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Is Gamepass hurting Microsoft showcases?

Three

Member
That's not the only reason. Development times generally increased by a lot. Remember when Naughty Dog made three Uncharted games within 4 years? Or when Sucker Punch made three Infamous games within 5 years? Or when Guerilla made three Killzone games within 4 years? Or when Polyphony made four Gran Turismo games within 6 years? Those times are long gone and are never coming back.
I didn't even list sequels. No I don't remember that because some of that is clearly incorrect. They made 3 Uncharteds in 4 yrs. The years after that they made more Uncharteds and added TLOU into the mix too. Output did not drop like it has so severely for Rare.
Those years are not coming back mostly because we are slowly going to the GaaS model, even Naughty Dog, and Polyphony Digital have already. ND are probably working on Factions now which I'm sure will be their bread and butter and GT is pretty much live service already. The business model is shaping the industry and its game releases.
 
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Desless1

Member
No, it does not. Great for me to see what I will be able to play going forward.

But I'm not in the need of only AAA games, I play what looks interesting to me regardless. Tons of hidden gems that are overlooked by the insane expectations from gamers in general.
 

Banjo64

Gold Member
Its a $15 subscription service. The $1 deals are over for people like me. My $1 deal ends at the end of June. There doesn't appear to be anyway to restart the service with the great value. If you can find some Xbox Live cards for dirt cheap you can convert some of those to Gamepass at a prorated value, but nothing remotely close to the good deal as the $1 conversion. $14.99 a month comes out to $180 per year. There are deals to be had to lower that cost, but you will have to keep an eye out for them and none will come remotely close to the stacking multiple years of Xbox Live and converting using $1.
Yeah, you do realise that it’s not a one time offer and that when your Game Pass lapses you can just do the Gold stacking/£1 conversion all over again?
 

Wildebeest

Member
It was actually a weakness of MS in the past that every show of theirs felt like the same old same old when they just went so hard on halo/gears/forza.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
Yup , and that’s why GP is great , it’s a shit game filter . In the end it will up the AAA GAMES

When Wasteland 3 dropped on Gamepass I played it from start to finish. The game was excellent. For $10. A game I would have easily paid $60 had I not had that option.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Yeah, you do realise that it’s not a one time offer and that when your Game Pass lapses you can just do the Gold stacking/£1 conversion all over again?
Pretty sure you can’t. The offers explicitly state for new subscribers only.


I hope you’re right though. I’ll give you a big kiss if I’m wrong. Sound good?
 
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And all of these titles are confirmed to come out in the near future. You guys are acting like all of these games are cancelled, or something
Cherrypicking out the fact that I also said that they weren't launching anything in an 18 month window, which is true.

It would be a lot easier to have conversations about these topics if everyone could try existing in reality, instead of straining at every moment to defend their publisher of choice.
 

Three

Member
But it's not. It just looks incorrect because we're now used to getting a sequel every 5 years or so, if we're lucky. AAA gaming was a mistake.
It is though because you're ignoring the fact that there was a 4 year gap between Killzone Liberation and Killzone 2 too. Then counting 4yrs instead of 5yrs for Killzone 2 to shadowfall and using a studio with only sequels. Then further still ignoring other IP like TLOU for ND.

Look at what you are suggesting in the past:
Guerrilla games in 5 yrs made

Killzone 2
Killzone 3
Killzone Shadow fall

Guerrilla games 5 years to now
Horizon ZD
Horizon FW

Is that a huge change in production times?

All this to suggest that production has maybe decreased from say max 5 games to 3 due to longer production times. It hasn't really had that much of an effect. Using a 3 game spree, sequels, 2 on the same engine in 5yrs isn't that far from today. If you were to count sequels and other games for Rare it would be an insane difference. Something like going from 20 games down to 2.
 
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Assaulty

Member
I feel like the fact that they've only shown the next 12 months is why people think of this show as "less spectacular" than earlier shows rather than it's a gamepass problem. Last couple of years we've seen CGI trailers of games that are probably 2024 releases if not later.

To me, the conference was pretty boring. But thinking about it, there are, in the coming months, loads of games coming that I am going to be checking out "for free" with gamepass. Games I would have never tried otherwise. Guardians of the Galaxy turned out to be the best single player game i've played in years. I am really looking forward to Plague tale 2, Scorn, Atomic Heart, finally getting to play Persona 5 and replay 3 and 4, the new team ninja game and loads of other games I would have never bought for full price, and that's only this year.

I can't wait for Redfall and Starfield.

I personally do think tho that the following setup would've been great:

First show: show off all the triple A games like Avowed, Hellblade, etc. even if it means its a bit far out
second show: the show we've got today. Show everything we get to play in the coming months.

I think the show would've been received better in that kind of format.
 
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You call it bad management but I call it maximising profit. What incentive is there to release big budget games frequently/timely on a service where people are ok remaining subscribed without them?

This also has an effect on a studio output internally. Does Ninja Theory need to release Hellblade now to remain afloat? There is no studio pressure to get sales since internally it doesn't matter. They get a split of that $180 per year between them regardless. Why not prolong release and keep as few people on a project as possible? It would be beneficial to the studio/IP and to MS.

MS are more concerned about IP/audience hunting, the talent hunt is secondary because keeping some big highly paid talent for long periods isn't good for gamepass' bottom line. you're not competing internally for sales. As long as the game is good enough for people to remain subbed you're ok and people seem fine with it so far. Does huge budget games released back to back that people play for a week benefit you if people are subbed regardless or does some lower cost games/live service games? Some people will never admit this but that's where xbox is at right now and Sony will be too soon enough.
All that typing to tell me that you're fine waiting 2 years between major platform holder releases, as if they spent untold billions acquiring these studios in order for them to NOT launch games on a regular basis. Ok, now we've come full circle in the coping stage.
 

recykle

Neo Member
People got to stop lying to themselves and trying to convince people that GP is bad for MS and gamers that are enjoying the insane service simply, because they don't have access to it or aren't subscribed to it.

How anyone can watch the showcase yesterday and have any issue with GP and MS is beyond me. I get it the majority of people moaning and driving this narrative are hardcore Sony fans that are still salty about such a service existing and Sony not having a competitive service, but its been 5 years now and people are still posting the same exact tired and useless arguments when GP is clearly only growing and getting stronger each year.
 

shaddam

Member
I wonder how this thread will age in a few years. I think big AAA games shouldn't be on subsciption on day 1, but after 1-2 year its ok. Quality >quantity
 

Three

Member
All that typing to tell me that you're fine waiting 2 years between major platform holder releases, as if they spent untold billions acquiring these studios in order for them to NOT launch games on a regular basis. Ok, now we've come full circle in the coping stage.
I'm not coping with anything. I'm not fine with it. I'm saying it's not a management issue but good management doing what's best for their bottom line because it doesn't affect them with a sub if they have those long droughts of no major releases.
 
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Boss Mog

Member
No Gamepass is a plus for MS, it's, at least for now, a superior service to the new PS+ from a consumer point of view; you just get more for your money. MS also let's you play your OG XBOX and 360 discs on Series X rather than having to rebuy, subscribe or (*gasp*) stream them on PlayStation, that's another big win. I hope Sony will at the very least allow PS1 and PS2 discs to be played at some point; but there's no reason the PS5 couldn't emulate the PS3 too; it's powerful enough.

The problem for MS is that despite supposedly having the superior hardware on paper, their first party efforts are no where near looking as good as Sony's. Starfield made this even more evident yesterday. The game looked far worse than Horizon Forbidden West while at the same time running at an abysmal framerate with sub 30fps stutters visible throughout the gameplay and particularly in combat scenes. Horizon on the other hand looks gorgeous and manages to run at a stable 60fps in performance mode.
 

N30RYU

Member
at some point in the show i said... this game is the perfect example why a dev won't put more money and effort around the edges to turn a decent game into a great one if they aten't gona see cash in return
 

Zeroing

Banned
Yes and no,

Yes because right now seems a good deal for us consumers - we do not know if that will change in the future.

no, because it is changing gaming buying habits and I’ll focus on only one aspect - creativity and the stagnation of the gaming industry.

all that money could be used on opening new studios directed to younger people fresh from university thus fueling innovation!

People fresh from university have great ideas and their creativity is crushed by going to studios where they have no option other than to work on old tired franchises.

Back to yes! Throwing money at what some people think it’s worth of being on gamepass makes it less risk to devs and they can produce games without having to compromise!


Anyway every action has consequences, some short term other long term. We do not know because gamepass is something new in the gaming industry!

But let’s not be so naive to think it will only be positive
 

kyussman

Member
There wasn't much there to interest me.....but I'm not going to directly blame Xbox for that.What I'm seeing is the creep of Fortnite influence everywhere in smaller titles and there were a lot of those in the showcase.....that's not Phil Spencers fault it's just the current trend.
 

anthony2690

Member
Is this a joke thread?
The show was great, pretty much everyone I know that has an Xbox and game pass that watched the show, think it was one of the best shows.

As pretty much every game was coming to game pass, it was all gameplay (minus ark 2 & one or two other games) and all games coming within the next twelve months.

I'm starting to think people here just don't like video games and just like being miserable and moaning about everything.
 
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JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
People got to stop lying to themselves and trying to convince people that GP is bad for MS and gamers that are enjoying the insane service simply, because they don't have access to it or aren't subscribed to it.

How anyone can watch the showcase yesterday and have any issue with GP and MS is beyond me. I get it the majority of people moaning and driving this narrative are hardcore Sony fans that are still salty about such a service existing and Sony not having a competitive service, but its been 5 years now and people are still posting the same exact tired and useless arguments when GP is clearly only growing and getting stronger each year.
I have owned both systems for over 15 years. I have subscribed to Gamepass for over two years where I took advantage of the $1 conversion and stacked multiple years. The fact of the matter is I got far far far more enjoyment out my PS4/5 these last few years than I did out of my Xbox system. The Sony exclusives just completely outclassed anything MS had. That’s not to say I haven’t gotten any enjoyment out of my Xbox. I played far more 3rd party games on Xbox than PS. Most recently being Elden Ring after I finished Horizon Forbidden West! Far from it, but not once was I ever salty at Sony for that. The only Gamepass games I played a ton on Xbox we’re the Outer Worlds and Gears 5. Everything else I played on Xbox wasn’t on Gamepass. I’ll be honest I have very real concerns about the long term viability of Gamepass. However I won’t argue that it provides killer value to someone who is new to gaming. You buy a subscription and boom you got tons of EA and Bethesda games.
 
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SkylineRKR

Member
They could do separate showings. 90 minutes is a bit long. Like the latest SoP, it was like 30 minutes? They showed RE4, Callisto, FFXVI and SF6.

This MS conference could be about Diablo, Forza, Starfield, Overwatch 2 and Redfall and then another show for smaller Gamepass games.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Stacking 3 years of GP using Brazilian Gold cards was just about the smartest gaming investment I've made in my life.
 

saintjules

Member
I know but their focal point and investments weren't centered around it like it is now, four years later.

Watching an Xbox Showcase now, I no longer expect any major third party AAA game reveals or any AAA third party full/timed exclusive games. For example, I thought maybe I could get Jedi Survivor gameplay today or maybe a Dragon's Dogma 2 reveal but nope. Can't expect reveals like these anymore.

E3 2018 showed me Dying Light 2, The Division 2 and DMC 5 reveals which was great because even though they're multi-platform, seeing them get revealed on the show made it better in general and for me personally.

2022 didn't give me anything new. No new game reveals for me at all. 2020 started this direction and it's pretty much all they'll be doing from this moment forward. It is what it is and I have learned my lesson. My confidence, hype and excitement for Xbox right now is pretty much gone. At this point, whatever they do, they do.

This is exactly how I felt after watching the showcase. Perhaps it's not their direction or they're just incapable of making games to the AAA level Sony has been producing. It's fine. Not everyone can deliver games the same.

I'm fine with what they're doing with Game Pass. If they get their big games, they get them. If not, no problem. It's good when you have both Consoles. Best of both worlds.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
They could do separate showings. 90 minutes is a bit long. Like the latest SoP, it was like 30 minutes? They showed RE4, Callisto, FFXVI and SF6.

This MS conference could be about Diablo, Forza, Starfield, Overwatch 2 and Redfall and then another show for smaller Gamepass games.
I like this. I do think MS would be better showed to separate the show into various parts.
 

Three

Member
Yes and no,

Yes because right now seems a good deal for us consumers - we do not know if that will change in the future.

no, because it is changing gaming buying habits and I’ll focus on only one aspect - creativity and the stagnation of the gaming industry.

all that money could be used on opening new studios directed to younger people fresh from university thus fueling innovation!

People fresh from university have great ideas and their creativity is crushed by going to studios where they have no option other than to work on old tired franchises.

Back to yes! Throwing money at what some people think it’s worth of being on gamepass makes it less risk to devs and they can produce games without having to compromise!


Anyway every action has consequences, some short term other long term. We do not know because gamepass is something new in the gaming industry!

But let’s not be so naive to think it will only be positive
I think it's the opposite. That money is being given to small startup studios. The downside is that large high budget high production value games are declining.
 

Ellery

Member
Well it is something I have been fearing for some time, but it is way too early to tell. I usually use the analogy of an all you can eat buffet. The question is what quality do you expect the food to be?
And Microsoft also said that they are focused on AA games and gamepass and not the top tier dog games. Sadly the biggest game they have shown was a Bethesda game that was long in development before Microsoft acquired them.
But I say it is too early, because of Xbox only showing the next twelve months of gaming. No idea what they have planned for the years to come.

It is not doomsday yet. I agree that I expected a different show with a much bigger focus on going big, but we also haven't seen a big Nintendo or PlayStation show. Maybe later this year each of them have a show where they focus on the big ones and the future of gaming. Sony definitely needs one, Xbox should really show what their other projects look like that are further out and Nintendo also have a lot down the pipeline that we want to see.

In the end if gaming is a hobby for you where it is vital to spend as little as possible then gamepass is great. You might not get a Zelda, Mario, Last of Us, God of War or Uncharted quality game, but you have more decent games on gamepass than you have time anyway.

I will reserve judgement for later this year when I expect to see the actual bombs that they might've been holding close to their chest. It actually was weird that they had Kojima there even though the focus of the show were games that are less than 12 months out.
 

FunkMiller

Member
GamePass is why I bought a Series X, and very much looking forward to playing a lot of games I probably otherwise wouldn’t.

I wouldn’t have bought one for any specific games. YMMV as to whether you think this is a problem for MS going forward or not.

They don’t have the first party that Sony have, but they do have Gamepass.
 
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JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
This is exactly how I felt after watching the showcase. Perhaps it's not their direction or they're just incapable of making games to the AAA level Sony has been producing. It's fine. Not everyone can deliver games the same.

I'm fine with what they're doing with Game Pass. If they get their big games, they get them. If not, no problem. It's good when you have both Consoles. Best of both worlds.
Everybody reading this thread thinks I hate Xbox not true. I’m disappointed with their first party output over the last couple of years, but the Xbox Series X is actually an outstanding piece of hardware and is where I do most 3rd party games. I’ve used a ton of PC Gamepass.
 

Zeroing

Banned
I think it's the opposite. That money is being given to small startup studios. The downside is that large high budget high production value games are declining.
That is true but they are cherry picking what they want! Mistakes are made! Not the first time MS didn’t accept a game that turned out to be a success!

Value given to triple A games have been declining everywhere and let’s face it, historically MS never bet on new big IPs.
 

DavidGzz

Member
We are so spoiled as gamers in this day and age. We are getting this list of games on a cheap subscription service in the next year and people are complaining. My sub is paid up until 2024 so I'll be eating good without spending a penny on these. It's insane.

  • Naraka: Bladepoint (Game Pass)
  • As Dusk Falls (Game Pass)
  • Somerville (Game Pass)
  • A Plague Tale: Requiem (Game Pass)
  • Valheim (Game Pass)
  • Warhammer 40K Darktide (Game Pass)
  • Grounded (Game Pass)
  • Fallout 76: The Pitt (Game Pass)
  • Overwatch 2 (Most likely on Game Pass)
  • High On Life (Game Pass)
  • Scorn (Game Pass)
  • Atomic Heart (Game Pass)
  • Gunfire Reborn (Game Pass)
  • Persona 5 Royal (Game Pass)
  • Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II
  • Pentiment (Game Pass)
  • Halo Infinite: Season 3 (Game Pass)
  • Microsoft Flight Simulator: 40th Anniversary Edition (Game Pass)
  • Party Animals (Game Pass)
  • Slime Rancher 2 (Game Pass)
And here’s the list for 2023:

  • Diablo IV(Most likely Game Pass)
  • Redfall (Game Pass)
  • Starfield (Game Pass)
  • Forza Motorsport (Game Pass)
  • Minecraft Legends (Game Pass)
  • Ara: History Untold (Game Pass)
  • Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty (Game Pass)
  • S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 (Game Pass)
  • Flintlock (Game Pass)
  • Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes (Game Pass)
  • League of Legends (Game Pass)
  • League of Legends: Wild Rift (Game Pass)
  • Valorant (Game Pass)
  • Teamfight Tactics (Game Pass)
  • Legends of Runeterra (Game Pass)
  • Ark 2 (Game Pass)
  • Persona 3 Portable (Game Pass)
  • Persona 4 Golden (Game Pass)
  • Replaced (Game Pass)
  • Ereban: Shadow Legacy (Game Pass)
  • Ravenlok (Game Pass)
  • The Last Case of Benedict Fox (Game Pass)
  • Cocoon (Game Pass)
 

Laptop1991

Member
As a pc gamer who doesn't use gamepass my opinion is yes it is a bit, there needs to be more AAA on it, but the cost of triple a games and the cheap service that GP is might put off publishers from spending too much
 

Banjo64

Gold Member
I have owned both systems for over 15 years. I have subscribed to Gamepass for over two years where I took advantage of the $1 conversion and stacked multiple years. The fact of the matter is I got far far far more enjoyment out my PS4/5 these last few years than I did out of my Xbox system. The Sony exclusives just completely outclassed anything MS had. That’s not to say I haven’t gotten any enjoyment out of my Xbox. I played far more 3rd party games on Xbox than PS. Most recently being Elden Ring after I finished Horizon Forbidden West! Far from it, but not once was I ever salty at Sony for that. The only Gamepass games I played a ton on Xbox we’re the Outer Worlds and Gears 5. Everything else I played on Xbox wasn’t on Gamepass. I’ll be honest I have very real concerns about the long term viability of Gamepass. However I won’t argue that it provides killer value to someone who is new to gaming. You buy a subscription and boom you got tons of EA and Bethesda games.
I too have owned every system since the seventh generation of consoles.

I get where you are coming from.

I’m not a teenager or in my early twenties any more. I don’t have 10 hours a day to game. I have to be selective about what I play.

I’m trying to be fair here but I’d say 80% of the games yesterday looked bargain bin tier. If Game Pass didn’t exist and I had to pay for those games, I wouldn’t. There’s better stuff out there to spend my limited time playing. I probably only complete 2-3 games per year if that and I’m happy to just buy those games outright.

Game Pass to me is only going to be worthwhile for one month at a time when their big games eventually drop. Starfield, Avowed, Fable, Perfect Dark. I will sub, complete and then let the sub lapse. I’m not seeing the value in between tentpole releases.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
I like gamepass a lot but i'm that guy wanting to play RE4, SF6, Callisto, Dead Space R, FFXVI the most and at day one.

Though TMNT will hit GP this week, so its all good. Those smaller games do add up if you buy them constantly. Won't have to buy Hollow Knight either. And Wo Long. And ofcourse Starfield and Forza. So even if you only like, say, 4 games, GP is a good deal. Starfield and Forza alone would set you back 140-150 euros already. Which is the price of GP without the cheap trick.
 

wolffy71

Member
Those games are going to gamepass. Of course should have been at the event. They expect that much. Theres no reason to think its just for AAA.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
All that typing to tell me that you're fine waiting 2 years between major platform holder releases, as if they spent untold billions acquiring these studios in order for them to NOT launch games on a regular basis. Ok, now we've come full circle in the coping stage.
You mean you've never heard of a company being in the business of making games decide that NOT releasing games is maximizing profit?! Man, maybe Sony should adopt a similar strategy of not releasing their games.
 

Aure

Member
I prefer to own the game, but GP has helped me save a lot of money and it offers a wide range of games and day one releases, so i'm glad it's working out for them.
No, i don't think it's hurting them at all.
 
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JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I too have owned every system since the seventh generation of consoles.

I get where you are coming from.

I’m not a teenager or in my early twenties any more. I don’t have 10 hours a day to game. I have to be selective about what I play.

I’m trying to be fair here but I’d say 80% of the games yesterday looked bargain bin tier. If Game Pass didn’t exist and I had to pay for those games, I wouldn’t. There’s better stuff out there to spend my limited time playing. I probably only complete 2-3 games per year if that and I’m happy to just buy those games outright.

Game Pass to me is only going to be worthwhile for one month at a time when their big games eventually drop. Starfield, Avowed, Fable, Perfect Dark. I will sub, complete and then let the sub lapse. I’m not seeing the value in between tentpole releases.
Call me selfish or whatever, I simply have ZERO interest in most indie games. I especially hate sidescrollers. I love my AAA games like Elden Ring, Horizon FOrbidden West and yes I even liked Halo.

My best use of Gamepass has actually come from PC Gamepass, where I have played games on PC and earned achievements. Almost all recent Bethesda games on PC Gamepass have achievements. GREAT fun for those boosting gamerscore. Man I loved it. I wish Doom 2016 would come to PC Gamepass!

My main concern about Gamepass is whether it is sustainable long term. With inflation and far so many subscription services and we are now in an era where people are cancelling subscription services (see Netflix) as opposed to pay and forget. MS has to be very careful how much money they sink into it. The shareholders are going to demand a return on investment. If Gamepass does not bring in the dough to be sustainable/profitable there will be drastic cutbacks, where we get unfinished, cookie cutter games that are developed on the cheap with emphasis on COOP. That is a VERY bad place for the industry to be in.

MS needs people to stay subscribed at $15 a month, $180 a year. I'd like to see MS offer a 1 year option for like $99. If they did that, then I'd stay on. easily.
 
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Pelta88

Member
GP is hurting gaming in general.

MS wants XB to focus on streaming. AAA bangers lose fidelity when streamed so they've lowered the games graphically to have that what I can only describe as that "fortnite look."

games that are visually unimpressive. But stream well. That's what I took from the showcase, lower graphic fidelity. Forza looked gorgeous obviously but besides that, I saw 90 minutes of games that don't impress me visually. And that's just my personal take.
 

Snake29

Banned
Maybe they should spread these 90min full of trailers over the year, so that every game gets more attention. I bet most people already forgot 95% of the games because everyone was focused on Starfield mostly.

Also it was a lot of multiplatform and timed exclusives. Starfield can have it's own showcase and all these smaller titles can be spread over the year.
 
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