• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Naoki Yoshida addresses Final Fantasy 16's lack of diversity

Status
Not open for further replies.

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
So tell me why is Bridgerton extremely sucessful if it's set on England before globalization and it has a black queen character?
And GoT has a rather European setting and people are colored according to the landmass / climate they live in. Even if it’s a fictional setting. And was somehow super successful doing so.
 
IMHO, it's just a really silly question to begin with, and not even a very interesting one. "Where's the diversity measured against modern 2022 culture in this medieval fantasy RPG?"

Doesn't seem like an interesting question, and seems like a waste of time to answer it or spend time dissecting it.

Where's the diversity? I don't know, Japan's not a very diverse country, ethnically. It's 99% Japanese. What are they supposed to base the ethnic diversity of their games on? United States-specific norms for what is considered culturally acceptable by current 2022 standards? That seems like a lot of unnecessary work, and honestly, a huge waste of time.

I think it's a boring question that nobody is asking except someone at IGN who wanted the headline for clicks.

Are they going to ask this Q in every game interview now?

"Where's the diversity in the Toads for this Super Mario game?"

"Why does Link have to be white?"

Like, at what point does this just become completely ridiculous?
 
Last edited:

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
It's really a problem to force things in everything, because it leads to people being bothered by something they just didn't care about before.

I can see this effect on myself, I didn't mind things like gay characters or whatever else in medias before, I wasn't for or against it, I just didn't care, it's something that exists and that's it. But now that it's done for different purposes, that there's this whole woke culture, everytime I see such things in medias, I start being annoyed / questionning it, wondering if it was put there naturally, which is rarely these days, or if it's just the usual pandering.

And I know this isn't a particularly great way of thinking either, because it's being biased in a different way, but you can't help it when it's done all the time in everything constantly. They simply ruined the image / messages they were trying to defend.
I have zero problem if there is gay or any race in games if thats their creative choice and I welcome that with open arms, but I get pissed when western media shit on devs when they dont put them in as they are some kind of racists or sexiest. I mean people on social media legitimately got pissed off about Bayonetta not being gay like their head canon.

Trying to force representation just goes against the cause and more importantly the game will suffer as a result.
 

lyan

Member
The excuse is lame. But they're free to do whatever they want to. I said I think the question was unecessary and that IGN is fishing for controversy. You're missing the point lol
You assume it is an excuse, but when it comes to Japan (or anywhere East Asia) there's a good chance they really mean it.
 

GametimeUK

Member
The excuse is 100% lame.
If Bridgerton can be extremely sucessful and make people don't care about "real world consistency" while not even having fantasy elements on it and being a romance story, then anything can. Unless it's specifically a historical fiction like Cleopatra or Gladiator, "real world consistency" doesn't matter. Facts. 🤷‍♂️

But what I'm saying is your line of thinking boils down to "if it's a fictional world the excuse for not being inclusive is lame... its a fictional land you can include anything you're not bound by reality"...

BUT if we apply this logic consistently and if excluding things from a fictional game world is "lame" because people have the power to include it if they wish... then OBJECTIVELY by your standard EVERYTHING imaginable should be included in the game. If a Swashbluckling Pirate with a giraffe neck isn't in FF16 then the "excuse" for not including it would be lame. By your logic they could have included it so they should... otherwise its lame.

WHAT?!?!?!
 
Last edited:
Tell me you didn't read what I said, without telling me you didn't read what I said...

Clown Here You Go GIF by Travis
A movie, TV show or game with exclusively minority characters is seen as the second coming of Christ, but something with too many white people is automatically evil, racist and wrong. It makes no sense to me. Apparently even Snow White is latina now...

I read it and wish I didn't. Latina Snow white, black Ariel, indian velma, etc. Always gets people who going who never planned on seeing these films anyway. Discussion on diversity doesn't mean we are in a worse place. Its always been bad but if you arent affected by it you just had a better ability to ignore it.
 

Swift_Star

Banned
But what I'm saying is your line of thinking boils down to "if it's a fictional world the excuse for not being inclusive is lame... its a fictional land you can include anything you're not bound by reality"...

BUT if we apply this logic consistently and if excluding things from a fictional game world is "lame" because people have the power to include it if they wish... then OBJECTIVELY by your standard EVERYTHING imaginable should be included in the game. If a Swashbluckling Pirate with a giraffe neck isn't in FF16 then the "excuse" for not including it would be lame. By your logic they could have included it so they should... otherwise its lame.

WHAT?!?!?!
It's lame, dude, no matter how much mental gymnastics you're trying to make lol.
And the fact that you're trying to exaggerate just proves this further.
 
A movie, TV show or game with exclusively minority characters is seen as the second coming of Christ, but something with too many white people is automatically evil, racist and wrong. It makes no sense to me. Apparently even Snow White is latina now...

I read it and wish I didn't. Latina Snow white, black Ariel, indian velma, etc. Always gets people who going who never planned on seeing these films anyway. Discussion on diversity doesn't mean we are in a worse place. Its always been bad but if you arent affected by it you just had a better ability to ignore it.
Brb, gonna put on a play about Okun Archibon and cast him as white. See how that goes down with people it doesn’t affect.
 
They should blacklist IGN. That's wasn't journalism or an interview, they put live bait in front of him and told him to bite.
If it was a live interview and not a "email us back your answers" interview, the reply was mighty impressive. But yeah, the Q is just super cringey. Kind of hurts to read it.
 
Brb, gonna put on a play about Okun Archibon and cast him as white. See how that goes down with people it doesn’t affect.
Who? But don't be obtuse. If the characters race is a pivotal part of who they are then thats one thing. All the examples people tend to get upset about happen to be white...their whiteness rarely plays a role in their character.
 
Who? But don't be obtuse. If the characters race is a pivotal part of who they are then thats one thing. All the examples people tend to get upset about happen to be white...their whiteness rarely plays a role in their character.
I would say that race doesn’t form a pivotal part of any folk story - but it does place them within a specific culture and time. That is why changing the race of characters rubs people up the wrong way.

My personal view - I don’t care. As somebody who thinks the charge of cultural appropriation is bollocks, I believe all stories belong to all peoples and cultures and I welcome adaptations of all kinds. But the modern trend of changing the races is so clearly a provocation that it really annoys me when people act offended at offence taken.
 
Last edited:
I would say that race doesn’t form a pivotal part of any folk story - but it does place them within a specific culture and time. That is why changing the race of characters rubs people up the wrong way.

My personal view - I don’t care. As somebody who thinks the charge of cultural appropriation is bollocks, I believe all stories belong to all peoples and cultures and I welcome adaptations of all kinds. But the modern trend of changing the races is so clearly a provocation that it really annoys me when people act offended at offence taken.
I would disagree and even on a minuscule level it does create a sense of pride for under represented groups to see themselves portrayed in a positive manner. That alone is enough reason for me to be pro representation. It hurts no one and benefits those who receive the positive aspects of it...especially when we have had historical negative representation for some groups.
 

kurisu_1974

is on perm warning for being a low level troll
I think you guys are taking the race thing too far tbh. I've never seen Spaniards or Italians as different races, that's insane to me. How would we know Snow White is now Hispanic btw, haven't been following that? I'm sure there's Hispanic people that are whiter than me (and I'm very fucking white... almost transluscent on a bad day).
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
The game is not set on Earth, hence, it’s not an “European setting”.

It's a world based on a fantasy version of medieval Europe.

I don't understand the argument that it's "fantasy". As if that means it should reflect what the western real world looks like in 2022.

City of Brass and Black Leopard Red Wolf (fantasy books) are two examples off the top of my head where both are set in fantasy versions of the Middle East and Western Africa, although both are not set on Earth.

Both are not diverse or have a cast of characters made up of multiple races. That's completely understandable based on the world they're set in. It would be really jarring if both of those worlds had a ton of white characters.
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
So tell me why is Bridgerton extremely sucessful if it's set on England before globalization and it has a black queen character?

It's successful because it's Jane Austen X Fifty Shades.

What's even the argument here?
 

Kikorin

Member
Dumb question, this obsession with diversification is making everything looks the same.

I enjoyed GTA: SA and most of the characters were black, I enjoyed Alan Wake and most of the characters were white, I enjoyed Life is Strange and most of the characters were LGBTQ+, I enjoyed Star Fox and most of the characters were animals and so on. Not everything have to looks the same, let creators do what they want with their games and if you don't like them, play something else. Is that simple.
 
Last edited:

Thabass

Member
I know it's based on a medieval setting, but I don't think his reasoning is too sound because it's a fantasy game. It's not like people of other races didn't exist in those times. Though, admittedly, it wouldn't make much sense given the type of setting there trying to go for, I guess.

Regardless, I don't think his comments were blasphemous or anything. But I do think it's a bit silly to defend it. You could have had plenty of races in a game that's a fantasy based medieval setting.
 

ZiZ

Member
I'd be 100% OK with them being all white European-like if it was based on mideval Europe as he said, but there's a clearly middle eastern inspired area.


final-fantasy-16-image-6.jpg
 
Last edited:
telling others they need to change their creations so group X is included/represented is not a long term solution.

such an odd mix of arrogance and insecurity.
Need? It’s not criminally enforced so all the daily wire non woke content is there for you consumption. Encouraged isn’t forcing anyone to do anything. All content has levels of encouragement that is culturally driven by a myriad of factors be it a demographic target or theme.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
I'd be 100% OK with them being all white European-like if it was based on mideval Europe as he said, but there's a clearly middle eastern inspired area.


final-fantasy-16-image-6.jpg
Inspired is different from actual middle east.

Sorry but the same excuse that people tell that it is fantasy so it should be possible can and will be used in the opposite way as a valid reason. A fantasy world CAN contain one single race. Just look at any science fiction alien planet and I’m 95% sure the predominant sentient alien race is homogenous. It just become as issue when it concerns humans or earth like planets.

I’m POC as well but I don’t scream to be represented in every media. That just screams ME, ME, ME.
 

ANDS

King of Gaslighting
The "Oh we're going for a medieval feel for this" is a bit of a hard sell, when you've got summons and weird plant monsters. If this were a low-fantasy title, where we are clearly drawing comparisons between the game and known history - sure. What we have here is a fantasy game firmly entrenched in a fantasy world that has no real reason to "make sense" ethnically. Just say "This is the vision we had for this world, and it didn't occur to us in the character design phase to make them look any other way than what we've shown." Which is perfectly fine and preferred to this hacky response.

. . .and honestly, given the FF series history of treating its non-White characters, this is probably for the best.

"We want entertainment to be diverse... by demanding every piece of media represent the american demography."

When your promoting your game to a largely "Western" (dunno why you hyper-focused on "american" there) audience, you should really expect to get questions like this.
 

Fbh

Member
We already had this thread and it got locked
Either way I'll say the same thing I said back then. It's a Japanese game made in japan, I find it funny how these woke Americans who are supposedly so open minded can't comprehend that the USA isn't the entire world and not everything has to account for social issues and racial tension in america. Imagine a Japanese publication went to pester all american devs about the lack of Japanese minorities in their games: "why aren't there ainu people in God of War Ragnarok?"
 

ahtlas7

Member
This.

Should take notes from this guy



Fuck those retards. Outside of nonensical propaganda they aren't capable to do anyhting good.

Contrast the response of Tarantino and Robbie. ...From two different worlds. Unbelievable. He didn't entertain their bs but she waded into their sewage and loved it.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
When your promoting your game to a largely "Western" (dunno why you hyper-focused on "american" there) audience,
Because the 'indentity quotas' that these people usually promote are representative of US's demographic, not the west.

you should really expect to get questions like this.
They probably did. Preparing for dumb questions is, like, interview 101.
102 says there doesn't exist satisfactory answers for dumb questions.
 
Last edited:

Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
No one forced Yoko Taro put gay and intersex characters in his game, he put them because WANTS to for his story, same with George with 13 Sentinels, let devs naturally put "diverse" characters instead forcing them for sake of representation.

Try to force anything, never brings good result.


Ouch... That was a SPOILER for me in 13 sentinels. 😐😢
 

ZiZ

Member
Inspired is different from actual middle east.

Sorry but the same excuse that people tell that it is fantasy so it should be possible can and will be used in the opposite way as a valid reason. A fantasy world CAN contain one single race. Just look at any science fiction alien planet and I’m 95% sure the predominant sentient alien race is homogenous. It just become as issue when it concerns humans or earth like planets.

I’m POC as well but I don’t scream to be represented in every media. That just screams ME, ME, ME.
The "it's a fantasy world, you can do whatever" is a dumb excuse, that I don't agree with, and as you can see from reading this thread, neither do most posters here. Also, this isn't about representation. I'm not white, and I very much dislike how western media handles diversity/representation and would rather I not be represented at all than be represented by the bullshit they are peddling.
I'm just saying fantasy at the very least should hold itself to the rules that it is establishing, having all the middle eastern-like people, be European-like in appearance, names, etc. is just as dumb as Netflix having a show about vikings where the last king of the vikings is a black woman.
 

yazenov

Member
This is as dumb as asking why isn't Ghost of Tsushima or any other games set in the specific settings such as Assassin's Creed games more diverse . Fuckin woke trash.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom