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Next Generation of Nintendo Hardware - Lessons to take from Wii U and 3DS

Glass Rebel

Member
In the light of the 2DS announcement and the Wii U price drop I wanted to take the opportunity to look back at both both devices post-launch, trying to analyze what went wrong and finally propose not a solution but an option to what path the company could take with their next hardware iterations. I will largely focus on hardware and software development more than software content and third party games since I feel that these have numerous threads dedicated to them. Feel free to discuss them though.

Lesson 1: Value is important, so is price

To start with, this is something Nintendo got right last generation but wrong with both the 3DS and the Wii U. Launching a handheld at $249 and a console at $349 (or $299 for the model that might as well not exist) were both terrible decisions. That's not to say that one can't sell hardware at that price. It's just that Nintendo can't. If you compare them to their direct competitors the only thing Nintendo the others don't is Nintendo games. When it comes to third party games, hardware, online and community features, multimedia functions and entertainment services, Nintendo is lacking in every single area. Microsoft and Sony on the other hand, offer all these things and their own set of exclusives. 3DS fares similarly compared to tablets. Initial sales and the quick pricedrops on both systems showed that Nintendo could not provide the games to make up for the difference and neither of the "gimmicks" (3D and Wii U Pad) were able to catch the markets attention. Where does this leave Nintendo?

It's hard to imagine them catching up, basically skipping an entire generation, considering how much trouble they had to adopt to this one with frequent delays or droughts plaguing both their platforms. And it isn't a given that a similarly powered console would fare much better, given how the GameCube performed. So why not look at their handheld business pre-3DS and go the budget route? Obviously budget does not mean the antiquated solutions they have currently employed either and as far as OS, UI and online functionality goes, they need to drastically improve.

Lesson 2: Two platforms is one too many...

As I mentioned earlier, for the last few years Nintendo has consistently failed to provide a full software release schedule for at least one of their systems, the worst offender being the Wii during its last ~2 years. Not only have they underestimated difficulties in software development but also unreasonably expected third parties to pick up the slack in their place. Unlike Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo is in the unique position that first party software dominates their platforms and is directly linked to their success in the market. With rising development costs, third party relations in the gutter and Nintendo's conservative approach to expansion it will only get worse.

For a while I was thinking a hybrid of some sort would be their best course of action. I saw myself confirmed when they showed the Wii U and when they announced that they had combined both the console and handheld hardware department. Thinking about it though, outright removing a potential second stream of income is

Lesson 3: ...Two screens maybe too

The dual screen setup of the NDS might have run its course. It was a novel concept giving birth to many great games and it's still convenient to have a map or a menu on the lower screen but on both the 3DS and Wii U it's mostly, well, maps or menus. And off-screen play, I guess. With the added real estate of a larger screen with higher resolution the need for a second screen would largely disappear and regardless of how I feel about it, the second screen simply isn't crucial to many people. With Nintendo failing to justify it, it might be for the best to drop this concept again. It reduces manufacturing costs and brings them back to the standard established by the rest of the industry.

Lesson 4: Indies are your best friend

Praise where praise is due: Nintendo's advances in the indie scene led by Dan Adelman have been an immense improvement over the wild west situation on Wii and great in their own regard. While they cannot count on third parties to port their games, indies have shown to be very interested in porting their titles to the Wii U. The real lesson to take from this is however what a difference it makes to make development cheap and easy and to accommodate developers. Unity on Wii U and the Web Framework are great advances in this direction.

Conclusion

How to apply this knowledge to create a product? I'm not a hardware engineer nor am I the CEO of a multibillion dollar company but here is an idea:

Taking a small slice of Apple's approach to hardware with the iPhone and iPad, how about a unified Nintendo platform that is compatible between handheld and console? Imagine a single touchscreen handheld for $149-169 and an obviously more powerful console for $199-249 sharing the same basic inputs and underlying architecture targeting indie games, mid-sized titles, Nintendo productions any anyone who wants to hop on. Any game developed on the handheld could theoretically work on the console and vice-versa with the console version rendering at a higher resolution, more effects etc. and each with their own featuresets if necessary (touch controls, splitscreen...).

I really don't want to go too much in-depth with this but at least conceptually I think it has potential and I wouldn't be surprised if we see something along those lines from them in a few years (with the usual Nintendo caveats, obviously). What do you guys think?
 
Lesson #1 Good Games = Sales

I also think something important is marketing, as a lot don't even know the Wii U exists. The Price Cut and bundled WWHD will help, I'm buying one now.
 

z0m3le

Banned
Most important lesson? Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Not enough resources to have multiple types of baskets.

IE; unified platform for both handheld and console going forward is key to a long term success of Nintendo. Having both types of systems is also very important to remain profitable.
 

SoulUnison

Banned
Hey, hey, I love the lower screen on the DS and 3DS, even when it's just a map/menu or a way to offload UI elements from the "action" screen.

That said, they tried dual-screens with the DS and it worked, so they kept it for the 3DS. Apparently this isn't a popular opinion, but I *love* stereoscopic 3D, and have never had an eye strain issue or anything, even during multiple-hour long gaming sessions. I hope that they bring the glasses-free 3D to their next handheld going forward, and improve it with the technology of the time, instead of abandoning it for something completely different.

Honestly, if they basically made a 3DS XL with improved tech and dual analog pads, that'd be the perfect handheld, to me.
 
I suspect their roadmap is along the lines of the Fortaleza stuff in the leaked Ms roadmap.

Decoupled entirely from the TV, as an oculus rift or google glasses style headset.

If they do converge to one single device rather than a handheld and a home console, it would probably have a 'base station' charging dock that also allows for tv out and to connect additional controllers for same screen multiplayer.

In 5 years time they'd be able to be pushing WiiU quality graphics in a device about as big as a pack of playing cards.
 

DonMigs85

Member
I wonder if the 2DS is sort of an experiment, a way to test the waters with a new form factor. Perhaps their next handheld may have a single tall/vertically oriented screen? Kinda like this

1229994_123322917838099_965621598_n.png
 

-Horizon-

Member
They should've dropped the "Wii" tagline. Putting a letter after it wasn't a good choice to denote a successor to the Wii. Not after having other games like Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Music. No wonder people didn't know it was a new console.
Next system better not have "Wii" anywhere near the name, even Wii 2 or Wii 3 won't cut it.
They should plan the reveal better. Focusing on the new controller is good and all but not showing the body of the system at all to the media was the wrong move.
Some features like 3D is ok but not at the cost of making the system weaker or cutting corners to be able to balance out a price point.
 

Drago

Member
Lesson 1: always listen to forum posters
Lesson 2: make mature video games for a mature audience
Lesson 3: close down the company five years later

just make a competent account system between 3DS and WiiU and all future Nintendo products, pleeeease
 

GunBR

Member
I wonder if the 2DS is sort of an experiment, a way to test the waters with a new form factor. Perhaps their next handheld may have a single tall/vertically oriented screen? Kinda like this

1229994_123322917838099_965621598_n.png

Looks too big to keep using in the street or metro, imo
Remember that the DS it's huge in Japan because of this
 

JordanN

Banned
If Nintendo wants to sell Nintendo boxes (i.e a console that's only good for its first party because third party relations are in shambles), they should price it $99-$159 and keep it that way forever.

Wii U showed how a much of scam it is after PS4 cost $50 more than it while boosting far better graphics and third party support. Even a slightly lower price is bad since last gen systems can still compete (i.e PS3/360).

Edit: Another problem was Nintendo's own game development. They let 7 years slip by and had nothing ready for HD because they just started learning.
 

harmonize

Member
Lesson 1: always listen to forum posters
Lesson 2: make mature video games for a mature audience
Lesson 3: close down the company five years later
But how would they make games on smartphones if they close down the company? Doesn't sound like a solid plan.
 

Valnen

Member
We get a new mainline Pokemon game every year, plus tons of spinoffs

Is it not enough?!

I think the 3DS would have sold a lot more even at it's launch of $250 if it launched with Pokemon X and Y. Enough so that it might still be $250.
 

ASIS

Member
I don't think Lesson 2 is true. At least not anymore. Yeah first half of 2013 was a bit of a slump on the Wii U part, but take the whole year, with the whole line up of the 2 platforms and the wealth of games is astounding, Nintendo usually puts out that much content in 2 or maybe even 3 years, let alone one.
 

Drago

Member
I think the 3DS would have sold a lot more even at it's launch of $250 if it launched with Pokemon X and Y.

Pokemon Black and White definitely launched too close to the 3DS in the West (though there was a few months difference in Japan). Wonder if that hindered sales at all... new Pokemon definitely would've helped the new system a ton but there was still a long software drought on the system until around November 2011 and most of 2012.

At least Pokemon this year is going to help keep the current momentum of the system going. And I still think B/W2 on DS was a bonehead idea, but I know why they did it.

But how would they make games on smartphones if they close down the company? Doesn't sound like a solid plan.

how could i miss this joke
 
Team Hybrid.

Since they can't get third-parties, they can consolidate all their teams on one platform. All your Nintendo games on a single platform.

This might even be enough to sway people who wouldn't buy a 3DS or Wii U, but would buy one piece of hardware for the library of both combined.

This allows them to only have to release a single NSMB, Mario Kart, Smash, etc. on the platform. That means more experimentation, which is better for gamers and ultimately better for Nintendo when they find the next big thing.

They're losing money on the Wii U anyway, so they don't have to worry about "lost profits" from selling hardware.

They gave up on making a console that's cutting edge, so why bother making one at all? That's the one benefit of a larger box over a handheld. And it matters less and less as handheld graphics (3DS and Vita) improve to the level they're at.
 

Dacvak

No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
I think your assessment is spot on, but you lost me in your last paragraph. Gamers change direction all the time, and it's hard to predict where lightning will strike next. But I could see Nintendo winning back a huge number of customers by doing one thing (something they could easily do with current hardware).

What does everyone, regardless of company loyalty, love about Nintendo? Their games. New and old, Nintendo is best defined by their games.

So what does Nintendo need to do to win people back? Give them games. Give them tons, and tons of games. And no, I'm not talking about new software - that will come at the rate it always has. I'm talking about their old products.

If Nintendo offered a PS+ -like subscription service, or maybe even something free, where you got a HUGE selection of their back catalog, that would be incredible. They could even introduce a new type of service where you get you choose what games you'd like to "own" in your collection. But Nintendo has hundreds and hundreds of games, and good enough relationships with third-parties that they could get them in on this service as well.

If the Wii U had literally all of your favorite SNES, N64, GBA, GB, NES, etc. games available for stupid-cheap (as they fucking should be), the Wii U suddenly becomes a much more sexy console. Now imagine putting all of those games on the 3DS, as well, and being able to take them anywhere. Now put in cloud saving for all of those games, so you can easily play on the go or at home, and you've got a home-freaking-run.

Nintendo has been sitting on their back catalog of absolute gold for years, and they only release games a couple times a week, and for WAY more money than the average consumer would pay. But if you could go after the older generation's nostalgia, while simultaneously releasing new Pokemon (and other) games for the younger generation, you win. You fucking win, Nintendo.

They could seriously sell any hardware they wanted if they just tapped into that almost-endless well of retro titles. Their virtual console is a fucking joke. I genuinely believe they have literally one developer working on that at any given time, as those emulators are barebones. We've seen much, much better emulators created by the community over the years for the Wii and DS.

Anyway, that's my rant. Nintendo's problem isn't as unsolveable as people think. This might not be the absolute end-all - Nintendo has a ton of problems it needs to tackle - but it certainly would help move consoles. Admittedly I haven't really thought about the repercussions post-this-generation of opening up their back catalog, but it honestly seems like this is the time to do it. Or maybe just wait until next gen, when shit is really on the line.

Either way, a Nintendo Netflix would absolutely solve some serious sales problems for Nintendo.
 
Whatever it is, it's definitely going to be something crazy like the Nintendo DS was for its time. I really hope they muster something up, cause I knew the DS was special on paper. Their next batch of hardware needs to accomplish this as well.

I'd like for Nintendo to be the first to jump into VR full force, but something tells me that Sony will surprise us all and be the first to pull it off (as far as console makers go).

Something I'd love, is for their hardware to finally have a good OS, but I don't see it happening. They just need to make sure that whatever experience it is they're offering, it has to be extremely unique.
 

Kokonoe

Banned
Nice read, OP. I share similar thoughts. I think going the hybrid route (trying to be overly unique while putting expensive hardware) really sets them back. It's either one or the other and they should pick one.
 

EloquentM

aka Mannny
Nice read, OP. I share similar thoughts. I think going the hybrid route (trying to be overly unique while putting expensive hardware) really sets them back. It's either one or the other and they should pick one.


Team Hybrid.

Since they can't get third-parties, they can consolidate all their teams on one platform. All your Nintendo games on a single platform.

This might even be enough to sway people who wouldn't buy a 3DS or Wii U, but would buy one piece of hardware for the library of both combined.

This allows them to only have to release a single NSMB, Mario Kart, Smash, etc. on the platform. That means more experimentation, which is better for gamers and ultimately better for Nintendo when they find the next big thing.

They're losing money on the Wii U anyway, so they don't have to worry about "lost profits" from selling hardware.

They gave up on making a console that's cutting edge, so why bother making one at all? That's the one benefit of a larger box over a handheld. And it matters less and less as handheld graphics (3DS and Vita) improve to the level they're at.
Because when both consoles are actually selling they're making MUCH more money with two than with just one (let's not forget the multiple different version of handhelds that Nintendo puts out which people by more than one of I.E. XL and now 2DS) . This fuck up with the Wii U is not going to make them change the philosophy especially since the 3DS is the only thing keeping the ship afloat at the moment.
 

Grief.exe

Member
Nintendo needs to drop 3D. It costs a significant amount of hardware overhead for essentially a gimmick.

They need to consolidate their home console and handheld offerings.
Every unit comes with a hardware dock that connects to your TV. Nintendo can focus all of their development on one console and don't succumb to their early generation slump.

The writing is on the wall for this change. Nintendo has already consolidated hardware divisions, they are pushing the mobile ARM chip, and they haven't pushed graphical innovation since GameCube.
3rd parties don't support their home console, but they support the mobile offering.
 

bomblord

Banned
First and foremost Nintendo you need to learn that people who post on internet forums know the market a lot better than the people with Business degrees that you've been paying to do focus tests and market analysis for the last 50 + years.

With this one piece of information you will surely succeed.
 
If Nintendo offered a PS+ -like subscription service, or maybe even something free, where you got a HUGE selection of their back catalog, that would be incredible. They could even introduce a new type of service where you get you choose what games you'd like to "own" in your collection. But Nintendo has hundreds and hundreds of games, and good enough relationships with third-parties that they could get them in on this service as well.

If the Wii U had literally all of your favorite SNES, N64, GBA, GB, NES, etc. games available for stupid-cheap (as they fucking should be), the Wii U suddenly becomes a much more sexy console. Now imagine putting all of those games on the 3DS, as well, and being able to take them anywhere. Now put in cloud saving for all of those games, so you can easily play on the go or at home, and you've got a home-freaking-run.

Nintendo has been sitting on their back catalog of absolute gold for years, and they only release games a couple times a week, and for WAY more money than the average consumer would pay. But if you could go after the older generation's nostalgia, while simultaneously releasing new Pokemon (and other) games for the younger generation, you win. You fucking win, Nintendo.

There are a few semantic technical issues with your proposal (N64 games running emulated on 3DS? I doubt it...they could only marginally improve Ocarina of Time's graphics and it ran natively; also compare with PSP's limited N64 emulation), but the main problem is that it's not as valuable to Nintendo as selling off their catalog title by title.

Nintendo HAS to be raking in the dough by selling the games individually. $5 for SMB1, and AGAIN for 3DS ownership, and another $1 for Wii transfer users? That's as much as $11 for one consumer for Super Mario Bros. 1 (assuming there was no ambassadorship).

Augh, I got distracted by Internet and forgot my point.

Ah yes, there's also "how do you make it work"? You could have a PS+ model where games get phased out and redeemed titles remain available to subscribers, or you could use a Netflix/movie model, but that presents a "looming deadline" to finish your games, a feeling few enjoy and would be very "un-Nintendo-like."

...

I would really like such a service, I'm just being a realist about the business ramifications...

...

Eh, no one notices my posts anyway. :p
 
Nintendo needs to drop 3D. It costs a significant amount of hardware overhead for essentially a gimmick.

They need to consolidate their home console and handheld offerings.
Every unit comes with a hardware dock that connects to your TV. Nintendo can focus all of their development on one console and don't subcum to their early generation slump.

Subcum? Genius.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
GAAAAAAAAMES. Lots of GAAAAMES for your device that primarily plays GAAAAAAMES would be just swell.

This is all they need to learn. It's all about the games. Most of this year's WiiU games should have been launched in the first three months, if they had noone would have talked about a lack of games.
 

EloquentM

aka Mannny
Nintendo needs to drop 3D. It costs a significant amount of hardware overhead for essentially a gimmick.

They need to consolidate their home console and handheld offerings.
Every unit comes with a hardware dock that connects to your TV. Nintendo can focus all of their development on one console and don't subcum to their early generation slump.
Gimmicks aren't a bad thing and only unnecessary when they don't bring anything to move the medium forward. Most standard features of today were the gimmicks of yesterday.
 

-Horizon-

Member
They can't go through droughts like what the Wii U just went through and 3DS experienced in its first year. They can't depend on just 1st party support and the odd 3rd party game here and there. Get those indies (which Nintendo are currently on the right track of doing), sit those third parties down and come to some sort of beneficial agreement. We don't need any more "unprecedented relationships".
 

Lumyst

Member
I've wondered, what is it about the "consolidating handheld and console" stuff? Is it the single "hybrid" console or is it to, say, use similar architectures in the handheld and console so that knowledge and experience gained making games for one set of hardware can be applied to the other?
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
I would love a handheld that could properly upscale to display on a TV instead of just stretching out.

Also, I can't take a step back in graphics. Mario Kart looks amazing. I want to see more Nintendo IP looking like that.
 

Fauv

Member
Gimmicks aren't a bad thing and only unnecessary when they don't bring anything to move the medium forward. Most standard features of today were the gimmicks of yesterday.

Yup, and if the GameCube taught Nintendo anything, it's that if they don't do something different (gimmicks) then they are completely left behind. The Wii and DS were made with that strategy in mind (motion controls and two screens/touchscreen), and they were both extremely successful. And in my opinion, the 3DS and WiiU were both a product of this thinking once again, only this time the "gimmicks" (3D and gamepad) have not been compelling enough to drive interest and the tech behind them have left them unable to keep the cost down like they did with both Wii and DS.

I think Nintendo would be foolish to go back in their next round of hardware and try to make a "traditional" console like the GameCube again, but they need to find something that is both novel and inexpensive.
 

jmizzal

Member
At this point I would be genuinely surprised if Nintendo makes another home console after Wii U.

They made one after the N64, they made one after the Gamecube, they even made systems after the virtual boy, so why would they stop making consoles 1 low selling console after having a huge selling console?
 

MegalonJJ

Banned
Iwata ought to walk straight into the R&D labs and say the following:

"What was that? An exhibition?!" *pointing at Wii U*

"Now try again! This time with feewing."
 
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