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Jason Schreier from Kotaku reiterates that devs do not like Lockhart, "significantly less RAM"

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Who says they aren't going to also sell an xCloud dongle for the TV? Why not?

That's my point. But here it seems like MS would rather sell you a $300 console to stream on instead. Which to me is bad.

It's called F.U.D.

You'll hear plenty of this leading to the launch.

This rumor has been going on for 2 years now. Do you think everybody has been lying from the start?
 
no really. the powerful sku keeps the loyalists in line.
Maybe?

For me, I see Microsoft releasing two consoles and I just think "cluster fuck incoming, keep with the X and pick up the PS5"

Microsoft are my favourite company, behind Sega back in the day. But I didn't pick up an Xbox One until 3 years in to the gen because of the Kinect mishap and TV TV TV. If Microsoft release two differently powered consoles on launch day, I won't be buying until they release the Scarlett X.

I just don't see how having an Xbox One, Xbox One S (both obsolete by next year) an Xbox One X a Lockhart and a Scarlett is a good idea. Unless, Lockhart is a handheld, which I think it will be, and the Lockhart and Scarlett go hand-in-hand
 

ruvikx

Banned
Jason Schreier writes a load of shit. This is the same guy who pretended Rockstar employees were literal slave labor working on Red Dead. He's in love with his own edgy image & seeks attention via any means possible. It's the definition of journalism gone wrong.
 

onQ123

Member
Do they get a larger user base though?

Providing 2 different version, presumably with great difference in power, at launch will limit the production of both versions quite a bit, I assume.
There'll definitely be confusion because of the differences and then you'd have to assume that Lockhart demand will be as high as Scarletts.

Meanwhile, Sony can just focus on solely PS5 and deliver an actual next-gen console compared to Lockhart, with better availability.

In a worst-case scenario, MS is shooting themselves in the foot in quite a fashionable way.


They will get the larger user base because it will include Xbox One S , Xbox One X , Windows 10 devices , & Scarlett devices.


Besides being disc-less Lockhart is pretty much what I thought Xbox One X was gonna be & it would have slowed down PS4 sales.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Jason Schreier writes a load of shit. This is the same guy who pretended Rockstar employees were literal slave labor working on Red Dead. He's in love with his own edgy image & seeks attention via any means possible. It's the definition of journalism gone wrong.
tom warren reported the same thing.

digital foundry reported devs being unhappy with the lockhart way back at e3.

jason isnt the only one reporting this.
 

onQ123

Member
I think this is gonna be another tard pack situation, maybe magnified even more this time.

Lockhart will probably be the bestseller of the 2 but it wouldn't matter because they are One & the goal is to build a bigger user base that span across many devices.
 

Psykodad

Banned
They will get the larger user base because it will include Xbox One S , Xbox One X , Windows 10 devices , & Scarlett devices.
Obviously.
But let's say that Lockhart won't sell well because people want the full next-gen experience instead of a gimped next-gen console.
That would be a very bad gamble by MS, because Lockhart seems to basically be a discless current gen-level console.
 
Jason Schreier writes a load of shit. This is the same guy who pretended Rockstar employees were literal slave labor working on Red Dead. He's in love with his own edgy image & seeks attention via any means possible. It's the definition of journalism gone wrong.
I kind of agree with this. He plays the Era crowd like a fiddle because they will wash his balls no matter what he says as long as it paints Sony in a positive way and shits on Microsoft.
 

onQ123

Member
Obviously.
But let's say that Lockhart won't sell well because people want the full next-gen experience instead of a gimped next-gen console.
That would be a very bad gamble by MS, because Lockhart seems to basically be a discless current gen-level console.

The mass market soccer moms & grandparents who buy up everything that someone tell them is cool will not give a damn about someone saying it's gimped.
 
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Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
“KOTAKU”

Why is this even being discussed? And let’s say it’s true... why does my wife’s 970Gtx pc limit what my 2080ti can do?

I don’t believe there will be two consoles, and if there are, I believe it’s a bad move from MS. But I also believe it won’t limit anything at all. But keep pushing that PS5=god tier chat folks.
 
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Psykodad

Banned
The mass market soccer moms & grandparents who buy up everything that someone tell is cool will not give a damn about someone saying it's gimped.
That's assuming people will say that Lockhart is cool.

If Lockhart is what it seems to be, it probably won't take long for it to become the poor man's console that all the friends at school make fun of.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
If PS4/XB1 can life along Pro/X, so will Lockhart along Scarlett be able to - 4K rendering and 4K textures DO require a significantly more memory/bandwidth, so if MS is about to make a let's say a FullHD next-gen console, they can easily cut the GPU size and bandwidth in half compared to Scarlett

I mean, I played Witcher 3 on both 980 and 1080Ti, 1080p60 and 4K60 respectively, and guess what? It was the exact same game. Same CPU, same RAM, same SSD, the only thing that changed in my PC was the GPU that had more TFlops and more vRAM/bandwidth, nothing more, but the thing is - even in 1080p back on that 980, it was still the same Wither 3 we all know. And that applies to every single game out there, I know most of the kids on gaming sites love to fight about pixels in their console wars, and the media live off those wars, but the games are all the same, no matter the output resolution, that's a fact. Let me put it this way - running Life of Black Tiger in 8k 120FPS won't make the game any better, at all.

Like i said earlier today in the other topic, I have a strong feeling the lazy devs will try to sell us as much fancy gimmicks as possible, including eye candy (or should I say mostly eye candy), instead of actually focusing on making great games - games with engaging stories, interesting characters, and great/fun gameplay.

RDNA's 4TF is really close to the same computing power as GCN's 6TF found in X1X ofers, which can do even such a demanding game as RDR2 in native 4K for example, so there's really no excuse if they would get such computing power for much, much lower resolution, especially given all those dynamic/temporal/reconstructed resolution tech the devs have developed during this gen. "Significantly less RAM: could mean 8-12GB vs (most likely) 24GB in the "big" consoles, which again, shouldn't be much of an issue, as MS already separates 4K content only for the X1X - as far as I know you simply ca'nt download 4K textures on the base XB1. And again, if the devs can already make pretty much infinitely large levels with 8GB of RAM on the PS4/XB1, such amount shouldn't be much of a bottleneck, given it would be backed up by the supposedly marvelous new SSD tech.

All in all, I'd love to see a cheaper, FHD-focused console, but A) MS must be smart about it, and not cut the corners by too much - soma rumor says about Lockhart targeting QHD, which IMO would be a dumb idea as no TV support such resolution natively, which would only unnecessarly waste the console's limited resources, and B) the devs would have to stop whining and get the job done, but - if such a console would really appear, and would be successful, they wouldn't have a choice i guess. 2020 gaming conferences will surely be hella interesting, that's for sure.
 

pawel86ck

Banned
4.9TF RDNA1 should be already on pair with 6TF Polaris (xbox-x GPU), and RDNA2 should be even more efficient, so I expect xbox-x results. I will be really surprised if Lockhart GPU will be slower than xbox-x, because xbox-x games wouldn't even run on it.

Xbox-x GPU like performance at 1080p should offer 5x more GPU resources compared to standard xbox one GPU, and that's similar difference as in previous generation (xbox 360 GPU vs Xbox one). In fact if developers will still make games to run at 900-1080p (like on xbox one) this improvement should be even bigger compared to previous generation, because xbox one games run games with 2x more pixels compared to x360 games and therefore xbox one had to waste some GPU resources on resolution increase alone. Of course Anaconda will need to waste even more GPU resources just to run the same game at 4K, so I can see where 10-12TF will go :messenger_savoring:.

However without Lockhart developers would be able to make 1080p or even 1440p games on 10-12TF anaconda with even better graphics fidelity, so lockhart will limit developers anyway.
 
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ruvikx

Banned
tom warren reported the same thing.

digital foundry reported devs being unhappy with the lockhart way back at e3.

jason isnt the only one reporting this.

I have no idea who Tom Warren is so I don't see why name dropping him matters. I do know we're entering peak console war cycle (before a new gen hits) ergo clickbaiting & other BS claims pollute reporting from now until release. I also find the "devs" aspect interesting, i.e. people shit all over devs 24/7 for years until apparently they anonymously shit on a particular console manufacturer, at which point their word is godly, of course.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I have no idea who Tom Warren is so I don't see why name dropping him matters. I do know we're entering peak console war cycle (before a new gen hits) ergo clickbaiting & other BS claims pollute reporting from now until release. I also find the "devs" aspect interesting, i.e. people shit all over devs 24/7 for years until apparently they anonymously shit on a particular console manufacturer, at which point their word is godly, of course.
he is the editor at The Verge. he has a thread on the first page. im sure you know about digital foundry.

this news came out two days ago and MS has yet to issue a denial. Everyone has been asking Phil for a year to deny the existence of a Lockhart. He wont. Lockhart exists. and according to three different reporters with sources in the industry, they hate it.

feel free to ignore everyone else. though i do have to question why show up on an internet forum if you are going to refuse to believe people reporting on the industry.
 

vpance

Member
Lockhart will probably be the bestseller of the 2 but it wouldn't matter because they are One & the goal is to build a bigger user base that span across many devices.

Really doubt that. I think they will be incredibly lucky to have Lockhart sell 30% of all next gen Xboxes, even at a $200 discount. Early adopters don't like to buy into what will likely be seen as the compromised model. Thrift gamers will just wait and see or stick to what they already own to play cross gen versions for the first year or 2. It's a phantom target market, IMO.
 

pawel86ck

Banned
rumor says about Lockhart targeting QHD, which IMO would be a dumb idea as no TV support such resolution natively, which would only unnecessarly waste the console's limited resources, and B) the devs would have to stop whining and get the job done, but - if such a console would really appear, and would be successful, they wouldn't have a choice i guess. 2020 gaming conferences will surely be hella interesting, that's for sure.
I agree with most of what you said, but even 1440p looks clearly better on 4K TV compared to 1080p, so it's not like GPU resources would be wasted for nothing.

Lockheart sounds like a bad idea. They should just focus on Anaconda and be done with it. Lockheart is something you launch after your well into the gen.
Not all xbox one games were xbox-x enchanced. and if lockhart would launch one year later, I bet many developers wouldn't even bother patching their game to run on much slower lockhart.
 

onQ123

Member
That's assuming people will say that Lockhart is cool.

If Lockhart is what it seems to be, it probably won't take long for it to become the poor man's console that all the friends at school make fun of.

It will play Xbox games better than Xbox One & Xbox One X & will reach mass market price before the other nextgen consoles that will matter to a lot of people.
 

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
I dont even know what lockheart is

Which system is that supposed to be

It's a discless, less powerful version of the upcoming next gen Xbox.

How could it be ps4 pro level when xbox one X is significantly more powerful than that?

They're claiming the GPU is about as powerful as the PS4 Pro's, but the CPU and inclusion of a SSD should allow developers to go beyond what a PS4 Pro is capable of.
 

Humdinger

Member
So Lockhart is the next-gen version of the SAD edition? At least that's how I've got it conceptualized in my head.

I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not. I don't think it's worth the brain cells to try to analyze it. I'm not the target market, that's for sure.
 

onQ123

Member
Microsoft don't have the good luck of selling ~ 100 million consoles every time like Sony so their best move is to try to be more like iOS/Android & let Xbox become a scalable platform & build a user base beyond 100 million
 

joe_zazen

Member
Microsoft don't have the good luck of selling ~ 100 million consoles every time like Sony so their best move is to try to be more like iOS/Android & let Xbox become a scalable platform & build a user base beyond 100 million

it is just part of their pivot to pc, which already has the reach if ios and android. Pc is scalable and requires supporting old/unpowered machines, which MS and 3rd parties currently do. xbox is nothing more than a complimentary product to PCs, not a true console environment anymore (walled garden with exclusives).

Full next gen 3rd party games take minimum of two years post console release, eg CoD and AssCreed. It wont matter for the first couple of years, but after that lockhart will be a boat anchor until MS drops support. Oh well...

.
 

onQ123

Member
it is just part of their pivot to pc, which already has the reach if ios and android. Pc is scalable and requires supporting old/unpowered machines, which MS and 3rd parties currently do. xbox is nothing more than a complimentary product to PCs, not a true console environment anymore (walled garden with exclusives).

Full next gen 3rd party games take minimum of two years post console release, eg CoD and AssCreed. It wont matter for the first couple of years, but after that lockhart will be a boat anchor until MS drops support. Oh well...

.

I was going to speak on that and yes this is their way of having a walled garden in the PC world.
 

Grinchy

Banned
You know Lockhart is also Scarlet. Infact Microsoft never talked about Lockhart and Anaconda themselves, they only said 'Project Scarlet'. Everything else is a rumour, that the likes of Kotaku are spinning for clicks.
lol dude some people joke around here

If you think I was seriously suggesting that Phil Spencer accidentally confirmed that he only likes the Scarlet model and not the Lockhart one, it's a major case of broken sarcasm detector.
 

onQ123

Member
Well, technically... neither does Sony.

You do know what ~ mean right?


7b60os.jpg
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Besides being disc-less Lockhart is pretty much what I thought Xbox One X was gonna be & it would have slowed down PS4 sales.

Nothing MS is doing would slow down PS4 sales, because they don't have enough content to due that. All the hardware in the world doesn't matter if the video game content isn't there to back it up.
 

onQ123

Member
Nothing MS is doing would slow down PS4 sales, because they don't have enough content to due that. All the hardware in the world doesn't matter if the video game content isn't there to back it up.

in 2017 a Xbox that played games better than PS4 & priced in the $299 range would have slowed down PS4 sales for sure.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
market is people who want ‘next gen’ but cannot save the extra $150.

Casuals never care to jump on new consoles. Why would a casual spend $300 on a gimped next-gen console?

in 2017 a Xbox that played games better than PS4 & priced in the $299 range would have slowed down PS4 sales for sure.

Yeah.....but okay......but that technology wouldn't have existed back then. Especially not at that price.
 
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Thorrgal

Member
Man, these codenames are cringe generators. Lockhart, Scarlett and worst of all... Anaconda. Blergh.

On topic - Devs don't like Jason Schreier as he has "significantly less testosterone". I wouldn't trust him or any other "journalist" at the moment throwing around all these conflicting rumours.

There's no conflicting rumors my man, they are all reporting the same...Lockhart is back and it's an uderpowered mistake
 
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