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I'm not so sure the PSVR 2 will succeed, and may fall short like the first one. (PSVR2+PS5 may potentially cost $1,040 with two games)

Ozriel

Member
With Sony's new push into PC gaming, you'd think they would just make a PC compatible PSVR that would work on PS5's and PC's, but they are going for a closed garden strategy again.

This is very unlikely.
Thanks to the standard USB-C cable and inside-out tracking, it won’t be too difficult for folks to get it working with SteamVR. Sony will stay ahead of this by providing native support for PC.

This also gives them significant opportunities for revenue on PC.
 

Crayon

Member
What
This is very unlikely.
Thanks to the standard USB-C cable and inside-out tracking, it won’t be too difficult for folks to get it working with SteamVR. Sony will stay ahead of this by providing native support for PC.

This also gives them significant opportunities for revenue on PC.

My bet would be no official pc support, but they won't go too hard trying to stop it.
 

Ozriel

Member
What


My bet would be no official pc support, but they won't go too hard trying to stop it.

Sony is bringing their games to PC. Why would they make an exception for VR games?

They’re also going to be trying to be the de facto PC headsets. Because if they don’t and Valve’s stand-alone PCVR Deckard headset comes out, it could reduce their prospects.
 

soulbait

Member
Posts like this always make me laugh. Why are so concerned about their business decisions? Are you a major stock holder or something? So much concern about something that does not really impact your life.

If you want PSVR2 buy it and enjoy it. If not, then don't. In the end the market will decide if it is a product that will go on in the long run. Why be so concerned with it coming out, with just a bunch of assumptions on how it impacts the business?
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
I think the experience and software will drive some sales, in the range of 4-6 million but it's just not going to go beyond that. And maybe Sony doesn't care, it keeps thier toes in the water for future vr which eventually, once improved, will find a bigger market. But headsets need finer resolution, need to be lighter, and the software needs to be better for it to truly take off.
 

Crayon

Member
Sony is bringing their games to PC. Why would they make an exception for VR games?

They’re also going to be trying to be the de facto PC headsets. Because if they don’t and Valve’s stand-alone PCVR Deckard headset comes out, it could reduce their prospects.

That's true, they do have an opening to be the best/$ pc headset. Seems like it would be a b to support, tho. I'm also assuming the profit margin would be low, making it tough to justify.

But yeah it might be a big deal to be the best headset for pc. They again the Rift S was a great deal and similarly modern at the time of release and they gave up on that. I suppose I still think they will go for unofficial support only. That seems like the middle way.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Thanks to the standard USB-C cable and inside-out tracking, it won’t be too difficult for folks to get it working with SteamVR.
Inside-out does not automatically mean 'implemented on-board the HMD as blackbox sensor-output'. The latter would require an on-board chipset with some non-trivial amount of compute resources, which no tethered headset did before. It might be an efficiency boost to do it on-board, but people keep crying about costs of this thing and this would only inflate it further.
That said - I do agree it'd make sense for Sony to officially support this one, given their running strategy. We'll see I guess.

Quest 2 was not telegraphed to help move software that well or to sell as many units as it has.
I never said it has - I said Beat Saber was the system seller and telegraphed to be one.
Anyway I guess we'll have to wait and see how things evolve - especially now that it's gone up in price and all.
 

Ozriel

Member
Inside-out does not automatically mean 'implemented on-board the HMD as blackbox sensor-output'. The latter would require an on-board chipset with some non-trivial amount of compute resources, which no tethered headset did before. It might be an efficiency boost to do it on-board, but people keep crying about costs of this thing and this would only inflate it further.
That said - I do agree it'd make sense for Sony to officially support this one, given their running strategy. We'll see I guess.

I understand. What I imagine is that inside out means it doesn’t need any external proprietary hardware and should ideally make it easier to translate to PCVR.

But I don’t claim to be an expert 😀
 
All I see is that these prices you are listing are still cheaper then buying a pc and vr set capable of the same performance.

You only need a premium toaster at minimum to use Quest 2, or cheaper older powerful VR headsets. There's a reason why the Quest 2 is selling so well.

To be a success it needs to do better than psvr 1 because no dev will put any effort into games that require better graphics than a ps4 and increased dev time for less return.

This is the problem, prices for smaller or indie devs are one thing, but regardless of a developers status or revenue, you are now taking a risk to develop games for a successor to a platform that had poor software sales and was used y only 4.5% of a userbase of 117 million.

The question becomes how much man power, money, marketing, and outsourcing are you going to put in a AAA, or even a AA VR game? if the developer already knows that the chance of selling a large number of copies on PSVR 2 alone is low, that there's a fair chance that even a smaller percentage of the userbase will even use it, than why would you do anything more than games that wouldn't be out of place on Steam greenlight?

Sony would have to show developers with their internal studios what kind of games they could make with PSVR 2, that games can sell a lot of copies, and that more users will adopt it than PSVR 1. But to do this, they would have to allocate a lot of resources to VR which would harm their traditional PS5 game output.

Sony is bringing their games to PC. Why would they make an exception for VR games?

They’re also going to be trying to be the de facto PC headsets. Because if they don’t and Valve’s stand-alone PCVR Deckard headset comes out, it could reduce their prospects.

The whole battle cry of the PS4 Pro along with PSVR 1 was to fight against PC according to multiple Sony staff including Andrew house. The idea was to keep and attract new people to the PS ecosystem because back in 2016 VR was not affordable unless you had a powerful rig that the average household did not own. VR then was donated by putting your smartphone in a helmet, so Sony wanted to position PSVR 1 as a cheaper option and another reason to own a PS4 over a PC, and with a new upgraded PS4 to buy with that VR solution.

I know Jim Ryan and his cohorts are a lot more open than old Sony leadership but i'm not sure he's going to be THAT open.
 

Ozriel

Member
The whole battle cry of the PS4 Pro along with PSVR 1 was to fight against PC according to multiple Sony staff including Andrew house. The idea was to keep and attract new people to the PS ecosystem because back in 2016 VR was not affordable unless you had a powerful rig that the average household did not own. VR then was donated by putting your smartphone in a helmet, so Sony wanted to position PSVR 1 as a cheaper option and another reason to own a PS4 over a PC, and with a new upgraded PS4 to buy with that VR solution.

I know Jim Ryan and his cohorts are a lot more open than old Sony leadership but i'm not sure he's going to be THAT open.

And Sony first party games were supposed to be permanent exclusives to bring people to their console ecosystem.

Things change. And Sony says they want to make $15billion revenue from PC games in 2025. You really think that goal is compatible with the old ways?
 

Crayon

Member
You only need a premium toaster at minimum to use Quest 2, or cheaper older powerful VR headsets. There's a reason why the Quest 2 is selling so well.

Add that 10tf premium toaster and two games to the cost of the quest. You are stacking the deck, here.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
I understand. What I imagine is that inside out means it doesn’t need any external proprietary hardware and should ideally make it easier to translate to PCVR.
That part is true - but the big problem is usually the software.
PSVR works on PC perfectly fine, only camera needed an adapter after all, and other cameras 'could' work for the same purpose. But the 'drivers' were never adequately implemented, so it's a bit - wonky.
If Sony doesn't do it themselves - someone will have to reverse engineer the sensor fusion of this headsets particular camera, gyros and other sensor inputs to make tracking work (alongside having to reverse engineer the lens-distortion for correct rendering, and possibly eye-tracking drivers for really taking advantage of the thing).

The question becomes how much man power, money, marketing, and outsourcing are you going to put in a AAA, or even a AA VR game?
That problem has existed in 'nu-VR' for its entire duration to-date. You just don't work with budgets comparable to normal 'flat' medium, unless you build one game for both.
Given 2 such hybrids are in the top 5 most popular PSVR titles to date, and PSVR2 makes this approach possible 'for free'(without fidelity compromises on modern titles), they'll likely double down on the concept. Time/markets will tell if it's a viable strategy.

The whole battle cry of the PS4 Pro along with PSVR 1 was to fight against PC according to multiple Sony staff including Andrew house.
Pro yes, PSVR not really. They even stated on record that they weren't looking to market-lead with the platform and were uncomfortable being in that position (at that time, PSVR was outselling the rest of PCVR headsets combined by over 2:1). But I guess they got their wish, back to being the underdog now.
 
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drive off 50 cent GIF
 
And Sony first party games were supposed to be permanent exclusives to bring people to their console ecosystem.

Things change. And Sony says they want to make $15billion revenue from PC games in 2025. You really think that goal is compatible with the old ways?

Sony hardware compatible with PC is different from porting a game to PC form the PS5 months after release.

Add that 10tf premium toaster and two games to the cost of the quest. You are stacking the deck, here.

People already have toasters, that's why the Quest is selling well, anyone with a computer that has better than a Celeron N4020 can use it. You can even get them new at dealers for as low as $200, $150 during the holidays. Completely different from spending $500 and then another $400(or $500) on PSVR2 before getting any games.

With the Quest 2, which has cheaper games, that's not even $600, but most people already have the bare minimum desktop or laptop at home, so all they need to buy is the $349 Quest 2 headset.

Pro yes, PSVR not really. They even stated on record that they weren't looking to market-lead with the platform and were uncomfortable being in that position (at that time, PSVR was outselling the rest of PCVR headsets combined by over 2:1). But I guess they got their wish, back to being the underdog now.

They flip flopped a lot. They tied PSVR to the PS4 Pro when the latter was revealed. Before that, they tied it to the PS4 Slim, with an intention to use it for market share.

There goal with PSVR 2 is a bit unclear and there's some mixed messaging going on with the Sony reps that speak on it.
 

Crayon

Member
Sony hardware compatible with PC is different from porting a game to PC form the PS5 months after release.



People already have toasters, that's why the Quest is selling well, anyone with a computer that has better than a Celeron N4020 can use it. You can even get them new at dealers for as low as $200, $150 during the holidays. Completely different from spending $500 and then another $400(or $500) on PSVR2 before getting any games.

With the Quest 2, which has cheaper games, that's not even $600, but most people already have the bare minimum desktop or laptop at home, so all they need to buy is the $349 Quest 2 headset.

Nah. give me the toaster that's comparable performance to the $400 ps5. And then let's get the retail price is for the same games and see how those shake out.

You see, you are highballing all the psvr stuff, and lowballing all the quest stuff.
 

I_D

Member
I've been holding off on VR until the specs get good enough to warrant the purchase. The PSVR2's specs look like they're finally good enough.

The price needs to be right, though.
And it needs to support PC usage.


If it supports the PC, the price won't matter as much. The chances of success are much higher.
If it does not support PC, it better be under $400 or it will crash and burn (and I don't see how it could possibly be under $400).
 
So given that the PSVR 2 is not compatible with pSVR1 games (the opposite direction of their competitors) https://www.engadget.com/psvr-games-compatible-with-psvr-2-sony-virtual-reality-183519384.html

and reports it will be $499 or possibly higher, I think it's time to consider the fact that the PSVR2 will not be selling as well as the PSVR1.

You have $500 Sony with no price drop in US a higher price recently everywhere else, and expensive headset that may at minimum, cost $499, and you have no access to PSVR1 games if you were dedicated to the device and put investment into it. There's no carrying your games over, Sony is basically cutting off PSVR1 with PSVR2.

I just don't see how this thig can even sell 2.5 million let alone 5 million like the PSVR1. Sony is also moving studios over to make games for it, or having at least some of their studios resources put into it, which could result in more Driveclub VR's and studio shakeups.

It feels like PSVR2 is Sony's Kinect 2.0, but at least Don cut support and winded that down quickly, I believe Sony will take a couple years to realize their mistake or more.
 

Crayon

Member
So given that the PSVR 2 is not compatible with pSVR1 games (the opposite direction of their competitors) https://www.engadget.com/psvr-games-compatible-with-psvr-2-sony-virtual-reality-183519384.html

and reports it will be $499 or possibly higher, I think it's time to consider the fact that the PSVR2 will not be selling as well as the PSVR1.

You have $500 Sony with no price drop in US a higher price recently everywhere else, and expensive headset that may at minimum, cost $499, and you have no access to PSVR1 games if you were dedicated to the device and put investment into it. There's no carrying your games over, Sony is basically cutting off PSVR1 with PSVR2.

I just don't see how this thig can even sell 2.5 million let alone 5 million like the PSVR1. Sony is also moving studios over to make games for it, or having at least some of their studios resources put into it, which could result in more Driveclub VR's and studio shakeups.

It feels like PSVR2 is Sony's Kinect 2.0, but at least Don cut support and winded that down quickly, I believe Sony will take a couple years to realize their mistake or more.

Got a regular Michael Pachter over here.
 

Ozzie666

Member
No Half-life Alyx (yet).
No backward compatibility.
No Tetris.
No Rez.
No Beat Sabre.
Or I will have to buy again when companies re-release.

I have zero confidence in the product and expect Sony to drop it like the Vita, when sales don't meet expectations. I think it will sell about the same but be overall be dropped like VR1 was ultimately. Is Sony going to rely on third-party software?

Where is the avalanche of compelling software, still waiting. I want to believe; I enjoyed the first experience enough.
 
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Fbh

Gold Member
The timing is definitely unfortunate.
Supply chain problems are still making it hard to get the console in many places, and soaring inflation almost everywhere in the world is forcing people to tighten their budget.

Not exactly the best scenario to release a $500 accessory
 

drezz

Member
So ... any PSVR1 game still CAN work on PSVR2 if the devs/pubs still have the time too run a patch for the game too run.
But they will have to be for each and every game.
And If they do.. hopefully they dont charge for it.
I'd be fine with a patch that just enables you too play the game as is... not expecting haptic feedback and such, But at least to have it run from start too finish.

As for the people talking about "cross gen" ... Most of the 20 "launch games" on PSVR2 launch will be cross gen from 2016>2022.
And will continue to do so for most of PSVR2's Life.
Quest 2 games will be first and then ported over too PSVR2; giving us the same crossgen headache we already have with ps4/ps5, mostly Sony will give us next gen VR games and a few PCVR games that potentially be ported over.. unless the devs/pubs are gone or not interested.
Such as HL:Alyx and Medal of Honor.
 

Crayon

Member
Wikipedia reports 670 games for psvr1. 5% of that would be 33. What are the top 33 psvr games? I'm not sure you could fill that without scraping the barrell. I would guess the list is pretty strong through the first 10 and respectable through the next 10.

*google google goolge*

Nope, I'm wrong lol. Theres a fuck ton of bangers on there. There's no way all of them are going to ger updated. At least the upshot is there will be more good ones coming over than I though.
 

Hawk269

Member
IKR, I keep hearing this alyx to PS thing but I fail to see Valve's motivation or what they are getting in return lol
You mean outside of the fact that it would most likely be the best selling PSVR2 game? Because that is what would happen. Valve sold a shit load of the game to PC users, but it has been some time when it came out and of course it slowed down in sales. Bringing the game to PSVR2 would make it a "killer app" for the headset and imho would be the best selling game on the device. That is a lot of money to Valve for basically "porting" the game to PSVR2.
 

Hawk269

Member
So ... any PSVR1 game still CAN work on PSVR2 if the devs/pubs still have the time too run a patch for the game too run.
But they will have to be for each and every game.
And If they do.. hopefully they dont charge for it.
I'd be fine with a patch that just enables you too play the game as is... not expecting haptic feedback and such, But at least to have it run from start too finish.

As for the people talking about "cross gen" ... Most of the 20 "launch games" on PSVR2 launch will be cross gen from 2016>2022.
And will continue to do so for most of PSVR2's Life.
Quest 2 games will be first and then ported over too PSVR2; giving us the same crossgen headache we already have with ps4/ps5, mostly Sony will give us next gen VR games and a few PCVR games that potentially be ported over.. unless the devs/pubs are gone or not interested.
Such as HL:Alyx and Medal of Honor.
As someone mentioned in one of the other PSVR2 threads, PSVR games used the move controllers, the light sensor on the PS4 controller and the camera, which PSVR2 does not need. It would not be a "simple" patch to make it work on PSVR2, they would have to do a lot of work and change UI and how it communicates with the controllers since it is totally different than the Move controllers. I made a comment in another thread that any patches/updates that Devs are working on, imho are not going to be free unless Sony is fully funding all that development cost and going to pass that onto consumers for free....this is Sony we are talking about, they are not going to give current PSVR1 game owners free updates to their games so they can work on the PSVR2. This is the same Sony passing on costs of manufacturing of PS5 units onto consumers here.
 

hlm666

Member
I'm not sure the inital run of 1.5 million units says they think the uptake will be better with ps5 than it was with ps4. I remember comments around here saying steamdeck was dead or no one wants it with similar production numbers. Be interesting if we get Quest pro and Pico neo supply/sale numbers later this year. Sony need to push proper full AAA games, RE8 looks amazing on psvr2 but their own horizon game looks pretty generic as far as VR goes.
 

drezz

Member
As someone mentioned in one of the other PSVR2 threads, PSVR games used the move controllers, the light sensor on the PS4 controller and the camera, which PSVR2 does not need. It would not be a "simple" patch to make it work on PSVR2, they would have to do a lot of work and change UI and how it communicates with the controllers since it is totally different than the Move controllers. I made a comment in another thread that any patches/updates that Devs are working on, imho are not going to be free unless Sony is fully funding all that development cost and going to pass that onto consumers for free....this is Sony we are talking about, they are not going to give current PSVR1 game owners free updates to their games so they can work on the PSVR2. This is the same Sony passing on costs of manufacturing of PS5 units onto consumers here.
I never said it would be "Simple" and my statement still stand, its very doable. Up-rezing, increasing the FPS removing the LOD cap and other QoL treatments too be added to make the game BETTER then the PSVR1 version.
Doing this cost money yes, and passing it on to the consumer that already has bought the game is IMO shitty.
The benefits of doing a patch like this: REACHING A NEW GEN OF VR USERS ON PSVR2 THAT WILL OUTSELL THE PSVR1.

Game is done, needs a patch to run... and I would be more then happy enough for JUST a patch to have it run.

Re-releasing it as a Remaster will be very salty for owners that supported the games.
And a "remaster" is going to be put under a scope of scrutiny for WAY MORE enhancements then a BC patch ever would.

My guess is some will do a full remaster, some will do a upgrade BC path like PS4>PS5 did, and some will do a free BC patch.
 
I'm not sure the inital run of 1.5 million units says they think the uptake will be better with ps5 than it was with ps4. I remember comments around here saying steamdeck was dead or no one wants it with similar production numbers. Be interesting if we get Quest pro and Pico neo supply/sale numbers later this year. Sony need to push proper full AAA games, RE8 looks amazing on psvr2 but their own horizon game looks pretty generic as far as VR goes.

How the hell does horizon look generic? It’s been getting non-stop praise from people who are actually playing it. What else in the VR space looks that good and has that level of scale aside from Alyx?

 
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ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
IKR, I keep hearing this alyx to PS thing but I fail to see Valve's motivation or what they are getting in return lol

Haven't you heard? Valve is fine releasing games on console so Alyx is a lock. Many people here and insiders say so. Its an open secret.
 
Haven't you heard? Valve is fine releasing games on console so Alyx is a lock. Many people here and insiders say so. Its an open secret.

Outside DOTA, Alyx might be the only game they haven’t released for consoles, and for a very obvious reason. Theres nothing stopping them from porting it to PSVR2 at this point, it probably hit its sales saturation a while ago.

Also people think valve, sony, and facebook are in competition but its in all of their best interest for VR to be successful regardless of platform. They need people more invested in the platform and more devs making games for it. If sony fails facebook and valve have a harder time growing the market on their specific platforms and vice versa.
 
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Crayon

Member
All games will either
-free upgrade
-paid upgrade
-full rerelease
-left behind

If you don't understand it will be a mix of those options there is something wrong with you.
 

Deerock71

Member
I remember the fad that was 3D glasses combined with HDTVs. People that bought them thought it was the future. Now, let's see how that flies when we put an even BIGGER encumberance on your head.
Doc Brown GIF by Back to the Future Trilogy
 
PSVR1 games looked amazing as well until you actually saw it through the headset.

Tamoor Hussain from Gamespot said it looks really good while playing it. Let me not paraphrase

Sony has touted much higher visual fidelity for PSVR 2, which, for the tech-spec obsessed people out there, amounts to an OLED display that offers a resolution of 2000x2040 per eye, HDR, refresh rates of 90Hz and 120Hz, and a 110-degree field of view. This is all impressive on paper, but when you experience it with the headset on, it's a bit of magic.

The level of detail on display was genuinely overwhelming, mostly because I didn't expect it from a VR game. I know how dismissive that sounds of all the VR games out there, of which there are certainly more than a few impressive-looking ones. However, there's a clear line between the way a VR game and a non-VR game look--there's a level of richness, detail, and polish that separates the two. Horizon Call of the Mountain blurs that line on PSVR 2.

One of the major features that facilitates high-fidelity VR experiences such as Horizon Call of the Mountain is foveated rendering. This is a feature that is available on other devices, including Quest 2, but what makes PSVR 2's implementation different, according to Sony, is that it's coupled with eye-tracking. This means that the PS5 and PSVR 2 headset can focus on rendering where the player is looking in the highest quality while reducing the resolution and requisite processing power spent on everything in the periphery. As your eyes move around the screen, adjustments are made to ensure that wherever your focus is placed is always looking as good as it can. The end result of this is that games are significantly more detailed, and foveated rendering lets the PS5 do this without taking a hit in performance. It's an impressive bit of technology that invites developers to get more ambitious and affords them the runway to do it.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/p...-a-strong-reminder-of-vrs-magic/1100-6507473/
 
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op22

Member
It's an expensive product that can succeed only in countries with a middle class that can afford it. If the focus of Sony's marketing department is US/EU, then it will fail or be mildly successful. If it is released in China and India first, then Sony will become one of the most valuable companies in the world.
 
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It's an expensive product that can succeed only in countries with a middle class that can afford it. If the focus of Sony's marketing department is US/EU, then it will fail or be mildly successful. If it is released in China and India first, then Sony will become one of the most valuable companies in the world.


I feel liek almost everything they do now is centered around expanding into china and Korea. Look at their new Stellar Blade game, very Korean. The mobile and pc efforts are also very china focused.

Thats probably why they dont care about the scalping going on in japan.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
PSVR2 looks to bring it in line with decent PC VR, and like PC VR it will be a relatively small market. I think to really push there needs to some revolutionary killer app and it needs to be comfortable for more then 20 mins.
 

drezz

Member
It's an expensive product that can succeed only in countries with a middle class that can afford it. If the focus of Sony's marketing department is US/EU, then it will fail or be mildly successful. If it is released in China and India first, then Sony will become one of the most valuable companies in the world.
Hahaha what?
 

op22

Member
I feel liek almost everything they do now is centered around expanding into china and Korea. Look at their new Stellar Blade game, very Korean. The mobile and pc efforts are also very china focused.

Thats probably why they dont care about the scalping going on in japan.
Good for them. Every time I see a jaded gamer thread about gameplay or graphics stagnating since PS2, N64 or SNES I know this guy never tried Resident Evil 7 or Until Dawn in VR. It is absolutely no less jaw-dropping than seeing Mario 64 in 3D on CRT monitors.
 
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Closer

Member
All games will either
-free upgrade
-paid upgrade
-full rerelease
-left behind

If you don't understand it will be a mix of those options there is something wrong with you.

There are options other than those? They will either release or don't. Looks like a bunch of words to say nothing, imo. Almost like the "Sony devs are working on game" insider scoop thread we had.
 
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This product will sell out in no time because people want the latest and greatest. The valve/quest/whatever that launches after the PSVR2 will also sell out.

Sony took a huge risk by launching psvr on ps4, even having to go extreme lengths of having a break-out box. The PSVR, even though the headset was average at best when it launched, has sold very well, had some big hits and highly rated VR games on there. Hitman 3 is a bit of magic.

We have the most powerful headset on the market, being powered by a next gen piece of kit designed for VR coming from a company that has shown that VR is a main priority for it. IF PSVR2 fails, the VR market fails.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
So with meta owning beat saber now, I guess there will be no update for that on psvr2 or any version coming out? Would suck to not have the most popular vr game on psvr2
 
So with meta owning beat saber now, I guess there will be no update for that on psvr2 or any version coming out? Would suck to not have the most popular vr game on psvr2
I think we will see it. That star wars game and the table top game (Deomeon or whatever) were quest games, right?

I think we're still early enough in the VR lifespan where everyone wants their game on every headset. Then when those games become massive and headset are mass-adopted, we will see exclusive content on headsets. Maybe Beatsabre 2/3/4 will be exclusive?
 
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