Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
I think even if we count crossgen games youll still see the percentage reach near 4x%.
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It seems impossible to compete with Nanite and Lumen, it seems like in-house engines will become a rarity
Fbh
Member
Maybe I'll be proven wrong but right now I don't see Naughty Dog, rockstar, id, Guerilla and most other studios which have had a lot of success with their engines all switching to Unreal.
Unreal seems like a great fit for studios without their own engine, or studios which have struggled on the tech side of things like CDPR, Square, Bioware, etc.
Also maybe I'm ignorant but I'm still waiting for the big UE5 showing. A nice looking Matrix demo running at 25fps on next gen consoles isn't it for me.
Unreal seems like a great fit for studios without their own engine, or studios which have struggled on the tech side of things like CDPR, Square, Bioware, etc.
Also maybe I'm ignorant but I'm still waiting for the big UE5 showing. A nice looking Matrix demo running at 25fps on next gen consoles isn't it for me.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
ethomaz
Banned
2022 Announced Games List
- Removing all the games announced in 2022 based in what is next-gen game by
Black_Stride
rules
- Used announced release list for 2022 (it can be not accurate): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_in_video_games#April–June
- Used announced release list for UE5 (it can be not accurate): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_5
- Bonus using the
Black_Stride
31 from his mind list (that there is UE4 games but his definition of next-gen doesn't exclude them): https://www.neogaf.com/threads/it-s...s-will-become-a-rarity.1634940/post-266019502
2022: 2 of 16 are UE (~13%)
Honored games not included in the list due not fitting the "next-gen" weird rules: God of War: Ragnarok, Evil Dead: The Game (UE), Vampire: The Masquerade – Swansong (UE), Sniper Elite 5, Xenoblade Chronicles 3, Gotham Knights (UE), etc.
I will do 2023 announced game list soon.
- Removing all the games announced in 2022 based in what is next-gen game by
Black_Stride
rules- Used announced release list for 2022 (it can be not accurate): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_in_video_games#April–June
- Used announced release list for UE5 (it can be not accurate): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_5
- Bonus using the
Black_Stride
31 from his mind list (that there is UE4 games but his definition of next-gen doesn't exclude them): https://www.neogaf.com/threads/it-s...s-will-become-a-rarity.1634940/post-266019502 - Project Love and Cafe
- Chernobylite
- Demon Gaze Extra
- Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodhunt (UE4, bonus list)
- Brigandine: The Legend of Runersia
- Hardspace: Shipbreaker
- The Day Before
- Beyond the Edge of Owlsgard
- Steelrising
- Freedom Planet 2
- Warhammer 40,000: Darktide
- Forspoken
- Kingdoms of the Dump
- Scorn (UE4, normal list)
- Sons of the Forest
- Starfield
2022: 2 of 16 are UE (~13%)
Honored games not included in the list due not fitting the "next-gen" weird rules: God of War: Ragnarok, Evil Dead: The Game (UE), Vampire: The Masquerade – Swansong (UE), Sniper Elite 5, Xenoblade Chronicles 3, Gotham Knights (UE), etc.
I will do 2023 announced game list soon.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Pc
What's the difference between nanite and mesh shaders? Would developers adding mesh shading to their games be as much of a game changer?
What's the difference between nanite and mesh shaders? Would developers adding mesh shading to their games be as much of a game changer?
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Javthusiast
Banned
ethomaz
Banned
Think like Mesh Shaders is a tool that you need to code and use.
Nanite is the result of the tool already ready to use.
itsjustJEFF
Member
Maybe, if UE5 was infinitely customizable (aka being able to create a game that looks nothing like that demo, but uses all the same tech)... but I doubt it'll be something that will replace all in-house engines. Look at the automotive industry, brands make their own engine and sometimes they license them out to other car brands. But, no matter how good that engine is it won't be the right "fit" for every car... literally won't in some cases. Why spend millions and millions of dollars in R&D to build a new straight six engine when BMW already built an amazing one? Why build a new 4-cylender engine when Honda has such an efficient one they already built? Because sometimes you need a custom solution. So you either compromise and use a solution that works with UE5 or you create your own solution.
I actually HOPE that custom in-house solutions don't go away, some of the best/innovative stuff has come out of the necessity to fulfill a specific need/want. But, I do think if UE5 is very customizable it could be an amazing base to build off of... and we have seen some heavily modified versions of engines.
EDIT: Legit question, I remember ppl saying that UE4 based games had a "look" to them. I could never completely tell, but apparently it was a thing
I actually HOPE that custom in-house solutions don't go away, some of the best/innovative stuff has come out of the necessity to fulfill a specific need/want. But, I do think if UE5 is very customizable it could be an amazing base to build off of... and we have seen some heavily modified versions of engines.
EDIT: Legit question, I remember ppl saying that UE4 based games had a "look" to them. I could never completely tell, but apparently it was a thing
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ethomaz
Banned
Since Crash on PS1... they never changed the name... there is probably something like internal version and it was remade several times already.
They talked about it in 2015: https://ubm-twvideo01.s3.amazonaws....rling_Christian_Parallelizing_The_Naughty.pdf
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Mister Wolf
Gold Member
So for all the talk and demos we've seen for mesh shading Epic is the only one to have successfully incorporated it into a game engine?
Javthusiast
Banned
Since Crash on PS1... they never changed the name... there is probably something like internal version and it was remade several times already.
Gotta have cool names, what are they doing?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
He's clearly not talking about in-house engines that have a billion dollar company backing him...........is he?
ethomaz
Banned
I believe there are others engine that already make use of Mesh Shaders.
There are games in UE4 that uses Mesh Shaders (but it coded by the developer).
In any case.
I was a bit simplistic here Nanite uses Mesh Shaders but there is more about it.
I just wanted to point that they are in different levels... Mesh Shaders is a feature available in GPUs/DX12/Vulkan to developers use... while Nanite is a fully developed solution available in UE5 that uses Mesh Shaders... a developer using UE5 can go there and use Nanite via parameters/setthings without need to really code the solution.
Any developer can create it own "Nanite" using Mesh Shaders or others available features in APIs or GPUs.
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ethomaz
Banned
Weird somebody else told me in this thread he is only talking about big AAA developers because smaller AA and indies developers are not counted as next-gen developers.
And the guy still doesn't understand why it is obtuse and far from the reality lol
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
This dude has never released a game lol
Why would you trust someone like that's opinion of how in house engines are doing?
This guy doesn't know shit.
Let's wait and see some actual games using Lumen/Nanite before we compare it to any in house engine. Matrix demo is the closest we have and it's still just a demo, isn't the only "Game" portion an on-rails shooter experience?
Everything Lumen/Nanite right now runs like total garbage.
Why would you trust someone like that's opinion of how in house engines are doing?
This guy doesn't know shit.
Let's wait and see some actual games using Lumen/Nanite before we compare it to any in house engine. Matrix demo is the closest we have and it's still just a demo, isn't the only "Game" portion an on-rails shooter experience?
Everything Lumen/Nanite right now runs like total garbage.
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luffie
Member
The topic is about UE making all other engine obsolete.
How is your reading comprehension?
luffie
Member
Irrelevant, Whataboutism. Tell that to Genshin and many other games who aren't using UE.Why sell a game when you can sell a dance and make more money than the guys selling games?
P.S
I take it you havent used Unreal Engine in the past like decade?
If you arent a powerful coder you have Blueprint, if you are confident in your coding work use C++.
Unreal is easily extensible if theres something that it doesnt do that you need your game to do.
How much easier can things get?
I take it you are certainly way smarter than all these programmers combined? Why don't you show them how you can make their games better in UE5?
Otherwise it's all talk and no action.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
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remember_spinal
Banned
Its hard for haters to admit all sony games actually have really good gameplay on top of great presentation.
Pretty great , as UE is also making all movie solutions obsolete
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Ev1L AuRoN
Member
That's why games that use their own solution look so different. UE5 needs to prove their efficiency in the new gen before we take any conclusion. On PC I can say that UE4 is shit thanks to the cache compilation stutters that plague their games.
Despiralman69
Member
Like someone said they say this about every unreal engine since 3, theres probably more in house engines there is third party ones, especially since crytek dropped the ball unreal and unity have completely dominated the market but thats because they make engines that are basic for anyone who can programme c++
Karak
Member
The one thing that has really just blown me away is the pure excitement. When I was doing a video on Unreal I was asking devs, 1st, 3rd, even PR folks, indies, what they thought. And universally it was just excitement. For the competition, for the ease of use in many cases, for the changes and improvements.
It really has been one of the most exciting time for a lot of them and it was awesome to witness
It really has been one of the most exciting time for a lot of them and it was awesome to witness
lukilladog
Member
Well, the matrix demo runs like garbage everywhere, and I don´t think detail is that great, I can download car mods for gtaV that run circles around what you see in the matrix and still have 60fps on a gtx 950.
Negotiator101
Member
Too be fair TLOU2 is a brilliant game but not all Sony games are even close to that.
That goes without saying - but then small-project studios are less likely to have the capacity to invest into technology early on too. And the proprietary tech people are talking about here is pretty much exclusively from large-ish/well financed studios.
I mean - you could argue that's just the cycle repeating itself as we've been down this route before with Unreal. If there's one noteworthy thing I see from all this is that Unity really failed to make inroads into big name projects, despite its dominance on the market overall. Ie. even if Unreal wasn't making this big push recently, it's not like most of those projects were even considering Unity.
VFXVeteran
Banned
True. But Unity now has WETA and that's a big big deal for the future. Buying a company like that will make their R&D significantly beastly as the years go by. Film devs are the "scientists" when it comes to know-how of rendering tech and they are the frontrunners of technology. If they steal some talent, they can probably come up with something better than Nanite and Lumen although Kim @ Epic has some film talent as well. It'll be interesting to see in the coming years what Unity starts to add to their rendering engine.
If you guys haven't figured it out yet, I'll tell you now - there is a race to get the first film-quality CG movie running in realtime on a graphics engine. I heard this years ago.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Horseshit!
Ultimately, Lumen and Nanite are just clever math. Unless Tim thinks Epic has an exclusive monopoly on hyper-intelligent engine and tools programmers in the industry (protip: they don't), then it's not going to be hard to see other developers rolling similar tech into their own in-house codebases.
First parties in particular will have been ahead of Epic on most of this. Given their in-house technology teams designed the freaking hardware that this tech will run on.
Equally, most first parties and large publishers now have centralized in-house dedicated tech teams who are just as well resourced as Epic.
It will take some time for devs using bespoke engines to see their newer tech filter down into their latest games, but that's how it's always been. As internal R&D teams work in independently from the teams that deliver projects, and so the tech leveraged on game dev projects will always lag the state-of-the-art stuff the R&D guys are developing.
Dust-by-Monday
Member
Oh really? You can mod GTA V to have infinite draw distances and virtually no visual LOD changes? Interesting.
lukilladog
Member
I could probably add those with mods and still run on a potato.
CamHostage
Member
I was genuinely surprised that tools like Enlighten did not have a GDC showcase of the future version of their technology. I don't know what their future is in a post-Lumen world when Epic is giving away so much for free, but I would be very surprised if it's just over for all of them.
anothertech
Member
I think it's more a case of 'UE5 represents dev tech that all the in house game engines will be copying in the near future'
lol. Impossible to compete with. *rolleyes*
lol. Impossible to compete with. *rolleyes*
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Well, you have to consider that there are WB titles that I believe are utilizing unreal, many titles in development that are also using unreal that we don't know about. Even if the 50% is not accurate, Unreal Engine is by far the most commonly used game engine in the entire AAA and likely non AAA games industry. That said, I'm also not going to be so quick to just dismiss in-house engines because they will all be upgraded accordingly and be right there in line with Unreal Engine 5, if not in some cases better.
Unreal Engine 5 basically got out in front using a software compute shader heavy approach for exactly what things like Mesh Shaders and Primitive Shaders are designed to do by helping make geometry processing more performant/flexible with the help of specialized hardware - which is making geometry processing behave more according to how the GPU is actually structured and rely less on the limitations of the input assembler. And the Lumen part of Unreal Engine 5 sounds like what Texture Space Shading does, which helps make more expensive lighting calculations much less expensive.
Other game engines will be upgraded to include their own solutions for this stuff and end up being great.
Jaguar Victory
Member
Look, it's hard to keep porting the same game for 10 years LOL
It's not a matter of if it can be done but a matter of why it would be done. Why spend millions paying highly skilled engine developers for years to do what Unreal does across devices when you can pay for a UE5 license.
Some big studios would pay and develop their own but it is becoming more rare because of where the market has headed.
The market has headed towards multiplatform, towards different hardware configurations on even the same platform on xbox, towards the biggest hardware and power differences between platforms Switch/Series S and XSX/PS5. The market has headed towards studios making 1 game where mtx and season content is more important than multimillion selling new shiny games. It's increasingly difficult and unnecessary to develop and maintain an in-house engine.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
But with every UE iteration there'll be fewer custom made 3D engines left. The development costs for alternative 3D engines that can truly compete with UE are really high and success is not ensured.
I can see why companies look at all the things UE5 can do and then wonder why they should continue employing a whole programming team for their own 3D engine when they could use an industry standard 3D engine instead. Tons of game developers are familiar with UE, no need to train new personel how to use your own tools that are much less user friendly.
The biggest benefit is that it removes some of the financial risks since the licensing costs depend on sales. UE5 is free to use for indies until a game reaches 1 million dollar in sales. I assume a similar licensing model also exists for bigger studios. The financial risk for a studio developing a game with their own custom 3D engine is higher than for a studio that switches to UE5.
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
You what love?
Which programmers am I supposed to be talking to, the guys who dont use Unreal Engine?
Theres a reason they chose not to use Unreal (Genshin Impact is a mobile game Unity plays nice on Mobile), no one is gonna ask an ongoing game to change to a completely different engine mid development or when the game is already out.
However, if you are starting a nextgen project Unreal currently looks like the best bet, assuming you dont already have a good engine inhouse.
Its not like Unity HDRP cant produce stunning results its not like Unity isnt a beyond decent engine.
Im pointing out that Unreal brings alot of advantages to a project.
^This
John Wick
Member
So have you got the data to back this up? Or is this one of those situations 'trust me bro?'
RaySoft
Member
How about "different" then? UE5 isn't the be all-end all engines and best at everything.
I can see why 3rd party devs going with UE5 instead of inhouse engines, but most 1st party will most certainly continue evolving their own engines.
Nokia was defeated when Apple entered the Phone market .. it happens.
DaGwaphics
Member
The reason I say that Lumen is CPU bound on PC is because that is the one setting that when removed (set to 1) immediately drops CPU utilization by a good amount and allows the GPU to get closer to maintaining 100% utilization (anything 3060ti and above seems to dip as low as 50% GPU utilization when Lumen is enabled). I didn't include the consoles because they may be leveraging hardware based RT more than the city sample is on PC. The fact that the city sample doesn't heavily favor Nvidia GPUs over AMD within the same class makes me think that the hardware RT isn't getting much of a workout on the platform. All just guesses, I have no idea what's going on under the hood of UE5, but in general when you can't get near 100% GPU usage consistently there is a CPU bottleneck.
Regardless, it's a hurdle for the engine at this time, because a game like the city sample is going to be limited to 30 or 40fps and that isn't what a 3080 buyer is looking to do. We've seen Metro Exodus do GI in a way that used the hardware more efficiently, other engines that could do that would have an edge over lumen. Which is what we were talking about.
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Dust-by-Monday
Member
Really? You're gonna add mesh shaders with a mod?
I'd like to see that. Seems interesting. Why even have UE5 if Rockstar's engine can do it right now?
Dust-by-Monday
Member
Won't the industry become kinda stagnant when everything runs on the same engine? Different engines have certain qualities to them. Different strengths, different weaknesses... if everyone just used the same engine, everything would pretty much look the same.
Yes, I know you can do different styles, but the tech would be the same. Same flaws. Same weaknesses.... no improvements unless Epic improves it.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Look at it another way: it evens the playing field. Using UE Japanese studios have the same powerful modern tools as western studios. The switch to Unreal Engine made Tales of Arise look lot better than the previous games developed using their own engine for example.
VFXVeteran
Banned
That's is a very crude assumption. CPU and GPU "boundness" are dynamic. You can make anything switch from one or the other by changing the scene and it's assets.
That's too bad. Epic can't help if the hardware isn't good enough for what they want to render. Nvidia/AMD will just have to make more powerful cards.
Metro Exodus doesn't have anywhere near the scope of the Matrix demo so that's an unfair comparison.
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Lethal01
Member
People thinking unique "feel" or look is due to having a cutom engine are silly, there is nothing stopping an unreal game from looking and feeling like any game you've ever played without even needing some big rewrite.
infact you are more able to create a unique look when you don't need to start an engine from scratch and can actually focus on giving your game a unique look.
infact you are more able to create a unique look when you don't need to start an engine from scratch and can actually focus on giving your game a unique look.
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