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Opinion Game Dev Neil Druckmann: "There are games that are just comfort food. This is not one of those"

Jun 28, 2013
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Of course Neil Druckmann would say that. Thats not even the reason I hate the game, but hes lying anyway.. which I hate. Its not even the diversity that bothers me, its that it bothers me with diversity. Its forced, it should be passive, nonexistent. I would like this game if it didnt have a agenda. But its not even a game, a agendaless movie? No thanks. Typical zombie movie. Get Amy back on Last of Us.
 

The Hamburglar

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lots of same idiots trying to justify not buying/hating the game because the main character is a lesbian and has a shemale main character.

the one game (off the top of my head) you play as Lesbian And all of a sudden it’s apparently gender politics being rammed down your throat,
oh no the sky is falling, please..

The same shit ‘I’m not a bigot and I don’t mind diversity, but forced diversity no no no and why can’t these lesbians Just be themselves without shoving it in your face’.
 
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and 3 others

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Wonder if Ellie will get branded a white mass murderer like Nathan Drake did a few years back, or nah!?
 

SUPERGGK

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Nah mate, if you have seen everything out there, they are going all in on diversity points. Even in this interview, he's all about how diversity makes his story better and giving out his tired talking points. If you have seen interviews with the guy, he's an unhinged, unironic SJW.
I have seen the leaks, I know what's coming, so while I don't agree with everything what Druckmann has done, I am still going to give it a fair chance because it's Naughty Gods, they have rightfully earned it. I loved both tlou and uncharted 4 where druckmann was involved too, so I won't believe that all of a sudden they have become unhinged sjw propaganda studio. I have seen the gameplay and it looks amazing. And I believe that a few cutscenes are not enough to judge the full story of a Naughty Gods game. It's all about the moment to moment dialogue and interaction. It's about going through a journey along with these characters. So I will rightfully reserve my judgement until I have completed the game for myself.
 

Panajev2001a

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My issue with this game is that, after seeing the leaks, one hour worth of those, is that the characters presented don't really fit with reality. Ellie does not behave like a woman, lesbian or otherwise. The script was written for a man and the acting is also made for a man, just acted by a woman, this creates a disonance in the game that I do not enjoy. That is only compounded when you look at the gameplay, and Ellie, a 50 kg at the most girl is getting physical with dudes nearly double her size.

Also, the world of TLOU doesn't really make sense with the characters found in it. Transexuals would literally not exist, as none of the hormonal medication would ever exist, while the facilities steroids and supplements the gym lady would need to exist would also be gone in a world like the one TLOU is supposed to have.

So, why do all of these ridiculous elements exist? It's because Neil is a little unhinged and wants to push his narrative. I like to stay in touch with reality and not be one of those "20 genders exist, everyone needs to be an alphabet person" people, so I prefer not to have his ideas be preached to me.

Fair enough... I need to play the game and see the plot play out to judge the writing. It could be as you say or not, but I am not sure I am able to judge or write a man or a woman... I think that is partially the point the writers are making “what would write a man but have a woman act that part even mean?!”.
 

PanzerAzel

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I think I agree. Everything I've seen so far makes me really uncomfortable. It's like a Nazi-movie that deals with the unhealthy relationships that occurred between guards and prisoners.

However I don't see yet why I would want to play this if it just made me feel bad.
At least when I play a horror game there's a rush of adrenaline and relieve; here I could only see my depression coming back.

Not for me, however I agree that this is what the higher ESRB/PEGI Ratings are made for.
I like your avy.
 
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Despera

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99% of TLOU2 discussions aren't about the gameplay. For a videogame that just ain't right.

ND have spoken their minds early on about the social commentary side of it. A smart thing to do afterwards was to focus 100% on what makes the game fun to explore, new mechanics and such, but I barely saw anything new there.

What I get from ND's pr approach is that the game has almost nothing new to offer gameplay-wise and is fully focused on social commentary. The latter brings in the buzz so they double down on it with no subtlety to it.

While I agree with the main message, Druckmann just exudes "not trustworthy" energy in the way he conducts himself especially as of late.
 

PanzerAzel

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99% of TLOU2 discussions aren't about the gameplay. For a videogame that just ain't right.

ND have spoken their minds early on about the social commentary side of it. A smart thing to do afterwards was to focus 100% on what makes the game fun to explore, new mechanics and such, but I barely saw anything new there.

What I get from ND's pr approach is that the game has almost nothing new to offer gameplay-wise and is fully focused on social commentary. The latter brings in the buzz so they double down on it with no subtlety to it.
Tend to agree. Had ND not focused on Ellie’s orientation in the trailers, I highly doubt there would be nearly so many accusations of an agenda, even after the leaks. But he just couldn’t wait to push it at the earliest opportunity.
 
Feb 15, 2013
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Of course Neil Druckmann would say that. Thats not even the reason I hate the game, but hes lying anyway.. which I hate. Its not even the diversity that bothers me, its that it bothers me with diversity. Its forced, it should be passive, nonexistent. I would like this game if it didnt have a agenda. But its not even a game, a agendaless movie? No thanks. Typical zombie movie. Get Amy back on Last of Us.

What dumb shit is this? How can you hate the game when you haven't played it?
 
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Inxes

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I have a BIG problem with the idea of trying to force gender politics/LBGQ into the main plot of the second game. Many people like me loved the first game and now I feel like i'm being forced to go against my beliefs and support something I don't if I want to play the game. It's so forced and unnecessary.

You saying this before you've even played the game tells me that you are not against the fact that its forced on you, but rather against the fact that it exists. You can't even know if its forced until you play it ffs.

Besides, with all due respect to the Christian culture I am involved with bc of my country, and as a fellow ex-believer I think its time to accept that God loves us all and want us to be happy, even if its by marrying another man/woman.
 
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saintjules

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As a Christian, there's nothing ND can do in this game to persuade me to go against my faith and what I think is right/wrong.

I have a BIG problem with the idea of trying to force gender politics/LBGQ into the main plot of the second game. Many people like me loved the first game and now I feel like i'm being forced to go against my beliefs and support something I don't if I want to play the game. It's so forced and unnecessary. The first game was amazing and did not need to go down that path as the main plot.

I will probably just buy it when its around 20 bucks now, which is a shame given I loved the first game and double dipped with the ps3 and remaster on ps4.

And i'm not bashing the game. I just wish ND would have continue with the story of Joel and Ellie trying to survive a brutal world with the clickers with the amazing combat etc and left the LGBQ push out.

I have no doubt the gameplay/quality will be amazing like the first game based on the footage shown.

Honest question: Why do you need to wait for a sale of a game that potentially goes against your beliefs? It sounds like you don't want to play it based on what's going on with the game itself. It's not just you, as I've seen similar comments, but I never understand the 'wait for a sale' thing when the reasons are other than because you simply can't afford it at $60. It's either you're getting it or not at the regular price.
 
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The Hamburglar

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Honest question: Why do you need to wait for a sale of a game that potentially goes against your beliefs? It sounds like you don't want to play it based on what's going on with the game itself. It's not just you, as I've seen similar comments, but I never understand the 'wait for a sale' thing when the reasons are other than because you simply can't afford it at $60. It's either you're getting it or not at the regular price.

because he’s a hypocrite who contradicts himself with every post.
 
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Azurro

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Fair enough... I need to play the game and see the plot play out to judge the writing. It could be as you say or not, but I am not sure I am able to judge or write a man or a woman... I think that is partially the point the writers are making “what would write a man but have a woman act that part even mean?!”.

Well, that is part of the ideology they are pushing, it goes beyond just a game, the game is just a medium. Those people believe that reality is just a social construct, that every person is a tabula rasa, and that identity, whatever it entails, sex, gender, whatever you can think of, are meaningless and can be changed at any point.

The point is, a woman simply doesn't act in that way, women are not men and men aren't women, and we are not empty vessels, we come as a combination of genetics and environment, even from birth. Therefore, as much of a tomboy as a woman could be, she would never act in such a way. I don't like the propaganda being put forth by these intersectionalists and their world view would be funny if it wasn't so accepted and promoted in the media.
 

REE Machine

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Wonder if Ellie will get branded a white mass murderer like Nathan Drake did a few years back, or nah!?
Different theme and games, that's the world she lives in, its meant for survival and kill or be killed. Drake on the other hand,....
 

REE Machine

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Dont understand the "force divesirt" bullshiet, how do you have a different cast of characters without "forcing" it then. If they have something in the game you dont like people will cry FORCED, bunch of babies
 

Guilty_AI

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Aren't ND games comfort food themselves? I mean, simple mechanics, pretty graphics, cinematographic experience... you can't get more comfort food than that.

When we talk about games that aren't meant to be comfort food, what i immediately think of is stuff like Disco Elysium with its heavy reading filled with philosophy and existentialism, or maybe games with hard mechanics that require you to get good at them and are meant to be a challenge.
 
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DForce

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Cutsecenes are different than say what was being spread by 4chan which was proven fake by people who played the game and director himself.

Yeah.

A person saw a few cutscenes and then wrote a quick plot summary. One scene was said to be the end of the game and it had a lot of people upset, but it was clearly not the end of the game after looking at other leaked footage.

Sadly, a lot of people ran with it and started making rant videos across YouTube.
 

Panajev2001a

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Well, that is part of the ideology they are pushing, it goes beyond just a game, the game is just a medium. Those people believe that reality is just a social construct, that every person is a tabula rasa, and that identity, whatever it entails, sex, gender, whatever you can think of, are meaningless and can be changed at any point.

The point is, a woman simply doesn't act in that way, women are not men and men aren't women, and we are not empty vessels, we come as a combination of genetics and environment, even from birth. Therefore, as much of a tomboy as a woman could be, she would never act in such a way. I don't like the propaganda being put forth by these intersectionalists and their world view would be funny if it wasn't so accepted and promoted in the media.

The tabula rasa concept is much much older than the current LGTBQ+ movement and you are right that genetics play their part, but as you said so does the environment which means culture and customs too. Now, the genetic input so to speak is not such a wide spectrum as people say IMHO (I may be wrong) but has dominant clusters and we often categorise in abstract higher level terms to manage and make sense of things (any programmer is familiar with abstractions and the pros and cons to that).

With that said while I do not think everybody does or that there is an equi distribution across the spectrum, some people do fall outside... I do not see something wrong in being part of active discussion and also being front and center. For the people outside of the cluster I think it is not a “can be changed” but “self determined“ I guess.

The problem is a bit more that when striving for acceptance, at the beginning, it may see that there is an abundance way above the representation in society (however you collect that data with, say the census data... which some people want to boycott).

The bigger problem is trying to address and move past some real problems that still occur in society racially and sexual and religious discrimination wise this gets coupled with a much more explosive (because I cannot see how it practically leads to anything but cognitive dissonance or worse as the noble goal is not achievable and sacrifices very important values in pursuit of it) safetyism movement:

 
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Saber

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The impression I have is that this guy is more interested about diversity than his own story driven game being leaked.
 
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Kindjal

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Because you don't bite hand that feeds you. Remember that advertisements are main source on income for magazines and gaming sites, even if it's not, then being blacklisted from getting review copies of games from big publisher like Sony is enought to shut you down.

I agree, but the journalist doesn't have to be aggressive or disingenuous when asking questions or interacting with the interviewee, just to try and be impartial.
In this case the interviewer was actively being complacent with Neil and that doesn't stand well with me (and apparently with others, as seen on this thread).
 

REE Machine

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Yeah.

A person saw a few cutscenes and then wrote a quick plot summary. One scene was said to be the end of the game and it had a lot of people upset, but it was clearly not the end of the game after looking at other leaked footage.

Sadly, a lot of people ran with it and started making rant videos across YouTube.
And spreading false information on say even gaf
 

REE Machine

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Because if you were a christian, you would understand why i'm upset. No? And a little tip.... people who refer to themselves as being " a pleasant genius" usually aren't!
What part of the game dont you agree with because your christian, ellie being gay, or the "cult"
 

Aion002

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As a Christian, there's nothing ND can do in this game to persuade me to go against my faith and what I think is right/wrong.

I have a BIG problem with the idea of trying to force gender politics/LBGQ into the main plot of the second game. Many people like me loved the first game and now I feel like i'm being forced to go against my beliefs and support something I don't if I want to play the game. It's so forced and unnecessary. The first game was amazing and did not need to go down that path as the main plot.

I will probably just buy it when its around 20 bucks now, which is a shame given I loved the first game and double dipped with the ps3 and remaster on ps4.

And i'm not bashing the game. I just wish ND would have continue with the story of Joel and Ellie trying to survive a brutal world with the clickers with the amazing combat etc and left the LGBQ push out.

I have no doubt the gameplay/quality will be amazing like the first game based on the footage shown.
As also a Christian, a Catholic Brazilian that lives near the second biggest church in the world... That the whole family is catholic.... I must ask: What is wrong with this game, that according to you, is trying to persuade against your faith?

As the Pope said: "If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge?". Also, Pope Francis already reiterated that Catholic teaching states that homosexual tendencies "are not a sin."

So whats the big deal if a game is having a lesbian? Does that really offends you? Just because a a girl doesn't like dicks.... Your faith is in danger? Also, if you truly believe in that a game with a lesbian is an issue, shouldn't you be against any game that has humans beating/shooting/slashing each other?
 
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IamOnline4Real

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As a Christian, there's nothing ND can do in this game to persuade me to go against my faith and what I think is right/wrong.

I have a BIG problem with the idea of trying to force gender politics/LBGQ into the main plot of the second game. Many people like me loved the first game and now I feel like i'm being forced to go against my beliefs and support something I don't if I want to play the game. It's so forced and unnecessary. The first game was amazing and did not need to go down that path as the main plot.

I will probably just buy it when its around 20 bucks now, which is a shame given I loved the first game and double dipped with the ps3 and remaster on ps4.

And i'm not bashing the game. I just wish ND would have continue with the story of Joel and Ellie trying to survive a brutal world with the clickers with the amazing combat etc and left the LGBQ push out.

I have no doubt the gameplay/quality will be amazing like the first game based on the footage shown.

Get out of here...what do you know about christianity.
Most pastors and church people are gay. They sleep constantly with kids...that's your faith right there.
TLOU is mild compared to what church people do to kids
 

DForce

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We'll see who is right or wrong in a week. Also I never fully trusted the words but even then the video evidence is enough to rock the fans to the core. So until then. 😘😘😘

She faces a group of xenophobic survivors in Seattle who have captured Joel’s brother, Tommy. Ellie ventures into enemy territory to rescue him. Naughty Dog has gone through great lengths to convey that these enemies are people with lives and loved ones, not one-dimensional threats.


The fake plot leak says she goes out for revenge because the cult attacked her settlement.

There's more but I'm not going to discuss spoilers.

This guy actually beat the game and he confirms it.

 

#Phonepunk#

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The impression I have is that this guy is more interested about diversity than his own story driven game being leaked.
The impression I get is he is another male feminist using diversity buzzwords to distract from any critiques of his ultra violent take on the tired zombie fantasy
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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The previous game was comfort food for me. I don't typically like horror games nor zombie/apocalypse games but for some reason TLOU struck somewhere in the middle for a genre-casual like myself. Replayed it multiple times.

So... I guess TLOU2 is not for me? 🤷‍♀️
 

Represent.

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This is soul food.

Cant wait, legitimately think it will be the best game of all time.
 

Doom85

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As the Pope said: "If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge?". Also, Pope Francis already reiterated that Catholic teaching states that homosexual tendencies "are not a sin."

So whats the big deal if a game is having a lesbian? Does that really offends you? Just because a a girl doesn't like dicks.... Your faith is in danger? Also, if you truly believe in that a game with a lesbian is an issue, shouldn't you be against any game that has humans beating/shooting/slashing each other?

Yeah, that last bit is what confuses me, how can a Christian have an issue with a lead being LGBT but not have an issue with them murdering a ton of people (like yeah, in the first game many instances were in self-defense, but sometimes Joel just straight up can sneak up and murder some guy standing around. Like sure, that guy was most likely bad news, but I'm pretty sure the big G would still call foul on that). Or hell, Ellie says, "Jesus, Joel!" sometimes when he kills somebody. I mean, even if a Christian were to somehow get over the "fuck"s, "shit"s, etc., you'd think hearing their god's name taken in vain like that would be their final straw. But nope, apparently:

Ellie: Jesus! Holy fuck, Joel, that was some crazy shit! Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to send an arrow straight through the skull of this guy in the distance just standing there!

Christian:


Ellie: I kissed a girl and I liked it!

Christian:


Like, I really don't get it. It's your right to feel how you do (but just pointing I know many Christians who have zero issues with following a LGBT character(s)), but if you're THAT strict on following characters who generally don't do "un-Christian" stuff, I have zero idea how the first game was fine in your eyes.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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The whole thing about Christians being anti gay is a pretty outdated stereotype. In the South we have many out gay pastors and this has been the norm for a decade or so.

This game seems to rely on those outdated stereotypes which is probably the main reason Christians would be offended by it.

It does seem to be a useful way to distract from any criticisms of glorifying violence
 
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BlitzerRadic

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Of course Neil Druckmann would say that. Thats not even the reason I hate the game, but hes lying anyway.. which I hate. Its not even the diversity that bothers me, its that it bothers me with diversity. Its forced, it should be passive, nonexistent. I would like this game if it didnt have a agenda. But its not even a game, a agendaless movie? No thanks. Typical zombie movie. Get Amy back on Last of Us.

I'd like to know what it is that you considered "forced" diversity and how you would implement "passive" diversity in this game.
 
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You know people wouldn't have that opinion if we didn't spend the last 8 years going through countless rants about how we are all bigots for not promoting their behavior. I have no issue with lesbian or whatnot in a game or movie. I have an issue with self righteous preaching and superiority against people that disagree with the lifestyle or just people who don't want it jammed down their throats 24x7. Or all the activists types who seem to purposely try to get people fired or shutdown with mob tactics.

Plus the cringe and constant, "I'm oppressed because someone doesn't celebrate who I sleep with" bs. And constant drawing attention to that every 2 minutes (especially on social media). It's like your whole life doesn't revolve around sexuality. Go do something constructive and be you. You don't need to shout it from the rooftops every 2 seconds and call people names if they feel uncomfortable by it.

If its subtle like the dude in tlou1 and fits the story all good. If it's in your face with "bake the cake you bigot!" then nah I'm out.
Singularly, no, but to attempt to deny sexuality as a Pillar of life seems to deny life itself.:messenger_winking:
 

Doom85

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I'd like to know what it is that you considered "forced" diversity and how you would implement "passive" diversity in this game.

Yeah, here's the thing, Days Gone had a specific trailer that was focused on Deacon and Sarah's relationship. No one complained about it. But the E3 trailer that had Ellie and Dina dancing, OH BOY, all the complaining ensued. And I remember specifically people's defense was, "it's not because they're not straight, but because a trailer about the zombie apocalypse shouldn't focus on romance!" so oh man was that found out to be some bullshit when the Days Gone trailer dropped and no one said a word (also never mind that was half the TLOU 2 trailer, the other half was Ellie murdering fools)

And if the argument is "but TLOU 2's trailer was agenda-focused", well there's the problem. If that's how you look at it, then any lead in a non-straight relationship will ALWAYS be "agenda-focused" in your eyes unless they're shoved in the background (I remember a show, IIRC it was Modern Family, finally having its gay couple kiss after multiple seasons....in the background while the straight couple took the focus of the shot). Oh wait no, if they're in the background, then the argument becomes they're just thrown in for diversity points and could easily be removed from the story without affecting anything. The goalposts are always being moved in this regard.

LBGT characters are kept in the background.
Certain people: look, they're just thrown in for diversity points, they barely are present in the story.
LGBT characters are given certain stage.
Certain people: Oh yeah, just shove that agenda right in our faces! BOO!!!

Basically, the "certain people" are the "move it a little more to the left. No wait, it looked better on the right. Oh sorry, maybe back to the left again?" shtick in human clothing. To me it's clear they're NEVER going to be unable to find some "issue" with a LGBT character. At this point, I'd just recommend all creators of fiction to just ignore the "complaints" and do as you were. You can't please people who have made it clear they will never be content with what you're doing no matter how you approach it.
 

DZ_b_EZ

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So many of you guys are worried about included diversity and gender roles, it's ridiculous. There are greater problems to worry about. Do you feel attacked or challenged somehow by the choices made in a video game?

Personally, I think this game is going to be sick and I can't wait any longer.
 

LarknThe4th

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I have respect for the studio and what they do, I dont like their games or anything

Maybe the next game of theirs can be more system driven(seems part 2 might have a bit of depth to it)

Any clues what they might be at next?