• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Opinion Event Hype No More "Wait Till Next E3"; 2021's Show Will Define Microsoft's Prospects One Way Or Another

What's the most important thing you feel Microsoft needs to show this E3 for the masses (choose 3)?

  • Stellar re-showing of Halo Infinite

    Votes: 212 55.9%
  • Reveal and gameplay for Starfield

    Votes: 128 33.8%
  • New exclusive Japanese IP reveal

    Votes: 37 9.8%
  • New exclusive Western IP reveal

    Votes: 63 16.6%
  • Visually "next-gen" gaming exclusives (BMI, Scorn, Exo Mecha, Gunk etc.)

    Votes: 144 38.0%
  • More GamePass announcements/partnerships

    Votes: 81 21.4%
  • Gameplay from a new secret first-party IP

    Votes: 122 32.2%
  • Another major acquisition (WB Games, Sega, etc.)

    Votes: 51 13.5%
  • Announcement for VR on Xbox

    Votes: 22 5.8%

  • Total voters
    379
  • Poll closed .

MonarchJT

Member
Sep 25, 2020
2,249
3,281
375
Just because you have a larger install base doesn't mean folks will buy the game though. Do you think your halo game will surpass the switch's animal crossing? I'm pretty sure there are tons of games that were on pc + console + xcloud that didn't surpass Spiderman.

edit; unsure of the xcloud.
no but I'm pretty sure that it will surpass any PS5 esclusive at least talking about sales
 
Oct 16, 2017
1,689
2,722
405
Stop putting words in my mouth. Where did I say or even imply that Sony makes "fake trailers"?
You said Xbox has better trailers. I showed how Xbox's own trailers damaged themselves.

It had always been the case from the beginning, that Xbox was trying to show itself as the "big guy". The wealthy and mighty juggernaut. And that means they had the unfortunate habit of "letting their mouth write a check that their ass can't cash", as the saying goes.

And after multiple generations, this has been correctly interpreted as Xbox LYING, all the time. Because Xbox is not and was never a juggernaut. It isn't that rich, and it doesn't have that much pull in the company.

And yet, the need to boast about how good they are suppose to be, continues. And at this point the boasting has stopped working for most of us.
 
Apr 4, 2020
610
1,247
360
I didn't mean forever. I was talking about for the time being in this current period. There isn't enough of an installed base to justify XSX exclusive software honestly.


The only 1st party title they have released is Gears tactics. They won't make any Series specific software until this summer with Flight Simulator. There is a good chance that Forza will be cross gen. MS was never pushing to drop the X1 support. Sony was the one talking about believing in generations not MS so it's silly to make the comparison. They are playing different games and have different strategies.
I didnt say it had to be XsX specific just released on XsX from MS 1st party, seems you are really struggling here as your silver bullet is a moblie game that released 6 months before the XsX.
 
Apr 4, 2020
610
1,247
360
With so many games to play on the PS5, it begs the question why Sony fans are so worried about MS games. I mean it doesn't matter to you, why waste time just posting shit when you actually don't know anything? No one does, actually.
Well for me its because i want to get a XsX but i want their to actually be something worth getting on it first. Dont think so black and white everyone here isnt tethered to only one camp.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Daneel Elijah
Oct 16, 2017
1,689
2,722
405
With so many games to play on the PS5, it begs the question why Sony fans are so worried about MS games. I mean it doesn't matter to you, why waste time just posting shit when you actually don't know anything? No one does, actually.
When then maybe you can stop inserting Gamepass into threads that are not about Gamepass in return? You have your own thread for that, stick to it.
 

NahaNago

Member
Aug 29, 2014
4,357
1,621
525
no but I'm pretty sure that it will surpass any PS5 esclusive at least talking about sales
That is more like a possibility and over along period of time. I'm actually not to familiar but has halo or gears of war come close to selling as much as uncharted, last of us, or spiderman last gen. If not would the inclusion of pc be enough to surpass those sales for this gen.

They weren't ready with new Series software but on the hardware front they had a fully functioning system from day one. The things they did with back compatibility were unprecedented. Cold storage, internal memory expansion, quick resume, Game pass, and UI refinements were all well done. We'd just want to see new software from their internal studios and if memory serve they should be showing that in 2 weeks.
Cool, so they created a console but didn't have any games for it. Yes, I know they acquired tons of studios if not for that good news the outlook for xbox would be looking even more terrible right now. I don't even know why I'm arguing about this. Pretty much it is just a matter of wait for E3 right now. Will they be able to show the goods this time with actual release windows or will it be another cg-fest. E3 needs to hurry up. I'm actually curious over so many publishers right now from Capcom, to squareenix, to has Sony blown their load too soon, to what in the world is Nintendo doing, and to will Microsoft show the goods this E3.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Dec 29, 2019
4,013
5,374
540
Medium is a one year timed exclusive, right? I was hoping it was going to be more like silent hill but it's more of a narrative only game I heard.

Outside of the mood, I don't think it is comparable to Silent Hill in gameplay. I've only tried a few minutes of the game, it proved too much for my aging 960.
 
Last edited:

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Jun 1, 2013
9,022
4,060
850
Not really. Microsoft seems to value transparency over showmanship to their own detriment. Consumers are largely fickle, uninformed and have short memories.

MS treats their games like they treat their other software. They literally went into the Halo unveiling with the mindset that gamers would focus more on the gameplay and would ignore the work in progress graphics understanding that it was just a demo.

Sony develops demos with the purpose of wowing consumers. They are heavily scripted slices with disclaimers galore. They are more trailer-like in their presentation.
what year is this gif....everything Sony has shown is ...Captured on PS5....and says ...mix of gameplay and cinematics..... when possible.

How in the world is that not transparency....?

MS was showing Infinite gameplay running on a PC and lots of CGI trailers for the rest of the games.

?
Well maybe if the first two initial trailers for Halo Infinite were not literally just animated films that have nothing to do with the game and wasn't even made with the same engine, people would have been less disappointed at what Halo Infinite ACTUALLY looked like. Trying to argue that Sony show fake trailers would only work if you had forgotten about Halo Infinite's own early trailers. Some of us do not have Goldfish level amnesia.
Thank you.

Are some folks really trying to act like the SlipSpace trailer never happened?

Certain folks used that SlipSpace trailer to say Infinite would look better than lot of early next gen exclusives.

That we are actually having that exact debate about Horizon Forbidden West in forums is amazing.
 
Last edited:

Loope

Member
Dec 7, 2020
656
829
295
When then maybe you can stop inserting Gamepass into threads that are not about Gamepass in return? You have your own thread for that, stick to it.
First I don't have GP, second unlike you and the rest of the Sony fans here I don't go into Sony threads to shit on their games, upcoming games or unnanounced games. Third I only care about MS games, because I can play them on the PC. I don't own or plan owning a Xbox.
My confusion comes from the fact that many people that are here shitting this thread up, clearly don't plan on touching on an Xbox console, so I ask again, what does it matter to Sony fans if they have games delayed or whatever.
 
Last edited:
  • Triggered
Reactions: Flutta

Loope

Member
Dec 7, 2020
656
829
295
Well for me its because i want to get a XsX but i want their to actually be something worth getting on it first. Dont think so black and white everyone here isnt tethered to only one camp.
I didn't name names and I don't recall you shitting up the thread. Either way, if there are no games, just don't buy it. It's a free market.
 

MastaKiiLA

Member
Jun 11, 2020
2,405
4,422
410
Random thoughts from a PS guy here:

I think some of you are looking this through different prisms. Some people are commenting from the perspective of MS the console manufacturer, and what their prospects are in that market space. Others are commenting from the perspective of MS/XGS the service provider, which is more of a broader platform, which isn't focused solely on the console market.

As a result, I think expectations of this E3 differ between those 2 groups. Those looking at this from the console side might feel a greater sense of urgency, as Sony has already taken a console sales lead, and has a production line of FP games to further those sales. MS not having a compelling lineup for 2021 and early 2022 could have lasting repercussions in the console race, for the rest of the generation.

Those who view MS more as a service provider seem to view the swelling of MS FP as a sustainable long-term solution, and don't seem as concerned about the PS5 having success. GP is sufficient for now, while they wait for more games to come.

I think opinions on what MS does next month will vary based on these different mindsets. The question is, what importance is the console HW scene to MS' future in gaming? Should the Series consoles land with the same market share as the X1, will that be a satisfactory outcome for gamers? Nintendo will continue to do its own thing in its own space, so it's down to Sony as competition. Does MS need to compete with them on sales or not? I think that's what might be driving the difference of opinions in this thread. I don't know if either side is wrong, as they're both prioritizing different things for MS to be successful in their eyes.

Just thought I'd share my observations as an outsider. Interesting discussion to read.
 

graywolf323

Member
Jan 19, 2008
9,799
826
1,410
Richmond, VA
Keep hearing about all these studios Microsoft's has now but that's not really the issue at all anymore.

The argument isn't whether or not they can produce enough content at some undetermined time in the future, it's whether or not they can do it before customers get sick of fucking waiting. It's the impact of that content not being there at launch. It's about already being outsold in hardware 2 to 1 and the lack of momentum against their biggest competitor because of software issues. It's the impact of not having content clearly laid out for the foreseeable future.

To me it's pretty simple. If the games come too late (my argument is they are already too late) it will have a negative impact on their ability to build and maintain momentum into this gen. It's been 6 months and no 1st party exclusives to speak of. Meanwhile their competitor is releasing solid game after game after game.

Spin it anyway you like, they might have enough studios now, but they still very much have a software timing problem.
yep Xbox definitely has the studios now (and then some) but the question is will they be able to run them all effectively? hopefully so but after nearly a decade of "Wait for next E3!" forgive me for wanting them to prove it before I start trusting everything will work out great
 

Varteras

Member
Dec 5, 2018
857
1,663
380
Xbox doesn't need games in 2023 or 2024 or beyond. It needs them now. If PlayStation succeeds in its goal of a 50% market share from its current 45% and Nintendo at least maintains its market share of roughly 33%, Xbox is going to be squeezed down into a 17% market share at best from the 22% or so it's sitting at. But considering the success of Switch it could be even lower than that. A platform at a market share where both of its competitors are ahead by 2, 3, or even 4 times just doesn't have any leverage.

If for every 10 consoles only one or two are Xbox and the remaining 8 or 9 are Sony and Nintendo, that puts Xbox in a position where no matter what it does it is completely reliant on the other two screwing up big time. And even when that happened before (PS3 and Wii U) Xbox still managed to come last before the generation was over. That's why people want to see Xbox hammer it at this E3. Because it honestly is in danger of being irrelevant and facing another generation where only Sony and Nintendo matter.

Don't overestimate Xbox's first party. They have a mountain to climb and with leadership that has been questionable at best for a long time. Demand more from them and demand it now. Nintendo is probably gonna roll in soon with an upgraded Switch and PlayStation is already bringing the heat. It won't do Xbox any good to "show up" a couple years later.
 

Utherellus

Member
Feb 11, 2020
70
172
280
Xbox doesn't need games in 2023 or 2024 or beyond. It needs them now. If PlayStation succeeds in its goal of a 50% market share from its current 45% and Nintendo at least maintains its market share of roughly 33%, Xbox is going to be squeezed down into a 17% market share at best from the 22% or so it's sitting at. But considering the success of Switch it could be even lower than that. A platform at a market share where both of its competitors are ahead by 2, 3, or even 4 times just doesn't have any leverage.

If for every 10 consoles only one or two are Xbox and the remaining 8 or 9 are Sony and Nintendo, that puts Xbox in a position where no matter what it does it is completely reliant on the other two screwing up big time. And even when that happened before (PS3 and Wii U) Xbox still managed to come last before the generation was over. That's why people want to see Xbox hammer it at this E3. Because it honestly is in danger of being irrelevant and facing another generation where only Sony and Nintendo matter.

Don't overestimate Xbox's first party. They have a mountain to climb and with leadership that has been questionable at best for a long time. Demand more from them and demand it now. Nintendo is probably gonna roll in soon with an upgraded Switch and PlayStation is already bringing the heat. It won't do Xbox any good to "show up" a couple years later.
I really like your points and criticism.

But Xbox brand is not just console anymore. It's hugh mungus PC audience too. It's cloud audience too. Phone users. Smart TV users.

Even if Xbox had banger exclusives at this right moment, people would still choose their preferred way(platform) to play Xbox ecosystem exclusives.

Xbox console market share percentage would still be still low. Because of all those people who were given a chance by MS to play on platforms they want.

Its not 2013 anymore. Microsoft rebranded Xbox into "ecosystem where gamepass exists" already knowing in advance that they would lose market share automatically.

But sure, they must act as soon as possible in terms of AAA software and act in a most aggressive manner they can.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Varteras

NullZ3r0

Banned
Jun 8, 2017
1,620
3,973
525
You said Xbox has better trailers. I showed how Xbox's own trailers damaged themselves.

It had always been the case from the beginning, that Xbox was trying to show itself as the "big guy". The wealthy and mighty juggernaut. And that means they had the unfortunate habit of "letting their mouth write a check that their ass can't cash", as the saying goes.

And after multiple generations, this has been correctly interpreted as Xbox LYING, all the time. Because Xbox is not and was never a juggernaut. It isn't that rich, and it doesn't have that much pull in the company.

And yet, the need to boast about how good they are suppose to be, continues. And at this point the boasting has stopped working for most of us.
I did not. Your reading comprehension sucks.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: DaGwaphics

Varteras

Member
Dec 5, 2018
857
1,663
380
I really like your points and criticism.

But Xbox brand is not just console anymore. It's hugh mungus PC audience too. It's cloud audience too. Phone users. Smart TV users.

Even if Xbox had banger exclusives at this right moment, people would still choose their preferred way(platform) to play Xbox ecosystem exclusives.

Xbox console market share percentage would still be still low. Because of all those people who were given a chance by MS to play on platforms they want.

Its not 2013 anymore. Microsoft rebranded Xbox into "ecosystem where gamepass exists" already knowing in advance that they would lose market share automatically.

But sure, they must act as soon as possible in terms of AAA software and act in a most aggressive manner they can.
Good points on your end but something I feel is worth pointing out is that right now Xbox needs its console market in order to properly push their services. PC is such an open platform with a lot of competition. It's not going to be easy to crack into a market where Epic and Valve are already top dogs and there are tons of websites that sell digital codes for cheap outside of the deals those two give themselves. Seriously, there's a ton of places outside of Steam that do crazy deals for PC games. I've picked up a number of games dirt cheap.

I do not think in any way that Microsoft will exit the gaming market. There is way too much money on the table for that. What I'm looking at is the console side. I do not NOT want there to be only two real options. But if Xbox cannot gain more market share that's what is going to happen. That will also limit the influence of services like Gamepass. It will also bring into question how long Microsoft is willing to support a console platform they never get anywhere on. Their Windows Game Store is grossly overshadowed by current PC platforms as it is.

How long will Microsoft be cool with being largely irrelevant for several generations if that comes to pass? I don't want to them to go third party. I don't think that is ultimately good for the industry unless someone else takes their place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Daneel Elijah

quest

Not Banned from OT
Jul 17, 2004
6,185
3,180
1,695
Good points on your end but something I feel is worth pointing out is that right now Xbox needs its console market in order to properly push their services. PC is such an open platform with a lot of competition. It's not going to be easy to crack into a market where Epic and Valve are already top dogs and there are tons of websites that sell digital codes for cheap outside of the deals those two give themselves. Seriously, there's a ton of places outside of Steam that do crazy deals for PC games. I've picked up a number of games dirt cheap.

I do not think in any way that Microsoft will exit the gaming market. There is way too much money on the table for that. What I'm looking at is the console side. I do not NOT want there to be only two real options. But if Xbox cannot gain more market share that's what is going to happen. That will also limit the influence of services like Gamepass. It will also bring into question how long Microsoft is willing to support a console platform they never get anywhere on. Their Windows Game Store is grossly overshadowed by current PC platforms as it is.

How long will Microsoft be cool with being largely irrelevant for several generations if that comes to pass? I don't want to them to go third party. I don't think that is ultimately good for the industry unless someone else takes their place.
They wouldn't bother going 3rd party they part it out and sell or shut it down. No one is taking their spot Sony has taken sega and Nintendo out of the market. If Microsoft leaves to you think anyone really would bother competing with Sony?
 

Utherellus

Member
Feb 11, 2020
70
172
280
Good points on your end but something I feel is worth pointing out is that right now Xbox needs its console market in order to properly push their services. PC is such an open platform with a lot of competition. It's not going to be easy to crack into a market where Epic and Valve are already top dogs and there are tons of websites that sell digital codes for cheap outside of the deals those two give themselves. Seriously, there's a ton of places outside of Steam that do crazy deals for PC games. I've picked up a number of games dirt cheap.

I do not think in any way that Microsoft will exit the gaming market. There is way too much money on the table for that. What I'm looking at is the console side. I do not NOT want there to be only two real options. But if Xbox cannot gain more market share that's what is going to happen. That will also limit the influence of services like Gamepass. It will also bring into question how long Microsoft is willing to support a console platform they never get anywhere on. Their Windows Game Store is grossly overshadowed by current PC platforms as it is.

How long will Microsoft be cool with being largely irrelevant for several generations if that comes to pass? I don't want to them to go third party. I don't think that is ultimately good for the industry unless someone else takes their place.
There are rumors that MS wants to add gamepass on Steam. That would be fire 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
 
  • Like
Reactions: Daneel Elijah

Varteras

Member
Dec 5, 2018
857
1,663
380
They wouldn't bother going 3rd party they part it out and sell or shut it down. No one is taking their spot Sony has taken sega and Nintendo out of the market. If Microsoft leaves to you think anyone really would bother competing with Sony?
I mean Nintendo is clearly still here. Still being pretty competitive. They currently have 33% of the market and Switch is probably going to be the 5th console to surpass 100 million units by this time next year. Some of their first party games sell ridiculously well. Thing is, no one would have guessed that Sony and Microsoft would be major players in the console space. Both of them were surprise entries. Microsoft's gaming division was third party in the past though mostly making PC games. So they've been in the market before they ever started making consoles. If Microsoft thinks they can make a lot of money long term by being third party I don't see them saying no to that. Just like Sega didn't.


There are rumors that MS wants to add gamepass on Steam. That would be fire 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
I've heard those rumors and I'm really curious how exactly that's going to work. I'm having a hard time seeing how that benefits Valve who makes their money taking cuts from the tons of PC games they actually sell. They would surely require a cut of whatever Gamepass makes.
 

Calverz

Member
Apr 27, 2014
1,991
3,525
720
Ah of course. The yearly “Microsoft HAS to deliver this e3!!omgwtfbbq!!1!1!” thread.
We see it every year. “They got to do this. They have to show that.” To the point where their show is put on an impossible pedestal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stuart360

Varteras

Member
Dec 5, 2018
857
1,663
380
Ah of course. The yearly “Microsoft HAS to deliver this e3!!omgwtfbbq!!1!1!” thread.
We see it every year. “They got to do this. They have to show that.” To the point where their show is put on an impossible pedestal.
To be fair, Microsoft has done a good enough job on its own in the past hyping up their shows only to disappoint a lot of people and quite frankly their output over the last decade has paled in comparison to their competitors. Their market share reflects that. You've got a lot of people throwing their lot in with a $500 console that want to know this isn't going to keep happening. Right now that purchase isn't bearing fruit and people keep hearing the same tune. "Just wait"
 

truth411

Member
May 19, 2014
2,212
1,149
630
Ah of course. The yearly “Microsoft HAS to deliver this e3!!omgwtfbbq!!1!1!” thread.
We see it every year. “They got to do this. They have to show that.” To the point where their show is put on an impossible pedestal.
No, the critique has been earned.
Every year for like the past 6-7 years Phil has been boasting about its E3 lineup, but lacking on content. The Last new AAA IP they had was Quantum Break back in 2015. Its been pretty much Halo, Gears and Forza for over a Decade.
 
Aug 28, 2019
4,209
8,737
630
www.instagram.com
Compared to the quality of what Sony puts out. None of those titles you listed are exciting enough to buy a console.

It's a nice added plus for gamepass to have those on top of halo, doom ect. But not even close to same caliber.

TBH I would be excited for Flight Sim and buy a Series X for that alone, but it's called Flight Sim for a reason; unless there's a lot more "gamey" kind of content being added (like I dunno, a professional flight career racing mode like in a GT or Forza but with planes), it will be niche in spite of the great visuals since by nature pure simulators tend to be more niche.

I actually hope they show more of Bright Memory Infinite. I just finished Bright Memory on the Series X and thought it was pretty cool and it gave me Maken X and Breakdown vibes, which I also enjoyed. As an FPS fan, I enjoy the different take that Asian and Japanese developers bring to the genre.

Same here WRT BMI having gameplay shown. I know it's a bit of a meme that they're using Unreal assets, but isn't that kind of why Epic are putting those out in the first place, to expediate game development and asset creation/curation time especially for small teams that don't have an influx of cash, but can still put out visually impressive games? I don't see a reason necessarily to mock that as long as the final product looks great and no copyrights are being blatantly violated.

Since the game is due this year (or early 2022 at latest) then there's no reason to not have a small gameplay segment at the show captured on Series X. Even 1 minute of raw gameplay in real-time would be great and be a good showcase for the system.

Yeah, MS and Spencer gotta stop saying "wait til next E3". Agreed.

But we been saying this for the past decade and XBox still here and having good shows.

I wouldn't say their shows have been "good"; I tend to separate the content of the show from the production of the show itself so even when I can say, for example, the May 2020 show had a lot of great games shown off (BMI, Exo Mecha, The Gunk, The Ascent, Scorn etc.), the production of that event was saggy ass, especially with the bad video cam quality and "gameplay" being thrown around like a buzzword when very few of the games shown had any actual gameplay shown (and if so it was in very small snippets blending in with the stylized parts of the trailer, the only big exception to this was Bright Memory Infinite).

Similarly with the indies event from March; again a lot of great games getting shown off (several of which I became interested in playing thanks to it like the one postal lady one), but the format was TERRIBLE. Way too many drawn-out interview segments which should've been saved for a post-show, among other things.

"No more waiting".......so basically crunch then? Is that the message to devs currently working on games?

Lol no; I'm not saying to rush ahead on Perfect Dark, Fable, Avowed etc. But games already scheduled to come out this year like Bright Memory Infinite, The Gunk, FS 2020 etc.? It's not asking much to have gameplay of those running on Series X at this E3, at the very least. I also don't think it's unrealistic to expect some major Japanese AAA 3P exclusive announcement or partnership, unless Phil's words about breaking into the Asian market were mainly only related to GamePass subscription penetration (which, uh, you still need some major stuff going on with Japanese & other Asian devs to make happen).

Mark my words when I say this but I would honestly keep expectations on the lower end here - simply because COVID has really messed things up. I would argue that E3 2022 is really where its going to be at. I hate saying this, but I will be 100% transparent with you, I think most people will walk away disappointed with Microsoft's showing this year. I know we all have been waiting, but I might have to ask you to wait 1 more year.

Disclaimer - Despite me working in the Industry and heavily working with Microsoft in the past for many years, this is a PERSONAL prediction and only based on educational and logical guesses. I do NOT actually know anything inside-wise. So, please do not claim that I've said this and that.

You will most likely see

Halo Infinite SP/MP - Much More Improved with November Release Date
Forza Horizon 5 With September Release Date set in Mexico
Starfield Blowout
Forza Motorsport 8 for 2022
State of Decay 3 is a possibility
Perfect Dark - Possible gameplay snippet and a 2022 Holiday game
Everwild Update
1 New IP
More Game Pass stuff/surprises
Elden Ring (From Software mostly shows their stuff at Microsoft pressers, Dark Souls II, Dark Souls III, Sekiro and Elden Ring all were world premiers at Microsoft E3 stages)

You will most likely NOT see

Gears 6 - Too early and a 2024/2025 game (E3 2023 most likely)
Fable - Too early and a 2023/2024 game (E3 2022, 100% shown)
Hellblade 2 - Too early and a 2023/2024 game (E3 2022, 100% shown)
Awoved - Too early and another 2023/2024 game (E3 2022, 100% shown)
Multiple New IPs (E3 2022/E3 2023)
DOOM 3 - Too early (E3 2022 possible)

Your expectations are actually more ambitious than mine xD. From the way some of the insiders have been chattering it makes any expectations on PD, Everwild, Elden Ring etc. very low but I hope they're either trolling or just have a bad source on that. I also think they'll prob save Forza 8 for 2022 if the rumors Forza Horizon 5 coming this year or early 2022 are true.

The expectations on the other stuff WRT not to see are realistic as I agree with that. So if this type of showing were to happen, the question really is would it be enough to hook in the attention of gamers not already in the Xbox ecosystem, and ensure enough momentum for the brand going forward to at least try keeping pace with Sony and Nintendo? There's been some other people here downplaying the significance of E3 but I don't think they understand how mainstream the perception of E3 is to the wider mainstream market. To them it's THE gaming show, and the ESA have so much riding on this year's event, probably even more than Microsoft tbh.

So for the sake of ensuring E3 can remain relevant, I'm sure the ESA are counting on platform holders like Nintendo and particularly Microsoft to put on a great show. And like just mentioned, the brand itself needs sustained momentum going into the 2nd half of the year and into 2022, the sooner they can build up that momentum the better and what better place to really push that ball rolling than E3?

I think when most people say they'd be disappointed with Microsoft's presentation, it's if they focus too aggressively on GamePass via indie content or just put out yet more CG trailers but no gameplay to go alongside that, or gameplay that at least in a game or two's cases doesn't provide visual fidelity and polish similar to what we've seen from Sony's efforts on PS5 (particularly Demon's Souls Remake, Horizon Forbidden West and Rachet & Clank: Rift Apart). That doesn't mean they have to be the same kind of games DESIGN-wise, but in terms of visual fidelity that shouldn't be a lot to ask for at this point.

Yes, I know you've been hearing wait one more year for a long time. This was supposed to be the year, but COVID happened, so things naturally got delayed and you have to accept that fact that Microsoft won't show all the goods they originally anticipated. This is not me trying to defend anyone, and you have the right to be upset about it if you wish, but the bottom line is that a change happened in the world and sadly its out of everyone's control no matter how much money you'd throw at people to get the job done. It threw everyone out of a loop. You cannot deny this fact plain and simple. Microsoft is not the only one affected by this, but so is Nintendo and Sony, but they do not need to prove as much for obvious reason and they coming off a good momentum. Maybe MS can show a bunch of CGI trailers, but let's be real, people will cry anyway about that too.

Yes, I think Playground Games can def hit it out of the park. Obsidian I am not sure, I enjoyed Outer Worlds but it was not as good as I was hoping it would be.

I am mostly interested in seeing what Bethesda, Coalition, Playground Games and The Initiative will pull off.

Yes all three are affected but that doesn't mean all three are handling it the same way. In spite of what some may insist, Sony seem to be handling state of affairs even with COVID much more smoothly than Microsoft when it comes to 1P content on their new console platform. I mean just look at the turnover studios like Insomniac have been able to do in only three years. Then you look at the full breadth of games that are 1P or timed console exclusive for PS5 so far: Demon's Souls Remake, Miles Morales, Astro's Playroom, Godfall, Destruction All-Stars, Sackboy, MLB The Show, Returnal and Rachet & Clank: Rift Apart coming next month.

That's nine PlayStation ecosystem exclusives since November of 2020, being a mix of 1P and 3P, cross-gen and PS5-exclusive. All of that even with COVID factored in, and even with that factor, apparently Horizon Forbidden West will be ready to release this year as well. It all comes down to management amid setbacks and I think PlayStation division planned better with contingencies for the impact of COVID than Xbox division did, the results are speaking for themselves right now. We can say the Xbox division prioritized other things, namely system features and whatnot, but then we have to ask if that was the right thing for them to prioritize this early into the new generation when the majority of early adopters are looking forward to new games and experiences tied to them that can't be offered by alternatives (or not as well).

Here's my problem with that. Halo Infinite was already in development for almost 5 years when covid hit back in march of last year and was scheduled to be a launch title. That means they should have been in close to polishing/fix bugs phase of development. Covid is being used as an excuse for bad time/development management.

343 is 700-750 devs strong in size, there a huge studio. Studios 1/3 in size are bring out game during the covid pandemic.

For crying out loud their competitors over at Guerilla Games develop Horizon 2 while growing from 200+ to about 450 devs while at the same time moving to a larger studio, while at the same time continue development during the pandemic and most likely launch this Holiday.

Horizon 2: Cross gen open world game. 450~ devs and 4 3/4 year development.

Halo Infinite: Cross gen semi open world game. 700-750 devs and 6 year development.

The multi-change in leader over the years at 343 shows that Covid was not the primary problem. It Smells like bad Leadership.
Its still amazing to me that we still to this day haven't seen any Halo Infinite footage or screenshots on Xbox Series X, Just PC!!! On a title that should have launched last year.
Not even a screenshot.

Yeah, this is a reason why I'm still mum on Matt Booty, as he acts as the head of the Xbox Game Studios (XGS), while Phil Spencer acts as the head of the Xbox Division. So in a way I'm mum on them both xD. It's on Booty to help guide the teams comprising XGS and ensure quality is being met, and it's on Spencer to make sure Booty is doing his job properly, among other things.

One of the few upper Xbox division management types there I think is doing a good job is Sarah Bond, though. They negotiate publishing deals with external teams to work with Xbox and help with getting content into GamePass, can't say they haven't been doing their job pretty well. I'm sure there are a few others, too, but outside of Greenberg those are the three I first think of and in terms of ensuring internal XGS teams are meeting certain expectations in quality & timeliness, and strategizing out content releases to not leave gaps in publishing of certain tiers of games, that mainly comes down to Matt Booty and Phil Spencer AFAIK.

Are you talking exclusively for the XSX or over the lifetime of the Xbox brand? MS has already said they are pushing cross gen and PC releases so there will never be XSX only titles. Pretty much every game MS puts out is multi-player; Sea of Thieves, Gears, Forza, and Halo. Based on the past to conclude that in the future they won't be able to top those past releases is folly. I appreciate them not following Sony with the types of games they make they just need to release more with regularity. E3 is next month I'm pretty sure they'll figure it out. They've never had this many studios before.

Personally I'm not saying they need to make the kind of games Sony typically makes; however I think they can stick to their strengths while matching the type of visual fidelity and creative design (particularly visually) seen in Sony's bigger games. They could also benefit in pushing character narrative a bit more with more identifiable designs and storytelling/writing techniques that can make them impressionable to the audience more.

They have shown the ability to do this in bits and pieces, whether it's the general polish of the Forza games, the photorealism in FS 2020, the fidelity in Gears 5/Hivebusters and iconic designs like Master Chief from the Halo series. Now they just need some games that can blend all of that together and still leverage MS's general strengths for multiplayer game design, smart integration with GaaS model and use of cloud technology that can take fuller advantage of Series X hardware and they'd get a LOT of doubters and people on the edge to jump in once and for all.
 

Leo9

Neo Member
Dec 23, 2020
46
80
135
No, the critique has been earned.
Every year for like the past 6-7 years Phil has been boasting about its E3 lineup, but lacking on content. The Last new AAA IP they had was Quantum Break back in 2015. Its been pretty much Halo, Gears and Forza for over a Decade.
The critique has been earned, that's true.
But now we know that Starfield, Everwild, Hellblade, Perfect Dark, Avowed, Fable, TES6, Fallout, etc are coming. 2022, 2023, 2024 but the games are real this time. Can't deny that.

MS will still rely on Halo and Forza this year though.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Jul 17, 2004
6,185
3,180
1,695
The critique has been earned, that's true.
But now we know that Starfield, Everwild, Hellblade, Perfect Dark, Avowed, Fable, TES6, Fallout, etc are coming. 2022, 2023, 2024 but the games are real this time. Can't deny that.

MS will still rely on Halo and Forza this year though.
Because most of them are Sony fans and rather Microsoft make the same mistake of the past and waste money on expensive AAA timed or exclusives instead of buying studios. So in 2 years they can complain for 6 years of no games. Instead of letting Microsoft fix the problem properly and waiting for their studios the complete games Avowed, starfield, Fable, hellblade ect then start new ones to end the cycle once and for all.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
2,972
5,102
1,635
I didnt say it had to be XsX specific just released on XsX from MS 1st party, seems you are really struggling here as your silver bullet is a moblie game that released 6 months before the XsX.
Struggling with what? Gears tactics was their launch title. It was not on Xbox before Series came out and it being on PC is true for pretty much all Xbox games going forward. Just like Flight Simulator. Not every one games on the PC.

It seems like you have a very specific issue with the Xbox right now where the answers to your questions about more 1st party titles will come in 2 weeks. If after e3 MS has no games planned you can come and complain. I'll even join you.
 

truth411

Member
May 19, 2014
2,212
1,149
630
The critique has been earned, that's true.
But now we know that Starfield, Everwild, Hellblade, Perfect Dark, Avowed, Fable, TES6, Fallout, etc are coming. 2022, 2023, 2024 but the games are real this time. Can't deny that.

MS will still rely on Halo and Forza this year though.
Outside of Starfield for Possibly 2022 we FACTUALLY don't know that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rolla

Leo9

Neo Member
Dec 23, 2020
46
80
135
Outside of Starfield for Possibly 2022 we FACTUALLY don't know that.
? we know the games are in development. I don't know when they'll ship, but Microsoft output won't be easily ignored this generation and I think that's pretty clear at this point.
 
Last edited:
Apr 4, 2020
610
1,247
360
Struggling with what? Gears tactics was their launch title. It was not on Xbox before Series came out and it being on PC is true for pretty much all Xbox games going forward. Just like Flight Simulator. Not every one games on the PC.

It seems like you have a very specific issue with the Xbox right now where the answers to your questions about more 1st party titles will come in 2 weeks. If after e3 MS has no games planned you can come and complain. I'll even join you.
Struggling to give me a legitimate answer to my question, one which i shaped as favorably as i could using the metrics you originally identified as to MS having superior multi-player games. Further cementing the idea that MS fans are content to just waiting for then next E3, and the next and the next. I am leveraging the premise of this thread to expose the fact that you all are good with eating PB&J so why should MS do anything different?
 
  • Like
Reactions: kyoji

truth411

Member
May 19, 2014
2,212
1,149
630
? we know the games are in development. I don't know when they'll ship, but Microsoft output won't be easily ignored this generation and I think that's pretty clear at this point.
Nope, they have to prove that. They haven't earned the same reputation that Sony and Nintendo have.
Honestly Im not expecting a steady stream of games from them until 2024. Unreal Engine V isn't even out yet and it will be a couple of years after that to see big AAA games using that Engine.
Meanwhile Sony and Nintendo are not going to be standing still.
Heck if I was Sony I'd release Horizon 2 the Same Date as Halo Infinite (probably in November) to just boost mindshare.
 
Last edited:

Calverz

Member
Apr 27, 2014
1,991
3,525
720
No, the critique has been earned.
Every year for like the past 6-7 years Phil has been boasting about its E3 lineup, but lacking on content. The Last new AAA IP they had was Quantum Break back in 2015. Its been pretty much Halo, Gears and Forza for over a Decade.
It’s not criticism. It’s deliberate overhyping with the objective to make the press conference reaction subdued. It’s been happening for years from the usual suspects.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stuart360

Heisenberg007

Member
Nov 16, 2020
2,193
7,401
445
I really like your points and criticism.

But Xbox brand is not just console anymore. It's hugh mungus PC audience too. It's cloud audience too. Phone users. Smart TV users.

Even if Xbox had banger exclusives at this right moment, people would still choose their preferred way(platform) to play Xbox ecosystem exclusives.

Xbox console market share percentage would still be still low. Because of all those people who were given a chance by MS to play on platforms they want.

Its not 2013 anymore. Microsoft rebranded Xbox into "ecosystem where gamepass exists" already knowing in advance that they would lose market share automatically.

But sure, they must act as soon as possible in terms of AAA software and act in a most aggressive manner they can.
I may be wrong, but I think that's the incorrect strategy by Microsoft. Console sales and market share are incredibly important.

Yes, Microsoft will sell (and earn profits from) first-party games regardless of consoles in the market. However, their revenue and profits will be severely limited if they don't have a large market share in the console market. That's because games like Call of Duty, Fortnite, and GTA 6 (the big money makers) won't be on Gamepass.

Suppose if PS5 outsells Xbox by 3:1 (it's already around 2.5 iirc), say, 30 million Xbox vs. 90 million PS5s, and that's when GTA 6 drops. Almost 80% of console sales for GTA 6 will be on the PS5, and we are talking about 50-70 million copies at the least. 50 million copies at $70 per copy is $3.5 billion. At 80% market share, that's roughly $840 million in profits for PlayStation as the platform cut vs. $200 million for Xbox. This is not even counting all the shark cards and microtransactions. In addition, the impact of mindshare will be a huge intangible loss for Xbox.

The same goes for other games like Call of Duty, Fortnite, etc.

Microsoft needs to sell consoles, in addition to growing Gamepass subscribers. One strategy cannot undermine the other, because it will directly affect their bottom line and the division's long-term profitability.
 

Utherellus

Member
Feb 11, 2020
70
172
280
I may be wrong, but I think that's the incorrect strategy by Microsoft. Console sales and market share are incredibly important.

Yes, Microsoft will sell (and earn profits from) first-party games regardless of consoles in the market. However, their revenue and profits will be severely limited if they don't have a large market share in the console market. That's because games like Call of Duty, Fortnite, and GTA 6 (the big money makers) won't be on Gamepass.

Suppose if PS5 outsells Xbox by 3:1 (it's already around 2.5 iirc), say, 30 million Xbox vs. 90 million PS5s, and that's when GTA 6 drops. Almost 80% of console sales for GTA 6 will be on the PS5, and we are talking about 50-70 million copies at the least. 50 million copies at $70 per copy is $3.5 billion. At 80% market share, that's roughly $840 million in profits for PlayStation as the platform cut vs. $200 million for Xbox. This is not even counting all the shark cards and microtransactions. In addition, the impact of mindshare will be a huge intangible loss for Xbox.

The same goes for other games like Call of Duty, Fortnite, etc.

Microsoft needs to sell consoles, in addition to growing Gamepass subscribers. One strategy cannot undermine the other, because it will directly affect their bottom line and the division's long-term profitability.
oh damn I have not looked at this such way. Completely forgot about third party sale and microtransaction cuts.

Thats a huge loss indeed.

Well, they know about this better than us so lets just hope they have nice plan to boost their relevance with software portfolio.
 

Leo9

Neo Member
Dec 23, 2020
46
80
135
Nope, they have to prove that. They haven't earned the same reputation that Sony and Nintendo have.
Honestly Im not expecting a steady stream of games from them until 2024. Unreal Engine V isn't even out yet and it will be a couple of years after that to see big AAA games using that Engine.
Meanwhile Sony and Nintendo are not going to be standing still.
Heck if I was Sony I'd release Horizon 2 the Same Date as Halo Infinite (probably in November) to just boost mindshare.
ID, Playground, Bethesda, Arkane etc have nothing to prove. I'm sure i'll love the next Doom and TES. Don't pretend these are mediocre developers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteelCurtain 59

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
2,972
5,102
1,635
Struggling to give me a legitimate answer to my question, one which i shaped as favorably as i could using the metrics you originally identified as to MS having superior multi-player games. Further cementing the idea that MS fans are content to just waiting for then next E3, and the next and the next. I am leveraging the premise of this thread to expose the fact that you all are good with eating PB&J so why should MS do anything different?
So you are limiting Xbox's better multi-player output exclusively to the Xbox Series? Fine. At this moment if you don't look at anything before the Xbox Series consoles came out there hasn't been new multi-player games. Still is anyone else making any multi-player games on the scale of Halo? I don't think if multi-player games are your thing anyone else is making games to cater to those desires.

Your comments about pb&j is pretty funny seeing how MS has taken steps to make tons of games look and run better on XSX|S consoles. The XSS has more games running at 120fps than PS5 or Switch so it really comes down to preference. Smart Delivery takes tons of guess work out games you download. MS has respected old purchases allowing even some original Xbox games to run on their current system. Game pass has been getting day releases and NONE of these features take away from MS making new games that we'll hopefully see in 2 weeks. The 'wait to e3' is fine criticism but you can't deny that the MS of 2013 isn't the MS of 2021.
 

GuinGuin

Member
May 18, 2021
1,104
2,192
380
ID, Playground, Bethesda, Arkane etc have nothing to prove. I'm sure i'll love the next Doom and TES. Don't pretend these are mediocre developers.

Oblivion was awesome. Skyrim was pretty good. Fallout 3 and 4 were meh and let's not talk about Fallout 76 or Elder Scrolls Blades. I hope they make the next Elder Scrolls a really good one but their track record has me worried.
 
Apr 4, 2020
610
1,247
360
So you are limiting Xbox's better multi-player output exclusively to the Xbox Series? Fine. At this moment if you don't look at anything before the Xbox Series consoles came out there hasn't been new multi-player games. Still is anyone else making any multi-player games on the scale of Halo? I don't think if multi-player games are your thing anyone else is making games to cater to those desires.

Your comments about pb&j is pretty funny seeing how MS has taken steps to make tons of games look and run better on XSX|S consoles. The XSS has more games running at 120fps than PS5 or Switch so it really comes down to preference. Smart Delivery takes tons of guess work out games you download. MS has respected old purchases allowing even some original Xbox games to run on their current system. Game pass has been getting day releases and NONE of these features take away from MS making new games that we'll hopefully see in 2 weeks. The 'wait to e3' is fine criticism but you can't deny that the MS of 2013 isn't the MS of 2021.
Well if you want to limit it to just multi-player Sony has a few offerings al biet not the greatest but its atleast something (Sack boy, Destruction all stars and God Fail(not 1st party)) If were not talking about new games on a NEW system why the hell release the damn thing? Also im a huge fan of what MS is doing with its back compatibility team and would also like Sony to put more emphasis on this as well (they are doing decent with patches) but not at the cost of NEW content.
 

oldergamer

Member
Aug 20, 2004
3,876
3,763
1,605
This is a stupid argument in the thread comparing one set of games to the next. Just wait until we see what games we have to argue about. Sony has revealed everything coming this year and next. MS has not shown everything coming this year or next. We should soon know, and then we can compare.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DaGwaphics

McCheese

Member
Jan 7, 2018
2,371
5,833
635
Valve's Digital Distribution Platform
If Halo Infinite isn't a spectacular return to form, I don't know what happens to the franchise moving forward.

Having lacklustre release after lacklustre release hasn't harmed the Pokemon franchise for over a decade.

Even if it's a shit game, being on GamePass and being Halo means it's going to pull some massive numbers for Microsoft no matter what, then they'll just treat it as a SaaS and keep adding new multiplayer modes until something sticks and double down on that. Sony need a tent-pole system seller every 3-4 months, Microsoft just need something to keep people busy until the next reoccurring monthly subscription comes out; it's really not the end of the world if it's just okay, so long as it's not Crackdown levels of awful.
 
Last edited:

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Sep 30, 2019
4,972
9,699
580
IMHO MS is constantly changing it. Right now they are a 100% service centric a.k.a. gamepass. The best cost x benefit service out there where you can play several games you didn't know they existed, plus some launching games directly in the service, their games and 3rd party. It really doesn't matter if "Xbox" will grow in brand awareness cause their intent is to put this service everywhere. They need to do this cause depending on xbox community alone the service can only grow so much.

That's my humble explanation on why even after acquire studios (before Bethesda) they still aren't ready for this new gen. Still, big single player productions doesn't really fit a service like gamepass. They want people to be loyal customers, so they need quantity than quality. I'm not saying they won't offer quality games, but they need games that can be explored more than a month. We saw Gears 5 coming day one to the service and in the next month no one was talking about the game anymore. Same as Outriders.

"Organic growth" was treated as a joke for the same people who believe in Spencer since 2014. But Insomniac is outputing game after game where MS' acquisitions are only saying they are working on blog posts or showing clips of clouds.

Sony wants to take more than half of the market share with Playstation 5. They are working hard to make this happen and they know the importance of their first party studios and ips, plus their partnerships with 3rd party. They already have a clear objective to do this and it will involve their other segments: movies, animes, music. Playstation brand has everything to grow further this gen and Sony plans to expand to mobile and PC without forgetting PS5 hardware is a thing. It is the opposite, everything else won't mean shit if PS5 flops.

First year games of PS5 are better than PS4 ones. So the world knows right now Sony doesn't make empty promises, they deliver.
10/10 post! Judging from the quick start even during a pandemic, PS is really going full throttle they want even more dominance.

Xbox should have a good E3 they have enough teams but we have to see the kinds of games they have coming and whether most of them fit a "Gamepass model"
 
Last edited:

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
9,492
22,505
730
It’s not criticism. It’s deliberate overhyping with the objective to make the press conference reaction subdued. It’s been happening for years from the usual suspects.
Yep we have had this same thread for like 5 or 6 years now. If its isnt 'Microsoft are doomed if they dont have a good E3' (which is funny as probably 80% of console owners probably dont even watch E3), it will be 'If Xbox dont show off 50 AAA games with 100mil budgets, they had a bad E3'.
Basically say something they know isnt going to happen so they can say 'see i told you, they had a terrible E3. Xbox is doomed, Nadella is going to drop the division'.
Its so tiresome at this point lol.:messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Calverz