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News Developer Speaks About Lockhart "Holding Back Next Gen." And PS5 VS XSX Dev Kits.

ethomaz

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What does this have to do with the OP?





And then went to claim they aren't a developer? And then said he gave a destiny example?
You talked about something you have no ideia and put Destiny (a clear example of weaker hardware holding back features for stronger hardware) and asked source? Lol

You have the source and move the goal to what that has to do with the OP lol

Again what your “dev” said is either made up or a lie... you can choose... what can de done on Series X can’t be done on Series S... sorry but that is the reality... I won’t ever call somebody a developer if he said the opposite.
 
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Nikana

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You talked about something you have no ideia and put Destiny (a clear example of weaker hardware holding back features for stronger hardware) and asked source? Lol

You have the source and move the goal to what that has to do with the OP lol

Dude, I never asked anything about Destiny or for a source.

You went on a destiny tangent and then said Developer? When the developer never said anything about Destiny.

So again, what does this have to do with anything the OP said?
 
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DrScissorsMD

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You can’t be serious... was a big think in 2015... anybody that played Destiny knows that.



You OP post is either made up or the dev lied.
Bruh if you generated any more FUD we'd have to start calling you Elmer.
 

ethomaz

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Bruh if you generated any more FUD we'd have to start calling you Elmer.
Wut?

I showed facts using it own Nikana’s Destiny example.

How the developer saying Destiny features were hold back due the weak hardware support is FUD? C’mon.
 
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ethomaz

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Dude, I never asked anything about Destiny or for a source.

You went on a destiny tangent and then said Developer? When the developer never said anything about Destiny.

So again, what does this have to do with anything the OP said?
You asked about the developer talking about Destiny and I give that... developer talking about old hardware holding new hardware features in Destiny.

You tried to use the Destiny example Goes against what you wanted to archive.
 

DrScissorsMD

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Wut?

I showed facts using it own Nikana’s Destiny example.

How the developer saying Destiny features were hold back due the weak hardware support is FUD? C’mon.
You're a known-quantity Sony fanboy on this forum calling verified info made up or a lie purely because it's not being as negative about XSS as you'd like. Grow the fuck up, champ.
 

Nikana

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You asked about the developer talking about Destiny and I give that... developer talking about old hardware holding new hardware features in Destiny.

You tried to use the Destiny example Goes against what you wanted to archive.

You are grossly misunderstanding something.

I never asked for a source. I asked why you said...Developer? In one of your posts as if the content in the OP wasn't a developer. As you listed other developers like ID software.

I never once said Destiny wasn't held back in any capacity.
 

Three

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You are grossly misunderstanding something.

I never asked for a source. I asked why you said...Developer? In one of your posts as if the content in the OP wasn't a developer. As you listed other developers like ID software.

I never once said Destiny wasn't held back in any capacity.
I think he is saying that you said there is no difference between next gen and current gen for games like destiny :
Games like Destiny 2 and Borderlands that span many many years are never going to be "current" or "next gen." They are a platform so they will never be on the cutting edge of tech due to how they are built. I would throw Avengers into that as well.
He showed you a source showing this was not the case. Last gen destiny had features cut due to limited RAM on the previous gen
 
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Nikana

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I think he is saying that you said there is no difference between next gen and current gen for games like destiny :

He showed you a source showing this was not the case. Last gen destiny had features cut due to limited RAM on the previous gen

But I didn't say that. All I said was they won't be on the cutting edge of tech. I didn't say there are no differences in any shape or form.
 

ethomaz

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You're a known-quantity Sony fanboy on this forum calling verified info made up or a lie purely because it's not being as negative about XSS as you'd like. Grow the fuck up, champ.
Wut?

The Bungie site is official lol
 

ethomaz

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I think he is saying that you said there is no difference between next gen and current gen for games like destiny :

He showed you a source showing this was not the case. Last gen destiny had features cut due to limited RAM on the previous gen
He knows that.. I quoted his post.
 

ethomaz

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Christ, dude, I'm talking about the BS you spewed about the actual OP. You're the one who started crapping on about Destiny and now you've shit up the thread with your confused replies.

If you've got any proof whatsoever that was was SAID IN THE OP is a lie or faked, have at it, otherwise gtfo.
That is a lie (I was very clear in my post so there is nothing confusing):

“There is nothing the Lockhart can't do that the Anaconda can.”

Do you want proof? Let’s use a simple MS example.


BTW any developer (games or apps) knows what the “dev” said is not true even without MS giving examples.

So before call what others said is FUD... look for some real facts.
 
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Three

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But I didn't say that. All I said was they won't be on the cutting edge of tech. I didn't say there are no differences in any shape or form.

but considering this topic is about low end devices holding back games what exactly did you mean by it then when responding to a comment about actual next gen games instead of up-ports?

The issue mentioned in Destiny will not be an issue anymore though since the SSD would be fast enough for that even with the limited RAM.

I admit I am skeptical of the whole "My buddy who works for so and so" stories but that just my opinion.

You don't need to be skeptical. The scope of making a PS4 or xbox one game run on a next gen machine is completely different to one where an engine dev creates something with the lowest common denominator in mind or a game designed from scratch. In the end it depends what you are trying to achieve whether Lockhart is a problem to you or not. The people pretending that there are no unhappy devs though are kidding themselves.
 
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ethomaz

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You really have no clue how difficult it is to follow your lines of conversation here. I'm not the only one that has stated this.
It was a direct quote.

 
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Nikana

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but considering this topic is about low end devices holding back games what exactly did you mean by it then when responding to a comment about actual next gen games instead of up-ports?

That games that are built as platforms or long term (destiny, avengers, borderlands, warframe etc) will never be ok the cutting edge as they are built with the idea of supporting many platforms.

I think people are trying to somehow correlate that because I asked the questions I must share the view of the developer. I don't agree with all of them but I'm much more willing to take the words of someone who's actually worked on the hardware over someone who hasnt. I simply asked someone questions that people were asking back in July.
 

Nikana

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It was a direct quote.


Ok...and where did I state destiny WASNT held back? I didn't. All I said was that games like destiny and Borderlands won't ever be on the cutting edge of tech.

Which they won't be. Do you really think Destiny is only capable of 4k/60 on XSX and PS5 and those systems would tapped out potentially? If they built from the ground up on the new graphical features and APIs they would obviously be able to do a lot more. But that's not the goal of those games.
 

ethomaz

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Ok...and where did I state destiny WASNT held back? I didn't. All I said was that games like destiny and Borderlands won't ever be on the cutting edge of tech.

Which they won't be. Do you really think Destiny is only capable of 4k/60 on XSX and PS5 and those systems would tapped out potentially? If they built from the ground up on the new graphical features and APIs they would obviously be able to do a lot more. But that's not the goal of those games.
Destiny will be held back by PS4/XB1 even if they release a PS5/Series X version.
When they remove the PS4/XB1 version it will be held back by Series S.
 
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Gamer79

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You're a known-quantity Sony fanboy on this forum calling verified info made up or a lie purely because it's not being as negative about XSS as you'd like. Grow the fuck up, champ.
 

ethomaz

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I already implied that.
So you don’t believe in it own OP? Seems like we are in the same page.

Thinking a bit about the OP is very old before MS shows lower hardware holds higher hardware.
 
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Kataploom

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So Cerny said back when presenting PS4 Pro they'd need around 7.2 TF to output native 4K.

That's 4 times base PS4 TF (1.8 TF).

That means that Xbox Series S with only a third of Series X TF GPU would exceed Cerny stimations for the proportions needed between one and the other to run games on 4K on the most powerful and at least 1080p in the less powerful machine.

And in this case TF do scalate more linearly because of same architecture on both devices.

Should we believe Cerny at least?
 

ReBurn

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So Cerny said back when presenting PS4 Pro they'd need around 7.2 TF to output native 4K.

That's 4 times base PS4 TF (1.8 TF).

That means that Xbox Series S with only a third of Series X TF GPU would exceed Cerny stimations for the proportions needed between one and the other to run games on 4K on the most powerful and at least 1080p in the less powerful machine.

And in this case TF do scalate more linearly because of same architecture on both devices.

Should we believe Cerny at least?
Does the move from Jaguar to Zen change the calculation? So much of this seems relative and trying to baseline Series S performance off of Cerny's base PS4 architecture comments feels confusing.
 

Exanthus

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That is a lie (I was very clear in my post so there is nothing confusing):

“There is nothing the Lockhart can't do that the Anaconda can.”

Do you want proof? Let’s use a simple MS example.


BTW any developer (games or apps) knows what the “dev” said is not true even without MS giving examples.

So before call what others said is FUD... look for some real facts.

I was enjoying this thread till this shit storm.
There's always one.... or 10
 
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DrScissorsMD

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That is a lie (I was very clear in my post so there is nothing confusing):

“There is nothing the Lockhart can't do that the Anaconda can.”

Do you want proof? Let’s use a simple MS example.


BTW any developer (games or apps) knows what the “dev” said is not true even without MS giving examples.

So before call what others said is FUD... look for some real facts.
Cool, so you apply even the tiniest bit of unbiased logic and understand that it obviously means, within context, it will play the same games at a lower resolution. You know, like the entire fucking point of the box. If it could literally do all the same things then IT WOULD BE AN XSX and NOT AN XSS. You are so unwilling to apply any sense or logic to what is said and only take it at face value to push your own narrative.
 

Kataploom

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Does the move from Jaguar to Zen change the calculation? So much of this seems relative and trying to baseline Series S performance off of Cerny's base PS4 architecture comments feels confusing.

Look, I'm far from being a graphic programmer, but NO.

The teraflops are only a GPU calculation, it doesn't say anything about AI, physics, general game worls complexity, events, and whatnot, since most of the time they are handled by CPU.

Games won't be held back by XSS because apart from graphics, everything is basically the same and games are not done uppon the graphics, but otherwise.
 
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genesisblock

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It's seems every positive news about the S stems from either being an indie title or a cross-gen title. This is getting ridiculous, developers can end this once and for all by saying we can target 1440p + full scope with next-gen that can be scaled down to the S.

That's literally it.

Or just say they can pull off the Unreal Engine 5 demo on the S with a lower resolution.
 

CatLady

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How long was I out! I didn't things would get this bad.

Angry Sony warrior doesn't like info from a bordelands Dev that OP verified with Mods before posting. Angry Sony warrior calls Dev either made up or a liar and goes on to aggressively derail and disrupt the thread.

So pretty much the standard behavior from the usual suspects when they don't like the info in a thread. Except this info was Mod pre-approved.
 

ethomaz

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Angry Sony warrior doesn't like info from a bordelands Dev that OP verified with Mods before posting. Angry Sony warrior calls Dev either made up or a liar and goes on to aggressively derail and disrupt the thread.

So pretty much the standard behavior from the usual suspects when they don't like the info in a thread. Except this info was Mod pre-approved.
I think you have no ideia what mean be mod-approved.
It not guarantee it is true... mods already explained that a lot of times.
 
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Angry Sony warrior doesn't like info from a bordelands Dev that OP verified with Mods before posting. Angry Sony warrior calls Dev either made up or a liar and goes on to aggressively derail and disrupt the thread.

So pretty much the standard behavior from the usual suspects when they don't like the info in a thread. Except this info was Mod pre-approved.
I meant out of the gaming industry. The majority pre 2014 GAF wouldn't stand for a 4 TF bottleneck in the console industry. Bottom line is, when you complain about why the facial animations never get better, the skyboxes are restrictive, the COD games seem oddly the same as previous gen, etc. then don't say we didn't tell you so.
 
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Lysandros

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So Cerny said back when presenting PS4 Pro they'd need around 7.2 TF to output native 4K.

That's 4 times base PS4 TF (1.8 TF).

That means that Xbox Series S with only a third of Series X TF GPU would exceed Cerny stimations for the proportions needed between one and the other to run games on 4K on the most powerful and at least 1080p in the less powerful machine.

And in this case TF do scalate more linearly because of same architecture on both devices.

Should we believe Cerny at least?
He said 8 TF actually not 7.2 TF.
 

Kataploom

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He said 8 TF actually not 7.2 TF.

And yet around same ballpark, no games have to be "held back" or "made from scratch" for XSS, and even if resolution has to fall a notch to keep performance on XSS, it wouldn't remotely be PS5 or XSX players business, they're another market.
 
D

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I meant out of the gaming industry. The majority pre 2014 GAF wouldn't stand for a 4 TF bottleneck in the console industry. Bottom line is, when you complain about why the facial animations never get better, the skyboxes are restrictive, the COD games seem oddly the same as previous gen, etc. then don't say we didn't tell you so.
A lot of what you just said is CPU driven, the XSS has an excellent CPU
 
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Keihart

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cross gen game it's not affected on the cross gen console, news at eleven.

Anyhow, i think the proof it's gonna be in the pudding, it's gonna be the war of exclusives, IF sony first party games manage to show the real jump early it's going to be a massacre sales wise probably and third party developers might just jump ship as they've done in previous generations already with other consoles.
The other obstacle might be pricing, PS5 most probably it's getting priced between S and X, the closer to S it gets, the harder it'll be to justify that console's market share.

There even might be more playstation exclusives only because if you dev for xbox you gotta take care of the little S, which it seems to no be sounding too hot for some devs.
 

Kataploom

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cross gen game it's not affected on the cross gen console, news at eleven.

Anyhow, i think the proof it's gonna be in the pudding, it's gonna be the war of exclusives, IF sony first party games manage to show the real jump early it's going to be a massacre sales wise probably and third party developers might just jump ship as they've done in previous generations already with other consoles.
The other obstacle might be pricing, PS5 most probably it's getting priced between S and X, the closer to S it gets, the harder it'll be to justify that console's market share.

There even might be more playstation exclusives only because if you dev for xbox you gotta take care of the little S, which it seems to no be sounding too hot for some devs.

Awww sure they develop games "4 da gamerzzzz" and not for sales... If this thing starts flying off of the shelves, they won't give two fucks about PS5 being more powerful, specially since it's not even the most powerful of the bunch
 

Kagey K

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Seems like all the devs with any sort of credibility have been using it since March.