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Opinion Game Dev Neil Druckmann: "There are games that are just comfort food. This is not one of those"

Jun 28, 2013
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Of course Neil Druckmann would say that. Thats not even the reason I hate the game, but hes lying anyway.. which I hate. Its not even the diversity that bothers me, its that it bothers me with diversity. Its forced, it should be passive, nonexistent. I would like this game if it didnt have a agenda. But its not even a game, a agendaless movie? No thanks. Typical zombie movie. Get Amy back on Last of Us.
What dumb shit is this? How can you hate the game when you haven't played it?
Back? She never had anything to do with it.
I'd like to know what it is that you considered "forced" diversity and how you would implement "passive" diversity in this game.
I was trying to combine all these comedic Last of Us complains into one paragraph. I was trying so hard to be stupid. Im happy I came off as a true poptart. Ill try to b more obvious next time.
 

REE Machine

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The whole thing about Christians being anti gay is a pretty outdated stereotype. In the South we have many out gay pastors and this has been the norm for a decade or so.

This game seems to rely on those outdated stereotypes which is probably the main reason Christians would be offended by it.

It does seem to be a useful way to distract from any criticisms of glorifying violence
Tell that to the christian woman that voted for Pete and when she found put he was gay she wanted to revoke her ballet and said "well does he atleast read the bible"

lmao stereotypes, this shit still in society and rooted in religion.
Being gay is bad
Touchn lil boys #illallowit
Righr....
 
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Gold_Loot

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Feb 17, 2013
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Get out of here...what do you know about christianity.
Most pastors and church people are gay. They sleep constantly with kids...that's your faith right there.
TLOU is mild compared to what church people do to kids
Seems you don’t know the difference between a paster and a priest. Also , religion and Christianity are two different things.
 

Rien

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As a Christian, there's nothing ND can do in this game to persuade me to go against my faith and what I think is right/wrong.

I have a BIG problem with the idea of trying to force gender politics/LBGQ into the main plot of the second game. Many people like me loved the first game and now I feel like i'm being forced to go against my beliefs and support something I don't if I want to play the game. It's so forced and unnecessary. The first game was amazing and did not need to go down that path as the main plot.

I will probably just buy it when its around 20 bucks now, which is a shame given I loved the first game and double dipped with the ps3 and remaster on ps4.

And i'm not bashing the game. I just wish ND would have continue with the story of Joel and Ellie trying to survive a brutal world with the clickers with the amazing combat etc and left the LGBQ push out.

I have no doubt the gameplay/quality will be amazing like the first game based on the footage shown.

So the words on extreme violence doesn’t makes you not want to play that game as a Christian. It’s the inclusion of lesbian caracter and a story around it?
 
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-Arcadia-

Branded for life by her misdeeds
Aug 20, 2019
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As much as this game is social justice aids, you can really tell that it’s an honest, personal expression of the artist, and means a lot to him/them. In that sense, I appreciate it.

If society ever comes back to sanity, this will be one that I’ll probably play and enjoy, with the understanding that it came from troubled times.
 

KOS MOS

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The media will praise Ellie because she is a powerful minority lgbtq woman who kills white """"Christians."""""
 

GreenAlien

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Forced Diversity: = Diversity that is distracting from the story.
Diversity done right: = if it is essential to the story

I think TLoU2 has both.
Ellies lesbian relationship seems to be very essential, you can't really tell the story they want to tell without it.
If Abby is transgender, that would be really hard to explain in the setting and not add anything, as far as can be said right now, to the story. That would be forced diversity.
 
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REE Machine

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Forced Diversity: = Diversity that is distracting from the story.
Diversity done right: = if it is essential to the story

I think TLoU2 has both.
Ellies lesbian relationship seems to be very essential, you can't really tell the story they want to tell without it.
That whole thing is made up your second point also id delete it because someone may not want to know a character name or their sexual orientation
 
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REE Machine

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Is that what people pissed off about!? If that’s the case then I really have nothing to worry about.
I dont remember people being this pissed off about christian stuff with far cry 5 and that was way more heavily themed, tlou2 so far we know they are a cult not linked to christianity and practice ritualistic sacrifice
 

dDoc

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This one is including such themes.. so what? Ellie is allowed, like other people in the world, to be bisexual or lesbian ... this game is exploring what the character they presented / outed / revealed in the DLC would be once they reached that age (19 years old).

In the gameplay section they showed recently a convo is overheard by Ellie from a lesbo soldier telling a dude she's happy she's spending a shift with her lesbo friend.

Abby looks transgender bigger than many a male.

Who knows how many more such instances are in the game?

The human race is mostly over in that universe if a lot of people are gay, just saying.
 

Danjin44

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I dont remember people being this pissed off about christian stuff with far cry 5 and that was way more heavily themed, tlou2 so far we know they are a cult not linked to christianity and practice ritualistic sacrifice
Even if it’s Christianity, through out history we saw people take any religion too far and beyond obsession....I don’t see any problem with those people being christianity cult group.
 
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dDoc

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well then if guess if your Christian you must be a pedophile...

Seriously people, the character is modelled after an actual women

I dont think religion has anything to do with this, at least not for me. Its the "forced" ND agenda thats getting people riled. We all know they are a talented dev, just cut this crap already and improve gameplay.

And yes modelled on a real woman thats on steroids. Guess those will be scarce during the apocalypse
 

Dodkrake

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Not affiliated by this, but just heard some interesting thoughts on "diversity" and The Last of Us 2 here:

 

DForce

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Forced Diversity: = Diversity that is distracting from the story.
Diversity done right: = if it is essential to the story

I think TLoU2 has both.
Ellies lesbian relationship seems to be very essential, you can't really tell the story they want to tell without it.
If Abby is transgender, that would be really hard to explain in the setting and not add anything, as far as can be said right now, to the story. That would be forced diversity.

The character is not trans. It was completely made up and now people are running with it.
 
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zcaa0g

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"and a minority that won't accept any depiction of diversity at all."

Diversity for diversity's sake is disingenuous and dishonest.
 

Doom85

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Just because a woman is bulky doesnt mean they are transgenderd, god the fallacies people throw are retarded.

I think the argument is that in reality a woman would not have access to the sort of diet needed to maintain that level of muscle given the scarcity of food in such a setting. But it's one of those things I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for, I mean by that argument I could point out that a working battery is irrelevant to their car since the gas should be unusable after twenty years (hell, the game even puts focus on it by Bill telling Joel that he'd be surprised how many cars still have gas in them). Neither of these things are breaking my immersion.
 

REE Machine

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I dont think religion has anything to do with this, at least not for me. Its the "forced" ND agenda thats getting people riled. We all know they are a talented dev, just cut this crap already and improve gameplay.

And yes modelled on a real woman thats on steroids. Guess those will be scarce during the apocalypse
We have a guy in jere who wait play the game because it doesnt match their christian values lol

1 gameplay looks to be improved barely what previews say and 2 what would be considered not forced? She is gay, we knew in the dlc hell bill waS gay in part 1. Its not like they decided to turn her gay for this game, that then I would understand. But define forced? It seems to play an integral part in the story that something may happen to her partner, much like what happened in days gone,is that forced heterosexuality because he is trying to find his wife etc? Is it forced because he is straight?
 

KOS MOS

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I dont remember people being this pissed off about christian stuff with far cry 5 and that was way more heavily themed, tlou2 so far we know they are a cult not linked to christianity and practice ritualistic sacrifice


Far cry 5 was a weird situation because the cult leader ended up being right in the end. I remember there were people on the right and the left hating on that game. The left hated on it because of things like that one npc quest giver who said "Obama lovin libtards" and because the game was guns'murica, and christians. and the right was hating on it because they thought it portrayed all white christians as crazy cultist liberal haters. There are still old videos on youtube ranting from both sides.

I guess that's how you know you made a good product: It pisses off both groups.
 

dDoc

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But define forced?

ND panel for TLOU2 presented by a lesbian who isnt into games at all.
In the same panel having that transgender kid who is also a character in the game.
Neil himself saying he had a secret agenda in the original which isnt so secret any more.
Neil giving an award to Sarkeesian.
Twitter posts by ND staff telling people if they dont like it they aren't making games for them any more (didn't work that great for BFV)
Abby being super buffed 25 years into an apocalypse.
Lesbo kiss one of the first things shown in the E3 trailer

Im sure there's more but that's what I can serve at a moment's notice.

I'll still give the game a chance I think but the above and more are what are getting on people's nerves.
 
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VysePSU

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"The story's gonna win for us."

Sure it is. Naughty Dog can try to damage control all they want, with as many gaming journalists sucking up to them and over-simplifying the issue of diversity, but the fact is people were upset with what they've read happens in the story thanks to the leaks. It might win you some awards from the high-brow story over gameplay crowd but you will probably lose a lot of original fans. A depressing sequel with a hate-filled coming of age story for Ellie, mean mugging you at the very start from the game's boxart. "Play this game to understand why Ellie is so angry". I bet more people will understandably question whether or not the sequel was necessary instead of looking back on it fondly years from now.
 
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IamOnline4Real

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Why is it so hard for people to move on if they are not interested in this game?

1 . You dont like it, dont buy it, dont talk about it.

And what the hell are they constantly posting in this thread or other TLOU2 threads?

This is madness, being so obsessed with a game they dont like....i feel kind of sorry for the Haters.
 

Panajev2001a

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In the gameplay section they showed recently a convo is overheard by Ellie from a lesbo soldier telling a dude she's happy she's spending a shift with her lesbo friend.

Abby looks transgender bigger than many a male.

Who knows how many more such instances are in the game?

The human race is mostly over in that universe if a lot of people are gay, just saying.

Sorry but... what?
 

REE Machine

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ND panel for TLOU2 presented by a lesbian who isnt into games at all.
In the same panel having that transgender kid who is also a character in the game.
Neil himself saying he had a secret agenda in the original which isnt so secret any more.
Neil giving an award to Sarkeesian.
Twitter posts by ND staff telling people if they dont like it they aren't making games for them any more (didn't work that great for BFV)
Abby being super buffed 25 years into an apocalypse.
Lesbo kiss one of the first things shown in the E3 trailer

Im sure there's more but that's what I can serve at a moment's notice.

I'll still give the game a chance I think but the above and more are what are getting on people's nerves.
So instead of agenda And it being forced its his creative direction and creative freedom for the game he wants to make. Nothing is forced because no one is forcing you to watch it, no one is forcing you to play it, no one is forcing you to partake in the experience that is a choice chosen by you, and him its his creative freedom that allows him to do those things.

people complain about censorship when its comes to tits but you want to handicap a dev because he wants his product to have his vision in it whatever it be but you also wants to censor his vision because its "forced"

its his freedom to do so much like yours where no one is forcing you to play it or watch it. Im against censorship of all kinds, lets the devs create the games and characters they want, its their vision not yours.

its not a forced agenda, its creative freedom. Much like is someone made a trump game, if its had good characters, development and gameplay, fuck yea id play it.
 

PanzerAzel

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because he’s a hypocrite who contradicts himself with every post.
Christ, will you guys lay off ffs? So he finds some content objectionable to his own beliefs that you disagree with. The horror.

This shit REEKS of Era dogpiling, the only difference is a lack of a ban from someone running off to the mods. He’s already taken his position and attempted to explain himself.
 

dDoc

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its his freedom to do so much like yours where no one is forcing you to play it or watch it

Exactly. The game will still sell well but Sony and ND have lost some sales due to the agenda. It's good business for a dev to make the best game they possibly can and avoid such controversies that will, however minimally or hugely, affect sales of their game just as to push political stuff some gamers aren't interested in being soaked with.
 

rofif

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So instead of agenda And it being forced its his creative direction and creative freedom for the game he wants to make. Nothing is forced because no one is forcing you to watch it, no one is forcing you to play it, no one is forcing you to partake in the experience that is a choice chosen by you, and him its his creative freedom that allows him to do those things.

people complain about censorship when its comes to tits but you want to handicap a dev because he wants his product to have his vision in it whatever it be but you also wants to censor his vision because its "forced"

its his freedom to do so much like yours where no one is forcing you to play it or watch it. Im against censorship of all kinds, lets the devs create the games and characters they want, its their vision not yours.

its not a forced agenda, its creative freedom. Much like is someone made a trump game, if its had good characters, development and gameplay, fuck yea id play it.
But is it "his game" to make? Druckmann can do anything probably but... should he? Imagine if next person got star wars and made it into some completely other thing... oh wait...
 

BlitzerRadic

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But is it "his game" to make? Druckmann can do anything probably but... should he? Imagine if next person got star wars and made it into some completely other thing... oh wait...

Someone can't make Star Wars into some completely different thing because SW has long established canon. What canon is TLOU2 breaking?
 
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Danjin44

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But is it "his game" to make? Druckmann can do anything probably but... should he? Imagine if next person got star wars and made it into some completely other thing... oh wait...
Fuck yeah he should! You either going to like it or not. I didn’t like Kojima put celebrities as characters in Death Stranding but he has every fucking right to do it, it’s his fucking game.

You grown man with free will and you can choose not buy what you don’t like but developers have every right to make what they want to make.
 
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rofif

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Someone can't make Star Wars into some completely different thing because SW has long established canon. What canon is TLOU2 breaking?
I mean... if You make a sequel, a product for tens of millions of customers. And You lead team of hundreds, You don't really make "What You want". There is responsibility and presenting the vision of whole team. Only kojima is excluded from that
 

carlosrox

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That's fine. I want this game to go all in with a super dark tone.

TLOU was mostly really good about it but sometimes Ellie's little jokes and comments spoiled the mood. I hope 2 is just a little more consistent.