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[Tookay]

Lesson 2: Two platforms is one too many... I don't agree with you here. The Wind Waker wouldn't be made if Nintendo decide to just stick with the GBA since gamecube was a flop.

Lesson 3: ...Two screens maybe too. 3DS is still selling. 2DS will even push the sale projection for their handheld division. Because these product are still selling there no reason to abandon two screens yet.

... That's a really flimsy analysis.

The point of Lesson 2 is that making GCN-level games for a handheld PLUS HD games for a console is stretching Nintendo thin. In an age where Nintendo can no longer rely on third-parties to fill gaps, a stretched Nintendo alone cannot provide enough games in a reliable fashion to keep their systems viable or maintain consumer interest. Something has to give.

And the 3DS may be "selling," but its sales to date and its trajectory show that the handheld market has changed and that maybe Nintendo needs to reorient. The 2-screen gimmick hurts them getting apps made for one screen and seemingly offers little in the way of value to others, while driving up costs and sucking up battery life.

 

[bleachrude]

I'm not sure it's possible to make a console that has parity with the industry standard AND still be under $250.

Neogaf economists/tech heads - is this a total bullshit proposal?

 

[gemoran4]

Sorry for bumping the thread, but I came up with another possible (and, probably, crazy) idea for next gen Nintendo handheld hardware, but I didn't want to create a brand new thread just for that. This idea would also blend fantastically with the software creation application I described in this post - http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=79433181&postcount=135 ,but it would also represent a drastic concept as a whole.

It's a second idea about the hardware itself. If you remember correctly, I already posted here my first concept for the next handheld, a foldable design BUT with two screens of equal dimensions, both touch and attached to each other. Then, if the console is fully open, you'd have basically one giant screen (and people should have the option of selecting between classic two screens mode and one giant touch screen mode). So, a sort-of-tablet, but with the whole recent handheld Nintendo identity (foldable design, two screens) still presents.
Now, the brand new concept I thought about is based on both the screens not just being "simple" touch screens, but haptic screens. Haptic technology allows for much greater feedback compared to normal touch screens, much better reliability for control. Then, thinking at haptic technology AND, as also muu in another similar thread did, how Monster Hunter uses the bottom screen (touch d-pad), I've had this (I admit it) extreme idea.



Yep, those buttons are on the screen, not on the console. They're digital (except L and R, still physical). Yeah, we allo know that digital analogues on touch screens, as well buttons on the touch are too unreliable to be considered reliable enough, let alone as reliable as real analogues / buttons. But, as said earlier, hatpic technology should greatily diminish such a legitimate concern, and in the next years it'll even improve.
However... what are the advantages of using digital buttons?
Actually there are many of them

-You can put both analogues, d-pad and buttons on the top screen, when you play with the console wide open
- You can put them all on the bottom screen, if you play in a classic DS-like portable style
- You can put some of them on the top screen, other on the bottom
- You can change size and position of single bottons
- You can customize the single parts, with special skins for the background, bottons and what else (they could be unlockable through completing Nintendo's version of Achievements/Trophies)
- Becoming the best emulator system ever. Yeah: to play older games with much bigger fidelity than ever, just select that console's control scheme, and go. Think about replaying Super Smash Bros. Melee with all your favourite Nintendo Gamecube analogues and buttons (the great A!), just as an example
- Letting developers creating special control setupus just for specific games. Like, a Street Fighter game having an arcade like setup, with simulated arcade sticks and arcade buttons, in conjunction with something similar to SSFIV's touch functions. Or, a Steel Battalion game where there are many things to touch on both sides of the top screen, for a bigger immersion in the game itself

Letting the customer him/herself decide the setup to use would make this console perfect for everyone, for every kind of customer / hand. And a great way to let people themselves customise the console, at least on the screen itself. What's also great about this design is that, if you rotate the console, it can become a good-looking sort-of-tablet device, which is something quite difficult when physical buttons are involved. And it'd be a foldable sort-of-tablet too. When rotated, there wouldn't be the "pad bars", the whole two screens would be used for surfing the web, eShop, and other functions.

Tell me (hopefully, without insulting me too much due to physicial buttons being lacking XD ) what do you think about this.

And this is the brand new hardware concept which I came up with. As said earlier, I'm 100% aware it's a different, risky concept, especially looking at how games on mobile and tablets which try to use on-ouch-analogues and screens, but with the help of haptic technology, there'd be so many advantages for the customers, but developers as well, giving to them much, much bigger gameplay possibilities on both touch screens, and not just the bottom one...great possibilities, given the technology I still remember I had to post other thoughts on there, I hope to remember that...and this time, posting as well.

It's definitely an out of the box idea, but I think there are better alternatives for Nintendo than to bank on a single device. Especially one that with this design would pose a fairly substantial risk of flopping if it isn't well received in practice.

My approach would probably be to make a Nintendo "family of devices". Same OS (or same Base OS anyways), have the devices share APIs, but different levels of hardware capability. Focus on making it easy for developers to upscale or downscale their software to easily port their game to both platforms. Basically create an ecosystem that will allow their devices to have a shared library without necessarily having to be the same device and still be able to focus on their own thing (grunt vs portability)

To go along with this create an account system that would allow you to play your games on both devices. So let's say you're playing a console game and you have to leave...well now if u have the Nintendo handheld in this family you can just take it with you and play it on the go (at least with digital games), albeit with lower graphical fidelity.

 

[Nightstick11]

Things I want to see from Nintendo:

(1) I would like them to at LEAST double their current internal development teams. It is clear there are separate teams for casual games, 3D Mario, Zelda, etc amd that is fine and dandy. Dedicate just as many that focus on experimental IPs. I miss that Nintendo dearly.

(2) Double their second-party studios. Again, I love all non-Mario and non-Zelda second-parties. Monolithsoft and Intelligent Systems in particular are top-five studios for me. Buy more. Greenlight whatever the fuck they wanna make.

(3) I honestly don't care about open account system but for the love of god OPEN THE VAULTS. PLEASE. Nintendo classics are way too valuable and lucrative I suppose for a PS+ type service but enough with the trickling releases. PUT THEM ALL UP!!

(4) More third-party collaborations. Why hasn't Mushroom Kingdom Hearts happened yet? Or Final Fantasy characters in Smash?

(5) Buy up defunct IPs and resurrect them. Nintendo is literally carrying the Japanese industry on its back and has been for a long, long time now. You know what would make the core love you? Revive dead IPs. Revive Ogre Battle or Chrono or Bomberman or Policenauts or Mega Man or what-have-you and the core and old-guard gamers will love you for life. You have the cash. Do it.

 

[Chindogg]

Things I want to see from Nintendo:

(1) I would like them to at LEAST double their current internal development teams. It is clear there are separate teams for casual games, 3D Mario, Zelda, etc amd that is fine and dandy. Dedicate just as many that focus on experimental IPs. I miss that Nintendo dearly.

(2) Double their second-party studios. Again, I love all non-Mario and non-Zelda second-parties. Monolithsoft and Intelligent Systems in particular are top-five studios for me. Buy more. Greenlight whatever the fuck they wanna make.

(3) I honestly don't care about open account system but for the love of god OPEN THE VAULTS. PLEASE. Nintendo classics are way too valuable and lucrative I suppose for a PS+ type service but enough with the trickling releases. PUT THEM ALL UP!!

(4) More third-party collaborations. Why hasn't Mushroom Kingdom Hearts happened yet? Or Final Fantasy characters in Smash?

(5) Buy up defunct IPs and resurrect them. Nintendo is literally carrying the Japanese industry on its back and has been for a long, long time now. You know what would make the core love you? Revive dead IPs. Revive Ogre Battle or Chrono or Bomberman or Policenauts or Mega Man or what-have-you and the core and old-guard gamers will love you for life. You have the cash. Do it.

They've been doing all of these actually.

In the past two or three years they've built and opened whole office buildings full of internal divisions in Osaka and Tokyo. They're working with many 2nd and third party studios will all sorts of collaborations, FE x SMT as an example. And of course they're looking at all avenues of resurrecting franchises. Bayo 2 wouldn't exist without them.

They're doing all these things, I think the issue is they're not doing them fast enough. Problem is a lot of these things take time.

 

[Empyrean Heaven]

Lesson #5 - Bow Down to Third Parties.

It's Nintendo's responsibility to make sure there's a steady stream of content for their consoles. However, since the SNES, it has been a major issue. Why? The company has consistently been apathetic towards, and in some cases even rejecting of third party support for their consoles. Nintendo has been able to survive this in the past by having good first party content and enough third party content to fill in the gaps, but it has gotten to a point that can only be described as pathetic. Sure, Ubisoft is giving support, but 1-2 games from Activision and absolutely nothing from Take-Two or EA...ESPECIALLY EA, is completely disgusting on Nintendo's part. And worse yet, I don't think they give a shit.

Nintendo, next time out, you need to get dev kits out ASAP to devs. Let devs make the great content, and assist them in doing so. Basically, you need to work hard to rebuild these bridges....but they may already be completely burnt.

 

[Neoxon]

I personally think Nintendo should stick with separate console & portable systems, as well as the second screen for portables. The latter is because I actually want them to maintain backwards compatibility.

As for the former, their consoles will be held back as a result....more so than they are already. The real solution is to listen up to third-parties, learn of their concerns, what they want, and answer their questions with worthwhile responses in hardware and software.

They also need to open up more studios, revive more projects and IPs (like they did for Bayonetta), partner up with more third parties (they're on the right track on this one now, just expand upon it), and GET MORE GAMES OUT....good ones, obviously.

 

[Anth0ny]

Lesson #5 - Bow Down to Third Parties.

It's Nintendo's responsibility to make sure there's a steady stream of content for their consoles. However, since the SNES, it has been a major issue. Why? The company has consistently been apathetic towards, and in some cases even rejecting of third party support for their consoles. Nintendo has been able to survive this in the past by having good first party content and enough third party content to fill in the gaps, but it has gotten to a point that can only be described as pathetic. Sure, Ubisoft is giving support, but 1-2 games from Activision and absolutely nothing from Take-Two or EA...ESPECIALLY EA, is completely disgusting on Nintendo's part. And worse yet, I don't think they give a shit.

Nintendo, next time out, you need to get dev kits out ASAP to devs. Let devs make the great content, and assist them in doing so. Basically, you need to work hard to rebuild these bridges....but they may already be completely burnt.

Absolutely the most important lesson of all.

Nintendo needs their own Cerny and it needs to be third parties FIRST when it comes to their next console. From what I can tell, PS4 is basically a dream console for third parties. There is NO reason why Nintendo can't create their own PS4 equivalent, besides their own stubbornness and incompetence.

 

[10k]

There won't be a next Nintendo console.

Their will be a handheld/home console hybrid. It will be called a "Binesol"

 

[Supermanisdead]

dual screens are never going away. next gen handheld will be bc with 3ds, even if it doesnt have 3d screen. two screens forever and i dont know why anyone wouldn't be happy with that. dual screen handheld gaming = fucking awesome.

 

[Neoxon]

dual screens are never going away. next gen handheld will be bc with 3ds, even if it doesnt have 3d screen. two screens forever and i dont know why anyone wouldn't be happy with that. dual screen handheld gaming = fucking awesome.

FINALLY, someone who gets it. I don't really understand the hate with two-screens.

 

[Mandoric]

I'm not sure it's possible to make a console that has parity with the industry standard AND still be under $250.

Neogaf economists/tech heads - is this a total bullshit proposal?

Yes, if Nintendo sticks to disruptive/countercyclical strategy: a box on par with the Xbone sans Kinect and messy/expensive OS-driven RAM solution, so basically a significantly gimped PS4 with 6GB RAM, should be doable around $250 in 2015. That's also around when they could cut loose the Wii U without burning loyalists too badly.

I don't think it would necessarily solve their problems though. Far, far too many burnt bridges to be a very attractive partner unless MS implodes completely over the next couple years.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I wonder if the 2DS is sort of an experiment, a way to test the waters with a new form factor. Perhaps their next handheld may have a single tall/vertically oriented screen? Kinda like this

What if it can be either horizontal or vertical depending on what case it's snapped into?

Wish I had the artistic skill to photoshop my idea.

 

[Reallink]

I suspect their roadmap is along the lines of the Fortaleza stuff in the leaked Ms roadmap.

Decoupled entirely from the TV, as an oculus rift or google glasses style headset.

If they do converge to one single device rather than a handheld and a home console, it would probably have a 'base station' charging dock that also allows for tv out and to connect additional controllers for same screen multiplayer.

In 5 years time they'd be able to be pushing WiiU quality graphics in a device about as big as a pack of playing cards.

5 Years for a Wii U par Vita TV? Try 1 or 2. Mali T-760 is 330 GFLOP's.

 

[Zalman]

It's simple. Don't overprice your hardware, and don't release it before you're comfortable with the software lineup. I'd argue the price wasn't an issue with the Wii U, but the fact that it had no games for the longest was a massive turn off for people.

 

[Mpl90]

Well it could be a potential law suit for patent infringent, maybe. The design pictured is pretty much the one of that tablet/phone hybrid that has been in several electronic trade shows. Cant recall the brand now...Samsun possibly.

Actually, you're right. In the sense, I expressed the post in the wrong way. In that case, I was referring to the whole foldable design + haptic screen concept. The foldable concept is indeed taken from a Samsung prototype...heck, in my original post I've linked the video showing it.
Moreover, the solution from the prototype is the one by far less costly. Foldable OLED screens will be a thing, with mass market production, starting in 2016, so that' a no, especially considering the 199.99 limit and the possibility of haptic screens

The other thing is the haptic feedback. There's a small company i know of that has a screen that simulate textures, they've been around for years pitching the concept but as far as i know the screens are yet to be mass produced. What companies with that type of tech you have in mind? Because for a 2015/6 device a screen tech that could simulate responsive and good feeling buttons seems a bit way of. And more importantly in cost terms.

Eh, that's one thing I need to look for. I don't know what company would fit for supplying haptic screens that allow having digital buttons with a good feeling. I hope someone more competent than me could help in this XD

The only thing that seems certain is that both handheld and console device will share the same architecture with different power envelops. No way Nintendo is dumb enough to skip doing that yet again XD

Answers bolded.

 

[Majukun]

Moneyhat games

Moneyhat more like Monster Hunter and less like Bayonetta.

Proven sucess > awesome cult games

 

[Glass Rebel]

Revisiting this thread in the light of Mario 3D World's lack of impact on the Japanese market and the discussions we've had in the Japanese sales-thread.

Basically the argument was, that one of the reasons 3D World didn't drive Wii U sales was that one can already get their "Mario fix" on 3DS thanks to 3D Land. Since their handheld games are quickly approaching the level of complexity of most of their console games, they seem to be cutting into their console counterparts.

It seems to be somewhat relevant to point 2 in my opening post.

 

[daxgame]

Lesson 6: Don't read GAF
Especially when they say to release games on iOS, go third party, go out with just one hardware, go super powerful, give checks to third parties

 

[AzaK]

5. Care about the core gaming audience. The ones who spend the most and want to buy a system day one. The ones who will talk up your console if it's great. The ones who love advancements in gameplay AND tech. Build a gaming machine for them first and the rest will come. If you won't, then don't talk like you are. Be honest, unlike with Wii U.

 

[Azure J]

Revisiting this thread in the light of Mario 3D World's lack of impact on the Japanese market and the discussions we've had in the Japanese sales-thread.

Basically the argument was, that one of the reasons 3D World didn't drive Wii U sales was that one can already get their "Mario fix" on 3DS thanks to 3D Land. Since their handheld games are quickly approaching the level of complexity of most of their console games, they seem to be cutting into their console counterparts.

It seems to be somewhat relevant to point 2 in my opening post.

When people bring this one point up, I really feel like its more because Wii U is a turkey and 3DS is entering DS' slipstream moreso than similar experiences fighting each other. Unless its a situation like NSMB2-NSMBU, I think people understand that there's going to be enough differces in a top tier production for Nintendo's handheld and console that it'd be worthwhile to look into the other if one only owns one of the two.

Then again, Smash 4 thread's kinda enlightening on how far that sentiment really goes. ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Clefargle]

What if it can be either horizontal or vertical depending on what case it's snapped into?

Wish I had the artistic skill to photoshop my idea.

I've hav a similar idea, imagine a tablet folded in the middle vertically. Put hinges on the back of the fold and put circle pads and buttons around the edges. There would be buttons aplenty, enough to where it could be played like a 3ds horizontally, or function as one tall vertical screen vertically. When on the go it acts as a horizontal portable with two screens. When it's at home with its streaming hdmi out capable dock it functions similarly to the Wii u pad. The ergonocs would be hard to figure out, but it could work.

 

[Glass Rebel]

When people bring this one point up, I really feel like its more because Wii U is a turkey and 3DS is entering DS' slipstream moreso than similar experiences fighting each other. Unless its a situation like NSMB2-NSMBU, I think people understand that there's going to be enough differces in a top tier production for Nintendo's handheld and console that it'd be worthwhile to look into the other if one only owns one of the two.

Then again, Smash 4 thread's kinda enlightening on how far that sentiment really goes. ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

I can see why this would be the case for the group of dedicated Nintendo fans but it seems that to mainstream audiences one Mario Kart and one 3D Mario is enough and on a superficial level the handheld games have come pretty close to what is offered on consoles. It's kind of a reverse situation the PSP struggled with for some time. I guess it's hard to determine what the real issue is with the Wii U floundering, maybe the performance of Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros. will shed a light on this.

 

[Taker666]

Don't worry about backwards compatibility..the masses have shown they don't care (and it costs you money).

Don't bother about saving consumers hundreds of dollars by allowing last gens controllers to be used. ..the masses have shown they don't care (people just notice the initial price tag +hardware power....little else when it comes to value. Screw them over on peripheral prices like everyone else)

Your branding was shit with the 3DS it was shit with the Wii U. Sort it out next time.

Don't include an expensive peripheral as standard unless you have the software to truly sell it to the public.

Most 3rd parties will not port their games to your hardware....regardless of power. The only way you'll likely get support is through bribes (perhaps by lending out your franchise characters).

Don't bother trying to half compete with Sony/Microsoft..either go the whole way..or in a completely different direction.

Don't skimp on marketing..in quantity or quality.

The Wii Gamer doesn't care about sequels..you want to attract that uber casual consumer again...it has to be with something entirely new.

Buy up some classic franchises. Concentrate on some strong niches largely unsupported by other machines.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

Looks too big to keep using in the street or metro, imo
Remember that the DS it's huge in Japan because of this

If they use that new bendable screen tech and still manage to have touch screen then I can see this definitely working well.

 

[18-Volt]

First of all kill the Wii and DS names. They're long done.

For handheld, something both innovative and powerful. It has to be on par with or better than Wii U graphically and its screen has to have a monster resolution. For innovative gimmick (that affects gameplay), a haptic feedback hologram screen would nail it.

For console, buy Valve/steam and work with them. Leave all software and graphics to them, you guys can take care of all the gimmick stuff and 1st party titles. Valve can also fix the eshop mess.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I've hav a similar idea, imagine a tablet folded in the middle vertically. Put hinges on the back of the fold and put circle pads and buttons around the edges. There would be buttons aplenty, enough to where it could be played like a 3ds horizontally, or function as one tall vertical screen vertically. When on the go it acts as a horizontal portable with two screens. When it's at home with its streaming hdmi out capable dock it functions similarly to the Wii u pad. The ergonocs would be hard to figure out, but it could work.

Ah. Found a product similar to what I think would be great:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KhxOX1fevA

Think about if the next Nintendo handheld was similar in form factor to in iPod Touch, but came with something like this.

Load it with a quad core Cortex-A57 and a AMD GPU solution. Then release the next home console version as an octo core Cortex-A57 with a bigger GPU solution. Wait 3-5 years, and then release the home console in a completely portable version once again. Rinse Repeat.

Most importantly, carry backwards compatibility forward.

 

[Glass Joe]

I agree that consolidating their console and handheld lines is the way to go. It's not the GBA days anymore where they can quickly port an SNES game and call it a day. Now they have to spend considerable resources to produce a handheld title. Nintendo is just not big enough to do this for two lines.

A handheld that docks to the TV would be the most logical solution for next gen.

As a side note, anyone remember the GBA Player for Gamecube and the Gameboy Player for SNES? I'm not sure how feasible a USB attachment for Wii U would be, but perhaps there could be a software emulator solution. Right now they seem to be taking the best Wii U feature (Miiverse) and applying it to their handheld, when they really need to do the reverse: Figure out a way to leverage their handheld strength to their console. Maybe for example, digital owners of Kid Icarus Uprising 3DS can play it on their TV via Wii U, with the gamepad being the second screen?

 

[Mpl90]

Bumping, because this could be relevant for the power talk

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...ndustry’s-8Gb-LPDDR4-Mobile-DRAM#.UsFf--ouLbU

Summary: 4GB LPDDR4 DRAM (34GB/s on a 64x bus) being already used next year for tablets and smartphones. In 2016, it should come for cheap enough, shouldn't it?

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

Make a low cost system. Wii U is way too expensive for what it offers.

Edit: wait, this thread is old? lol

 

[Coolwhip]

Good OP. Completely agree and tbh I think this is what Nintendo will do aswell. Similar architectures, 1 screen and note sure about the backward compatibility. They could drop that if they drop the DS and Wii name.

Call the console "Nintendo" and the portable "Nintendo Portable".

 

[bomblord1]

Continue down the path they are going because they will never again achieve spec parity with the competition. It's impossible without other divisions to offset the loses.

Also I'm calling next generation being a hybrid portable home console with a docking station to connect to your tv it just makes too much sense given the direction they are going. (incredibly low power draw on home system feature parity between portables and handhelds and the regent merge of their handheld and home console division)

Bumping because holy crap, don't ask me how I remembered this.

 

[panama chief]

Well damn. Nice job! hahahahaha

 

[FunkyDealer]

Nintendo reads GAF confirmed.

quality necromancing btw

 

[Duxxy3]

.

 

[OfficerRaichu15]

Damn nice guess lol.

 

[Zedark]

Bumping because holy crap also, don't ask me how I found this.

Looks like Nintendo ninjas weren't happy with this fellow guessing their future plans

 

[Strider]

Did you just give away the fact you got banned on your first account and made a new one? lol

Bomblord1 finds Bomblord's post from years ago

 

[bomblord1]

Did you just give away the fact you got banned on your first account and made a new one? lol

Bomblord1 finds Bomblord's post from years ago

It was actually a self requested ban I didn't get in trouble for anything (ie I messaged a mod and said hey can you ban me) long story.

 

[mStudios]

It was actually a self requested ban I didn't get in trouble for anything (ie I messaged a mod and said hey can you ban me) long story.

we have time

 

[bomblord1]

we have time

It had to do with an off hand comment on gaf calling me a "true pervert" jokingly after a somewhat famous thread. My SO seeing it and becoming upset and me wanting to make amends.

I messaged a mod said hey can you ban me. They verified I was serious and then I was banned. I'm no longer with that person and I really don't feel like going into more detail.

 

[N.Grim]

Nice