budget cuts the Xbox division really had 4-5 teams that's it. Insomniac has 2 ffs the division was left to die until gamepass caught the eye of the ceo. So from 2018 you have had the rebuilding of the first party studios from pathetic numbers but it takes time many of the new studios had games under contract. It's not like you buy a studio and you get a next-gen exclusive day later. Does it suck waiting sure is it worse than not fixing the issue hell no.
 

DarkMage619

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Well if you want to limit it to just multi-player Sony has a few offerings al biet not the greatest but its atleast something (Sack boy, Destruction all stars and God Fail(not 1st party)) If were not talking about new games on a NEW system why the hell release the damn thing? Also im a huge fan of what MS is doing with its back compatibility team and would also like Sony to put more emphasis on this as well (they are doing decent with patches) but not at the cost of NEW content.
Who says it's at the cost of new games though? You think MS has the same people doing fps boost and auto HDR, developing Halo and Gears? They are independent teams. MS pushing Game pass day one stuff, fps boost, and all the nice to updates to cross generational titles has eased any pain of not having brand new Series exclusive software. The new consoles are doing things previous consoles never did so there are a few reasons to grab one. Plus... I hear they could potentially show some new games in 2 weeks. Fingers crossed.
 

Heisenberg007

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For full-blown sequels? I think you need more than 3 years but then again it depends on when the sequel begins production. Some sequels start maybe 3/4 the way through the first game while others may not start initial phases until the first game is completed. Others still may not get greenlit until a decent while afterwards.

If the sequel is revamping lots of engine features and game mechanics from the first one, that will also require a good deal of time. So 3 years is more in the ballpark for certain expansion content; Miles Morales is a pretty good example of that, as well as the Lost Legacy standalone expansions, though at least one of those was only 2 years following the preceding game, not 3.
Yeah, makes sense.

I was thinking along the lines that a sequel will likely release in 3-4 years (which seems reasonable to me). If a game released in 2017 or 2018, then in 2021 that's already 3-4 years. It means that the game must be (should be) very close to release. If it is releasing in the next 12-15 months (which would make it 4-5+ years for a sequel, and that is pushing it), we should see gameplay footage of said games.

I was calculating the time frame in this manner. Either way, I am very excited to see some Hellblade 2 gameplay. If not now, then later. No worries. But I'm looking forward to it very much.
 
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Rolla

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How many flipping times do we need to go over this until 2018 because of budget cuts the Xbox division really had 4-5 teams that's it.

Do we have a source for this. I'm curious to see where it originated because as far as I can tell or so far trace it back to, is a podcast that's banned on era because the podcast host used to make homophobic rants... In the name of gaming.

Despite searching, I've never seen anything that corroborates this. So if you have that info, please share.
 
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truth411

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May 19, 2014
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This is a stupid argument in the thread comparing one set of games to the next. Just wait until we see what games we have to argue about. Sony has revealed everything coming this year and next. MS has not shown everything coming this year or next. We should soon know, and then we can compare.
False.
 

Coolwhhip

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Aug 26, 2019
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This is the E3 right? Just like it was the last 10 years for Microsoft. They can keep buying studios all they want, until they show some gamez that blow people away and, you know, release them. It will just be empty promises.
 
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im gonna go in with realistic expectations. i exepct to see atleast 1 game that gets me hyped. i know microsoft have made many aquistions but its hard to get excited for one of their shows when they literally havent had a genuinely good show in over 10 years. can you imagine how gloomy things would have been without that bethesda purchase? 95% of my excitement bout xbox going forward comes from them.
 
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OceanGaming

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Apr 18, 2021
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I actually did not talk about 3rd party showcases in Microsoft show this year but they do have some good ones like, every 2 years. Last year there wasn't anything big so i am expecting some good multiplat game showcase. Please CAPCOM announce Dragon's Dogma 2 this year, i need that game.

Also, Elden Ring NEVER EVER. GRRM curse is upon that game.
 
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I mean even several months ago it was pretty obvious 2022 and 2023 were going to be the HUGE E3's, 2021 is likely going to be their worst E3 over the next decade (as all the studios start to ramp up), but somehow we're supposed to act like 2021 is the put up or shut up year?


Also for the people in this thread asking what all the new xbox studios have been doing the past 3 years and why they they haven't released dozens of games already


Recently released (or will release) multiplatform game (either due to contract or prior to acquisition)
Compulsion: finished We Happy Few in mid 2018 and it's last DLC in 2019
Obsidian: Released The Outer Worlds in 2019 and just recently released it's final DLC
inXile: Released Wasteland 3 in 2020 and still working on DLC
Double Fine: Likely releasing Psychonauts 2 soon
Arkane: Working on Deathloop for 2021 release date
Tango: Working on Ghostwire for 2021 release date
id: Released Doom: Eternal a few months prior to announced acquisition
Zenimax Online: Constantly updating and adding new content to ESO
Alpha Dog: Mobile Game developer

Studios either ramping up hiring for an ambitious game or a type of game they've never made before
Playground: Never worked on anything other than racing, so had to hire a lot of people to help with Fable (also FH5 likely to release this year or next)
Ninja Theory: Hellblade 2 seems like it's trying to be way more "AAA" than Hellblade 1, and transitioning to UE5, plus they recently released Bleeding Edge too
The Initiative: Built from the ground up in 2018, had to hire a TON of people
Undead Labs: State of Decay 3 seems likely to be way more ambitious than the first 2, and they only just finished State of Decay 2's last DLC in september 2019

Studios likely to be releasing a game soon:
BGS: Starfield likely to release in 2022
World's Edge: Age of Empires 4 likely releasing soon
MachineGames: Rumors are all over the place but it would seem like Wolfenstein 3 or whatever they were working on before Indiana Jones would probably be close to release this year or next
Playground: putting them again because Forza Horizon 5 will almost certainly be releasing soon


Wildcard:
Roundhouse: Have seen rumors they're working on a new game, but also have heard people say they're just a BGS support studio, so no idea where to put them


And then of the 5 first party studios Microsoft had prior to 2018:
343: Releasing Halo: Infinite this year
The Coalition: Recently released Hivebusters and are transitioning to UE5
Turn 10: Massive redoing/upgrading of their Forza engine
Rare: Constant updates to Sea of Thieves have taken up a ton of their time
Mojang: Multiplatform developer and only released Minecraft Dungeons this year


Obviously there's still Xbox Global Publishing but we don't know what partnerships they have at this point so impossible to say how soon and how many games they might have




All that being said, it was very obvious 2021 was never going to be the "end all the narratives and give the blowout E3 that Xbox fans have dreamed of" given just how many of their studios very recently released a multiplatform game (or just a game in general), but 2022 and 2023 are going to be nuts. Don't get me wrong, I expect that this E3 will be one of the best E3's they've had in the past decade or so, but simultaneously that will also be the worst of the next decade, unless there are some massive Global Publishing deals or an unexpected massive acquisition like Sega
 

Coolwhhip

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I mean even several months ago it was pretty obvious 2022 and 2023 were going to be the HUGE E3's, 2021 is likely going to be their worst E3 over the next decade (as all the studios start to ramp up), but somehow we're supposed to act like 2021 is the put up or shut up year?


Also for the people in this thread asking what all the new xbox studios have been doing the past 3 years and why they they haven't released dozens of games already


Recently released (or will release) multiplatform game (either due to contract or prior to acquisition)
Compulsion: finished We Happy Few in mid 2018 and it's last DLC in 2019
Obsidian: Released The Outer Worlds in 2019 and just recently released it's final DLC
inXile: Released Wasteland 3 in 2020 and still working on DLC
Double Fine: Likely releasing Psychonauts 2 soon
Arkane: Working on Deathloop for 2021 release date
Tango: Working on Ghostwire for 2021 release date
id: Released Doom: Eternal a few months prior to announced acquisition
Zenimax Online: Constantly updating and adding new content to ESO
Alpha Dog: Mobile Game developer

Studios either ramping up hiring for an ambitious game or a type of game they've never made before
Playground: Never worked on anything other than racing, so had to hire a lot of people to help with Fable (also FH5 likely to release this year or next)
Ninja Theory: Hellblade 2 seems like it's trying to be way more "AAA" than Hellblade 1, and transitioning to UE5, plus they recently released Bleeding Edge too
The Initiative: Built from the ground up in 2018, had to hire a TON of people
Undead Labs: State of Decay 3 seems likely to be way more ambitious than the first 2, and they only just finished State of Decay 2's last DLC in september 2019

Studios likely to be releasing a game soon:
BGS: Starfield likely to release in 2022
World's Edge: Age of Empires 4 likely releasing soon
MachineGames: Rumors are all over the place but it would seem like Wolfenstein 3 or whatever they were working on before Indiana Jones would probably be close to release this year or next
Playground: putting them again because Forza Horizon 5 will almost certainly be releasing soon


Wildcard:
Roundhouse: Have seen rumors they're working on a new game, but also have heard people say they're just a BGS support studio, so no idea where to put them


And then of the 5 first party studios Microsoft had prior to 2018:
343: Releasing Halo: Infinite this year
The Coalition: Recently released Hivebusters and are transitioning to UE5
Turn 10: Massive redoing/upgrading of their Forza engine
Rare: Constant updates to Sea of Thieves have taken up a ton of their time
Mojang: Multiplatform developer and only released Minecraft Dungeons this year


Obviously there's still Xbox Global Publishing but we don't know what partnerships they have at this point so impossible to say how soon and how many games they might have




All that being said, it was very obvious 2021 was never going to be the "end all the narratives and give the blowout E3 that Xbox fans have dreamed of" given just how many of their studios very recently released a multiplatform game (or just a game in general), but 2022 and 2023 are going to be nuts. Don't get me wrong, I expect that this E3 will be one of the best E3's they've had in the past decade or so, but simultaneously that will also be the worst of the next decade, unless there are some massive Global Publishing deals or an unexpected massive acquisition like Sega

I would wait for E3 2034, it's going to be huge.
 

tusharngf

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since 2011 they never showed anything good at e3.. i want them to show everything in this e3.
 
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If Playstation or Nintendo had a bad E3, it barely matters as they still have the games to fall back on. We don't mention E3 fo fun, we mention E3 because that is what Xbox got left to impress people this current gen before they fall too far behind.

Yeah, that's it right there. A mediocre E3 for Sony or Nintendo at this point doesn't do much because they have put out a consistent stream of high-quality 1P releases many of which are also very popular, along with ample and diverse 3P support. That is a lot of rapport they can fall back on (and there's also the nostalgia factor but that is something of a different discussion).

For Microsoft? It could throw off a lot of forward momentum because if they are a company that wants to grow their brand - and they do - then they're going to want to appeal to more people outside of the ecosystem. While one way to do that is through casuals and mainstream users, there's two factors working against that right now. The first is that those users typically aren't early adopters, the second is that the cheapest way Microsoft can deliver that content to such users, GamePass, is mainly reliant on on streaming and a subscription model.

The second point might not seem like much but I'd be interested in knowing how many new GamePass subscribers are strictly casuals/mainstream gamers from the mobile/tablet side of the gaming market. How strongly do subscription models play with them? How strongly does streaming the game via the cloud play with them? Because ATM I'm mostly convinced the majority of GamePass's subscribers are console gamers, specifically hardcore/core Xbox console gamers, followed by hardcore/core PC gamers and then some hardcore/core PlayStation & Nintendo gamers. Combined I'd probably say that accounts for at least 80% of all current GamePass subscription numbers which are rumored to be at 23 million.

If that's the case (and again I'm only speculating there), then casual & mainstream gamers of any type, let alone from the mobile gaming space, only account for a small fraction of GamePass subscriptions currently. That could change over time in terms of ratios, but I reckon it's about 2-3 years from current before it does. Which kind of highlights for me a possible mistake in weighing as much of the production split to Series S as Microsoft has or in some cases, even creating it they way they did (earlier I had an idea for basically a One S refresh on Zen 2 & RDNA 2 @ 1.23 TF, 8 GB GDDR5, microSD storage interfaced to same decompressor as Series X SSD, almost NUC-style size/form factor for $199 or possibly $149), because the market Series S targets isn't quite ready to jump into a new generation just yet and if they are, not at $300.

How many flipping times do we need to go over this until 2018 because of budget cuts the Xbox division really had 4-5 teams that's it. Insomniac has 2 ffs the division was left to die until gamepass caught the eye of the ceo. So from 2018 you have had the rebuilding of the first party studios from pathetic numbers but it takes time many of the new studios had games under contract. It's not like you buy a studio and you get a next-gen exclusive day later. Does it suck waiting sure is it worse than not fixing the issue hell no.

I know about the budget cuts and all but there's other things Microsoft could've done to alleviate the current drought of compelling 1P content or 3P system exclusives on Series so far. Look at deals Sony made with games like GodFall and Destruction All-Stars; why didn't Microsoft go out and cut those deals? Yes it's arguable of those games are any better than The Medium but at least there's a bit more they could've done with them compared to Medium IMHO.

Then look at other things internally; why didn't they have Ninja Theory work on Bleeding Edge a bit more and time its launch with the Series systems and build a native version for Series X and S? Why not do similar with Obsidian for The Outer Worlds expansion content? Why not advertise/show off Hivebusters a little more given how impressive it was? Why not have seen Sony coming through with exclusivity deals on Deathloop & Ghostwire earlier and outbid them on those deals, especially if you were also interested in acquiring Zenimax? Why not have a version of FS 2020 in development earlier on for Series X ready for its launch or nearer to it? Why not push harder for getting the new GDK ready in time or back-port its newer features to XDK for the time being that way game performance across the board could be more up to speed at launch?

There's a lot of legitimate questions that can be asked here.

I was calculating the time frame in this manner. Either way, I am very excited to see some Hellblade 2 gameplay. If not now, then later. No worries. But I'm looking forward to it very much.

It still feels like we should be getting at least a little Hellblade II gameplay this year given it's going on two years since the reveal trailer but yeah, when it comes is when it comes. As long as it looks as close to (or even exceeds) the reveal trailer all will be good, plus Xbox have other games they can show off in the meanwhile.

I mean even several months ago it was pretty obvious 2022 and 2023 were going to be the HUGE E3's, 2021 is likely going to be their worst E3 over the next decade (as all the studios start to ramp up), but somehow we're supposed to act like 2021 is the put up or shut up year?


Also for the people in this thread asking what all the new xbox studios have been doing the past 3 years and why they they haven't released dozens of games already

[...]

All that being said, it was very obvious 2021 was never going to be the "end all the narratives and give the blowout E3 that Xbox fans have dreamed of" given just how many of their studios very recently released a multiplatform game (or just a game in general), but 2022 and 2023 are going to be nuts. Don't get me wrong, I expect that this E3 will be one of the best E3's they've had in the past decade or so, but simultaneously that will also be the worst of the next decade, unless there are some massive Global Publishing deals or an unexpected massive acquisition like Sega

Then they picked a hell of a bad year to have a bad E3. People at large are just getting over the COVID hump, they want to be excited and stimulated and that includes with gaming. So whoever can sell people on that with things that feel near and tangible (outside of the consoles themselves which seem almost impossible to nab) is going to greatly benefit.

I mean just look at the reception Horizon: Forbidden West's already gotten. You put out some top quality stuff and you reap the benefits of it, that's given Sony and PS5 even more momentum than they already had. This is about Microsoft hoping to keep their own momentum going and growing and you don't do that with "the worst E3 of the decade" in two weeks time. In fact that might end up having a negative effect, not just to people already outside of the ecosystem but even some of the stalwarts within who might be getting tired of waiting.
 
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That was not the latest build at that time, but a demo build.
That was conflicting with the other claim that the build was rushed to finish on time for reveal. Regardless neither are trustworthy, and in any case Halo Infinite STILL missed launch for unexplained reasons. Even though every single Series X has Master Chief printed on the box.

If it was a demo build, the final build must not be much better for it to miss launch.
 
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What are you baseing this on?
When was the last time Halo won game of the year?

Halo isn't as big of an I.P. as it use to be, this isn't 2007 anymore.

It's true Halo is not the megaton it used to be i.e when Halo 3 launched (COD has mostly taken its place in that regard), but I think there's still a strong future for it if Infinite impresses in the SP & MP departments.

What I want:

-Halo Infinite exclusive Serie X/S-PC
-Trailer Elder Scrools
-Starfield
-New Headset for Xbox and PC with Halo VR
-Horror game by Kojima

Take out Elder Scrolls trailer and that might be pretty realistic...outside Halo Infinite being Series & PC-only; for whatever reason they still want to tether it to the One S, when I personally feel that shouldn't be necessary.
 

Negotiator101

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Nope, they have to prove that. They haven't earned the same reputation that Sony and Nintendo have.
Honestly Im not expecting a steady stream of games from them until 2024. Unreal Engine V isn't even out yet and it will be a couple of years after that to see big AAA games using that Engine.
Meanwhile Sony and Nintendo are not going to be standing still.
Heck if I was Sony I'd release Horizon 2 the Same Date as Halo Infinite (probably in November) to just boost mindshare.
What's UE5 got to do with Microsoft producing games?
 

Negotiator101

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A good amount of their internal studios are now using that Engine. Hellblade 2 was building in UNREAL 4 but then made the decision to change over to Unreal 5. ANd thats not the only studio internally by MS thats using unreal 5.
Have you any idea how long it takes to port a game over from UE4 to UE5?
 

MScarpa

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A huge disadvantage is that I think MS studios are more severely impacted by COVID than Sony

Sony studios are largely established with very strong leads, producers, processes, etc. Insomniac, GG, SSM, etc can easily get things done in a work from home environment because they know the types of games they are making and have a history of being very efficient.

Many MS studios are still trying to find their way. Coalition is fine, but the Initiative, 343, Rare, etc are probably struggling since they are either new or never had the greatest project management
This may be true but be nice to hear it from someone in the know. Any links or a source for that? Be an interesting read.
 

tmlDan

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Honestly it doesn't matter what they show, not until they actually RELEASE A DAMN GAME....like holy crap everything takes so long over there don't they have anyone in charge.

and, NO, Halo is not enough.
 

oldergamer

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Honestly it doesn't matter what they show, not until they actually RELEASE A DAMN GAME....like holy crap everything takes so long over there don't they have anyone in charge.

and, NO, Halo is not enough.
God shaddap. Stop moving goal posts
 
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Raekwon26

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You know, I initially didn't care for this event and had no expectations but.... not anymore.

I've been listening to a lot of the US gaming media recently (I know, horrible idea) but they have been hyping up Xbox since it's release in November as the only console and brand doing anything right and been putting out calculated articles and tweets about how their PlayStations are collecting dust and they just can't stop playing their Series X.

So, I say fine.

No more fluff. This better be the best damn gaming event in over decade. Anything short of a universal 10/10 and this event is a disappointment.
 

MScarpa

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You know, I initially didn't care for this event and had no expectations but.... not anymore.

I've been listening to a lot of the US gaming media recently (I know, horrible idea) but they have been hyping up Xbox since it's release in November as the only console and brand doing anything right and been putting out calculated articles and tweets about how their PlayStations are collecting dust and they just can't stop playing their Series X.

So, I say fine.

No more fluff. This better be the best damn gaming event in over decade. Anything short of a universal 10/10 and this event is a disappointment.
You should just stay in the kitchen chef and not worry about it. lmao
 

bender

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The first 7 months of XBox has been pretty barren but bolstered by Game Pass which is a great service. They just need to release games and stop peddling hopes and dreams.
 

TheGrat1

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Both Sony and Microsoft have yet to convince people to buy next gen consoles.

Nintendo doesn't though.
 

peter42O

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Voted -

- Starfield reveal and gameplay
- New exclusive western IP
- More Game Pass announcements/partnerships

Halo Infinite no matter how much better it looks is not going to change perception based on visuals alone. The game needs to be great in terms of single player campaign and multi-player. If 343 can accomplish this, then the 2020 gameplay reveal won't matter.

I'm not expecting Everwild, Fable, Hellblade 2, Indiana Jones, Perfect Dark or The Elder Scrolls VI this year because they're 2023 and later.

What I am expecting is a lot of gameplay for 2021 and 2022 games. Halo Infinite is a guarantee, Starfield, Avowed, Wolfenstein III, Forza Horizon 5, KOTOR 1 & 2 remakes, Project Omen and Project Typhoon is what im expecting. With Roundhouse Studios and ZeniMax Online Studios going either way.

Also, several third party AA game pass titles and a few AAA game pass titles day one. Expecting UPlay+ (vault games only) in Game Pass Ultimate in the Fall. There should also be some third party AAA titles being shown in general.

As long as I get a shit ton of gameplay trailers for 2021 and 2022 games, I will be very happy and satisfied.
 

Alan Wake

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Gameplay, gameplay, gameplay, release dates and next-gen graphics. That's what I want. I just bought the Series X and I'm sitting here playing exactly the same games I just played on my One X the other night. So I really like some next-gen exclusives this fall.
 

Kagey K

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Jeff Grubb can't get hyped and I'm convinced he has the Xbox logo tattooed on his anus. Temper your expectations a little bit.
As opposed to your PlayStation tattoo?

You guys should rub butts and see who wins.

it will be neither of you. You will just rub shit on each other
 
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bender

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As opposed to your PlayStation tattoo?

You guys should rub butts and see who wins.

it will be neither of you. You will just rub shit on each other

Real fans have the console named tattooed to their dicks. That's why people with small dicks love Xbox and people with big dicks love Playstation.
 

oldergamer

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What goalposts are you referring to? how am I wrong? Multiple people in this thread have said it as well.
Changing the importance from a good E3 showing to titles being shipped dude. Its E3. Its about showing what you have coming, nothing more. How you show it, how the look and demo.

Its not like ms has a problem shipping games. Thier problem has been not enough games.
 
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Kagey K

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Real fans have the console named tattooed to their dicks. That's why people with small dicks love Xbox and people with big dicks love Playstation.
Wouldn't Xbox fans have it just say Xbox when small and Xbox One/Xbox One X, Xbox Series S/ Series X when hard?

Plus they have room for console revisions at the top 1/3.

Most PlayStation fans can't even fit the word Sony on thier dick when hard so they skip a letter and it just says Soy. 🤣
 
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bender

Bending Rodríguez (22, 1,729)
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Wouldn't Xbox fans have it just say Xbox when small and Xbox One/Xbox One X, Xbox Series S/ Series X when hard?

Plus they have room for console revisions at the top 1/3.

Most PlayStation fans can't even fit the word Sony on thier dick when hard so they skip a letter and it just says Soy. 🤣

I don't think you understand how dick physics work. You are probably a small shower and not a grower. For your joke to have worked the the Xbox owner would have had XSX when flaccid and Xbox Series X at full erection.
 

Kagey K

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I don't think you understand how dick physics work. You are probably a small shower and not a grower. For your joke to have worked the the Xbox owner would have had XSX when flaccid and Xbox Series X at full erection.
No, reread. It has to say Xbox small and the tattoo fit it.

Like a mad fold in.

Check out my only fans if you want to know more.
 
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