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[GametimeUK]

I'm completely neutral. If anything I was a Sony fanboy in my younger days.

Microsoft are now doing an incredible job. I think their main issue is they don't know how to correctly tap into the consumers minds. Nintendo and Sony are now nostalgia kings with a load of positive mind share. Nintendo can be inconsistent depending on the gen, but Sony can misfire like they did with PS3 and still end up doing well.

There is a load of hypocrisy when it comes to MS vs Sony too. Sony set the standard of what is important. When MS launched the XB1 they had a more steady stream of exclusives. Sony fans just pointed out their games were running better at higher resolutions.

When the Xbox One X was released the power was no longer the narrative. It was all about Sony's exclusives. Microsoft moneyhat an exclusive and DLC it is somehow bad, but Sony do it and they are applauded.

I think it's a messaging issue on Microsoft's part. They can't put anything across to the customer without it seeming shady. However, from a customer perspective I think they are blowing Sony out the water in terms of services and practices, however it's just the exclusives they fall short.

Digital refunds should be standard and yet others are behind the times so this is great from MS. Gamepass is a great option for many which anyone can appreciate on paper even if you don't subscribe. Backwards compatibility is fantastic and some games are actually enhanced. Cross buy with PC is also too notch. Your saves sync up, you can switch from Xbox in the living room to office on your PC and pick up where you left off. Throw in game streaming and you're on to a winner. I really am starting to see Xbox as more of a platform as opposed to a box that plays games and it's a great thing. They aren't there yet, but I appreciate what they are doing.

But yeah, I think it's due to their relationship with the customers. They just can't seem to resonate the same. Yet Sony can generate a load of hype by revealing a damn controller. They just seem more special. They have "it".

 

[turtlepowa]

Just how many threads dooming MS and xbox we need to have just because of a demo that didn't look all that great?

Don't you have a heart? That's more entertaining for many fanboys than actually playing games. So expect 5-10 threads a day for the next few weeks.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I think it's a messaging issue on Microsoft's part. They can't put anything across to the customer without it seeming shady. However, from a customer perspective I think they are blowing Sony out the water in terms of services and practices, however it's just the exclusives they fall short.

I am not sure lying about your next gen games being 2 years out by pretending you did it to be consumer friendly, counts as good business practice. Or to pretend there is going to be many cross gen games from Xbox First Party in the next two years, for the fans who can't afford to upgrade, when that list of games just hold the singular Halo Infinite by itself.

MS isn't "seemingly shady". They ARE SHADY.

 

[sonomamashine]

What's your explanation for us not seeing anything running on Series X hardware then?

There is no questions asked about Sony HZ2 "Captured from", there is only concerns around MS Xbox.

 

[speedomodel]

From my point of view I can see two issues .. one you already said it and it’s the marketing , such a bad approach tbh . The second thing is the way they think about AAA games . They never interested in heavy AAA games or let me phrase it more clearly , they don’t want to .. I never say to copy PlayStation but bring the AAA exclusives that make me want to hold the Xbox controller other than that why bothers making XSX in the first place?

I mean, I think they'll always need some marketing push of course. But, I think about how Series X has had these little mistakes that seem so silly. May event had wrong expectations set for a lot of people, July event was very similar, they've gone back and forth on the whole Series X exclusives discussion. Before, during, and after the event whether Series X will have games not release on Xbox One changes executive to executive. I believe Aaron is DIRECTLY responsible for this, maybe I'm wrong and don't fully know his role. But he should be telling Phil "this is how we explain the approach/philosophy" or "This is how we answers questions about XYZ".

The best marketing Xbox has made for Series X was the Game Awards reveal that got everyone talking and it WASN'T Aaron's idea! It was someone lower on the ladder who had the idea. It shows how badly they need new blood. So much confusion about nonsense and the marketing team is responsible for not having straight answers that are easily digestible ready to go when asked. Oh well, maybe he'll move on to Stadia or Amazon Studios at some point...

 

[Guilty_AI]

Don't you have a heart? That's more entertaining for many fanboys than actually playing games. So expect 5-10 threads a day for the next few weeks.

Things like these make me glad that i'm mostly into indie and AA games these days. Don't have to deal with any of these graphics and tech war bullshit.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

There is no questions asked about Sony HZ2 "Captured from", there is only concerns around MS Xbox.

What is there to ask? Sony even deliberately mandated that developers run their games on PS5 for the showcase. That is perfectly sensible and have nothing to question.

On the other hand, to not run the Halo demo on Series X hardware... You really don't see anything wrong with that, 4 months from launch?

 

[GHG]

There is no questions asked about Sony HZ2 "Captured from", there is only concerns around MS Xbox.

What on earth are you going on about? The stuff Sony showed was actually running on PS5 hardware, get over it.

That also has nothing to do with what I asked you or the topic at hand.

The fact that you are resorting to deflection, making things up and attempting to derail the thread speaks volumes.

 

[speedomodel]

I am not sure lying about your next gen games being 2 years out by pretending you did it to be consumer friendly, counts as good business practice. Or to pretend there is going to be many cross gen games from Xbox First Party in the next two years, for the fans who can't afford to upgrade, when that list of games just hold the singular Halo Infinite by itself.

MS isn't "seemingly shady". They ARE SHADY.

I'm not sure how this is lying? Is it spin? Sure. But lying? Like....what? It's taking a negative (i.e. these studios we bought aren't ready to release games yet) and makes a more positive light on it (i.e. hey! all our first party games will be on both consoles for a few years.). Is it marketing spin? Of course, but their not lying about it.

 

[mejin]

what do you think Gaf ? Do you like the way MS headed?

I think it is fine they have their own approach. It is not based on "new experiences" like nintendo and it is not the traditional gen like Sony.

 

[Fuz]

Its where I run netflix,amazon, hulu, hbomax, from as a central hub that also holds my movie collection

TV TV TV TV TV

 

[turtlepowa]

Things like these make me glad that i'm mostly into indie and AA games these days. Don't have to deal with any of these graphics and tech war bullshit.

Same. Spent much more time in smaller games like Terraria, Subnautica, My Time At Portia and so on than in all those big Sony or Microsoft games together.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I'm not sure how this is lying? Is it spin? Sure. But lying? Like....what? It's taking a negative (i.e. these studios we bought aren't ready to release games yet) and makes a more positive light on it (i.e. hey! all our first party games will be on both consoles for a few years.). Is it marketing spin? Of course, but their not lying about it.

Saying they did something to be consumer friendly, when they literally did nothing at all, is lying. And going back to the whole point of this discussion, you appear to agree that MS is shady by choice.

 

[LordOfChaos]

It's end of July and we're only four months from a holiday launch. I've never seen a game turn around that fast. The graphics aren't the end of the world, but if he's passing this off as not done, it does seem like trying to talk around it.

 

[Ten_Fold]

They just don’t know how to deliver, I swear the 360 must have been a mistake turned success. Sony’s gonna run circles around Microsoft again.

 

[anothertech]

What was CG at the PS5 conference?

He's trying to say the most impressive looking stuff at the conference was cg when it wasn't. Like the Horizon trailer.

Fight on warrior. Your poor Xbox needs you

 

[THEAP99]

Unprofessional executives that don’t take things seriously. It starts at the top.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

MS are suffering from the same issues they've had for over a decade; the leadership.

Their leaders are bean counters and salesmen, trying to making money, but that's not how you make money. You have to be more subtle, especially in a market as fickle as gaming, or any arts based industry.

Look at Sony. They're all suits, with the exception of Cerny who is an engineer. Allard was the same, he genuinely loved consoles and gaming and the people got behind him, they loved his passion and ultimately followed his lead. If a guy in power is passionate about the same hobby as you, you follow him, naturally.

Moore was a 'day walker'. He was a suit, 100% but he knew that to be successful he just needed to follow that passion and allow it to flourish. I know people play down the success of the 360 with "Sony dropped the ball", "one year head start" but the fact is, the change in management at Microsoft killed xbox. Plain and simple.

Back in 2010, the consoles were 5 years old, Microsoft, with their lead in sales and good will, decided to slam the breaks on and go in a different direction while alienating the people that brought them that success. The Xbox 720/3/Xbox One should have launched in 2012, just as Sony was finding its' footing again. The console wouldn't have had to be that powerful, just more powerful than the PS3. Gamers would have jumped en Mass and Sony would have been fucked.

TL;DR Microsoft haven't understood the market, their audience or what makes a console successful, since the days of Moore.

Microsoft, if you are reading, i can tell you, for free, how to win the next gen in 3 simple steps. Then when that works you can hire me.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

What was CG at the PS5 conference?

You know what, let us humour that thought for a minute.

Everything we have seen from Sony is running in engine and all of it was CGI. Not one bit was gameplay. That CGI was running on a vastly inferior machine VS XSX.

So why did Sony CGI still look better than XSX CGI?

Level the playing field across the board, in any metric, and the PS5 still looks better

 

[sonomamashine]

What is there to ask? Sony even deliberately mandated that developers run their games on PS5 for the showcase. That is perfectly sensible and have nothing to question.

On the other hand, to not run the Halo demo on Series X hardware... You really don't see anything wrong with that, 4 months from launch?

What on earth are you going on about? The stuff Sony showed was actually running on PS5 hardware, get over it.

That also has nothing to do with what I asked you or the topic at hand.

The fact that you are resorting to deflection, making things up and attempting to derail the thread speaks volumes.

Lol that's what you think, that disclaimer was vague, deal with it.

You know what, let us humour that thought for a minute.

Everything we have seen from Sony is running in engine and all of it was CGI. Not one bit was gameplay. That CGI was running on a vastly inferior machine VS XSX.

So why did Sony CGI still look better than XSX CGI?

Level the playing field across the board, in any metric, and the PS5 still looks better

See what happens when you miss Hell Blade trailer ? silly.

 

[GHG]

Lol that's what you think, that disclaimer was vague, deal with it.

See what happens when you miss Hell Blade trailer ? silly.

I don't even know why I bother lol. Believe whatever you want to believe.

 

[sonomamashine]

I don't even know why I bother lol. Believe whatever you want to believe.

Doesn't it apply to you ?
I'm confused why it's the others and not you ?
we are friends right ?

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Lol that's what you think, that disclaimer was vague, deal with it.

See what happens when you miss Hell Blade trailer ? silly.

The hell blade trailer, originally shown at the first Microsoft console was built on PC

Hell blade 2 isn't even in development according to the devs. "we will be building this on unreal engine 5" which I believe isn't going to devs until January 2021.

So, for all the "hellblade looks amazing" fluff, it isn't even being shown on an XSX. It was a PC trailer.

If we want to play that game, then we can count the unreal 5 trailer running on ps5 demo... Which still looks better than the hellblade 2 cinematic.

Xsx is underpowered. The 10vs12 tf yardstick is a lie. (in that more tf isn't an indactor of 'power')

 

[GHG]

Doesn't it apply to you ?
I'm confused why it's the others and not you ?
we are friends right ?

What you're currently doing is the console wars equivalent of "the earth is flat".

 

[carlosrox]

Sony is a safer and more reliable third party box.

(Their first party is better too)

That's about it.

MS had the right idea with the 360 but XB1 and Xbox One were both not it.

 

[HotPocket69]

Just how many threads dooming MS and xbox we need to have just because of a demo that didn't look all that great?

Just a few more

 

[sonomamashine]

The hell blade trailer, originally shown at the first Microsoft console was built on PC

Hell blade 2 isn't even in development according to the devs. "we will be building this on unreal engine 5" which I believe isn't going to devs until January 2021.

So, for all the "hellblade looks amazing" fluff, it isn't even being shown on an XSX. It was a PC trailer.

If we want to play that game, then we can count the unreal 5 trailer running on ps5 demo... Which still looks better than the hellblade 2 cinematic.

Xsx is underpowered. The 10vs12 tf yardstick is a lie. (in that more tf isn't an indactor of 'power')

Both of your posts are a joke.

What you're currently doing is the console wars equivalent of "the earth is flat".

How so ?

Sony is a safer and more reliable third party box.

(Their first party is better too)

That's about it.

MS had the right idea with the 360 but XB1 and Xbox One were both not it.

see what happens when you get misled by one party fans ?
This guy clearly having it wrong.

 

[carlosrox]

see what happens when you get misled by one party fans ?
This guy clearly having it wrong.

Not sure what you're trying to say.

 

[Grinchy]

I don't understand how Sony was able to show a full hour of games running on an actual PS5 in early June, but MS has nothing but alpha Halo footage from a PC and CGI trailers and we are supposed to pretend the pandemic only affected them.

 

[sonomamashine]

Not sure what you're trying to say.

What you said.

Sony is a safer and more reliable third party box.

 

[Zero7]

Too much damage control is Microsoft's biggest issue. They need a whole new PR team, if you ask me.

With only 3-4 months from releasing. Halo infinite should be in the final stages of development, not still work in progress. On any standpoint

They also went full damage control when the Xone unvieling but them hard on the ass.

Sony just let the games and the hardware do the talking, where as MS spread FUD.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Both of your posts are a joke.

How so ?

see what happens when you get misled by one party fans ?
This guy clearly having it wrong.

OK you're clearly a shill.

 

[sonomamashine]

OK you're clearly a shill.

Clearly.

Goes both ways, confusion about PS5 boost clock, games showcased looked current gen on the Ps5 show mixed with CG, basically both company's did the same thing.
But no people ! Blame MS just because...
C'mon guys stop the fanboy nonsense, everyone is being dupe here.

If that makes me a shill, what are you ?
Extremist ? Fanatic ? The Real Shill ?

 

[Freeman]

MS would have a much easier time if instead of working on PR spins they just made some good games.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Clearly.

If that makes me a shill, what are you ?
Extremist ? Fanatic ? The Real Shill ?

Clearly.

If you can't see why long term diehard Xbox fans are pissed off, then you're either stupid, or a shill.

This is kinect all over again

 

[sonomamashine]

Clearly.

If you can't see why long term diehard Xbox fans are pissed off, then you're either stupid, or a shill.

This is kinect all over again

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Good.

You can't back up anything you're saying and resort to one liners to dodge the burden of proof.

You're the same as the politics shills who can't offer an opinion.

 

[bitbydeath]

If you gave it an unbiased perspective :
you will see the difference on third party games
you will see the difference in resolution/fps
you will see difference graphically
there is no downplaying, just facts 12 > 10, and it will show up in the upcoming years.
Phil came off very credible if you give it a second read.

You’ve got to admit it’s not looking good so far. Many were hoping that Xbox event to prove the difference between PS5 and XSX when instead it made the PS5 look stronger by a large degree. Some even go as far to downplay the HZ2 graphics.

 

[sonomamashine]

You’ve got to admit it’s not looking good so far. Many were hoping that Xbox event to prove the difference between PS5 and XSX when instead it made the PS5 look stronger by a large degree. Some even go as far to downplay the HZ2 graphics.

I already said that Halo was horrible on the next gen thread, (for me) both company's (ms, sony) under delivered, i just want better games that's all, i have no horse on this race, i criticize both company's, at this point i just hope they drop 4K and go with 1440p, i just wanna see new stuff that where not possible on current gen, not the same visuals at 4k.
As for Horizon situation, remember that demo reveal they made with the first one on ps4 (real gameplay), that's what i want to see, at this point you already know how shady those company's get to attract viewers to buy the product.
I did like everwild & Avawed.
People get heated when they read me criticizing sony, automatically think i'm on Ms camp, Sony need to be criticized so next time they release a console they do it right, we where all agreeing before release that a certain number of teraflops wasn't enough.

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

Clearly.

If you can't see why long term diehard Xbox fans are pissed off, then you're either stupid, or a shill.

This is kinect all over again

This is far from Kinect again. This is mostly Sony fans doing the best they can to diminish the fact the the xbox is the more powerful machine. Period. It doesn't matter if Halo is terrible or MS showed a bunch of CGI trailers.. the Xbox is still the more powerful machine.

The absolute humor about some of the criticism from Sony fans is they are being critical for things Sony has done for years. CGI trailers and showing games too far out is a Sony staple at E3. This is the same fanatical base that did a wide spread circle jerk over a logo reveal that looked just like the previous logo. You can't argue with fanaticism.

Watching the Halo video on 4k youtube.. It looks like Halo... A bigger Halo 60fps Halo. Not sure what people thought it was going to look like.

 

[turtlepowa]

This is far from Kinect again. This is mostly Sony fans doing the best they can to diminish the fact the the xbox is the more powerful machine. Period. It doesn't matter if Halo is terrible or MS showed a bunch of CGI trailers.. the Xbox is still the more powerful machine.

The absolute humor about some of the criticism from Sony fans is they are being critical for things Sony has done for years. CGI trailers and showing games too far out is a Sony staple at E3. This is the same fanatical base that did a wide spread circle jerk over a logo reveal that looked just like the previous logo. You can't argue with fanaticism.

Watching the Halo video on 4k youtube.. It looks like Halo... A bigger Halo 60fps Halo. Not sure what people thought it was going to look like.

They are also shitting on the Halo gameplay. On the other hand they are celebrating dodge roll spam + bowshot, crouching + throwing bottles/stones, braindead a.i. stealth kills and throwing axes as great gameplay. Sometimes i wish there would be no exclusive games at all. So much hate instead of enjoying a hobby together.

 

[Captain Hero]

Most of you guys agreed on the marketing issue and the way they think about games for not focusing on AAA ..
I hope they do something about the PR team because it’s an important section in the company and the way you show fans what are you and what you got for them without misleading info

thanks for everyone who put their opinions and enlightened us with Solutions and ways to improve Xbox department..

 

[cormack12]

I feel more like Sony studio's are working from a blueprint. That can be good or bad, but there are certain elements with high production across most, if not all, of their titles. It's like they challenge each other and force each other to raise the bar, while also learning from each other and maybe transferring skills and ideas via technical groups with ICE members. This is just my perception, it could obviously be wrong. I feel MS is making the right moves strategically but they lack that unifying vision. You can see certain philosophies that carry across games. Naughty Dog with the littered floors and decay/dirt to add character which has carried across into Uncharted. The dynamic grass and particles from Horizon being moved into Ghosts, the dynamic animals from Lost Legacy through to Ghosts. These are obviously also seen in third party titles like RDR2, Origins/Odyssey but there seems to be a real drive to continually iterate on that and absorb each new enhancement into the games. And I think that's why the Halo demo felt 'empty'. At the start there were a flurry of squirrels on the floor - some birds later on maybe? but it generally felt like you were just in an older game, not because it was bad, but because arguably all the little extra bells and whistles were missing (e.g. wind blowing dust, tyre tracks of the car, pine needles riding the wind). What little movement there was felt orchestrated (e.g. reach this marker, trigger this event). However, this section was to demo gameplay, not showcase graphics which was what was asked for. Despite the gameplay looking fairly solid, all the conversation has been round how it looks. Which is probably why we don't get many gameplay demo's. We should remember that. Plus there's little to no infom on performance/quality modes etc.

I know a lot has been made of Craig but I'm not too fussed on that. The psiosn, vex and cabal are hardly great models/achievements in Destiny 2. I think people were always going to look to dump on the conference, but we just weren't expecting such a layup from Microsoft.

In terms of Halo itself, I didn't see anything that made me think it was drastically in worse shape than Valhalla or Cyberpunk from what we've see of those as well. Whether it's jank, lighting, flatness etc. they all look to have 'oven time' required. I have so many great memories of Halo and this was like a love letter to those first games I felt. Probably the most controversial thing you could say is that "..in 2020, can you really afford to have your flagship IP as an FPS?". There's no longer that competitiveness there, the juggernauts are there every year and are established. Maybe it's time to consider the franchise changing genre to sci-fi TPS instead.

From the two shows, I saw more I was interested in at the MS show, but acknowledge we haven't seen what Sony's tier1 studio's are doing next. All in all, I think both showed me a good reason to not buy a new console until next year. At the moment, they've gone back to the 360 era selling point, where the majority of third parties were the place to be but at that point they had the edge in visuals and the edge with XBL emerging. They haven't done enough to win that market share back at launch for me which is really what they were aiming for.

I think the bigger questions shuold really focus on why has progress been so slow in making up that gap from last generation by Microsoft? Whether it's corporate overhead, lack of decision making, prioritising gamepass this was their chance to reset. Look at Nintendo, there has been a significant drought lately, but they took the lessons learned from the Wii U and made sure they had a number of day one exclusives to get that penetration and off on the right foot. And their launch was successful.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Most of you guys agreed on the marketing issue and the way they think about games for not focusing on AAA ..
I hope they do something about the PR team because it’s an important section in the company and the way you show fans what are you and what you got for them without misleading info

thanks for everyone who put their opinions and enlightened us with Solutions and ways to improve Xbox department..

What? The PR team did an excellent job. They were trying to disguise the lack of 1st party Series X games at launch as pro-consumer. And by the time the true came out the Xbox customers had enough time to accept it and thus was far less angry. The talk about porting down ended up being a smokescreen, as there is no porting down whatsoever. Halo Infinite is an Xbox One game, plain and simple.

There is no marketing confusion, at least not accidental ones. The goal of PR is to make bad new really hard to comprehend until it was a month later, by which time it is too late to get angry.

Xbox was always aiming for Gamepass, while trying to stop existing customers from walking out. I say they did a splendid job, consider the number of people defending recent events.

Being misleading is not a bug; it is the feature.

 

[demigod]

He's trying to say the most impressive looking stuff at the conference was cg when it wasn't. Like the Horizon trailer.

Fight on warrior. Your poor Xbox needs you

The sad thing is, he’s a self proclaimed sony fan, i kid you not.

 

[kraspkibble]

i think MS are fine. sure Halo looked a bit rough but it's not out yet and they are obviously still working on it. i'm still ditching Playstation for Xbox. PS5 has 2 exclusives they've showed so far that interest me (Horizon/Demons Souls) where as Xbox has:

Halo
Forza
State of Decay
Flight Sim
Avowed
Fable
Everwild

and that's not all them. Plus, Game Pass is very tempting. Not to mention Series X is more powerful so more stable framerates and higher resolution.

Eh I'll pick up a PS5 in a few years when prices drop and only if Sony can match MS exclusives.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

i think MS are fine. sure Halo looked a bit rough but it's not out yet and they are obviously still working on it. i'm still ditching Playstation for Xbox. PS5 has 2 exclusives they've showed so far that interest me (Horizon/Demons Souls) where as Xbox has:

Halo
Forza
State of Decay
Flight Sim
Avowed
Fable
Everwild

and that's not all them. Plus, Game Pass is very tempting. Not to mention Series X is more powerful so more stable framerates and higher resolution.

Eh I'll pick up a PS5 in a few years when prices drop and only if Sony can match MS exclusives.

Other than Halo and Flight simulator, every other exclusive you listed is not going to come out until two years later. So you would be playing Halo Infinite for the next two years. I hope you are aware of that? Or did you not pay attention?

 

[Eliciel]

How can you expect a company to go pro and real with its fans while guys like him explained the poor performance with a a poor excuse .. the same goes for Phil and other members , no denying there are games but let’s be honest here .. whenever MS tweet or hype for something it’s immediately goes off for me and we did say Xbox is such a good platform but it’s under the wrong men

I’m really hoping for a fresh team in every department .. things need to be fixed and yes the marketing is more more important than ever , underestimating your rivals for what ? A laugh? A lie ? ...




what do you think Gaf ? Do you like the way MS headed?

Terribly handled, this is very bad PR work.
Comparable to offensive stance while the fight itself has become defensive ...I almost feel offended by his explanation, lol.
Aaron is a terrible communication leader.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

This is far from Kinect again. This is mostly Sony fans doing the best they can to diminish the fact the the xbox is the more powerful machine. Period. It doesn't matter if Halo is terrible or MS showed a bunch of CGI trailers.. the Xbox is still the more powerful machine.

The absolute humor about some of the criticism from Sony fans is they are being critical for things Sony has done for years. CGI trailers and showing games too far out is a Sony staple at E3. This is the same fanatical base that did a wide spread circle jerk over a logo reveal that looked just like the previous logo. You can't argue with fanaticism.

Watching the Halo video on 4k youtube.. It looks like Halo... A bigger Halo 60fps Halo. Not sure what people thought it was going to look like.

Except i'm not a Sony fan. Your obsession with the criticism spawning from just Sony fans is strange.

I wanted it to look like it was running on software releasing this year, not something that the X could do.

again, if you can't see why xbox fans or gamers in general are pissed off, that's on you

 

[JTCx]

The issue is that MS doesnt want to shut the fuck up.