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LTT has built a PC that outperforms PS5 at the same price point

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Even buying from the cheapest key shop, you are not spending 10€ to get triple a games on day one. I don't think that people that want to spend as little as possible on games care about building a library. I don't understand why you are talking about digital games when in my example I'm excluding them from the equation entirely. Ps plus isn't required for free to play games, which is 90%+ of online games today.
Yes, this is my example of cheap gaming on console, where you get any game that you want for a couple of months and then resell it for 85% of the price.
If bundle deals gave games coming out now for free there would be no contest, but we know that's not our reality.

Like I said if you’re buying games only to go through the hassle of selling them as quickly as possibly to recoup money then you’re better off using Game Pass. You’re only renting, so much better value to subscribe to that.

In fact your most cost effective solution is to use Microsoft rewards to get Game Pass for free or close to it.

For people that buy their games to own their games there’s no contest. Especially if the goal is to spend as little as possible.
 

Sertyak

Neo Member
Like I said if you’re buying games only to go through the hassle of selling them as quickly as possibly to recoup money then you’re better off using Game Pass. You’re only renting, so much better value to subscribe to that.

In fact your most cost effective solution is to use Microsoft rewards to get Game Pass for free or close to it.

For people that buy their games to own their games there’s no contest. Especially if the goal is to spend as little as possible.
Is gamepass giving me any new triple a game on day one? Is it giving me playstation exclusives?

Gamepass is 150€ a year for games that I can't choose, while I can get any physical games I want.

Yes, if you like to own games and build a library, PC is the best platform. I am just saying that 90% of people play a game to completion and then don't touch it for years or even forever.
I am not saying that my solution isn't without negatives, what I am arguing is that you can spend so little and get almost everything, thanks to the physical market.
 

Elysium44

Banned
Because it's not needed. What year you guys think this is? 1997?

Why would you not? There seems to be an obsession with doing everything on the cheap, which to me is dirty poor.

Windows has been free to upgrade since Windows 7 if you had a legit licence then.
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Windows has been free to upgrade since Windows 7 if you had a legit licence then.
Exactly and every and their dog has a Windows license so why are we pretending that you'll need a new one? Besides that, you can find licenses for like $10 on third-party key sites. The Windows license argument is stupid. The price of the OS is a literal non-factor in the cost of a new build.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Is gamepass giving me any new triple a game on day one? Is it giving me playstation exclusives?

Gamepass is 150€ a year for games that I can't choose, while I can get any physical games I want.

Yes, if you like to own games and build a library, PC is the best platform. I am just saying that 90% of people play a game to completion and then don't touch it for years or even forever.
I am not saying that my solution isn't without negatives, what I am arguing is that you can spend so little and get almost everything, thanks to the physical market.

There’s certainly an advantage to having physical games, and if that works for you then that’s great. When I was on console I used every trick in the book to score games for as little as possible.

You previously wanted to challenge games being cheaper on PC, so that’s all I was responding to.
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
See you in a few years.
Again, it seems many of you just assume that PC = ages badly. No, it isn't the case and we can see the architectures that will age badly form a mile away.

Kepler for instance did not support async compute but the PS4/X1 did. This then turned out to be a major feature in modern games, causing cards contemporary to the consoles that outperformed them such as the GTX 670 to lag behind. Additionally, cards with low amounts of VRAM were also predicted to age badly. They didn't just fall behind because they're PC parts and the consoles are console parts.

Now, you got similar things. The 1080 Ti is close to the PS5 in rasterization but lacks key features such as mesh shader support and RT support. It's effectively unplayable in games that depend on this feature such as Alan Wake 2. The 2070S/3070 already started exhibiting problems due to their low amount of VRAM. The 6700 XT, however, has 12GB of VRAM, mesh shader support, hardware-acceleration support for ray tracing and almost everything the PS5 GPU (since it's RDNA2) has so it won't age badly. It'll be fine in a few years as well. Will it always outperform the PS5? Probably not and in 2030, there might not be drivers support for it but by and large, it should hang in the PS5 for as long as the latter is on the market.

Refer to my example of the 970 that came out in September 2014. It's just a year younger than the PS4 but still plays everything fine and will outperform the PS4 by a wide margin almost every time. Maxwell has async compute and 4GB of VRAM is close to the total amount the PS4 uses for games (although it got that weird split memory config).
 
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Mr.Phoenix

Member
This video would be a thousand times better if not for the clickbait title.

just didnt have to do that.

All he had to say was what you can get for PS5 money.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
I don’t care how 4K HDR your TV is. I wouldn’t want to have to decide between 30fps ghetto mode or Vaseline mode.

Let's buy several grand OLED TVs and sometimes even change them every 2 years or so to get best features and brightness, HDR and HDMI 2,1, VRR, etc. Huge debate about TV picture qualities and then they have consoles connected to it that are basically PIXEL SOUP. But it's okay, they can't wait for Pro console to spend extra cash again. Oh let's add PSVR 2 that is now a paper weight as well.

Sacha Baron Cohen Thumbs Up GIF by Amazon Prime Video


Talk about $750 ~ $1K PC

Big Cats GIF by NETFLIX


Logic goes out the window.
 
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Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
This video would be a thousand times better if not for the clickbait title.

just didnt have to do that.

All he had to say was what you can get for PS5 money.
Because it's bullshit and Linus knows it. He just wanted clicks and he got them.

Besides, his PC build is a piece of crap. The answer is no; you still can't get a rig that matches the PS5 for $500. More like $700-800 which is better than in 2020 when it was over $1000.
 

Zathalus

Member
Add a BD drive, Dual Sense controller (since we're matching PS5) and Windows.
That's got nothing to do with the point I was making. Its not about beating or matching the PS5 price wise, it's simply stating that entry level PC gaming at roughly the console level is not as expensive as some make it out to be. Nobody getting into PC gaming is going to worry about a BR drive of all things. I didn't include Windows because you can buy a key for under 2$.
 

Fredrik

Member
Dont forget the mistakes youll make as a newcomer, I got three CPU, two motherboards, three coolers and three cases before I settled on my build.
I’ve never had to replace anything from mistakes. But I’ve done upgrades. Many. 5 graphics cards since 2014. I’m bad at lowering settings…
 

yamaci17

Member
pointless video and intel arc gpus can still be considered half baked products, i would never suggest them to anyone whatever performance metrics they bring to the table. there are maybe thousands of old games that may or may not be properly compatible with Intel GPU products and they manually patch games all the time. there are too many specific things that can cause weird performance issues. (which is probably has those random launch crashes in ratchet rift apart. i never had such crashes on my nvidia system and neither my friends did from what I recall because I literally know no one that actually uses Intel arc GPU)


just randomly, intel arc gpus used to get much lower fps compared to its counterparts with MSAA enabled in GTA. they have a lot of catch up to do and I would at least wait a couple more generations of cards before even considering getting one

video is horrible: settings are not matched, proper tools to assess ps5 performance is not used, weird statements are being made, upscalers are not being matched, bugged native in game upscalers are being used (last of us's own scaler is bugged and causes dwm to scale the game whereas fsr/dlss does not have this issue). I stopped following linus tech tips all together after they did a blind test about ray tracing in... shadow of tomb raider which has the least impactful ray tracing implementations (ray traced shadows in a game that already has great baked shadows) you can find in a video game. but this is on another level.

there's no need to gimp pc here and there to maintain that specific budget anyways. you're not buying an expensive car or house here. just up the budget to 800-1000 bucks and you will have insane improvements to the every aspect of the build. b450 board in 2024 with PCIe 3 is a no go.
 
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Fabieter

Member
Again, it seems many of you just assume that PC = ages badly. No, it isn't the case and we can see the architectures that will age badly form a mile away.

Kepler for instance did not support async compute but the PS4/X1 did. This then turned out to be a major feature in modern games, causing cards contemporary to the consoles that outperformed them such as the GTX 670 to lag behind. Additionally, cards with low amounts of VRAM were also predicted to age badly. They didn't just fall behind because they're PC parts and the consoles are console parts.

Now, you got similar things. The 1080 Ti is close to the PS5 in rasterization but lacks key features such as mesh shader support and RT support. It's effectively unplayable in games that depend on this feature such as Alan Wake 2. The 2070S/3070 already started exhibiting problems due to their low amount of VRAM. The 6700 XT, however, has 12GB of VRAM, mesh shader support, hardware-acceleration support for ray tracing and almost everything the PS5 GPU (since it's RDNA2) has so it won't age badly. It'll be fine in a few years as well. Will it always outperform the PS5? Probably not and in 2030, there might not be drivers support for it but by and large, it should hang in the PS5 for as long as the latter is on the market.

Refer to my example of the 970 that came out in September 2014. It's just a year younger than the PS4 but still plays everything fine and will outperform the PS4 by a wide margin almost every time. Maxwell has async compute and 4GB of VRAM is close to the total amount the PS4 uses for games (although it got that weird split memory config).

No excuses this time. If, by 2028, the performance of the 6700XT remains consistent, it would suggest that coding to the metal was a myth. If it's slower, it implies decades of downplaying this benefit. Let's see how it goes :).
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Must have missed my consoles having updates as big and long as Windows regularly does. Also you call me a dipshit but apparently missed that there are other ways to get a virus or other malware on PC other than through Steam? It's something that can happen on WINDOWS and cannot happen on CONSOLE?
First off, I didn't actually mean anything when I called you a dipshit.
Watch this video real quick and you'll get it


second off pc updates are not all that bro. Windows updates are like 15 minutes at most, and most of them happen when you're not even using the computer. I dont encounter updates from my PC as often.

You will never get a virus. If you are using your PC purely for steam, gog and epic, purely for gaming, you are never going to get in contact with a virus. It'd be when you start pirating and visiting shady websites that becomes a potential issue.
 

Sethbacca

Member
So my question is what is the excuse now for console gamers?
We want to play AAA games day and date of release, not years later. I'm not paying premium PC pricing to play years old games or emulate games that I played when they first came out decades ago, though those are admittedly convenient and occasionally fun when the mood strikes. Many of us are old, spend all day working at a computer and don't want to spend more hours there, nor do we want to do things like fuck with settings to get it dialed in for our television after a day of banging our brains off our monitors doing work.

I say this as someone who has been a multi console + PC gamer since the 90s.
 

yamaci17

Member
No excuses this time. If, by 2028, the performance of the 6700XT remains consistent, it would suggest that coding to the metal was a myth. If it's slower, it implies decades of downplaying this benefit. Let's see how it goes :).
I hope you are aware that directx 12, at least from a GPU perspective, is practically coding to the metal as much as possible on PC

it has been 4 years, and only major outlier between my 3070 and PS5 has been last of us part 1. all other games run as fast as one should expect from this GPU. however one important note is that you often have to reduce texture quality below PS5 levels in certain games if you don't want to either

1) experience bad %1 lows
2) get half the performance of your gpu in vram limitations (spiderman and ratchet)
3) get worse texture quality because streamer cannot fit in high quality textures all at the same time

there's another case where some games will simply automatically reduce texture quality in distance, which you cannot control as a 8 GB user. Then it depends on how much it impacts your experience. In Unreal Engine games, texture streaming is quite refined and can be transparent to the end user if done right. avatar is another example where texture streamer works very efficiently. game practically has no VRAM issues with any modern GPU, and also does not seem to be producing N64-like low quality textures. so it must be doing something right.

which is why 6700xt should be a decent GPU to focus on in the future. rx 6700 however is not because 10 gb gpu means you only get 9 GB usable DXGI budget which is still below 10 GB GPU memory ps5 and series x often gets in games. (and with 8 gb gpus, you often get 7 gb of usable dxgi memory budget)



in this example, 3070 gets its performance reduced by half if you use very high textures (and game still appears to fully utilize the GPU). very high textures are PS5 equivalent textures so if you want to use them, 3070's relative performance to the PS5 will be affected as a result. in other terms, it is not possible to have same quality textures and keep the performance relativity in this specific title. mind you, texture quality shouldn't matter for performance. but in their specific implementation, it does. outside from texture quality, raster load of the game is same as PS5 (i matched settings according to df)

this happens on 8 gb gpus and nixxes ports because of a specific implementation of their own:


"Nixxes' solution was to create its own non-unified memory management system, which ranked and tracked a hierarchy of calls' importance in the code, then measured them by "distance to 512 MB" in order to prioritize which large chunks of memory would make the most sense in a shift from VRAM to system RAM. So if you've ever decided to push your Spider-Man gameplay on a GPU that wasn't quite up to the task, you can thank Nixxes for implementing an invisible reduced-stutter option."


Practically 8-10 gb gpus like 3070, 3080 and 6700 will have certain performance problems or they will have to make compromises to texture quality (which potentially leads to worse visuals than PS5, admittedly) However it shouldn't be as severe as 2 GB GPUs have experienced. With 2 GB GPUs, you wouldn't be able to escape performance problems, and you would still get low res textures because the VRAM ratio between the console and 2 GB was insanely big.

PS4 often had 3.5-4 GB GPU memory for games (1-1.5 GB CPU memory). in this case, it is better to think in ratios intead of raw numbers

2 GB GPU memory to 4 GB console memory budget = 2x difference
7 GB GPU memory to 10 GB console memory budget = 1.4x difference
9 GB GPU memory to 10 GB console memory budget = 1.11x difference

technically games should scale better and severe performance problems gtx 770 and alike experience should not happen at the same intensity on 8 GB cards. but none of this matters and no one should recommend anyone a 8 GB GPU. however not every game is guaranteed to use 10 GB GPU memory on console. it depends on how much CPU bound data the game uses. some games may use more, some less.

this is all why i dont take any 8GB GPU to PS5 comparisons serious. both from a PS5 perspective and GPU perspective. From a PS5 perspective, even if the 8 GB GPU outperforms the PS5, there's a possibility 8 GB GPU may have loaded lower quality textures here and there, so that would potentially be unfair to PS5. Since this is not something reviewers or players can control it is best to stick with

- RTX 3060 12 GB
- RX 6700XT


and nothing in between (no 3070, no 4060, no 6600xt).

those weird outliers that happens with 4060 and 3070 and 6600xt? they also happen BETWEEN the same family of GPUs. there are now instances where 3060 outperforms 4060 by a large margin DUE TO VRAM:



this is why one should not jump to conclusions about such outliers that happen 8 GB GPUs and consoles. it is not because of console magic, it is because of VRAM being trashed (sadly)

I mean even 12 GB GPUs are not impervious to these kind of issues if you go overboard wtih ray tracing settings and overload the VRAM. GPU just gets lowered performance

RLLRlu1.png


this is why I hate NVIDIA's insistence on 8 GB GPUs. 4060 will be put into similar situations over and over again in future and people will keep saying how it aged horrible compared to PS5, while 12 GB 3060 still gets the same relative performance it has compared to PS5 even in 2028, most likely.
 
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Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
No excuses this time. If, by 2028, the performance of the 6700XT remains consistent, it would suggest that coding to the metal was a myth. If it's slower, it implies decades of downplaying this benefit. Let's see how it goes :).
It should remain relatively stable. PS5 might gain some ground on it, it might not, but it won't start outperforming by over 30% even in 2028, except for Sony exclusives.

Also, no, it's not a myth but between a lot of evolution in APIs and DX12 being a rather low-level API, consoles don't have the crazy advantages they did 20 years ago.
 
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Zathalus

Member
No excuses this time. If, by 2028, the performance of the 6700XT remains consistent, it would suggest that coding to the metal was a myth. If it's slower, it implies decades of downplaying this benefit. Let's see how it goes :).
Coding to the metal is absolutely not a myth, thing is DX12 and Vulkan are way closer to the metal compared to any PC API that came before them, so the advantages are no longer as pronounced as they once were.
 


It seems that the console business is changing, PS5 has not dropped in price since launch in 2020, while the PC market has returned to normalized pricing after the crypto crash.

Right now is much more profitable a PC to play, not only you can get one for the price of practically a console, but you have free online, much cheaper games, mods, community patches, free games without subscriptions (epic games), access to all xbox day 1 exclusives, access to almost all playstation exclusives, the entire PC catalog, gamepass, emulation, freedom to use any type of controller, multiple screens or ultrawide....

So my question is what is the excuse now for console gamers?

What Crypto crash?

Bitcoin price the last year.
 

Elysium44

Banned
You will never get a virus. If you are using your PC purely for steam, gog and epic, purely for gaming, you are never going to get in contact with a virus. It'd be when you start pirating and visiting shady websites that becomes a potential issue.

I got some serious malware a few years ago despite good security practices. Windows is not terribly secure by default. I use my PC for multiple things, not just gaming, probably like most people with a PC. (I anticipate a victim blaming reply, please don't bother.)

Just accept it: Windows CAN get infected, consoles CANNOT. That's all you have to do, just acknowledge it. It's one less potential headache with a console.
 
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Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I got some serious malware a few years ago despite good security practices. Windows is not terribly secure by default. I use my PC for multiple things, not just gaming, probably like most people with a PC. (I anticipate a victim blaming reply, please don't bother.)

Just accept it: Windows CAN get infected, consoles CANNOT. That's all you have to do, just acknowledge it. It's one less potential headache with a console.
Sounds like a skill issue.
 

SoloCamo

Member
those weird outliers that happens with 4060 and 3070 and 6600xt? they also happen BETWEEN the same family of GPUs. there are now instances where 3060 outperforms 4060 by a large margin DUE TO VRAM:
Can't stress this enough. It's a lesson I learned in the very early 2000's when I bought a 128mb version of the Geforce 4 ti4200 and my friends bought the 64mb version. Low and behold their cards had to be replaced far sooner or they dealt with complete mud for textures and graphics. To this day people downplay the importance of having overhead for vram. Anyone buying an 8gb card at this point in time is really shooting themselves in the foot. I mean, we've had 8gb cards since the 390X in 2015 - and technically a 8gb 290X was available too in 2014. I absolutely refuse to lower texture quality as it's the one thing that really makes or breaks visuals for me especially when playing at 4k.
 
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SmokedMeat

Gamer™
No excuses this time. If, by 2028, the performance of the 6700XT remains consistent, it would suggest that coding to the metal was a myth. If it's slower, it implies decades of downplaying this benefit. Let's see how it goes :).

Who’s keeping a 6700XT until 2028? One of PC’s advantages is upgrading as you see fit, not being stuck on a static piece of hardware.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
I got some serious malware a few years ago despite good security practices. Windows is not terribly secure by default. I use my PC for multiple things, not just gaming, probably like most people with a PC. (I anticipate a victim blaming reply, please don't bother.)

Just accept it: Windows CAN get infected, consoles CANNOT. That's all you have to do, just acknowledge it. It's one less potential headache with a console.

Consoles can’t get infected because they can’t do anything. They’re game boxes with shoddy web browsing tacked on.
 

Topher

Gold Member
I got some serious malware a few years ago despite good security practices. Windows is not terribly secure by default. I use my PC for multiple things, not just gaming, probably like most people with a PC. (I anticipate a victim blaming reply, please don't bother.)

Just accept it: Windows CAN get infected, consoles CANNOT. That's all you have to do, just acknowledge it. It's one less potential headache with a console.

Can? Yes. Is it common? For most, no. If someone gets a virus on their PC in this day and age then it is because they did something they should not have done. This doesn't happen randomly. It is a result of a specific action.
 
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64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
I got some serious malware a few years ago despite good security practices. Windows is not terribly secure by default. I use my PC for multiple things, not just gaming, probably like most people with a PC. (I anticipate a victim blaming reply, please don't bother.)

Just accept it: Windows CAN get infected, consoles CANNOT. That's all you have to do, just acknowledge it. It's one less potential headache with a console.
I know pcs can get viruses.
And I also know pcs can be used for more than gaming, that's actuslly the main reason I prefer them over console.

Howeverer we were evaluating purely gaming here. It's assumed that someone playing games on steam or other launchers will never come in contact with a virus. Now somebody pirating Adobe animate may not be so lucky but also nobody was talking about Adobe animate.

If someone uses their PC purely for gaming with virtually nothing but steam, epic and chrome installed, they wont get a virus.The Entire conversation was predicated on a GAMING competition between PC and console.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Is gamepass giving me any new triple a game on day one? Is it giving me playstation exclusives?

Gamepass is 150€ a year for games that I can't choose, while I can get any physical games I want.

Yes, if you like to own games and build a library, PC is the best platform. I am just saying that 90% of people play a game to completion and then don't touch it for years or even forever.
I am not saying that my solution isn't without negatives, what I am arguing is that you can spend so little and get almost everything, thanks to the physical market.
People better enjoy Gamepass while it lasts. AT 34M subscribers, big daddy Nutella (his nick name) aint gonna keep giving baby Phil a blank check.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
You won't find that just like you won't find a console, at any price, running games as well as high end PCs.
Yeah it's almost like we should give up this dumb ass argument and just admit pcs inherently have a higher upfront price to obtain similar console performance, & will never match the price to performance of a console.

Theres no shame in spending 1k for a nice pc to get the best gaming experience. They have the upfront cost, we have the lifetime value, you can't win both, go home bros
 
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