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[kingfey]

Yeah, they likely are low sales mostly across the board except for COD and 1 or 2 others. I could certainly believe that.

So now xbox top charts are low sales? I really don't get your point.

Are you honestly saying the top 10 games on xbox are low sales for that month?

 

[Stuart360]

Because you have no basis for your Gamepass is slowing spin. At the moment MS is still giving a low cost entry to the Gamepass ecosystem, it's a long term strategy and obviously not a huge revenue driver at first.
Therefore coming to the conclusion that Gamepass is slowing based on revenue is a nonsensical statement. When the service is full of permanent first party entries and those low cost entry deals are over not only do those accounts move to full price but the need to fill the service with expensive third party deals diminishes.

In the press release it even mentions Gamepass 'growth'.
But as usual in these threads, if Microsoft dont give actual numbers, its all doom and gloom.

 

[kingfey]

I think its still too early to predict 84mil sales for X and S. I'lm still going to stick to my 70-80mil prediction.
We really need a full year of all the consoles sitting on store shelves to really get an idea where we are at.

It should be higher. My estimate would be 120m, while ps5 is 150m-170m.

Main reason is the amount of gamers we have now. 2014 kids are 18 years old, and can buy their own consoles.

Another reason is the production. We have tools to make systems faster, . With enough warehouses, both companies should produce more and keep up with demands.

Only big obstacle is wafers.

Games shouldn't be a problem, since both consoles have big hitters getting cooked right now, which will release in 4 years.

 

[Riky]

In the press release it even mentions Gamepass 'growth'.
But as usual in these threads, if Microsoft dont give actual numbers, its all doom and gloom.

Yeah it's just low quality trolling from the usual suspects in every Xbox thread, looks like the record hardware sales for Xbox has them shook.

 

[Stuart360]

It should be higher. My estimate would be 120m, while ps5 is 150m-170m.

Main reason is the amount of gamers we have now. 2014 kids are 18 years old, and can buy their own consoles.

Another reason is the production. We have tools to make systems faster, . With enough warehouses, both companies should produce more and keep up with demands.

Only big obstacle is wafers.

Games shouldn't be a problem, since both consoles have big hitters getting cooked right now, which will release in 4 years.

Well i dont know about that but it would certainly be nice for all involved!.

 

[kingfey]

Yeah it's just low quality trolling from the usual suspects in every Xbox thread, looks like the record hardware sales for Xbox has them shook.

My estimation would be for every series console gets sold 1/4th would sub to a gamepass. Especially, with Microsoft advertising it on the dashboard.

 

[kingfey]

Well i dont know about that but it would certainly be nice for all involved!.

My little brother was in elementary school when the ps4 comeout. Now he finished his high-school, and is getting to a college. Gave him a ps5 to play with his friends.

 

[Riky]

My estimation would be for every series console gets sold 1/4th would sub to a gamepass. Especially, with Microsoft advertising it on the dashboard.

They did release some figures after launch about Gamepass uptake from new users, I'll have to look them up.

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

Because you have no basis for your Gamepass is slowing spin. At the moment MS is still giving a low cost entry to the Gamepass ecosystem, it's a long term strategy and obviously not a huge revenue driver at first.
Therefore coming to the conclusion that Gamepass is slowing based on revenue is a nonsensical statement. When the service is full of permanent first party entries and those low cost entry deals are over not only do those accounts move to full price but the need to fill the service with expensive third party deals diminishes.

No no… I literally do have a basis. THE EARNINGS REPORT.

If the growth was not slowing, then the content and services sector would not be declining. Growing services should be a revenue driver, they should not be a PROFIT driver. It’s the profits which suffer on growth services as they’re pushed to long term goals, but the revenue should be constantly growing in a long term growth service.

 

[Bryank75]

So now xbox top charts are low sales? I really don't get your point.

Are you honestly saying the top 10 games on xbox are low sales for that month?

I'm just saying that it is very possible.
I have my biases, people here know that but it's an honest opinion

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

In the press release it even mentions Gamepass 'growth'.
But as usual in these threads, if Microsoft dont give actual numbers, its all doom and gloom.

It can still be growing while growth is slowing, you know?

 

[Gravemind]

Don't worry guys, Nadella is totally going to shut down a division making $15 billion and the Series X will be the final Xbox console.

Really makes me laugh thinking back to when certain posters on here swore that the Series X would be Microsofts last console and that it would be an even worse generation than the Xbox One.

Bo Hazeem must be just furious right now. I feel bad for the drywall in his room.

 

[Stuart360]

It can still be growing while growth is slowing, you know?

Of course, i even said that in one of my earlier posts.
I think maybe they will only tell us numbers when they hit certain milestones, like 30mil.

 

[Rivet]

In the press release it even mentions Gamepass 'growth'.
But as usual in these threads, if Microsoft dont give actual numbers, its all doom and gloom.

Because they have a long history of reporting every success and hiding bad numbers.

They basically stopped reporting console sales when they lost hope of being anything other than last place in any foreseeable future... It's hard to believe it's purely random.

And to be fair, most companies do that. They kinda obfuscate bad numbers, and shout good ones, if only to push share prices higher and show optimism.

Do you really think they wouldn't tell us if gamepass was setting the world on fire?

But success or failure for Gamepass loss leader strategy won't be known for years anyway. They're in for the long run.

When they release their 1st party AAA games though, if subscriptions don't skyrocket, that's when Gamepass is in trouble.

 

[TheGodfather07]

does anyone remember the first year sales for 360 and xbox one? i may be wrong but wasnt 360 pretty bad with only like 6m sold first year? no idea about xbox one.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Very nice growth

Be nice to see some profit numbers already with how much revenue they're raking in

 

[Hitchyhero]

The fact that Game Pass and first party revenues weren’t even able to full offset that third party drop is extremely telling. It tells me that Gamepass growth is slowing, the costs of the service are increasing with so many developers to pay costs for and also that third party games are not selling as well, as many Xbox owners have enough in their sub and don’t need to buy third party titles as much any more, which I expected.

If Gamepass was making a profit, you can guarantee they’d be shouting it from the rooftops. Notice aswell that Satya highlighted the hardware sales figures, not so much on Gamepass performance.

Sony fans are really desperate for gamepass to fail lol

 

[Tutomos]

There are about 20 million hardcore Xbox gamers out there. Once it's past that number, the sales will slow down.

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

Because they have a long history of reporting every success and hiding bad numbers.

They basically stopped reporting console sales when they lost hope of being anything other than last place in any foreseeable future... It's hard to believe it's purely random.

And to be fair, most companies do that. They kinda obfuscate bad numbers, and shout good ones, if only to push share prices higher and show optimism.

Do you really think they wouldn't tell us if gamepass was setting the world on fire?

But success or failure for Gamepass loss leader strategy won't be known for years anyway. They're in for the long run.

When they release their 1st party AAA games though, if subscriptions don't skyrocket, that's when they're in trouble.

Exactly. Nail on the head. If the service was profitable, they’d report individual numbers. If the service was growing at a very impressive rate, they’d report individual numbers. They’re bundling all of GP, third party and first party revenue (ie. literally all of the main revenue and profit drivers of a gaming division) to obfuscate the individual performance.

Yet hardware sales, a low profit driver due to small margins (or often losses), and something they’ve said isn’t too important to them because they’re focused on Gamepass, not which platform you play on, is the number they’re leading with.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

The ecosystem they have created is brilliant this gen, very polished and reliable across what I use -

• Series X (mine)
• Xbox One X (son)
• OG Xbox (daughter)
• Gamepass
• PC (GP ultimate)
• Elite controller 2 (xbox and PC and surface)
• Family sharing
• Parental controls (browser and mobile app too)
• Movies, apps, cloud and generally just doing what you need or being auto-sync'd on whatever device or browser is awesome
• Preview for xCloud (waiting on the full service in Aus still)
• Friends management (parties, LFG, privacy, sharing clips/screenshots)

Tight and slick are the words I choose to describe Xbox this generation. My kids are installing games from GP and getting their friends in on the action, I'm recommending it to parents to save some coin and generally purchases/gifts are flowing on from there e.g. kids friends bdays are xbox cards making things easy or just gifted digitally during lockdown times. I'm getting mates to install games and they are with me as well e.g. The Ascent day one we have 4 coop lined up already, insanity.

Well deserved and it's only getting started.
-Chief out

 

[Stuart360]

There are about 20 million hardcore Xbox gamers out there. Once it's past that number, the sales will slow down.

You;re forgetting Gamepass is on PC. Also where do you get the 20mil Xbox gamers from?

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Xbox is doing the best it's ever done and Microsoft itself is on fire. And this is BEFORE all their exclusives start releasing. Oh man!!! Xbox baby!!! Whooo!!!!

 

[kingfey]

I'm just saying that it is very possible.
I have my biases, people here know that but it's an honest opinion

I was just surprised there. I get the low console compared to Playstation, but it would be literally impossible for them have low sales, especially when xbox doesn't even have any 1st party games.

So their users would buy any new games.

Scarlet nexus benefited from that. The no 1st party games helped it hit top 6 on the chart. That is what happens when gamers have money, and nowhere to spend.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Must be because Gamepass needs to be making $5B a month by itself in order to be sustainable.

I'm dead brah

 

[MOTM]

It's disappointing that Microsoft still doesn't reveal the number of consoles or games sold.

Disappointing for who?

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

Sony fans are really desperate for gamepass to fail lol

As someone who owns quite a few shares in Microsoft, I’m really not desperate for it to fail at all, but I’m analysing this financial report as an investor and this is the conclusion I’m taking from it.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I'm dead brah

Thank god my besto friend Jim Ryan got rid of him

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

Must be because Gamepass needs to be making $5B a month by itself in order to be sustainable.

In revenue terms, it would want to be making somewhere in that region eventually to make it worth Microsoft putting so many resources behind it, as running that many studios is quite a costly procedure, and they’re going all in on Gamepass.

 

[kingfey]

No no… I literally do have a basis. THE EARNINGS REPORT.

If the growth was not slowing, then the content and services sector would not be declining. Growing services should be a revenue driver, they should not be a PROFIT driver. It’s the profits which suffer on growth services as they’re pushed to long term goals, but the revenue should be constantly growing in a long term growth service.

You cant invest in a business, if it doesn't have some form of profit.

The reason why we aren't seeing any profit on gamepass, is investment. Ms is in investing mode. Any money gamepass makes, would directly go to the service. The aren't using that money to claim profit. They are using it for deals, new games, and their 1st party games to produce more new games.

Its why netflix was taking alot of debts. It was focusing on improving its content. Now they are very comfortable using their own content, especially when big players are taking their contents away from the service.

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

You cant invest in a business, if it doesn't have some form of profit.

The reason why we aren't seeing any profit on gamepass, is investment. Ms is in investing mode. Any money gamepass makes, would directly go to the service. The aren't using that money to claim profit. They are using it for deals, new games, and their 1st party games to produce more new games.

Its why netflix was taking alot of debts. It was focusing on improving its content. Now they are very comfortable using their own content, especially when big players are taking their contents away from the service.

That is literally what I said in my post if you read it properly, the profit is not expected to be there yet, but they should be growing revenue.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

they sold all their xboxes and the list price of $500 is the highest they've had iirc so no surprise it is a record Q.

XB One also sold for that much initially...

 

[kingfey]

That is literally what I said in my post if you read it properly, the profit is not expected to be there yet, but they should be growing revenue.

Must have missed out. Sorry for repeating it again.

 

[VAL0R]

Xbox fans are too dumb to see this is real bad because imagine how mad all those new Series X owners are gonna be when they finally realize XBOX AINT GOT NO GAMES DOG! Game Pass has to go up before it can go down! Phil Spencer lies. Rivet don't need breasts. PlayStation rules!

 

[Leyasu]

In revenue terms, it would want to be making somewhere in that region eventually to make it worth Microsoft putting so many resources behind it, as running that many studios is quite a costly procedure, and they’re going all in on Gamepass.

How much do you think that it costs to run their studios every month ?

 

[MOTM]

So no GP numbers in 2 quarters now, guess we are already nearly hitting the ceiling there.

Also no profit figure... Probably means there wasn't any.

I can see the XSX is still selling out but the XSS seems to be dead in the water in Europe at least, seen similar pics from the states.

The third party drop was forseeable but I thought it would be greater, will be interesting to see how 3rd parties deal with it going forward.

We know you would sell a kidney if it would slow down Gamepass.

Don’t worry, next time they announce Gamepass numbers will be by the end of the year when they hit 30 million subscribers.

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

Must have missed out. Sorry for repeating it again.

That’s fine, I was replying to Riky who said that Gamepass revenues not growing yet is fine because it’s a long term game. But that’s not true, as you said yourself, it’s profits which aren’t expected to grow yet due to investment. But revenue should still be increasing because that is what should be growing from a service like Gamepass. Revenue grows now, and profit comes later when the initial investment period is over and investments have dropped to a stable level.

 

[TheGodfather07]

according to microsofts official financial reports, xbox 360 shipped 5m units in the same timeframe. its a pretty low bar to beat honestly.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Xbox fans are too dumb to see this is real bad because imagine how mad all those new Series X owners are gonna be when they finally realize XBOX AINT GOT NO GAMES DOG! Game Pass has to go up before it can go down! Phil Spencer lies. Rivet don't need breasts. PlayStation rules!

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

How much do you think that it costs to run their studios every month ?

Between staff costs, office space, technical costs etc, a lot of money, definitely over $100m, and that’s assuming no further acquisitions. We know that’s false as they’ve been linked to further purchases and MS has hinted that they’re still in the market.

Then deduct the cost of marketing, the costs of third party deals on Gamepass, the costs of running xCloud as a service. The ultimate goal should be around multiple billion a month in raw revenue terms across all platforms, to be making enough profit and cash for Microsoft to justify allocating so many resources in acquisitions and upfront investment in third party deals as they’re doing now. I would be surprised if Satya is not expecting to eventually, far down the line, reach multiple billion a month for Gamepass.

They generated around 16 billion in cash this quarter as a company. That means Bethesda was over half of the entire free cashflow generation in one of MS’s best quarters ever. That is a HUGE investment for a small piece of Microsoft’s overall portfolio, next to the juggernauts of Windows, Office 365 and Azure.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Something interesting to consider here: MS's annual gaming revenue figures are actually really good when compared to Sony's, considering from reports Sony seem to have about 3 million or so more PS5s' sold to the Series systems, and outsold MS last gen 2.25:1 to 2.5:1. Yet, MS's revenue numbers as a whole for the Xbox division are only ~ $7 billion less than Sony's peak for PS division ($22.5 billion), or only 46% less.

Comparatively, Sony have a hardware install base (between PS4 & PS5; figure this is fair since bot them and MS are still in a cross-gen period) of at least 125% over Microsoft (might actually be 150%, assuming XBO sales topped out at about 50 million and PS4 crossed 120 million).

Just goes to show something I was trying to get across a while ago: hardware sales don't say as much about ecosystem engagement and revenue (or if previous numbers given are being remembered right, profit) as some people think. That's why it's always been dangerous to use hardware sales as the end-all, be-all for judging what platform is doing "best" or which one isn't, especially this day and age.

 

[Zok310]

No profits, no units sold, no update on GP user count?

 

[TheGodfather07]

Something interesting to consider here: MS's annual gaming revenue figures are actually really good when compared to Sony's, considering from reports Sony seem to have about 3 million or so more PS5s' sold to the Series systems, and outsold MS last gen 2.25:1 to 2.5:1. Yet, MS's revenue numbers as a whole for the Xbox division are only ~ $7 billion less than Sony's peak for PS division ($22.5 billion), or only 46% less.

Comparatively, Sony have a hardware install base (between PS4 & PS5; figure this is fair since bot them and MS are still in a cross-gen period) of at least 125% over Microsoft (might actually be 150%, assuming XBO sales topped out at about 50 million and PS4 crossed 120 million).

Just goes to show something I was trying to get across a while ago: hardware sales don't say as much about ecosystem engagement and revenue (or if previous numbers given are being remembered right, profit) as some people think. That's why it's always been dangerous to use hardware sales as the end-all, be-all for judging what platform is doing "best" or which one isn't, especially this day and age.

"only $7 billion"

dont know about you but thats a shit load. isnt that how much microsoft aquired bethesda for?

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

Something interesting to consider here: MS's annual gaming revenue figures are actually really good when compared to Sony's, considering from reports Sony seem to have about 3 million or so more PS5s' sold to the Series systems, and outsold MS last gen 2.25:1 to 2.5:1. Yet, MS's revenue numbers as a whole for the Xbox division are only ~ $7 billion less than Sony's peak for PS division ($22.5 billion), or only 46% less.

Comparatively, Sony have a hardware install base (between PS4 & PS5; figure this is fair since bot them and MS are still in a cross-gen period) of at least 125% over Microsoft (might actually be 150%, assuming XBO sales topped out at about 50 million and PS4 crossed 120 million).

Just goes to show something I was trying to get across a while ago: hardware sales don't say as much about ecosystem engagement and revenue (or if previous numbers given are being remembered right, profit) as some people think. That's why it's always been dangerous to use hardware sales as the end-all, be-all for judging what platform is doing "best" or which one isn't, especially this day and age.

But the hardware sales are literally dominating the numbers here, that is the entire takeaway for this earnings report. Both consoles are selling everything they can make at the moment due to supply constraints. That obviously prevents Sony from taking a major lead, as they can’t sell more than they can manufacture.

 

[Leyasu]

Between staff costs, office space, technical costs etc, a lot of money, definitely over $100m.

Then deduct the cost of marketing, the costs of third party deals on Gamepass, the costs of running xCloud as a service. The ultimate goal should be around multiple billion a month in raw revenue terms across all platforms, to be making enough profit and cash for Microsoft to justify allocating so many resources in acquisitions and upfront investment in third party deals as they’re doing now. I would be surprised if Satya is not expecting to eventually, far down the line, reach multiple billion a month for Gamepass.

Yeah I would’ve estimated north of 100m a month all in for their studios.

It is a little bit harder to estimate the rest though.

 

[Hitchyhero]

This thread went exactly how I thought it would. Impossible to have a positive xbox thread on this forum

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

That obviously prevents Sony from taking a major lead, as they can’t sell more than they can manufacture.

The same goes for Xbox mate. It's a two way street. Sony was always going to be strong out of the gate early this gen and they continue to be in front of Xbox, Switch is just dominating though. As for mid-late this gen it will be far more interesting in terms of the Sony vs Xbox sales and profits. Currently Xbox generate a higher percentage of profit and Sony sell more hardware. Things will change this gen progresses.

 

[AdjudicatorHead]

Yeah I would’ve estimated north of 100m a month all in for their studios.

It is a little bit harder to estimate the rest though.

Definitely hard to estimate the rest. But if the final goal for Gamepass is only a single billion a month at absolute peak, between the studio running costs, marketing costs, third party licensing costs, server blade capital expenditure and continuous running costs, plus the amortised capital expenditure for the acquisitions, it’s not leaving a huge amount of profits. You’d think upwards of 10 billion for acquisitions would generate more ROI than that in other divisions of Microsoft.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Really makes me laugh thinking back to when certain posters on here swore that the Series X would be Microsofts last console and that it would be an even worse generation than the Xbox One.

Bo Hazeem must be just furious right now. I feel bad for the drywall in his room.

Series X?

There were people saying Xbox One was going to be the last console! lol

 

[prinz_valium]

Great hardware numbers, but services numbers give me pause. Breaking even compared to last year even after a strong launch of next gen consoles? What?

Gaming

• Gaming revenue increased $357 million or 11% driven by growth in Xbox hardware, offset in part by a decline in Xbox content and services.
• Xbox hardware revenue increased 172% driven by higher price and volume of consoles sold due to the Xbox Series X|S launches.
• Xbox content and services revenue decreased $128 million or 4% driven by a decline in third-party titles on a strong prior year comparable that benefitted from stay-at-home scenarios, offset in part by growth in Xbox Game Pass subscriptions and first-party titles.

I thought they had Outriders and MLB The Show? Gamepass numbers were looking up and up. I believe they added something like 12 million users since April of last year?

I also dont know why they are blaming last year's quarter. What games released in the April to June period on xbox last year? I really cant think of any. PS4 had FF7 and TLOU2, but i dont remember seeing any major third party launches either. This year we had RE8 which shouldve been big. I still think they shouldve gone out and gotten RE8 instead of MLB the Show and Outriders. MLB is very American oriented and no one had even heard of Outriders before the face/offs.

Lack of first party sales are hurting their numbers as well. Really hope they start to churn out content fast because not taking advantage of hungry new console owners is a big missed opportunity. You arent selling consoles to make money. You are selling consoles to make sure those buyers spend MORE money which they dont seem to be doing right now. Absolutely insane if you think about it.

Would love to see Sonys numbers compared to last year. See if RE8, Ratchet and Returnal helped them post better numbers compared to last year when TLOU2 sold $240 million worth of copies in just one weekend, and FF7 sold a shit ton of copies in April.

It was the Fortnite COVID bump.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Thank god my besto friend Jim Ryan got rid of him

But my ghost is still here and Jim has no tech to deal with that. I win.