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No More "Wait Till Next E3"; 2021's Show Will Define Microsoft's Prospects One Way Or Another

What's the most important thing you feel Microsoft needs to show this E3 for the masses (choose 3)?

  • Stellar re-showing of Halo Infinite

    Votes: 212 55.9%
  • Reveal and gameplay for Starfield

    Votes: 128 33.8%
  • New exclusive Japanese IP reveal

    Votes: 37 9.8%
  • New exclusive Western IP reveal

    Votes: 63 16.6%
  • Visually "next-gen" gaming exclusives (BMI, Scorn, Exo Mecha, Gunk etc.)

    Votes: 144 38.0%
  • More GamePass announcements/partnerships

    Votes: 81 21.4%
  • Gameplay from a new secret first-party IP

    Votes: 122 32.2%
  • Another major acquisition (WB Games, Sega, etc.)

    Votes: 51 13.5%
  • Announcement for VR on Xbox

    Votes: 22 5.8%

  • Total voters
    379
  • Poll closed .

ArcaneNLSC

Member
Jeff Grubb can't get hyped and I'm convinced he has the Xbox logo tattooed on his anus. Temper your expectations a little bit.


I'm pretty sure he had plastic surgery on his anus to make the sphincter the shape of the xbox logo so when his shits its in the shape of the logo
 

NullZ3r0

Banned
This is something Microsoft needs to be careful with, agreed. CG trailers are fine and good but only if you already have results under the belt to "get away" with them. I think that's honestly the reason people are more lenient with Sony when it comes to CG reveal trailers for games potentially far out, since they have strong consistency in their 1P both in terms of quality and schedule of releases.

Some may call it a double standard but Sony's earned the right to have it, fair or not. Microsoft has shown they can earn it as well; Forza has consistently been great and FS 2020 was one of the best "games" of last year especially from a visual POV. But I don't think those are the type of games that are going to capture the imaginations or hearts of masses not already invested in the Xbox ecosystem, they're not necessarily the type of games capable of doing it and that simply comes down to the fact they don't have recognizable characters, stories, aren't driven by any type of story, don't have human or human-esque characters players can identify with etc.

The July showcase from last year was light on gameplay outside of Halo Infinite and that wasn't even running on a Series X; I think this year they need that and several other games with gameplay footage running/captured on a Series X. Games like Bright Memory Infinite (which had a really good showcase at the May 2020 event IMO, again tho wasn't running on a Series X), Scorn etc. should be far along enough to do that with, since they are slated for a late 2021 release IIRC.
Were you around for the Killzone 3 debacle?
 

oldergamer

Member
Here's my problem with that. Halo Infinite was already in development for almost 5 years when covid hit back in march of last year and was scheduled to be a launch title. That means they should have been in close to polishing/fix bugs phase of development. Covid is being used as an excuse for bad time/development management.

343 is 700-750 devs strong in size, there a huge studio. Studios 1/3 in size are bring out game during the covid pandemic.

For crying out loud their competitors over at Guerilla Games develop Horizon 2 while growing from 200+ to about 450 devs while at the same time moving to a larger studio, while at the same time continue development during the pandemic and most likely launch this Holiday.

Horizon 2: Cross gen open world game. 450~ devs and 4 3/4 year development.

Halo Infinite: Cross gen semi open world game. 700-750 devs and 6 year development.

The multi-change in leader over the years at 343 shows that Covid was not the primary problem. It Smells like bad Leadership.
Its still amazing to me that we still to this day haven't seen any Halo Infinite footage or screenshots on Xbox Series X, Just PC!!! On a title that should have launched last year.
Not even a screenshot.
Well first your problem should be to get your facts right. 343 never had 700-750 devs, I'm not sure where you got that number. No halo infinite hasn't been in development for 6 years. You are forgetting that 343 also was working on many rather large halo 5 multiplayer updates, and updates to the master chief collection to fix how broken it was. They really didn't get into full swing development until a while after Halo 5. You're making some leaps to make your point.

I'm not sure why you are comparing them to Guerilla. They are many smaller studios that released more games in that same period of time. Coalition is one, playground games is another, both with less people.
 
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That sounds excellent to me even without State of Decay and Perfect Dark. I haven't kept up here but are people really expecting more than this?
I'm not very familiar with XGS output, cadence, and production, but I thought State of Decay, Perfect Dark, and Hellblade 2 would be very close to launch by this stage, because:
  • State of Decay launched in 3 years ago in May 2018.
  • Perfect Dark has been playable for many years now, according to executive tweets
  • Hellblade 2 is in production since 2017 or 2018, I think?
Especially for HB2 and SOD3, it's already been 3+ years, which is usually enough for sequels. Not sure why some are saying that these are 2023/2024 games.

Personally, I am not excited about SOD3, but I do want to see Hellblade 2 this E3.
 

DarkMage619

Member
That's completely false and is a lie. They said you will be seeing crossgen titles for at least 2 years.

Awoved, Fable are XSX only titles along with Perfect Dark. Please stop spreading misinformation and check your facts.
I didn't mean forever. I was talking about for the time being in this current period. There isn't enough of an installed base to justify XSX exclusive software honestly.

Thought i made it pretty clear, give me one example of a quality game MS 1st party studio has released on XsX since its launch? Or should we continue to wait because you are "pretty sure they'll figure it out"?
The only 1st party title they have released is Gears tactics. They won't make any Series specific software until this summer with Flight Simulator. There is a good chance that Forza will be cross gen. MS was never pushing to drop the X1 support. Sony was the one talking about believing in generations not MS so it's silly to make the comparison. They are playing different games and have different strategies.
 
Still going to be a couple of years before they really get swinging with all the new additions. Even more so with the COVID BS.

They probably got Forza Horizon and Psychonauts 2 this year, and maybe Halo?
 

Utherellus

Member
Uncle Phil has been feeding Xbox fans with promises ever since 2014 and they all eat it up nice and proper.Every year it's the same situation until E3 passes again and MS guys say "don't worry next year will be Microsoft's year"!Then nothing happens and then more promises etc etc.It's a neverending cycle of empty promises but it seems to work for them so i can easily see at least 3-4 more years of Xbox just feeding on the goodwill of its fans and on "how awesome Gamepass is" or "how awesome 15 year old games look with BC."
Such a bad take....

They finally started heavily investing in Xbox, but of course there are people trying to downplay their efforts.

Marketing words like "don't worry next year will be Microsoft's year" during whole last generation is one side of the coin. But the other side is actual reality in which Xbox nearly quadrupled their first party studio portfolio.


And there is no way around that.

 
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DarkMage619

Member
Such a bad take....

They finally started heavily investing in Xbox, but of course there are people trying to downplay their efforts.

Marketing words like "don't worry next year will be Microsoft's year" during whole last generation is one side of the coin. But the other side is actual reality in which Xbox nearly quadrupled their first party studio portfolio.


And there is no way around that.

Was Playground 1st party in 2017? I thought they were still 2nd party then. Your point is well taken. There is no way MS won't increase their game output this generation. Should be an exciting time.
 
They’ve put pressure on themselves however i know what you mean. I hope they do have great stuff, I don’t want a repeat of X1 generation.
How many more posts like this are there going to be? They have 23 plus studios! Much more than Sony or Nintendo, they are as far away from the Xbox One generation as one could possibly be.
 

MonarchJT

Banned
so gaf is downplaying everything Microsoft and telling me that the show will be mediocre at best with just halo gameplay and in the end games will be probably mediocre too...gamepass is bad for the industry and Sony studios are better. wow I never would have said that ahahahah
 
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kungfuian

Member
Keep hearing about all these studios Microsoft's has now but that's not really the issue at all anymore.

The argument isn't whether or not they can produce enough content at some undetermined time in the future, it's whether or not they can do it before customers get sick of fucking waiting. It's the impact of that content not being there at launch. It's about already being outsold in hardware 2 to 1 and the lack of momentum against their biggest competitor because of software issues. It's the impact of not having content clearly laid out for the foreseeable future.

To me it's pretty simple. If the games come too late (my argument is they are already too late) it will have a negative impact on their ability to build and maintain momentum into this gen. It's been 6 months and no 1st party exclusives to speak of. Meanwhile their competitor is releasing solid game after game after game.

Spin it anyway you like, they might have enough studios now, but they still very much have a software timing problem.
 
so gaf is downplaying everything Microsoft and telling me that the show will be mediocre at best with just halo gameplay and in the end games will be probably mediocre too...gamepass is bad for the industry and Sony studios are better. wow I never would have said that ahahahah
Don't blame gaf blame Jeff Grubb he's the one telling people to temper their expectations .
 

reksveks

Member
so gaf is downplaying everything Microsoft and telling me that the show will be mediocre at best with just halo gameplay and in the end games will be probably mediocre too...gamepass is bad for the industry and Sony studios are better. wow I never would have said that ahahahah
It's alright, if its a good event then it will be seen as a win.
 

Greggy

Member
Keep hearing about all these studios Microsoft's has now but that's not really the issue at all anymore.

The argument isn't whether or not they can produce enough content at some undetermined time in the future, it's whether or not they can do it before customers get sick of fucking waiting. It's the impact of that content not being there at launch. It's about already being outsold in hardware 2 to 1 and the lack of momentum against their biggest competitor because of software issues. It's the impact of not having content clearly laid out for the foreseeable future.

To me it's pretty simple. If the games come too late (my argument is they are already too late) it will have a negative impact on their ability to build and maintain momentum into this gen. It's been 6 months and no 1st party exclusives to speak of. Meanwhile their competitor is releasing solid game after game after game.

Spin it anyway you like, they might have enough studios now, but they still very much have a software timing problem.
If you have game pass you do indeed have a software timing problem and that’s “how the hell am I gonna find the time to play all these games?”
Yesterday eve I ended up not playing anything because I couldn’t choose between Dirt 5 (cross gen), Nba2k21(cross gen), Mechwarrior 5 (I think cross gen), the Medium (next gen), MLB (cross gen), or one of the half a dozen final fantasy games or one of the half a dozen yakuza games. This is just a small selection of those I considered last night, the choice is of course astronomically wider than that. I ended up just watching the nba playoffs. And never mind that all I paid for these games since the XSX launch doesn’t even equals the cost of a single game like Returnal.
Next gen exclusives are important but Microsoft a) made sure there isn’t any doubt about the caliber of what is coming and b) sure as hell made sure we don’t twiddle our thumbs while waiting.

Now don’t get me wrong, there are times when I think that it’s unacceptable that a studio like The Initiative still has to show any actual gameplay from what it’s been working on since being created, while Insomniac is already RELEASING its SECOND next gen FULL game. E3 will help determine if and when my patience runs out.
 
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MonarchJT

Banned
Don't blame gaf blame Jeff Grubb he's the one telling people to temper their expectations .
temper expectations and saying that everything will be "meh" are two different things ...the reality is that halo infinite will probably be the game that will sell the most so far on any new console.
 
MS aren't concerned about pushing units of software or hardware. Gears tactics and Hivebusters being mentioned is also strange. One is a DLC the other released 6 months before the Series consoles. MS output has been complete crap but part of why it doesn't matter is because their strategy is subscriptions and as long as they are growing that and 'engagement' they couldn't give a rats ass, especially as they have people here defending them in any case.
GamePass still needs content. People want to compare it to Netflix? Microsoft needs a "the Crown".

 

H-I-M

Member
Such a bad take....

They finally started heavily investing in Xbox, but of course there are people trying to downplay their efforts.

Marketing words like "don't worry next year will be Microsoft's year" during whole last generation is one side of the coin. But the other side is actual reality in which Xbox nearly quadrupled their first party studio portfolio.


And there is no way around that.



And yet their big flagship main game Halo still looked like crap and had to be delayed from the backlash.
If anything this just goes to show that Microsoft just don't know what they're doing and them having 2000 studios won't change that.
 
temper expectations and saying that everything will be "meh" are two different things ...the reality is that halo infinite will probably be the game that will sell the most so far on any new console.
My point is even people normally very favourable to ms are telling people that it doesn't look good for e3 over social media and even if people are saying the same here it just doesn't carry the same weight as actual supposed "insiders" saying it.
 

H-I-M

Member
temper expectations and saying that everything will be "meh" are two different things ...the reality is that halo infinite will probably be the game that will sell the most so far on any new console.

Halo won't outsell Spider-man, and certainly not with a smaller install base.

(What were the last Halo's numbers ? )
 

Greggy

Member
And yet their big flagship main game Halo still looked like crap and had to be delayed from the backlash.
If anything this just goes to show that Microsoft just don't know what they're doing and them having 2000 studios won't change that.
Even if you are the most intense Xbox sceptic based on the Halo infinite initial showing, there is no rational reason to believe that Tango or Arkane will suddenly start releasing crap. Guess who else doesn't believe that will be the case? Sony, hence why they moneyhatted the next games from those Microsoft studios (yes before they knew they would be MS studios). That's not to mention Id or Machine Games.
Good games are not what Microsoft will be lacking this gen. They should just start screaming on the rooftops how full the pipeline is and with what. I believe that's what E3 is for.
 
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Loope

Member
With so many games to play on the PS5, it begs the question why Sony fans are so worried about MS games. I mean it doesn't matter to you, why waste time just posting shit when you actually don't know anything? No one does, actually.
 

MonarchJT

Banned
Halo won't outsell Spider-man, and certainly not with a smaller install base.

(What were the last Halo's numbers ? )
smaller install base in what alternate universe? Xbox platform is PC+consoles+Xcloud... did u read the memo ? the only way for PS5 or entire Sony to have a bigger user base is to release their games day one on PC.
 
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Umbasaborne

Member
Damn.

Add to this Death Loop and Tokyo Ghost Wire have 1 year PS5 exclusivity and.....yeah.....

Its a wild look no matter how you look at it.
I dont know why, they knew these consoles were coming last year. Why not have a back up plan if halo slipped? They have all these studios, yet they were unable to have a single NEW first party game ready to go. Im not counting ports of games that used to be on pc
 

NahaNago

Member
so gaf is downplaying everything Microsoft and telling me that the show will be mediocre at best with just halo gameplay and in the end games will be probably mediocre too...gamepass is bad for the industry and Sony studios are better. wow I never would have said that ahahahah
It is more a matter of what is actually ready to show and have gameplay. We've already had cg trailers of fable, perfect dark, and hellblade but does anyone really think those games are ready. Forza and Halo will be there of course. Bethesda is kind of an unknown on what they will show. Starfield reports are all over the place. They did buy a lot of smaller studios so those games should be ready by now to be shown and hopefully released next year.

I honestly think next E3 is where Microsoft will blow everyone out of the water, so wait till next E3 :messenger_tears_of_joy: .
 

Utherellus

Member
And yet their big flagship main game Halo still looked like crap and had to be delayed from the backlash.
If anything this just goes to show that Microsoft just don't know what they're doing and them having 2000 studios won't change that.
> 1 studio out of 23 struggles
> Microsoft doesn't know what they are doing

bruh

having "2000" studios already changed everything. their portfolio in long term is stronger than ever.
 

Havoc2049

Member
Based off the recent q and a session, it's likely to be a beta but I can see it in q3/q4.
You might be right. I just watched the May Q&A and the head of the Microsoft Flight Simulator group jokingly said that Phil Spencer would murder him if he said the release date and that progress and confidence in the console version was "great".

The last Series X trailer for Microsoft Flight Simulator did say Summer of 2021 though....
 

NahaNago

Member
smaller install base in what alternate universe? Xbox platform is PC+consoles+Xcloud... did u read the memo ? the only way for PS5 or entire Sony to have a bigger user base is to release their games day one on PC.
Just because you have a larger install base doesn't mean folks will buy the game though. Do you think your halo game will surpass the switch's animal crossing? I'm pretty sure there are tons of games that were on pc + console + xcloud that didn't surpass Spiderman.

edit; unsure of the xcloud.
 
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jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Mark my words when I say this but I would honestly keep expectations on the lower end here - simply because COVID has really messed things up. I would argue that E3 2022 is really where its going to be at. I hate saying this, but I will be 100% transparent with you, I think most people will walk away disappointed with Microsoft's showing this year. I know we all have been waiting, but I might have to ask you to wait 1 more year.

Disclaimer - Despite me working in the Industry and heavily working with Microsoft in the past for many years, this is a PERSONAL prediction and only based on educational and logical guesses. I do NOT actually know anything inside-wise. So, please do not claim that I've said this and that.

You will most likely see

Halo Infinite SP/MP - Much More Improved with November Release Date
Forza Horizon 5 With September Release Date set in Mexico
Starfield Blowout
Forza Motorsport 8 for 2022
State of Decay 3 is a possibility
Perfect Dark - Possible gameplay snippet and a 2022 Holiday game
Everwild Update
1 New IP
More Game Pass stuff/surprises
Elden Ring (From Software mostly shows their stuff at Microsoft pressers, Dark Souls II, Dark Souls III, Sekiro and Elden Ring all were world premiers at Microsoft E3 stages)

You will most likely NOT see

Gears 6 - Too early and a 2024/2025 game (E3 2023 most likely)
Fable - Too early and a 2023/2024 game (E3 2022, 100% shown)
Hellblade 2 - Too early and a 2023/2024 game (E3 2022, 100% shown)
Awoved - Too early and another 2023/2024 game (E3 2022, 100% shown)
Multiple New IPs (E3 2022/E3 2023)
DOOM 3 - Too early (E3 2022 possible)
Hellblade 2 is still a shock if its not gonna be any gameplay shown at this E3. Covid really did a number on MS and the studios then. I remember a time when some were using Sony getting dev kits out early as a bad thing because console wars (specs, underpowered, etc.) Who woulda thought trying to get games ready for your next gen console was important...
Keep hearing about all these studios Microsoft's has now but that's not really the issue at all anymore.

The argument isn't whether or not they can produce enough content at some undetermined time in the future, it's whether or not they can do it before customers get sick of fucking waiting. It's the impact of that content not being there at launch. It's about already being outsold in hardware 2 to 1 and the lack of momentum against their biggest competitor because of software issues. It's the impact of not having content clearly laid out for the foreseeable future.

To me it's pretty simple. If the games come too late (my argument is they are already too late) it will have a negative impact on their ability to build and maintain momentum into this gen. It's been 6 months and no 1st party exclusives to speak of. Meanwhile their competitor is releasing solid game after game after game.

Spin it anyway you like, they might have enough studios now, but they still very much have a software timing problem.
Thank you.

Its amazing this thread is about ....this E3....and you still see posts basically saying they will be fine because the future.
I dont know why, they knew these consoles were coming last year. Why not have a back up plan if halo slipped? They have all these studios, yet they were unable to have a single NEW first party game ready to go. Im not counting ports of games that used to be on pc
Agree.
 

DarkMage619

Member
I dont know why, they knew these consoles were coming last year. Why not have a back up plan if halo slipped? They have all these studios, yet they were unable to have a single NEW first party game ready to go. Im not counting ports of games that used to be on pc
I thought they have sold almost every unit they have made. If they had more 1st party software would they have sold more than what they already had? Also the virus seems to have impacted them far more than Sony so that also seems to have affected their software output. Developers had already complained about the state of their GDK initially, which was overhauled to make software for three different platforms easier, which is something no other platform holder had to deal with. They had several unique situations that affected their business. I'm willing to see what e3 has before making any conclusions.
 

NahaNago

Member
I thought they have sold almost every unit they have made. If they had more 1st party software would they have sold more than what they already had? Also the virus seems to have impacted them far more than Sony so that also seems to have affected their software output. Developers had already complained about the state of their GDK initially, which was overhauled to make software for three different platforms easier, which is something no other platform holder had to deal with. They had several unique situations that affected their business. I'm willing to see what e3 has before making any conclusions.
They were simply not ready for next gen period. Covid is just an excuse. Even without covid what games were even available to launch this year. The only game besides halo I can think of right now is possibly hellblade. This is part of the reason why Bethesda is so crucial right now.
 
Nah. Halo Infinite, Starfield, Avowed, Hellblade II, ES6, State of Decay 3 and Fable are more up my alley.

Xbox just needs to be Xbox. If you want to play 30 fps sad dad games, get a PlayStation.
How do you even know it is up your Alley? The company who was about to launch Halo Infinite in an unfinished state last year, is still the same company remaking it. Would you still say it is up your ally if they launched it as-is like they planned?
 

NullZ3r0

Banned
Well yeah.... but this thread and that tweet was talking about this E3.

I expect anything MS puts out thats next gen only to look as good or better. Maybe even something that cross gen.

Some of us have said before so far it seems Sony devs can handle cross gen better than most.
Not really. Microsoft seems to value transparency over showmanship to their own detriment. Consumers are largely fickle, uninformed and have short memories.

MS treats their games like they treat their other software. They literally went into the Halo unveiling with the mindset that gamers would focus more on the gameplay and would ignore the work in progress graphics understanding that it was just a demo.

Sony develops demos with the purpose of wowing consumers. They are heavily scripted slices with disclaimers galore. They are more trailer-like in their presentation.
 

DarkMage619

Member
They were simply not ready for next gen period. Covid is just an excuse. Even without covid what games were even available to launch this year. The only game besides halo I can think of right now is possibly hellblade. This is part of the reason why Bethesda is so crucial right now.
They weren't ready with new Series software but on the hardware front they had a fully functioning system from day one. The things they did with back compatibility were unprecedented. Cold storage, internal memory expansion, quick resume, Game pass, and UI refinements were all well done. We'd just want to see new software from their internal studios and if memory serve they should be showing that in 2 weeks.
 

NullZ3r0

Banned
How do you even know it is up your Alley? The company who was about to launch Halo Infinite in an unfinished state last year, is still the same company remaking it. Would you still say it is up your ally if they launched it as-is like they planned?
What kind of question is this? Unless Halo Infinite is secretly a turn-based JRPG, it will be up my alley.
 
Not really. Microsoft seems to value transparency over showmanship to their own detriment. Consumers are largely fickle, uninformed and have short memories.

MS treats their games like they treat their other software. They literally went into the Halo unveiling with the mindset that gamers would focus more on the gameplay and would ignore the work in progress graphics understanding that it was just a demo.

Sony develops demos with the purpose of wowing consumers. They are heavily scripted slices with disclaimers galore. They are more trailer-like in their presentation.
Well maybe if the first two initial trailers for Halo Infinite were not literally just animated films that have nothing to do with the game and wasn't even made with the same engine, people would have been less disappointed at what Halo Infinite ACTUALLY looked like. Trying to argue that Sony show fake trailers would only work if you had forgotten about Halo Infinite's own early trailers. Some of us do not have Goldfish level amnesia.
 
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NullZ3r0

Banned
Well maybe if the first two initial trailers for Halo Infinite were not literally just animated films that have nothing to do with the game and wasn't even made with the same engine, people would have been less disappointed at what Halo Infinite ACTUALLY looked like. Trying to argue that Sony show fake trailers would only work if you had forgotten about Halo Infinite's own early trailers. Some of us do not have Goldfish level amnesia.
Stop putting words in my mouth. Where did I say or even imply that Sony makes "fake trailers"?
 

Stuart360

Member
My only problem with this show is that a large amount of the show is going to be reserved for Starfield (rightly so), but as we have seen with Fallout 4 compared to Fallout 3, the game probably isnt going to be a graphical powerhouse, which will cause a lot of fanboy negativity shit..
Still i expect Halo Infinite to look a lot better than last showing, and hopefully Forza Horizon 5 will look great, and i'm sure it will as FH4 still looks freaking awesome, but again its probably a cross gen title.
 
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