Kevin Feige interview, No Fantastic Four in MCU in the future

Constantin loses the movie rights if they don't make a movie every 10* years.
*The number is from a Vice article regarding Bernd Eichinger's original deal.
Needless to say, Fant4stic 2 is not happening, so either there's gonna be ANOTHER reboot in the next few years, or they are loosing the rights.
 
Ten years ago: Can you imagine if anyone cared about Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor?

(Seriously. They were D-listers compared to the X-Men and Spider-Man. There was a reason no one bought the movie rights from Marvel.)

Captain America and Iron Man were not D listers. A D list character is someone like Moon Knight, a character even people somewhat interested in comics could reasonably have never heard of. Captain America and Iron Man were solid B level characters.
 
Was discussing this in another forum, but does statutory reversion apply to corporate companies as well? Basically it's what will allow James Cameron to get control of Terminator again in 2019. Some people on that forum think it does apply to companies as well as people and some people think it only applies to people (i.e. authors or their heirs). I think it's the latter, which means statutory reversion doesn't apply to marvel and their horrible deals. If it's the former though, Marvel would be able to get the rights back to xmen and FF 35 years years after the signing of the contract after giving notice 25 years after the contract's signing.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Was discussing this in another forum, but does statutory reversion apply to corporate companies as well? Basically it's what will allow James Cameron to get control of Terminator again in 2019. Some people on that forum think it does apply to companies as well as people and some people think it only applies to people (i.e. authors or their heirs). I think it's the latter, which means statutory reversion doesn't apply to marvel and their horrible deals. If it's the former though, Marvel would be able to get the rights back to xmen and FF 35 years years after the signing of the contract after giving notice 25 years after the contract's signing.

no, Marvel sold the rights to avoid bankruptcy
 

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
Fox gave up the rights for permission to change teenage negasonic warhead

exactly

if ego was given up for altering negasonic warhead, imagine what was given up for X-Men TV rights


 
no, Marvel sold the rights to avoid bankruptcy

Cameron also sold the rights and he's getting it back (same way some musicians got their rights back after selling them). It's not a question of selling the rights or not, it's just a question if it applies to companies the same way it applies to people. I personally think it doesn't, but I'm not a lawyer.
 

Penguin

Member
exactly

if ego was given up for altering negasonic warhead, imagine what was given up for X-Men TV rights



Ok I'm gonna humor this for a second

If they did exchange TV rights for Fantastic Four, why not say something?

And not because they want it to be a surprise, they dropped the Spider-man news at like 11pm on a Monday night so clearly wanted it out ASAP.

The first X-Men TV series under the deal has already aired its first TV series, and the next few Marvel films have either filmed or are filming.
 

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
Ok I'm gonna humor this for a second

If they did exchange TV rights for Fantastic Four, why not say something?

And not because they want it to be a surprise, they dropped the Spider-man news at like 11pm on a Monday night so clearly wanted it out ASAP.

The first X-Men TV series under the deal has already aired its first TV series, and the next few Marvel films have either filmed or are filming.


for the Latveria tease during the post credits scene in Avengers Untitled
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Well if Fox doesn't make a new Fantastic 4 movie in the next 5 years Marvel gets it back. How likely is it that Fox is going to make another one?

Pretty unlikely I'd say.
 
Nothing. Fox always had TV rights. I believe they've had TV rights to those characters for longer than some posters here have been alive.

I think the sources of confusion here is the Mutant X TV series, which was actually a Marvel production (in conjunction with the Tribune Company), not a Fox one. And either last year or the year before, Fox did actually say that they had to clear some contract stuff with Marvel before they could move forward with Legion and The Gifted.

ah yes i remember all of this

so glad we are living in a post ike world

I've said it before, but there's already a pretty clear difference in casting in Marvel movies from Ike to post-Ike, and as we go forward I think that's only going to get more distinct.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Brolin is going to look like a dried up prun in Infinity Wars, I doubt Marvel cares that he's showing up in another superhero movies. I mean, this is the studio that hired the Human Torch as their Captain America.

[edit]

You also got Quicksilver doubling as Kick-Ass.
 
I think the sources of confusion here is the Mutant X TV series, which was actually a Marvel production (in conjunction with the Tribune Company), not a Fox one. And either last year or the year before, Fox did actually say that they had to clear some contract stuff with Marvel before they could move forward with Legion and The Gifted.

Yeah, I think that it was a situation where they had to speak to Marvel about what they were planning to do? Something like that. Basically, they have the rights, and they can make the shows, but there's something in the agreement that stipulates the two have to talk to some degree before Fox can just make a show.

Something like that.

(also, I honestly do take Feige & Fox execs at their word when they say even they aren't sure who owns what sometimes)
 

vinnygambini

Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
I wonder if FOX handed something to Marvel, there must have be some kind of agreement/trade to make Legion, Gifted and Deadpool animated series happen.

It's a co-production with Marvel TV - that's it. The contract between FOX & Marvel is a mess tbh filled with contradictions and whatnot, working together is the best alternative.
 
(also, I honestly do take Feige & Fox execs at their word when they say even they aren't sure who owns what sometimes)

I mean, that's what they pay the lawyers for. But it seems like they've generally settled it to something along the lines of Marvel can use races, but Fox owns the characters (i.e. Marvel can use the Skrulls, but Fox owns Super Skrull, or [GOTG2 Spoilers]
Marvel can use the Watchers, but Fox owns Uatu
). With the biggest can of worms having been the shared use of Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch since they were Avengers characters first and mutants second.
 

Erv

Member
It's not like they own the man. I'd imagine if they weren't okay with it, then they'd have protected for this eventuality in their contract.
I agree but I feel like it was maybe something he did without consulting them. Probably looked at his contract and made sure he can do it. I don't think it's wrong. I just wonder if feige just said it was ok to save face
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
You can't rely on that Infinity Gem forever

Agents of SHIELD is probably the most diverse thing in the entire MCU.

Never seen that show.

I was more talking about how much the MCU improved, not just in terms of diversity, but just the general quality once Feige took over.
 
Nothing. Fox always had TV rights. I believe they've had TV rights to those characters for longer than some posters here have been alive.

No they didn't. Not by themselves anyway.

The Agreement reserved all television rights to Marvel, subject to a proviso, critical to Fox's pending contract claim, that Marvel would not “produce, distribute or exploit or authorize the production, distribution or exploitation of any live-action motion picture” without Fox's consent (the “Freeze”).

Fox contended that the phrase “live-action motion picture for free television exhibition” in the Freeze provision applied to hour-long episodes of movies made for TV;  Marvel contended that the phrase precluded (without Fox's consent) only production of feature-length movies made for TV. The District Court deemed the phrase ambiguous, read in the context of the Freeze provision and the entire Agreement.   Concluding that resolving the ambiguity would require extrinsic evidence, the Court denied the motion to dismiss the contract claim.   Turning to the preliminary injunction request, the Court concluded that Fox had shown a probability of success on its claim that the “Mutant X” TV series breached the Freeze provision with respect to the title of the series, id. at 36, but not as to the characters or storylines of the series, id. at 40, 43.
 
I agree but I feel like it was maybe something he did without consulting them. Probably looked at his contract and made sure he can do it. I don't think it's wrong. I just wonder if feige just said it was ok to save face

I guess I just don't get why it would matter either way.

If Brolin can, and he wants to, he should.

Feige doesn't have to say shit to "save face" because Brolin taking another job at another studio isn't an insult in any way. He's an actor. That's what he does.


Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but that looks like they did have the rights. It also seems to at least back up the notion that the agreement necessitated the two companies talk to each other before either moved forward with their plans?

Which is, so far as I know, what they typically do anyway. I know that was one of the things people learned via the Sony hacks - that Feige & Marvel execs were being filled in on the Sony productions and were even giving notes/suggestions to those producers/execs
 
I agree but I feel like it was maybe something he did without consulting them. Probably looked at his contract and made sure he can do it. I don't think it's wrong. I just wonder if feige just said it was ok to save face

Nah. They've had enough actors move over from Fox to Marvel (like the last 2 Human Torches) that they have to be aware that it could happen in the other direction, and if they really wanted to stop it before it happened they would have written it into the contract in a pretty explicit manner.

Which is, so far as I know, what they typically do anyway. I know that was one of the things people learned via the Sony hacks - that Feige & Marvel execs were being filled in on the Sony productions and were even giving notes/suggestions to those producers/execs.

Feige's spot on notes on the problems with ASM2 was when I knew for sure that the universe was in good hands.
 
Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but that looks like they did have the rights. It also seems to at least back up the notion that the agreement necessitated the two companies talk to each other before either moved forward with their plans?

Yes, they did need to talk.

The "agreement reserves all television rights to Marvel, subject to a proviso from Fox". That means Marvel owned all TV rights, but Fox can put a restriction on it. Fox complaint that hour long made for TV was a breach of contract and while the court found the language ambiguous they sided with Fox.

Basically, Marvel owns all the television rights, but Fox has a say in it, which is I think how it was for Spiderman as well, based on the leaked emails.

That's how I read it anyways. Again, I'm not a lawyer, so I might be reading it wrong, but that first quote is pretty clear that Marvel has the TV rights, Fox never had it.
 
Feige's spot on notes on the problems with ASM2 was when I knew for sure that the universe was in good hands.

Yeah, that was an eye-opener.

Yes, they did need to talk.

The "agreement reserves all television rights to Marvel, subject to a proviso from Fox".

That's in reference to TV-movies, not TV series, isn't it? That was the distinction? The fight was that Marvel was trying to end run Fox by producing a series of TV movies and thus getting an X-Men tv series on the air without them being X-Men, and without it being a TV series. At which point Fox was like "what the fuck."

That was how I understood that particular fight. Fox had TV/Film rights to the X-Men, as per the deal Arad had struck with Fox back in 92. They were already making an animated television series, and were working on getting a movie made (which didn't come to fruition until 2000). Marvel still retained some rights, and tried to exercise those rights in a way that pissed off Fox, which caused the fight.
 
Yeah, that was an eye-opener.



That's in reference to TV-movies, not TV series, isn't it? That was the distinction? The fight was that Marvel was trying to end run Fox by producing a series of TV movies and thus getting an X-Men tv series on the air without them being X-Men, and without it being a TV series. At which point Fox was like "what the fuck."

That was how I understood that particular fight. Fox had TV/Film rights to the X-Men, as per the deal Arad had struck with Fox back in 92. They were already making an animated television series, and were working on getting a movie made (which didn't come to fruition until 2000). Marvel still retained some rights, and tried to exercise those rights in a way that pissed off Fox, which caused the fight.

I don't think there's any separation on it. The court says ALL TV rights belong to Marvel. It doesn't say "all direct to tv movie rights belong to Marvel". I'm taking what is in the court case at face value and not trying to make such assumptions.

The animated TV show was something that both parties wanted back in the 90s. Not relevant here, but Buena Vista distributes those XMen cartoons today, not Fox.
 
I don't think there's any separation on it. The court says ALL TV rights belong to Marvel. It doesn't say "all direct to tv movie rights belong to Marvel". I'm taking what is in the court case at face value and not trying to make such assumptions

Well, both of us have said neither of us are 100% sure that we're reading it right, but the film/TV rights as negotiated in 92 seem to have allowed for Fox to make TV Shows and movies, and it appears the fight was over Made for TV movies, to which Marvel did have the rights? That seems to be the distinction by which Fox ended up winning their fight. That Marvel wanted an animated show doesn't mean a TV rights deal wasn't still struck. And at the time, Marvel was very much into licensing their characters out for production, not producing shit on their own.

I dunno. I'm also pretty sure there's a Marvel exec on the record sometime in the last 2/3 years who stated Fox never not had TV rights to their characters, as well, although finding that quote again after the last time I saw it brought up is kinda hard.

That all said - it's fairly clear Fox does have the rights now, and there's been zero word from anyone involved that any sort of deal was cut in order for them to hold those rights. They have them, and it appears their holding them is part of the same deal that allows them rights to make the X-Men films.

The whole notion seems to primarily exist (and persist) as a means for fans to play fantasy football with their favorite comics characters.
 
Well, both of us have said neither of us are 100% sure that we're reading it right, but the film/TV rights as negotiated in 92 seem to have allowed for Fox to make TV Shows and movies, and it appears the fight was over Made for TV movies, to which Marvel did have the rights? That seems to be the distinction by which Fox ended up winning their fight. That Marvel wanted an animated show doesn't mean a TV rights deal wasn't still struck. And at the time, Marvel was very much into licensing their characters out for production, not producing shit on their own.

I dunno. I'm also pretty sure there's a Marvel exec on the record sometime in the last 2/3 years who stated Fox never not had TV rights to their characters, as well, although finding that quote again after the last time I saw it brought up is kinda hard.

That all said - it's fairly clear Fox does have the rights now, and there's been zero word from anyone involved that any sort of deal was cut in order for them to hold those rights. They have them, and it appears their holding them is part of the same deal that allows them rights to make the X-Men films.

The whole notion seems to primarily exist (and persist) as a means for fans to play fantasy football with their favorite comics characters.

Executives oftentimes don't know a whole lot to be honest. Quesada said Namor was back at Marvel and Feige said naw and then Quesada said yeah again last year. I take what's in a legal document over what some exec says. You're right though, I might be 100% wrong. Would be nice to have someone with a law degree have some insight, but I doubt we'll get that here lol

I don't think it's clear at all that Fox have the sole live action TV rights to the XMen now. What's clear is that they are producing them with Marvel. I do remember them saying there was a deal for 2 shows from Fox, for however many seasons they wanted, to tell the story. I'm too lazy to look for a quote, so feel free to not believe me. If Fox starts announcing other XMen shows by themselves, I'd be more likely to change my opinion on this matter. As is, nothing unexpected has happened from the time Legions was announced IMO. I will agree that people like playing fantasy football with comic book characters. Not that much different than gamers and their favorite games. That's never gonna go away.
 
I'm too lazy to look for a quote, so feel free to not believe me.

Well I mean, it's not like I think you're lying or whatever. I just think the shit is so muddy (as we've both acknowledged up to this point) and hasnt' gotten any clearer from about a decade-plus of fan misinformation swirling (and coagulating) around the original fights as they were happening that sometimes shit that sounds right just isn't.

But Fox and Marvel working together was always a thing. Even back in 2000. Fox has the rights, but having the rights doesn't mean the two companies don't have a line open. They talk.
 
Well I mean, it's not like I think you're lying or whatever. I just think the shit is so muddy (as we've both acknowledged up to this point) and hasnt' gotten any clearer from about a decade-plus of fan misinformation swirling (and coagulating) around the original fights as they were happening that sometimes shit that sounds right just isn't.

But Fox and Marvel working together was always a thing. Even back in 2000. Fox has the rights, but having the rights doesn't mean the two companies don't have a line open. They talk.

I agree with everything you say here, except when you say Fox has the rights. Shit's a mess.
 
I really want Disney to make a play for the Fantastic Four rights, not for the heroes, but for the villains. The FF have one of the best pantheons of villains, ones that fight the entire Marvel Universe to boot: Kang, Galactus, the Skrulls, and oh yeah, FREAKING DOCTOR DOOM. With the MCU blowing their load with Thanos at the end of Phase 3 and really not having anyone else they have the rights to that can top him, getting those four under their umbrella would do a lot.

Either way, I wouldn't read too much into this, Feige swore up and down that Spidey wasn't coming to the MCU despite rumors to the contrary and eventual announcement.
 

mjc

Member
It doesn't make much sense to me that they'd broker a deal for the Watchers only to use them in a glorified cameo...like I know comic nerds loved it but 80% of people seeing GotG2 have no stock in seeing them show up.
 
It doesn't make much sense to me that they'd broker a deal for the Watchers only to use them in a glorified cameo...like I know comic nerds loved it but 80% of people seeing GotG2 have no stock in seeing them show up.

It wasn't "brokering a deal". They probably had the lawyers take another look at the contract and they realized that Fox only owns Uatu, and not the entire race of the Watchers, just like Fox only owns Super Skrull, and not the entire Skrull race. Which makes me think of Secret Invasion as a possible Phase 4 movie.
 

Caspel

Business & Marketing Manager @ GungHo
While MCU would be better with Galactus, Doom, Annihilus, and Silver Surfer in it, they still have enough villains to last the next 5-7 years.

Avenger-level threats:
Surtur
Dormammu
Kang
Maestro
Mephisto
Beyonder
Mandarin
Magus
Ares
High Evolutionary
Immortus
Gravitron (if they decide to bring him back after Agents of Shield)
The Void
Korvac

Solo threats:
Carnage
Venom
Norman Osbourne
Enchantress
The Leader
Baron Mordo
Arcade
MODOK
Bullseye
Thunderbolt Ross / Red Hulk
Mad Thinker
Morgan Le Fay
The Hood
Count Nefaria
Taskmaster
Blackheart
Terrax (not certain if he is tied to FF)
Gorr
The Wrecking Crew
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Fantastic Four is unfilmable as a "serious" movie. Not that it needs to be edgelord, but even Thor plays action straight. A camp, genuine belly laughs version could work. That's it. Comically camp heroes and a villain so lame that I literally look forward to the single panel "proofs" that he's the "best villain."

Just embrace it.
 

DeathyBoy

Banned
Fantastic Four is unfilmable as a "serious" movie. Not that it needs to be edgelord, but even Thor plays action straight. A camp, genuine belly laughs version could work. That's it. Comically camp heroes and a villain so lame that I literally look forward to the single panel "proofs" that he's the "best villain."

Just embrace it.

Just use the GOTG tone. That's what Hickman did, just with smarter characters.
 
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