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[Rhazer Fusion]

Goes both ways, confusion about PS5 boost clock, games showcased looked current gen on the Ps5 show mixed with CG, basically both company's did the same thing.
But no people ! Blame MS just because...
C'mon guys stop the fanboy nonsense, everyone is being dupe here.

Sony’s event wasn’t near perfect either and definitely got criticized for it as well, but Sony did at least show actual gameplay for 12 if not more games during the PS5 event. I sometimes wish CGI would get banned from presentations because while beautiful, it’s typically deceiving and doesn’t necessarily represent how the game will play or even look.

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

Except i'm not a Sony fan. Your obsession with the criticism spawning from just Sony fans is strange.

I wanted it to look like it was running on software releasing this year, not something that the X could do.

again, if you can't see why xbox fans or gamers in general are pissed off, that's on you

I don't see it. Why would gamers be pissed that cross gen games look like cross gen game? It is like this every generation. Promises that games coming out couldn't be done on the previous system only to find out they were being developed for the previous system. Halo has been in development for 5 years.. common sense would say at it s core its an xbox one game. A console os more than the sum of one game.

Also most of the faux outrage in here is by sony fans throwing stones. If you can't see that, well I don't know what to tell you, lol.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

I don't see it. Why would gamers be pissed that cross gen games look like cross gen game? It is like this every generation. Promises that games coming out couldn't be done on the previous system only to find out they were being developed for the previous system. Halo has been in development for 5 years.. common sense would say at it s core its an xbox one game. A console os more than the sum of one game.

Also most of the faux outrage in here is by sony fans throwing stones. If you can't see that, well I don't know what to tell you, lol.

I've said before that it isn't just Halo that's the issue with modern-day Microsoft, though it is the easiest one to point to as having the biggest issues. It's also not entirely fair to compare previous generations, as no generation has started while making 0 exclusives available on launch day. We all know games look better as devs get used to the tech, that's part of the fun. This though? This is not good.

I don't go looking in others' back garden. It's not all Sony fans though. A lot of Microsoft fans are pissed off

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Remember when Aaron bragged that Quantum Break had such great pre-order numbers that it would be a 'mega hit'? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

I've said before that it isn't just Halo that's the issue with modern-day Microsoft, though it is the easiest one to point to as having the biggest issues. It's also not entirely fair to compare previous generations, as no generation has started while making 0 exclusives available on launch day. We all know games look better as devs get used to the tech, that's part of the fun. This though? This is not good.

I don't go looking in others' back garden. It's not all Sony fans though. A lot of Microsoft fans are pissed off

Like I said.. most launch games are cross gen anyways. The outrage by most is trolling. Hard to be outraged when you've seen so little gameplay. MS talked about games from about 1/2 of their studios.. I imagine they'll release more info as the console release gets closer.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Like I said.. most launch games are cross gen anyways. The outrage by most is trolling. Hard to be outraged when you've seen so little gameplay. MS talked about games from about 1/2 of their studios.. I imagine they'll release more info as the console release gets closer.

Usually, third party games are cross gen, with 1st party titles being exclusive to the new gen, but i know what you're saying.

The bolded is the big problem at the moment.

They've had two conferences which they've hyped up to 11 "5 mic drop moments", they didn't deliver one, except show shit Halo looks.

Even if we say all things are equal, Microsoft have had two conferences and Sony has had one. So while i don't doubt MS could show some cool things i do doubt the probability of it. If Halo, their flagship, was shown in that state, what have they held back? TBF though, i have no doubt Forza will be the best looking racing game next gen. Those guys are the top of the industry.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Microsoft seems to have no respect for releasing a polished product, their viewpoint is basically release whatever we got and patch it later. I can't get mad at the marketing team for having to defend other people's shitty decisions. Look at the state Sea of thieves, state of decay, Ori and the will of the whisps, crackdown, etc release in and it looks like halo infinite is gonna release in the same shape. They got some studios that can release finished games like gears and Forza horizon but then you see them buy studios like Compulsion games that have only made one game and it released broken af.

Compare that to Nintendo and Sony, you know your getting a complete and polished experience when you give them $60.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

what do you think Gaf ? Do you like the way MS headed?

They should have sold the Xbox division or dropped out of the console market so a better contender could jump in.

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

Usually, third party games are cross gen, with 1st party titles being exclusive to the new gen, but i know what you're saying.

The bolded is the big problem at the moment.

They've had two conferences which they've hyped up to 11 "5 mic drop moments", they didn't deliver one, except show shit Halo looks.

Even if we say all things are equal, Microsoft have had two conferences and Sony has had one. So while i don't doubt MS could show some cool things i do doubt the probability of it. If Halo, their flagship, was shown in that state, what have they held back? TBF though, i have no doubt Forza will be the best looking racing game next gen. Those guys are the top of the industry.

Usually, third party games are cross gen, with 1st party titles being exclusive to the new gen, but i know what you're saying.

The bolded is the big problem at the moment.

They've had two conferences which they've hyped up to 11 "5 mic drop moments", they didn't deliver one, except show shit Halo looks.

Even if we say all things are equal, Microsoft have had two conferences and Sony has had one. So while i don't doubt MS could show some cool things i do doubt the probability of it. If Halo, their flagship, was shown in that state, what have they held back? TBF though, i have no doubt Forza will be the best looking racing game next gen. Those guys are the top of the industry.

Cross gen meaning they they started their development cycle for the previous generation machine and then changed mid development.

The xbox one had Forza 5, Rise, Dead Rising 3 , shared 3rd party games, and a bunch of filler crap when it launched. PS4 had Knack, Killzone, shared 3rd party gmaes, and a bunch of filler crap when it launched. It's not like console launches are historically packed with quality titles. I'm ok with MS supporting the XB1 also, as long as it gets them to develop quality games.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Cross gen meaning they they started their development cycle for the previous generation machine and then changed mid development.

The xbox one had Forza 5, Rise, Dead Rising 3 , shared 3rd party games, and a bunch of filler crap when it launched. PS4 had Knack, Killzone, shared 3rd party gmaes, and a bunch of filler crap when it launched. It's not like console launches are historically packed with quality titles. I'm ok with MS supporting the XB1 also, as long as it gets them to develop quality games.

OG Halo was a launch title and that was a quality title. Likewise Condemned for the 360. I agree though, consoles don't start to hit their stride until 18 months in, we were spoiled a bit this gen with The Order and Bloodborne.

But the cross-gen-ness of their games isn't the issue that MS are having. The issue is that the division/department is directionless. The suits are PR mouth-pieces and not gamers, they don't invoke passion, their presentations are sales pitches etc etc. Halo is the least of their issues

IMO, based on nothing other than experience of Microsoft and their bullshit, I'm starting to doubt that the XSX is as powerful as what they're making out. To go from 1080p to 4k, you need 16 times the pixels/graphics. That means 16 times the bandwidth, processing, power, speed, pipes and wires etc etc. You couldnt just chuck a Ferrari engine on a go-kart and say "fastest go-kart in the world". It may be the fastest for the 3 seconds before the tyres explode, steering fails, chassis snaps etc.

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

OG Halo was a launch title and that was a quality title. Likewise Condemned for the 360. I agree though, consoles don't start to hit their stride until 18 months in, we were spoiled a bit this gen with The Order and Bloodborne.

But the cross-gen-ness of their games isn't the issue that MS are having. The issue is that the division/department is directionless. The suits are PR mouth-pieces and not gamers, they don't invoke passion, their presentations are sales pitches etc etc. Halo is the least of their issues

IMO, based on nothing other than experience of Microsoft and their bullshit, I'm starting to doubt that the XSX is as powerful as what they're making out. To go from 1080p to 4k, you need 16 times the pixels/graphics. That means 16 times the bandwidth, processing, power, speed, pipes and wires etc etc. You couldnt just chuck a Ferrari engine on a go-kart and say "fastest go-kart in the world". It may be the fastest for the 3 seconds before the tyres explode, steering fails, chassis snaps etc.

The Order? Really? Talk about a wasted opportunity of a game. Beautiful, but empty. This what I don't want. I'd rather they give me a less pretty game than one that wastes potential.

I would also disagree with you on MS PR speak. Phil does a good job. He's likable and passionate and I think that shows through. The steps they have taken since he's taken over the division have shown they are listening to their base and making changes as such.

As for the power of either next gen console.. I guess we'll see. Developers were able to get 4k games out of the One X so I imagine they'll be able to do so with the new consoles. The question is what will they sacrifice to get it... Which bring us back to Halo. 4k/60fps in an open world (or pseudo open world) game is going to require sacrifices to accomplish.

I watched a friend of mine throttle down the graphics setting in Warfare on PC to get 120fps because frame rate ruled to him in competitive shooters. It makes me think many Halo multi-player diehards will feel similar.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

The Order? Really? Talk about a wasted opportunity of a game. Beautiful, but empty. This what I don't want. I'd rather they give me a less pretty game than one that wastes potential.

I would also disagree with you on MS PR speak. Phil does a good job. He's likable and passionate and I think that shows through. The steps they have taken since he's taken over the division have shown they are listening to their base and making changes as such.

As for the power of either next gen console.. I guess we'll see. Developers were able to get 4k games out of the One X so I imagine they'll be able to do so with the new consoles. The question is what will they sacrifice to get it... Which bring us back to Halo. 4k/60fps in an open world (or pseudo open world) game is going to require sacrifices to accomplish.

I watched a friend of mine throttle down the graphics setting in Warfare on PC to get 120fps because frame rate ruled to him in competitive shooters. It makes me think many Halo multi-player diehards will feel similar.

The Order was far from empty. It had an atmosphere, interesting characters a meticulously crafted world and left me wanting more. Each to their own though, i won't argue over taste.

Phil doesn't do a good job, he does far from a good job. He isn't likable or passionate, he's a liar, and a professional one at that. Adam Boyes and Shuie Yoshida (SP?) Were passionate. J. Allard and Peter Moore were passionate.

Maybe power is the wrong wording and i don't want to use 'efficiency' as that's too Sony PR. I just think that MS may have thought that slapping PC parts in a box will work as well as a uniquely crafted system like in the days of old. Personally i don't give a shit about 4k. Let me play at 60fps with all the bells and whistles of AI, Physics, Destructibility (Bad company 2 for the 360 still hasn't been matched to this day...) and forget RT. Forza on the X has phenomenal lighting, we don't need RT

 

[Jerm411]

The issue is that MS doesnt want to shut the fuck up.

No shit lol...they talked about how they learned from the May show and heard the criticisms....and then did it again with the big July show lol.

Unbelievable.

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

The Order was far from empty. It had an atmosphere, interesting characters a meticulously crafted world and left me wanting more. Each to their own though, i won't argue over taste.

Phil doesn't do a good job, he does far from a good job. He isn't likable or passionate, he's a liar, and a professional one at that. Adam Boyes and Shuie Yoshida (SP?) Were passionate. J. Allard and Peter Moore were passionate.

Maybe power is the wrong wording and i don't want to use 'efficiency' as that's too Sony PR. I just think that MS may have thought that slapping PC parts in a box will work as well as a uniquely crafted system like in the days of old. Personally i don't give a shit about 4k. Let me play at 60fps with all the bells and whistles of AI, Physics, Destructibility (Bad company 2 for the 360 still hasn't been matched to this day...) and forget RT. Forza on the X has phenomenal lighting, we don't need RT

All the debate on velocity architecture and how the the system works shows they didn't just slap PC parts into a box. Console hardware has always been custom built, so it seems silly to claim otherwise.

I played The Order. I enjoyed the order... But lets be real. The game was not only extremely linear, but mostly empty. I'd love to see a fleshed out sequel.

As for Phil.. to each their own I suppose. Personally, I like him and I like the confidence he exudes in his system.. to me it says alot. The reality is they are all mouthpieces for their companies and they will say what they think will generate sales.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

All the debate on velocity architecture and how the the system works shows they didn't just slap PC parts into a box. Console hardware has always been custom built, so it seems silly to claim otherwise.

I played The Order. I enjoyed the order... But lets be real. The game was not only extremely linear, but mostly empty. I'd love to see a fleshed out sequel.

As for Phil.. to each their own I suppose. Personally, I like him and I like the confidence he exudes in his system.. to me it says alot. The reality is they are all mouthpieces for their companies and they will say what they think will generate sales.

To use a bad example, the Cell in the ps3. It didn't work out, but it was unique. I don't enough technically about VA but i thought it was a standard thing from AMD?

I agree on the sequel part. I'm pissed off at Sony for not letting them have another whack at the game. It was unfairly criticised and if it dropped in 2018 or 2019, i think it would have done better.

They all are mouthpieces, i agree. Except maybe Allard, that dude seemed like he was a gamer first and a suit second

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

To use a bad example, the Cell in the ps3. It didn't work out, but it was unique. I don't enough technically about VA but i thought it was a standard thing from AMD?

I agree on the sequel part. I'm pissed off at Sony for not letting them have another whack at the game. It was unfairly criticised and if it dropped in 2018 or 2019, i think it would have done better.

They all are mouthpieces, i agree. Except maybe Allard, that dude seemed like he was a gamer first and a suit second

Unique isn't always good. It took years for the PS3 to hit a stride. And the fact that Sony went away from Cell in the PS4 speaks volumes.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Unique isn't always good. It took years for the PS3 to hit a stride. And the fact that Sony went away from Cell in the PS4 speaks volumes.

That's why i said bad example The PS3 was fucking terrible. If it wasn't for ND with Uncharted and TLoU, it would have gone down in history as the worst console ever made

 

[anothertech]

The memes have spoken.

MS fucked it up.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

 

[DonF]

Aaron must go. Guy is unlikeable and his reputation right now is on the floor. He is a glorified fanboy on a pay roll.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

The issue is that MS doesnt want to shut the fuck up.

So much that!

 

[Panajev2001a]

If you gave it an unbiased perspective :
you will see the difference on third party games
you will see the difference in resolution/fps
you will see difference graphically
there is no downplaying, just facts 12 > 10, and it will show up in the upcoming years.
Phil came off very credible if you give it a second read.

Are you throwing poetry at people in response?! Fanboy wars in rhymes, next gen is here .

 

[Inuteu]

you dont see people making excuses or damage control for good games

 

[Mista]

Just how many threads dooming MS and xbox we need to have just because of a demo that didn't look all that great?

Sony fanboys are very worried about Xbox well being. How considerate

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Sony fanboys are very worried about Xbox well being. How considerate

I think deep inside everyone is disappointed, we all wanted shiny 4k60fps graphics with 12.3tf of raytracing, amazing reflections and shadows, untold number of particles, character models that would make ND blush. Instead we got what appears to be a regression in graphics and special effects, and excuses (it's open world and has a big scope).

Talk about a shit show.!

 

[Mista]

I think deep inside everyone is disappointed, we all wanted shiny 4k60fps graphics with 12.3tf of raytracing, amazing reflections and shadows, untold number of particles, character models that would make ND blush. Instead we got what appears to be a regression in graphics and special effects, and excuses (it's open world and has a big scope).

Talk about a shit show.!

Yeah you don't get that on consoles. People apparently just want to downplay whatever they dislike even if they showed good shit

4K60fps with raytracing on console is only something you can dream about. Lets be real here, no next-gen console is going to achieve that

 

[alabtrosMyster]

4K60fps with raytracing on console is only something you can dream about. Lets be real here, no next-gen console is going to achieve that

I think Granturismo had some of it (at least the reflections), granted it seemed to run at half resolution.... I'm sure the xbox could do a bit better (the Forza reveal had some RT, but it seems it was running at 30fps--but I don't mind too much in the cut scenes).

 

[Mista]

I think Granturismo had some of it (at least the reflections), granted it seemed to run at half resolution.... I'm sure the xbox could do a bit better (the Forza reveal had some RT, but it seems it was running at 30fps--but I don't mind too much in the cut scenes).

They can do it, both PS5 and XSX but not on 4k60 with RTX on. This is reality

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

I think deep inside everyone is disappointed, we all wanted shiny 4k60fps graphics with 12.3tf of raytracing, amazing reflections and shadows, untold number of particles, character models that would make ND blush. Instead we got what appears to be a regression in graphics and special effects, and excuses (it's open world and has a big scope).

Talk about a shit show.!

I'm not disappointed. You just have to temper your expectation at the beginning of a generation. I liked the variety I saw in MS's presentation and some of the Sony games looked pretty cool as well. If nothing changes in 3 years, then be disappointed, but nothing has even been released yet, so patience is warranted.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

I'm not disappointed. You just have to temper your expectation at the beginning of a generation.

This has to be the worst excuse, I mean if the game looked like it was on par with state of the art games it would fit the Halo franchise--remember, these games used to be tech showcase for xbox... I mean, Gears 5 looks better.

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

This has to be the worst excuse, I mean if the game looked like it was on par with state of the art games it would fit the Halo franchise--remember, these games used to be tech showcase for xbox... I mean, Gears 5 looks better.

I've seen 8 minutes of a game that is supposed to be bigger than 2x Halo 4 and 5 combined. I figure I'll reserve judgement until we see more. The 4k feed video looked a lot better than the stream and a lot better than its given credit for, especially at 60fps. Also there is more to being a tech showcase than graphics.

 

[Darklor01]

I think MS want to have Gamepass be what they're about and the XBOX become an acceptable delivery platform. They currently have systems out there they have to continue to support as a promise to existing install base. I think they're trying to have Gamepass be as widely acceptable as possible across SKUs until they have proper next gen games available, only on XSX and deliverable through Gamepass at the highest quality.

Their issue is, they're torn between being a console mfr and a gaming delivery service. Their messaging is conflicting all the time, .. I think.. because they keep pivoting goals while trying to keep promises they made. They should just keep the single XSX SKU and get that down in price over time until all you have out there, for the most part, are Gamepass and XSX with higher end games on their service.
I think that's the real goal for them at this point.

 

[plip.plop]

I wish Microsoft would get rid of Aaron Greenberg and Major Nelson and the Exclusive/World Premiere voice. They're the worst part of any presentation. Greenberg reminds me of Comic book guy from the Simpsons, And Major Nelson just reminds me of any old guy that works at Best Buy as a sales associate.
I do think Sony does have a definite advantage over MS and Nintendo in information delivery. Owning a movie studio can help with that process in giving their presentations a slick performance. Even though they recently had that one awful E3 with the flute guy. More often than not, they are able to deliver a very good show.

 

[CitizenX]

Their whole community. Look, this has been going on for 7 yrs now and they have nothing to show except great indie titles. They act like gaming doesnt exsist without them, problem is, i along with millions havent played anything of theirs for over 10 yrs. Its the constant arrogance from Spencer and the rest of MS clowns. Spencer just needs to shut the fck up and let the actual talent of devs they now have produce and let the games do the talking...for once. THAT would be a start.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

How can you expect a company to go pro and real with its fans while guys like him explained the poor performance with a a poor excuse .. the same goes for Phil and other members , no denying there are games but let’s be honest here .. whenever MS tweet or hype for something it’s immediately goes off for me and we did say Xbox is such a good platform but it’s under the wrong men

I’m really hoping for a fresh team in every department .. things need to be fixed and yes the marketing is more more important than ever , underestimating your rivals for what ? A laugh? A lie ? ...




what do you think Gaf ? Do you like the way MS headed?

Curious, how would you answer the same question if you were in Greenburgs position?

Is there a way the guy can win or is he in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position?

 

[30yearsofhurt]

You want to know what will doom XSX for next gen?
TLOU2 and GOT.

Yep.

So many people will look at their PS4s and ask what did XBO or XB1X owners get in 2020?
Do I want a $400-500 console that doesn't get tentpole titles after two to three years?
One console is consistently getting great games every year, including new IPs, while the other is asking me to play Halo and Forza, again and again, and underdelivering on that too.

 

[Iorv3th]

Greenberg has always been a turd.

 

[Elder Legend]

As someone who has worked with Microsoft in my career throughout many years I've the pleasure of meeting socializing with folks such as Chris Lee (Did an interview at E3 2015 for Halo 5 Gaurdians), Bonnie Ross met her at a private E3 party along with Phil Spencer and Phil himself I almost always bummed into on every occasion.

Phil comes off as a very genuine type of a chill dude who you would not mind going to a bar with having a drink. Bonnie was also very nice to chit chat with and easy to get along.

I will never forget Phil going crazy over the jacket I was wearing at the time. He complimented twice in 1 conversation on my jacket It was a quite hilarious. I usually tend to dress to impress and usually works out for me.

My biggest take away from this as I've worked with these folks of many years are most likely the marketing people. I've never met Aaron but if I someone at Microsoft asked me for criticism of their operation I'd say they really need to make less confusing PR statements and be super clear with their messaging and drop some of their slogans that just confuse people even more while also getting rid of Aaron Greenberg.

The guy comes of as a fake fanboy with poor peoples skills and embarrasses them everytime he tweets.

 

[Goalus]

MS should learn with Sony and Nintendo: Just shut up... Show your content and your vision and hope for the best.

Sony took a while to learn, but they did.

They came and told everybody: This is the PS5, it can do this and that, those are the games we have right now. We hope you enjoy it.

While MS tried so hard to spin everything in it's favor with shit like: We are confident over the PS5, most powerful console, many games and so on.... They hype too much... So the expectations were too big and they delivered too little.... Also, they pander toxic gamers... They should stop that.

MS is basically right now the 3rd place dude:

And there's no 4th competitor....

The upcoming battle is not about whose plastic box sold more units.
It's about whose subscription service has more active users.

Sony will realize soon enough.
Sony fans will realize much later - or might be stuck in the denial stage forever, I think that's also possible.
MS has never been stronger than right now.

 

[A.Romero]

I don't think anyone can argue about how fun Halo can be, specially because it comes down to taste. The same way nobody can argue that 12 TF are needed to deliver what we saw on the video.

If Microsoft is going to focus on gamepass subs then that's fine. I think it will pay off the same way the Wii paid off for Nintendo accessing a new market that simply doesn't care about traditional gaming experiences. That said, Nintendo really committed and pushed a low cost low power console that was consistent with their vision. I fail to see the point of having a 12 TF console if you want to sell fun games above presentation or subs to play hundreds of older games / cloud gaming.

I can't imagine spending whatever XSX costs to get subpar graphics and being told "but it's fun!". If that's the vision just keep selling the XOX and invest all the R&D in really fun games that push boundaries not related to teraflops.

 

[SentientStone]

If Sony shows God of War PS5 and Silent Hills PS5 in Sony AAA quality next month, damn... Halo being Xbox's #1 franchise makes all its public showings extra important especially during this time of COVID induced cold console war tensions.

 

[Abear21]

The one big issue is that for consumers like me that are on the fence about buying an Xbox they showed me no reason to buy one yet.

I’m sure Halo will play like Halo and that’s great for fans that are going to buy Xbox regardless. For gamers like me that are undecided, show us games or experiences that look superior or different to anything else out would do that.

I actually feel Xbox is pushing me to buy a new PC. Flight Sim is coming out on that first, who knows when on Xbox, and all their games will be out on PC without having to pay for Live. Hopefully their next showcase is better, I’m surprised we haven’t seen more response or more great looking gameplay with the backlash they’ve had. Making excuses is lame, shut up the haters by showing is something that looks great, I’d think they would if they could and the fact they haven’t is worrying.