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[daxy]

Edit: reconsidered this post in retrospect :I

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Your entire sentiment seems based in a vaccum.

I understand that no matter what PoC say white people will find it problematic.
I just plain don't buy the thought that white people will be more receptive if we change our tone/argument/protest.
I have yet to find ONE single way of protesting that doesn't rub white people the wrong way.
Have you?

Do you even know anyone that's white? What the hell is this? Heather Heyer was white and died protesting against Nazis and for equality. I'm sure if you protested it would totally have rubbed her the wrong way.

Spoiler

It would probably have rubbed her the wrong way if you called her a racist.

 

[BlackBanditSho]

I just want to slow clap that follow-up.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Yes, ethical Swedes probably enjoy privileges some other people may not. And as I said, we should all do what we can to make that change. But the fact that I was born white does NOT automatically make me racist when I didn't cause those inequalities. I don't believe in inherited sin. I can't accept that, just as I can't accept the collective blame some people want to put on all men because some abuse and rape women. I would never do that shit, so fuck you if you lump me in with those people.

My family is still paying for the shit our ancestors did during the Portuguese Slave Trade, we had a direct hand in it. My grandfather gave his entire family inheritance to the rebels and communities of Mozambique during the Portuguese Colonial War. Even to this day my family continues to invest some of our incomes in black communities and doing our part to help them. We inherited this sin, and we will continue to pay for it for generations.

We, as white people, continue to benefit more in Western Society from institutions that were built on white supremacy at the expense of black slavery. We benefit from inherently racist systems; we are born into it, we are raised in it, molded by it, and that in and of itself makes us racist not by will but by pure force and association. But by fighting against it, by actively pushing to pass the benefits of our white privilege to our black brothers and sisters, by pushing true equality, we are rejecting this racist institution.

So are we inherently racist by default? Yes, but we don't need to continue being so. By acknowledging our inherited sin and pushing against these systems, we strive to better ourselves in making things equal, making us not racist. However by ignoring it, and letting the status quo continue, we continue to let them suffer.

Not related to your comment, but this also goes back to why saying "fuck the white moderate" is not racist. When the white moderate stands for the status quo that still brings the suffering of POC, they are still taking part and benefiting from that suffering, making them racist by default even when they don't have a racist thought in their head. This is because of, again, the institutions that we built are inherently racist.

 

[Cagey]

I wonder why people seem to want to make negative generalizations about white people. That's the thing that throws me. It obviously doesn't help to make your point, and only people who are also comfortable with these sorts of generalizations are going to agree - and what value is it to impress people who already agree with you?

Because it's edgy and viewed as progressive by likeminded people, all at once. Not much more to it.

 

[ClosingADoor]

My family is still paying for the shit our ancestors did during the Portuguese Slave Trade, we had a direct hand in it. My grandfather gave his entire family inheritance to the rebels and communities of Mozambique during the Portuguese Colonial War. Even to this day my family continues to invest some of our incomes in black communities and doing our part to help them. We inherited this sin, and we will continue to pay for it for generations.

We, as white people, continue to benefit more in Western Society from institutions that were built on white supremacy at the expense of black slavery. We benefit from inherently racist systems; we are born into it, we are raised in it, molded by it, and that in and of itself makes us racist not by will but by pure force and association. But by fighting against it, by actively pushing to pass the benefits of our white privilege to our black brothers and sisters, by pushing true equality, we are rejecting this racist institution.

So are we inherently racist by default? Yes, but we don't need to continue being so. By acknowledging our inherited sin and pushing against these systems, we strive to better ourselves in making things equal, making us not racist. However by ignoring it, and letting the status quo continue, we continue to let them suffer.

Not related to your comment, but this also goes back to why saying "fuck the white moderate" is not racist. When the white moderate stands for the status quo that still brings the suffering of POC, they are still taking part and benefiting from that suffering, making them racist by default even when they don't have a racist thought in their head. This is because of, again, the institutions that we built are inherently racist.

While what your family does is great, that is a personal choice you make, and are apparently in the position to make. What do you expect a Greek, Italian, Swede, etc, on minimum wage do? As long as you are not racist yourself, that is fine. If you want to actively do more, great, but don't say those people that don't or can't are somehow racist themselves. Pushing the sin of the father on a personal level throughout history makes everyone complicit in terrible things. It is useless. That is not even getting into that most people don't know what their ancestors were up to or where they lived anyway, so you are inheriting an assumed sin.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

My family is still paying for the shit our ancestors did during the Portuguese Slave Trade, we had a direct hand in it. My grandfather gave his entire family inheritance to the rebels and communities of Mozambique during the Portuguese Colonial War. Even to this day my family continues to invest some of our incomes in black communities and doing our part to help them. We inherited this sin, and we will continue to pay for it for generations.

We, as white people, continue to benefit more in Western Society from institutions that were built on white supremacy at the expense of black slavery. We benefit from inherently racist systems; we are born into it, we are raised in it, molded by it, and that in and of itself makes us racist not by will but by pure force and association. But by fighting against it, by actively pushing to pass the benefits of our white privilege to our black brothers and sisters, by pushing true equality, we are rejecting this racist institution.

So are we inherently racist by default? Yes, but we don't need to continue being so. By acknowledging our inherited sin and pushing against these systems, we strive to better ourselves in making things equal, making us not racist. However by ignoring it, and letting the status quo continue, we continue to let them suffer.

Not related to your comment, but this also goes back to why saying "fuck the white moderate" is not racist. When the white moderate stands for the status quo that still brings the suffering of POC, they are still taking part and benefiting from that suffering, making them racist by default even when they don't have a racist thought in their head. This is because of, again, the institutions that we built are inherently racist.

Great for your family to have done that and ridiculous for you to set that standard for everyone else. Yes, I respect people for paying it forward any way they can but I don't find anyone inherently racist for not donating or participating in ways other more active people may be used to. I do, however, expect people not to actively participate in racism - no, I do not consider being born white an act of racism. What I do consider racism is actively being bigoted and prejudice, failing to recognize white privilege and actively going out of your way to hurt a minority.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

While what your family does is great, that is a personal choice you make, and are apparently in the position to make. What do you expect a Greek, Italian, Swede, etc, on minimum wage do? As long as you are not racist yourself, that is fine. If you want to actively do more, great, but don't say those people that don't or can't are somehow racist themselves.

I'm not in a position to make that choice, I'm beyond poor and can barely afford to eat sometimes. I still do it regardless. The rest of my family though, yeah, that's their position to make. I mostly do work in the volunteering and activism front.

The point I'm making is that pushing for equality, no matter how small, makes you not racist. But by doing nothing and keeping the status quo, you continue to maintain systems that actively harm people of color. And there are many ways to fight for equality; how you vote, how you interact with people, volunteer, small donations, small things like that has benefits to fight against those systems.

Great for your family to have done that and ridiculous for you to set that standard for everyone else.

That not my standard, that's just what my family does. My standard is to at least vote if you can as I've been saying since 2015.

Yes, I respect people for paying it forward any way they can but I don't find anyone inherently racist for not donating or participating in ways other more active people may be used to. I do, however, expect people not to actively participate in racism - no, I do not consider being born white an act of racism. What I do consider racism is actively being bigoted and prejudice, failing to recognize white privilege and actively going out of your way to hurt a minority.

Continuing on to what you added. I don't believe being born white is an act of racism. I'm try to say that we are forced into benefiting from a racist institution because we're white, forcing us to be associated with said racist institution, and I believe that theoretically makes us racists but not in the traditional way we think about it. I believe this type of racism doesn't inherently make you a bad person, just naive, it's what happens after when you realize its existence that decides that. When we acknowledging our white privilege, when we realize the realities of this privilege, it does effect how we interact with people in our lives and how we view things around us, which in the end can be positive or negative depending on what someone does with it.

Going back to my standard, my standard to fighting back against systemic oppression is to at least vote to push forth equality because when you realize your white privilege, you will realize that the status quo of our institutions is inherently racist, and does harm and negatively effect people of color, and people, typically if they have empathy (there's plenty of shit heads that know they have privileges and vote to benefit from it more), would vote for policies that helps push us forward. Hell, just talking to people about current policies and how they negatively effect others in itself helps. But, for me, to shrug off the realities of what is happening in the background knowing fully well what they are is still doing harm, even when it's not intentional. It doesn't make one bad person, but it does need to be acknowledged. This is why my minimal standard is to vote if they can and talk to people, it is the easiest action one can take to help push forth equality and weaken the racist institutions that we are forced to benefit from.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

How you can help to not be racist:

Don't vote for racist politicians
Don't support racist policies

 

[Wamb0wneD]

How you can help to not be racist:

Don't vote for racist politicians
Don't support racist policies

3. Don't say racist shit. (Yes, also against white people.)

 

[deli2000]

Because it's edgy and viewed as progressive by likeminded people, all at once. Not much more to it.

Or maybe it's black people taking their frustrations and venting out at the wrong targets? But I'm sure the smug condescension going around in this thread is going to change their minds.

We have thread after thread telling us that we just have to empathise with why trump voters & brexiteers voted the way they did, but that empathy sure does go out the window when black people speak up.

 

[Cagey]

Or maybe it's black people taking their frustrations and venting out at the wrong targets? But I'm sure the smug condescension going around in this thread is going to change their minds.

We have thread after thread telling us that we just have to empathise with why trump voters & brexiteers voted the way they did, but that empathy sure does go out the window when black people speak up.

I give the posters here, who are certainly not all black, more credit than you: credit enough that they know what they're doing.

 

[Moze]

It is

Every white person gains from racism of society, but not every white person is racist.

I don't agree. I am not here to deny white privilege exists in the UK. It does exist in the UK, but it is not the same as the US. It just isn't. Poor white people are treated far worse in the UK than the US. Traveller and Eastern Europeans are treated like dirt too. Travellers in particular are by far the worst performing group of any group in the UK.

There is a cultural issue with poor white people or 'chavs' in the UK. They are paraded on TV and in the tabloids, called scum and useless constantly. There are generations of unemployed white people living on the estate because nobody wants to employ them.

Studies suggest that poor whites actually have a harder start to life than poor groups of other races:

If you're white, male and poor enough to qualify for a free meal at school then you face the toughest challenge when starting out in life.
That's what the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) has said in "the most comprehensive review ever carried out on progress towards greater equality in Britain"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...et-a-worse-start-in-life-says-equality-report

White privilege exists, but poor whites in the UK have it worse in a lot of areas that aren't often discussed.

 

[Nere]

Or maybe it's black people taking their frustrations and venting out at the wrong targets? But I'm sure the smug condescension going around in this thread is going to change their minds.

We have thread after thread telling us that we just have to empathise with why trump voters & brexiteers voted the way they did, but that sure does go out the window when black people speak up.

Because calling ALL white people racist, without exceptions is surely going to make them listen to you. It's a two way street.

 

[deli2000]

I give the posters here, who are certainly not all black, more credit than you: credit enough that they know what they're doing.

I'm not talking about posters in this thread, I'm talking about the OP.

 

[Platy]

People asked how sweeden had anything to do with slaves in america
People asked when Greeks enslaved black people

These questions were answered but they are meaningless.

What matters is that MODERN SOCIETY is based on systematic racism.
Even if your country never hurt a black people EVER it still eats the same holywood movies, the same macdonalds. It has the same capitalistic culture that was based on england/portugal/spain slave culture in the time of america colonization by europeans.

Please tell me how Estonians benefitted from colonialism and slavery.

https://humanrights.ee/en/2017/07/r...imineerimine-ja-migratsioon-eestis-2015-2016/

 

[Alligatorjandro]

3. Don't say racist shit. (Yes, also against white people.)

The real problem

 

[deli2000]

Because calling ALL white people racist, without exceptions is surely going to make them listen to you. It's a two way street.

Firstly, that statement really rides on the fact that we're listened in a meaningful way anyway, Which is highly debatable.

Secondly, I don't know how you found a defence of what she saying in that post. All i'm saying is if you want to stand on your soapbox demanding empathy from disaffected people, then you should reciprocate it to those people instead of just tutting and looking down on them. Of course what she said was not an accurate portrayal of things, but expecting people dealing with abuse and discrimination to remain vigilant 100% of the time is unfair.

 

[RoadHazard]

People asked how sweeden had anything to do with slaves in america
People asked when Greeks enslaved black people

These questions were answered but they are meaningless.

What matters is that MODERN SOCIETY is based on systematic racism.
Even if your country never hurt a black people EVER it still eats the same holywood movies, the same macdonalds. It has the same capitalistic culture that was based on england/portugal/spain slave culture in the time of america colonization by europeans.




https://humanrights.ee/en/2017/07/r...imineerimine-ja-migratsioon-eestis-2015-2016/

Well alright, if watching Hollywood movies and eating at McDonald's makes you racist now, then I guess I am one. Thanks for letting me know!

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Or maybe it's black people taking their frustrations and venting out at the wrong targets? But I'm sure the smug condescension going around in this thread is going to change their minds.

We have thread after thread telling us that we just have to empathise with why trump voters & brexiteers voted the way they did, but that empathy sure does go out the window when black people speak up.

Please show me all these threads . They don't exist. Not on this forum, for good reason. There is nothing to emphathise with. You have your rare troll or genuine Trump voter who is in account suicide mode but that's it.

The real problem

It's definetly not as important as the two you mentioned, but It is a problem. This thread is about that problem, not all the other shit that went down so far.

 

[Beefy]

I don't agree. I am not here to deny white privilege exists in the UK. It does exist in the UK, but it is not the same as the US. It just isn't. Poor white people are treated far worse in the UK than the US. Traveller and Eastern Europeans are treated like dirt too. Travellers in particular are by far the worst performing group of any group in the UK.

There is a cultural issue with poor white people or 'chavs' in the UK. They are paraded on TV and in the tabloids, called scum and useless constantly. There are generations of unemployed white people living on the estate because nobody wants to employ them.

Studies suggest that poor whites actually have a harder start to life than poor groups of other races:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...et-a-worse-start-in-life-says-equality-report

White privilege exists, but poor whites in the UK have it worse in a lot of areas that aren't often discussed.

Nope.

Racial inequality in Britain is "entrenched and far-reaching," according to a report published by the Equality and Human Rights Commission, which says that the life chances of young ethnic minority people in the UK have become much worse over the past five years.

Unemployed:

White people: 74.7%
Minority: 59.3%

People from ethnic minorities have disproportionately high unemployment rates compared to white people.

Research on ethnicity and employment trends in 2013 found white people had a higher employment rate than those from ethnic minorities.
------------------------------------------
More likely to live in poverty

White: 17.2%
Ethnic Minority: 35.7%
Black: 39.9%
Pakistani/Bangladesh 43.9%


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...sons-graphs-statistics-revealed-a7197066.html

Minorities still have it far worse then white people in the UK.

 

[Yeoman]

Eating McDonalds is racist. This shit is bananas!
Some of you people typing on your MacBooks and iPhones need to experience life as a Syrian refugee, then come back and talk about oppression and discrimination.

 

[Nere]

Firstly, that statement really rides on the fact that we're listened in a meaningful way anyway, Which is highly debatable.

Secondly, I don't know how you found a defence of what she saying in that post. All i'm saying is if you want to stand on your soapbox demanding empathy from disaffected people, then you should reciprocate it to those people instead of just tutting and looking down on them. Of course what she said was not an accurate portrayal of things, but expecting people dealing with abuse and discrimination to remain vigilant 100% of the time is unfair.

Why do you say it is unfair to expect abused and discriminated people to remain vigilant 100% and it isn't unfair to call an entire race racist?

People asked how sweeden had anything to do with slaves in america
People asked when Greeks enslaved black people

These questions were answered but they are meaningless.

What matters is that MODERN SOCIETY is based on systematic racism.
Even if your country never hurt a black people EVER it still eats the same holywood movies, the same macdonalds. It has the same capitalistic culture that was based on england/portugal/spain slave culture in the time of america colonization by europeans.




https://humanrights.ee/en/2017/07/r...imineerimine-ja-migratsioon-eestis-2015-2016/

Eating Mcdonalds and watching movies make you a racist, you really learn many useful things in neogaf these days.

 

[KAOz]

Eating Mcdonalds and watching movies make you a racist, you really learn many useful things in neogaf these days.

Can confirm this is true. Had alot of friends of different nationalities and ethnicities, then I saw a movie and ate McDonalds.

Now I can't stop goosestepping.

 

[deli2000]

Please show me all these threads . They don't exist. Not on this forum, for good reason. There is nothing to emphathise with. You have your rare troll or genuine Trump voter who is in account suicide mode but that's it.


It's definetly not as important as the two you mentioned, but It is a problem. This thread is about that problem, not all the other shit that went down so far.

Just a few of the top of my head.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1357705&highlight=trump+voters

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1366558&highlight=trump+voters

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1324783&highlight=trump+supporters

Let me be clear, i'm personally fine with empathising with these people even with the decisions they made. But I think it should go both ways too, people should stop going out of their way to demonise and mock any black person that steps out of line. Like do you care about equality just as a concept? Or do you care about the people who are hurt?

Why do you say it is unfair to expect abused and discriminated people to remain vigilant 100% and it isn't unfair to call an entire race racist?



Eating Mcdonalds and watching movies make you a racist, you really learn many useful things in neogaf these days.

You seem to be wilfully misinterpreting shit that people say so you can get a gotcha on some of the 'bad' members of the forum.

Let's be clear, even though I shouldn't have to fucking defend myself for something I didn't say. I don't think calling all white people racist is OK. There. Clear enough for you? Am I conducting myself in a proper manner so I can join in the discourse?

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Just a few of the top of my head.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1357705&highlight=trump+voters

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1366558&highlight=trump+voters

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1324783&highlight=trump+supporters

Let me be clear, i'm personally fine with empathising with these people even with the decisions they made. But I think it should go both ways too, people should stop going out of their way to demonise and mock any black person that steps out of line. Like do you care about equality just as a concept? Or do you care about the people who are hurt?

The second link you posted is pretty damning, the other is Sanders talking about it , going all economic anxiety about it (eugh) and the third one was from 2016. Obviously even then voting for him was deplorable but at least he wasn't in full fascist mode then.

Interesting at the bolded, because I'm not fine with empathising with them. I'm from Germany, since I was 7 years old I learned about where it leads to if you are in any form OK with the fuckery Trump is going with, or OK with the people who are in favour of or just don't care about it.

I care about equality both in concept and the people who are hurt (which also means I care about myself, just to be clear here.) That's why I react so strongly to people who call me a racist because of my skin color.
Sadly there are quite a few in this thread who have no problem doing so. I realize you didn't and that im derailing my answer to you here so let's just leave it at that.

 

[Nere]

Just a few of the top of my head.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1357705&highlight=trump+voters

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1366558&highlight=trump+voters

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1324783&highlight=trump+supporters

Let me be clear, i'm personally fine with empathising with these people even with the decisions they made. But I think it should go both ways too, people should stop going out of their way to demonise and mock any black person that steps out of line. Like do you care about equality just as a concept? Or do you care about the people who are hurt?



You seem to be wilfully misinterpreting shit that people say so you can get a gotcha on some of the 'bad' members of the forum.

Let's be clear, even though I shouldn't have to fucking defend myself for something I didn't say. I don't think calling all white people racist is OK. There. Clear enough for you? Am I conducting myself in a proper manner so I can join in the discourse?

The problem I see again with the threads you link is blantant generalization of entire groups of people. You absolutely cannot generalize an entire group of people and insist on it, like the woman on the OP did. You cannot say all Trump voters are racists and deplorables, you cannot possibly know that. Were some of them ignorant? Yeah absolutely but I cannot accept a generalization like that for any group of people because you never know the underlining reasons behind each individual. You can say there are issues and yeah a big number of Trump voters, voted for him because of racist views but personally I will never accept a blantant generalization of any group. The world isn't black and white like many posters here imply, and since we as humans aren't black and white (don't mean skin colour obviously) and there are many underlying problems and reasons for each action, there can't be a black and white answer for anything, like all white people are racists or all Trump voters are racists. We shouldn't fall in the generalization trap and we should try to find the real reasons, that is why there are researches to attempt and find the truth, if you could just put an all in front of a group and be correct then the world would be a much easier, simpler and probably more boring place. At least that's my 2 cents about both this thread and those you linked.

 

[Moze]

Nope.

Racial inequality in Britain is "entrenched and far-reaching," according to a report published by the Equality and Human Rights Commission, which says that the life chances of young ethnic minority people in the UK have become much worse over the past five years.

Unemployed:

White people: 74.7%
Minority: 59.3%

People from ethnic minorities have disproportionately high unemployment rates compared to white people.

Research on ethnicity and employment trends in 2013 found white people had a higher employment rate than those from ethnic minorities.
------------------------------------------
More likely to live in poverty

White: 17.2%
Ethnic Minority: 35.7%
Black: 39.9%
Pakistani/Bangladesh 43.9%


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...sons-graphs-statistics-revealed-a7197066.html

Minorities still have it far worse then white people in the UK.

I don't disagree with this study. And I don't disagree that minorities have a harder time than white people in the UK. Your argument was that all white people benefit from white privilege. That is what I disagreed with and made it clear to differentiate between poor white people and the rest. It is extremely important to differentiate between different classes if these issues are going to be tackled directly.

 

[uncelestial]

Calling someone unattractive is transphobic?

Saying a trans woman doesn't "make for an attractive female" is absolutely transphobic.

 

[Enzom21]

The problem I see again with the threads you link is blantant generalization of entire groups of people. You absolutely cannot generalize an entire group of people and insist on it, like the woman on the OP did. You cannot say all Trump voters are racists and deplorables, you cannot possibly know that. Were some of them ignorant? Yeah absolutely but I cannot accept a generalization like that for any group of people because you never know the underlining reasons behind each individual. You can say there are issues and yeah a big number of Trump voters, voted for him because of racist views but personally I will never accept a blantant generalization of any group. The world isn't black and white like many posters here imply, and since we as humans aren't black and white (don't mean skin colour obviously) and there are many underlying problems and reasons for each action, there can't be a black and white answer for anything, like all white people are racists or all Trump voters are racists. We shouldn't fall in the generalization trap and we should try to find the real reasons, that is why there are researches to attempt and find the truth, if you could just put an all in front of a group and be correct then the world would be a much easier, simpler and probably more boring place. At least that's my 2 cents about both this thread and those you linked.

Sure you can. All Trump voters support racism. They knowingly voted for a racist so they definitely support racism.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

The problem I see again with the threads you link is blantant generalization of entire groups of people. You absolutely cannot generalize an entire group of people and insist on it, like the woman on the OP did. You cannot say all Trump voters are racists and deplorables, you cannot possibly know that. Were some of them ignorant? Yeah absolutely but I cannot accept a generalization like that for any group of people because you never know the underlining reasons behind each individual. You can say there are issues and yeah a big number of Trump voters, voted for him because of racist views but personally I will never accept a blantant generalization of any group. The world isn't black and white like many posters here imply, and since we as humans aren't black and white (don't mean skin colour obviously) and there are many underlying problems and reasons for each action, there can't be a black and white answer for anything, like all white people are racists or all Trump voters are racists. We shouldn't fall in the generalization trap and we should try to find the real reasons, that is why there are researches to attempt and find the truth, if you could just put an all in front of a group and be correct then the world would be a much easier, simpler and probably more boring place. At least that's my 2 cents about both this thread and those you linked.

I wake up to this and I don't know what to tell you.

If you genuinely feel this way and cannot see that the people throwing "deplorable Trump voter" are correct, then I don't know what to tell you. Just because there might be a Trump voter that champions civil rights (lol) that does not make it true for the vast majority of Trump voters.

Just like the #NotAllMen nonsense, you're parroting the #NotAllWhitePeople nonsense that silences PoC whenever they speak about issues concerning race.

 

[Beefy]

I don't disagree with this study. And I don't disagree that minorities have a harder time than white people in the UK. Your argument was that all white people benefit from white privilege. That is what I disagreed with and made it clear to differentiate between poor white people and the rest. It is extremely important to differentiate between different classes if these issues are going to be tackled directly.

White poor people are better off then black etc poor people due to white privilege. So yes all white people do benefit from being white, but in different degrees. They may both be poor, but a poor white person will be treated far fairer then a poor minority.

 

[Stead Fast]

I don't disagree with this study. And I don't disagree that minorities have a harder time than white people in the UK. Your argument was that all white people benefit from white privilege. That is what I disagreed with and made it clear to differentiate between poor white people and the rest. It is extremely important to differentiate between different classes if these issues are going to be tackled directly.

But those numbers show the benefit of white privilege in effect. Simply being white is an artificially crafted barrier to differentiate between poor white families and PoC. Privilege doesn't mean 'well-off' here, it means 'PoC and minorities will still be looked down upon.'

That's how fucked up it is.

 

[How About No]

As a white person, the white ppl who feel offended by hyperbolic (but not THAT hyperbolic) statements sourced from justified frustration like this need to get over themselves

Sure you can. All Trump voters support racism. They knowingly voted for a racist so they definitely support racism.

But but but it was just for the lolz man

 

[A Link to the Past]

Comments decrying the white moderate I do not think should be offensive. After all, Martin Luther King Jr. dragged the white moderates himself.

I mean you CAN make a shitty comment about white moderates, but in this current climate, being a white moderate implies a certain degree of acceptance to what is going on right now.

 

[Platy]

Yes, eating MacDonalds makes you say racial slurs is EXACTLY what I said.

Nothing to do about how it is the mascot of multiculturalism and how Western culture is basically all the same because of globalization and how such globalization means systematic oppressions are exported.

Nope, "Big Mac -> N word" is the right interpretation

 

[Chmpocalypse]

My family is still paying for the shit our ancestors did during the Portuguese Slave Trade, we had a direct hand in it. My grandfather gave his entire family inheritance to the rebels and communities of Mozambique during the Portuguese Colonial War. Even to this day my family continues to invest some of our incomes in black communities and doing our part to help them. We inherited this sin, and we will continue to pay for it for generations.

We, as white people, continue to benefit more in Western Society from institutions that were built on white supremacy at the expense of black slavery. We benefit from inherently racist systems; we are born into it, we are raised in it, molded by it, and that in and of itself makes us racist not by will but by pure force and association. But by fighting against it, by actively pushing to pass the benefits of our white privilege to our black brothers and sisters, by pushing true equality, we are rejecting this racist institution.

So are we inherently racist by default? Yes, but we don't need to continue being so. By acknowledging our inherited sin and pushing against these systems, we strive to better ourselves in making things equal, making us not racist. However by ignoring it, and letting the status quo continue, we continue to let them suffer.

Not related to your comment, but this also goes back to why saying "fuck the white moderate" is not racist. When the white moderate stands for the status quo that still brings the suffering of POC, they are still taking part and benefiting from that suffering, making them racist by default even when they don't have a racist thought in their head. This is because of, again, the institutions that we built are inherently racist.

Just wanted to say, great post, and your family truly lives its values. Good job!

 

[krazen]

Eating Mcdonalds and watching movies make you a racist, you really learn many useful things in neogaf these days.

You guys are being willfully obtuse. The idea is that since colonialism/slavery and later white supremacy is the bedrock of many

My parents were immigrants and I grew up in a rodent and roach invested one bedroom in the USA with 4 of us sleeping right next to each other, but even I can recognize that compared to the sweatshop conditions that provided the cheap clothes we could afford, the cold and real wars the US waged to keep oil and electricity artificially cheap, etc...I too was part of the problem.


Just because you aren't racist, sexist, etc...doesn't mean you arent help to prop it up even inadvertantly. Its why replies like yours are so frustrating...if its not moustache twirling villians with swaztika's we don't get it. When a Mcdonald's underpays their workers, many of them minorities, to bring you that cheap burger...

When Hollywood exec's push the fact that minority movies don't sell and throw the big bucks at th same vanilla white male actors, etc

 

[Sarek]

Well alright, if watching Hollywood movies and eating at McDonald's makes you racist now, then I guess I am one. Thanks for letting me know!

This argument is so pointless. What do people hope to gain by calling every white person racist by default, and how is doing that not also racist? Oh, wait according to some enlightened posters in this thread only white people can be racist.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

.

 

[MrMysterio]

White poor people are better off then black etc poor people due to white privilege. So yes all white people do benefit from being white, but in different degrees. They may both be poor, but a poor white person will be treated far fairer then a poor minority.

So much this. It's a reality white people have to come to terms with, and once you accept it you can help fight it - which is also a fight against poverty in general btw.

Her follow-up was amazing. Hope she'll land a gig elsewhere.

 

[Dr.Phibes]

People asked how sweeden had anything to do with slaves in america
People asked when Greeks enslaved black people

These questions were answered but they are meaningless.

What matters is that MODERN SOCIETY is based on systematic racism.
Even if your country never hurt a black people EVER it still eats the same holywood movies, the same macdonalds. It has the same capitalistic culture that was based on england/portugal/spain slave culture in the time of america colonization by europeans.




https://humanrights.ee/en/2017/07/r...imineerimine-ja-migratsioon-eestis-2015-2016/

1. Slowly read what I've written and
2. think about how it has absolutely nothing to do with that link you've posted

 

[MikeBreezy92]

This argument is so pointless. What do people hope to gain by calling every white person racist by default, and how is doing that not also racist? Oh, wait according to some enlightened posters in this thread only white people can be racist.

It's the same way you call out sexism and homophobia by making them confront it, is it the best way? Nope but seeing as no other way works as far as far as I can tell it's up in the air and it helps me point out the people who care more about themselves than the cause.

 

[shawnbuddy]

Honestly I think firing her was an overreaction. She's pointing out that white people have collectively benefitted from racial violence, which is absolutely true, and that many refuse to admit it, which is absolutely true.

But it does go to show that there's a lot of wisdom in that old adage, "delete your Facebook."

 

[A Link to the Past]

White privilege definitely exists in Asia. A white person in China or Japan is gonna be treated better than a black person, or even sometimes an Asian-American person.

kpaadet demonstrates how flawed a lot of perspectives on white privilege are. To them, white privilege means that being white gets you a million dollars and the perfect life.

 

[Dr.Phibes]

Btw, I've profitted directly of WW2 since my grandparents met in a refugee camp. Should I feel terrible for the rest of my life because 80 million people had to die so I could exist?

 

[spons]

Yeah, the US has a lot of problems that need to be fixed. Good on her for calling out and telling the truth.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Btw, I've profitted directly of WW2 since my grandparents met in a refugee camp. Should I feel terrible for the rest of my life because 80 million people had to die so I could exist?

What's your point?

 

[Dr.Phibes]

What's your point?

That I should feel guilty about it just like I have to admit that I'm a racist because I was born into a system that treats people differently based on their heritage.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I'm not in a position to make that choice, I'm beyond poor and can barely afford to eat sometimes. I still do it regardless. The rest of my family though, yeah, that's their position to make. I mostly do work in the volunteering and activism front.

The point I'm making is that pushing for equality, no matter how small, makes you not racist. But by doing nothing and keeping the status quo, you continue to maintain systems that actively harm people of color. And there are many ways to fight for equality; how you vote, how you interact with people, volunteer, small donations, small things like that has benefits to fight against those systems.

Continuing on to what you added. I don't believe being born white is an act of racism. I'm try to say that we are forced into benefiting from a racist institution because we're white, forcing us to be associated with said racist institution, and I believe that theoretically makes us racists but not in the traditional way we think about it. I believe this type of racism doesn't inherently make you a bad person, just naive, it's what happens after when you realize its existence that decides that. When we acknowledging our white privilege, when we realize the realities of this privilege, it does effect how we interact with people in our lives and how we view things around us, which in the end can be positive or negative depending on what someone does with it. [..]

What you are saying is that you can be racist by association. That is really reaching there. Just because someone lives somewhere, does not mean he is racist because of that. This person has zero influence over history. So yes, it is nice if people acknowledge if they have a privileged position in society and support causes that fix that, for example voting a certain way. But this stance that you can be seen as racist just for enjoying a live in Western Europe, the US, etc, is going a bit far.

Cool that you do volunteer work and activism, but it is not reasonable to suggest other people should do the same as you all the time. But if your line is: at least vote. Then I agree that is reasonable.

People asked how sweeden had anything to do with slaves in america
People asked when Greeks enslaved black people

These questions were answered but they are meaningless.

What matters is that MODERN SOCIETY is based on systematic racism.
Even if your country never hurt a black people EVER it still eats the same holywood movies, the same macdonalds. It has the same capitalistic culture that was based on england/portugal/spain slave culture in the time of america colonization by europeans.

The whole world has the same capitalistic culture, including South America, Africa and Asia. They are part of modern society. Are they then also racist because they are part of that system?