Jim Ryan and Playstation must be sued for misleading PS5 buyer

VFXVeteran

Banned
it's not about how much you can cram data into RAM but how fast you can stream data into/out of RAM from SSD what this does is frees up RAM as less data is needed to be stored inside RAM so your logic that somehow PS5 GPU can't keep up with SSD speed because of high resolution/FPS and heavy RT pipeline doesn't make sense because purpose of PS5 SSD is different apart loading times which actually meant fill up RAM as fast as possible.
A graphics pipeline is determined specifically by how much data it needs to rasterize and render to the screen. If your GPU is being held up on rasterizing, then it's the bottleneck -- not the SSD.

I'll digress from discussing this further.
 

Zimmy68

Member
Add to things I will never understand including the Sony vs Xbox like people have money on the winner.

Fanboys upset because they lose an exclusive?

So a 4+ year old Playstation game is released on PC giving the great developers much needed influx of cash to help develop their next game...
That is a bad thing?
 

MiguelItUp

Member
It's wild to think that there are people that are legitimately upset about this.

Add to things I will never understand including the Sony vs Xbox like people have money on the winner.

Fanboys upset because they lose an exclusive?

So a 4+ year old Playstation game is released on PC giving the great developers much needed influx of cash to help develop their next game...
That is a bad thing?

Yeah, I don't understand either...

Sony is evolving and they're taking their games to PC to earn extra money, and I can't blame them. A lot of the ports are games that people enjoyed on their PS systems a great deal ago. So where's the harm in releasing it on PC to share it with a larger audience and make more money? The majority probably don't even play them anymore or even think about them?
 

VFXVeteran

Banned
What about one year? 18 months? Does that effect thing?

Trying to figure out where people think the line is.

It's an interesting question
But when I mentioned this whole complaint thing is based on a "time" window, I was immediately corrected that "no one ever said that". I swear it's like everyone else can say what I'm saying and it gets accepted but when I say it - I get a bunch of crybabies trying to troll what I say.
 

Topher

Gold Member
But when I mentioned this whole complaint thing is based on a "time" window, I was immediately corrected that "no one ever said that". I swear it's like everyone else can say what I'm saying and it gets accepted but when I say it - I get a bunch of crybabies trying to troll what I say.

Please tell me you are not referring to the discussion you and I had this weekend.
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
If everything were coming to PC day and date I could see an issue but these threads are silly till then. That's not even getting into the fact of not being able to build a PC for 500 that'll be nearly as good. It's all gravy baby. PS is still the place to be for their games if that's your jam. Happy PS5 owner here.
 
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reksveks

Member
But when I mentioned this whole complaint thing is based on a "time" window, I was immediately corrected that "no one ever said that". I swear it's like everyone else can say what I'm saying and it gets accepted but when I say it - I get a bunch of crybabies trying to troll what I say.
I do think you are a bit divisive to some people because of their preference to a console. Not deserved imo.

I generally try to let them hang themselves with their internal logic.
 

Bigfroth

Member
hd attention GIF
lol, Why would this bother anybody who plays games?
 

kevm3

Member
Ultimately, I'm not mad at all of this stuff being ported to PC. There are no 'generations' on PC, so you can pretty much play all the old games, and now that all the 'current gen' games are coming to PC, there's little reason to spend $500 for these systems unless you just want to play multiplayers with other friends who don't want to buy a gaming PC. On top of that, multiplayer is free on PC
 
I love it when people embarrass themselves like this. Who cares if the games are on PC.

More sales equals more money for Sony which means greater investment in future properties.

Easier preservation too.

This is a win for everyone but some Sony fans are just too busy crying about PC gamers waiting 3-4 years to play their exclusives. Get some bloody perspective you weirdos.
 
I used to think this way when I was 13 years old, OP, so my heart bleeds for you. If it is any consolation, you will outgrow this possessive sentiment before you get out of your puberty phase.
Sony made it clear mutiple times that they are exptending their reach to both the PC and mobile market; a necessary and great move for all involved. More sales, more money, more titles funded, studios expanded and new teams acquired. Sony needs it more than MS, imo: Contrary to MS, Sony can not rely on the tens of billions its other arms make to perpetually subsidize their video games department; It needs to be self-reliant and prosperous enough to justify growing their FP catalogue and strenghtening their 3rd party deals. Pretty obvious stuff, really.
Do you want your big single player bangers? If yes, you should support their decision to cater to bigger audiances whenever possible.
Plus, do not expect a day and date release, at least for the major franchises, over the course of the next 5-6 years...They will still target the PS5 first, to get the maximum out of the hardware, before tasking their support studios with creating a PC port. However, do expect them, once they hit a critical mass with their new service, possibly towards the PS6 release, to go the MS route for good. A logical step business wise, and one that only crazed fanboys would possibly object to. Be a fan, not a fanboy!
But if you maintain that Sony lied, despite their freaking public statements on the subject, including to their own shareholders, I imvite you to sue them to obtain some reparations...Should money be a problem in the case you decide to go for it, I suggest we, at GAF, help you out to bring down the vile company. I triple dare you! 😎😎😎
 
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Topher

Gold Member
At least this thread exposes those who are console warriors vs those who are gamers. There's no reason anyone should be forced to play a game on a specific piece of plastic.

That depends. From purely a gamer perspective, perhaps. From a business perspective, there are certainly reasons why a company would want to highlight their product/ecosystem over their competitors. Xbox and Playstation are going to continue their rituals of excluding the other from the majority of their games. I think business reasons are valid reasons and frankly, I want them to both continue their competition as gamers ultimately benefit. If that means I have to continue buying competing pieces of plastic then so be it. But I think Sony is realizing that PC is neutral territory when it comes to their console competition with Microsoft. Sony's inclusion of PC as one of its supported platforms has nothing to do with the console war. If those are truly upset about this would step back and realize that then their perspective might change. As holy as this war is to some, porting PS games to PC isn't the damnable sin they believe it is.
 

Kataploom

Member

Wether a game goes to pc or not has absolutley no effect on me. Ive enjoyed it on the console i own. It doesnt make that experience worse for me.

This is too much emotional investment.
I once said that I didn't understand how can people get passionate about toys and some people got it personal... I can get why, I was harsh tbh, but seeing this thread and your response makes think this is probably what I meant that time... The problem is that, getting emotional over a company decision like it affects you personally outside of the hobby lol
 

Draugoth

Gold Member
Stay tune for PS State of Play....for PC game news !



What happened to “Only on Playstation”? Why would they even go with that tagline in the first place? Exclusives do not matter?! Or is that not true?

Why not port them to Xbox? Because it’s the competition. They assume PC isn’t, or won’t be in x number of years.

Sony trained us over x number of years to believe exclusives do matter. It was really only 1 year ago that “Only on Playstation” was the tagline they were running with. Now we are to forget about it and go along with what they want to promote next. Just because I guess.

I’m going to say something most won’t like. But I respect Xbox’s transparency way more than Sony’s at this point.

For third party games, like Forspoken for example. Sony loves to be transparent. They’ll put fine print at the bottom “limited exclusive for x months”.

But for their own first party games which we now know are also timed exclusives, there is no such disclaimer. It’s disingenuous and they’re taking us for a fucking ride.

Remember when we all thought HFW was a PS5 only game? I do. They weren’t transparent about that either.

[/URL]

^
“IT IS TIME TO GIVE THE PLAYSTATION COMMUNITY SOMETHING NEW, SOMETHING DIFFERENT, THAT CAN REALLY ONLY BE ENJOYED ON PS5.”

Jim Ryan



You realistic could lol
 

Darius87

Member
A graphics pipeline is determined specifically by how much data it needs to rasterize and render to the screen. If your GPU is being held up on rasterizing, then it's the bottleneck -- not the SSD.

I'll digress from discussing this further.
GPU renders pixels per frame basis and PS5 SSD can get 91mb to 150mb at best ~300mb data to RAM in a frame for 60hz and double that for 30hz game, you say that GPU can't crunch that much data in a single frame? :messenger_grinning_smiling: sorry that just nonsense if that would be the case modern consoles and PC won't have that much RAM like they do and even now 16GB considered not optimal amount by many devs and heavy pipeline is totally different issue which doesn't have anything to do with SSD speed if you see problem in PS5 GPU for your over exaggerated examples don't involve SSD in discussion.
 

radewagon

Member
I was fully expecting this to be a thread about how PS5's PS4 backwards compatibility is broken on classics like Senran Kagura: Estival Versus and Senran Kagura: Peach Beach Splash. Instead I find 14 pages of whatever this non-issue is.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
At least this thread exposes those who are console warriors vs those who are gamers. There's no reason anyone should be forced to play a game on a specific piece of plastic.
Many people are manchildren.

If Nintendo ever released Mario and Zelda on PC, I don’t think the avg Nintendo gamer would care. Ya some will but with such a loyal fanbase and their big name games selling like 40M copies you’d think you get the biggest ecosystem warriors on Earth. I truly believe the avg Ninty won’t give a shit. Whether they play on switch or a tablet or PC who cares.

When Epic announced Gears of War was announced for PC summer 2007 for PC (360 came out in 2006) how many 360 gamers cared? Not that many I remember. I never read such ecosystem warrioring by 360 gamers ever compared to Sony gamers.

And at the time Gears was the showcase game for that early part of the era, and the Pc game got more levels, more modes, and if you had a good Pc you could run it at 60fps which I remember seeing videos with the FRAPS counter in the corner. Let’s face it, not only did it come out a year later but it was a much improved version.

Don’t remember legions or Xbox fans going ape shit their big name 360 exclusive goes PC one year later.
 

VFXVeteran

Banned
GPU renders pixels per frame basis and PS5 SSD can get 91mb to 150mb at best ~300mb data to RAM in a frame for 60hz and double that for 30hz game, you say that GPU can't crunch that much data in a single frame? :messenger_grinning_smiling: sorry that just nonsense if that would be the case modern consoles and PC won't have that much RAM like they do and even now 16GB considered not optimal amount by many devs and heavy pipeline is totally different issue which doesn't have anything to do with SSD speed if you see problem in PS5 GPU for your over exaggerated examples don't involve SSD in discussion.
You are comparing each individual hardware piece instead of looking at the entire pipeline on a given frame in a game. Early this generation, people assumed that the SSD was going to push visuals to unprecedented heights based on the UE5 tech demo. Assuming that the GPU is in a limitless void of performance and can render anything the SSD can bring to RAM. You do remember all of that arguing right? Where people like me kept saying that the GPU needed to transform, light and shade all of those trillions of triangles and that would be the true limitation throughout the entire pipeline? I never said the VRAM was slower than the SSD throughput. I said the amount of data that the SSD (running at it's maximum throughput) pushes to the GPU would slow the rendering process in a given frame down - not because it's faster but because of the amount of content that the data is using to be rendered. My proof is these games already out that can't even handle native 4k/60FPS with nowhere near the amount of triangles/textures that Nanite was streaming in from the SSD. Matrix demo @1080p/30FPS using Nanite/RT Lumen- hello?
 

Stuart360

Member
Many people are manchildren.

If Nintendo ever released Mario and Zelda on PC, I don’t think the avg Nintendo gamer would care. Ya some will but with such a loyal fanbase and their big name games selling like 40M copies you’d think you get the biggest ecosystem warriors on Earth. I truly believe the avg Ninty won’t give a shit. Whether they play on switch or a tablet or PC who cares.

When Epic announced Gears of War was announced for PC summer 2007 for PC (360 came out in 2006) how many 360 gamers cared? Not that many I remember. I never read such ecosystem warrioring by 360 gamers ever compared to Sony gamers.

And at the time Gears was the showcase game for that early part of the era, and the Pc game got more levels, more modes, and if you had a good Pc you could run it at 60fps which I remember seeing videos with the FRAPS counter in the corner. Let’s face it, not only did it come out a year later but it was a much improved version.

Don’t remember legions or Xbox fans going ape shit their big name 360 exclusive goes PC one year later.
I honestly dont remember that many Xbox fans throwing a fit when Microsoft announced Xbox games coming to PC, i really dont. I'm sure there were one or two but most were like 'oh cool'. Sony fanboys seemed to be concerned waaaay more lol.
I suppose thats why some of them are doing it now as they have trolled Xbox for years over doing it.
And yeah i dont think Nintendo fanboys would care much either as they know Nintendo fans will buy anything Nintendo puts out in droves, outside of the odd console here and there like WiiU.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Right now it seems basically all MS games come to Xbox and PC unless it’s a PC centric game like Age of Empires or whatever. Who cares if they are cross plat.

But way back before they did this, it was hit and miss which Xbox games would go PC. I didn’t even know which games were cross play or not until I checked yesterday on wiki MS Studio Games.

Goes to show you how much I know about which games are or aren’t. Who cares. Just focus on the games on your platform and enjoy.

And if a game comes out on many devices even better as it gives options.
 

avin

Member
I think Sony is realizing that PC is neutral territory when it comes to their console competition with Microsoft.

But is PC really neutral territory? MS controls the software that underlies that platform, and they benefit from game releases on it in ways Sony doesn't. I don't imagine MS and Sony can approach this the same way. I'd guess MS will continue to release nearly everything day 1, but I'd be surprised to see Sony do the same.

avin
 
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Stuart360

Member
But is PC really neutral territory? MS controls the software that underlies that platform, and they benefit from game releases on it in ways Sony doesn't. I don't imagine MS and Sony can approach this the same way. I'd guess MS will continue to release nearly everything day 1, but I'd be surprised to see Sony do the same.

avin
Imo at best Microsft and Sony would lose maybe 10mil console sales, releasing their games on PC. But in Sony's case, does selling 110mil PS5's over 120mil really matter when you will be making tens of millions from PC game sales, vs them making a tiny profit on hardware.
People like to talk about XB1 dropping from 85mil with 360 to 55mil with XB1, but thats was more to do with an overly expensive and underpowered console, a lack of first party games, Kinect, the ridiculously bad negativity surrounding XB1 because oif the reveal, etc.
 

Topher

Gold Member
But is PC really neutral territory? MS controls the software on that platform and has a huge investment in PC gaming. I don't imagine MS and Sony can approach this the same way. I'd guess MS will continue to release nearly everything day 1, but I'd be surprised to see Sony do the same.

avin

Microsoft controls the operating system but they don't control the software that runs on Windows. Microsoft benefits from PC gaming being primarily on Windows as it helps their OS business. Sony isn't in the OS business so that is fine with them. Microsoft doesn't get a dime from any software sold on Windows that isn't their own. So yes it really is neutral territory.

I think whatever Sony's long term strategy is on PC is really has nothing to do with Microsoft. Sony and Microsoft are publishers selling their games on Steam just like so many other publishers. Their competition doesn't really exist outside of selling consoles.
 
But is PC really neutral territory? MS controls the software that underlies that platform, and they benefit from game releases on it in ways Sony doesn't. I don't imagine MS and Sony can approach this the same way. I'd guess MS will continue to release nearly everything day 1, but I'd be surprised to see Sony do the same.

avin

I doubt Sony is worried about moving the needle on Windows licenses or something.

Their actions likely have nothing to do with that.. whether we see day one or not won't depend on the fact Windows is an MS product.

We probably won't see day one for single player games at all, because Sony is finding a balance that doesn't upset it's cash cow business.
 
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Fbh

Member
That depends. From purely a gamer perspective, perhaps. From a business perspective, there are certainly reasons why a company would want to highlight their product/ecosystem over their competitors. Xbox and Playstation are going to continue their rituals of excluding the other from the majority of their games. I think business reasons are valid reasons and frankly, I want them to both continue their competition as gamers ultimately benefit. If that means I have to continue buying competing pieces of plastic then so be it. But I think Sony is realizing that PC is neutral territory when it comes to their console competition with Microsoft. Sony's inclusion of PC as one of its supported platforms has nothing to do with the console war. If those are truly upset about this would step back and realize that then their perspective might change. As holy as this war is to some, porting PS games to PC isn't the damnable sin they believe it is.

I think Sony realized a lot of PC gamers just don't want a console and a lot of console gamers just don't want a PC, they are 2 separate markets that only compete with each other in a limited capacity.
There are millions of PC gamers that just won't pick up a Ps5 to play Spiderman, but they'll buy Spiderman on PC if it's made available to them. Likewise the average console buyer wants an affordable box with decent performance and a more streamlined plug and play (ish) design and won't suddenly get into building a $1200 PC just because some exclusives have made the jump to PC.

There are going to be some people who were maybe considering getting a Ps5 and will now go with a PC, but I think on a large scale they are in the minority, and ultimately they'll still be giving Sony money when they buy the games.
 

StormCell

Member
My 2-cents...

I'd rather spend $2000 on a PC, and have access to Playstation, Xbox, Steam, and Epic than to have to buy a Playstation, an Xbox, and keep up a PC. By not buying console hardware, that's another grand I can put towards more PC stuff. It's win-win-win. I see zero problems even right now as one who owns a PS5 and a Series X.
 
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