Is that T.O?
lol I was just thinking i've seen this picture many times and never noticed TO standing in the background.
Is that T.O?
No.Nothing strikes you as dissonant about this?
I'm not acting like that at all. I'm just going with what the society around me(here in the United States to be specific) identifies as 'masculine'.That's the whole point though.
Society's idea of masculinity has NOT always been what it is today, nor is it going to stay the same. In fact it's completely different in places around the world even today! Change doesn't just happen instantly, it happens because someone or some people think "hey, I don't like this, I'm going to change it."
So don't act like this idea of masculinity that you have is the one and only absolute definition, because it is most definitely not.
You're just putting words in my mouth and trying to set up a nice, convenient strawman there. What I've said is certainly more nuanced than that.You said that being gay is more feminine than being straight. So, yes, you did say all gays are always X.
No.
I'm not acting like that at all. I'm just going with what the society around me(here in the United States to be specific) identifies as 'masculine'.
Then why would being called gay or thought of as gay hurt your masculinity?You're just putting words in my mouth and trying to set up a nice, convenient strawman there. What I've said is certainly more nuanced than that.
EDIT: And sorry for the double-post(s?). Hard keeping up with multiple people.
I think the fact that this whole discourse is centered around the male perspective tells you that this is more about enforcing traditional male gender norms and concepts of masculinity than anything else. Why is it that women don't need to use the phrase but males do? No homo becomes a tool used to shame certain behavior as non masculine and gay, thus perpetuating notions that gay men are not really male or masculine, an implicitly negative and insulting concept.
The underlying issue regarding "no homo" as a pragmatic phrase has to do with much more than being a simple pejorative against gayfolk.
They are deconstructing the term.So is the Lonely Island song "No Homo" homophobic? Because I don't consider myself homophobic and it makes me laugh.
Yo, I've been thinking about fucking a dude (no homo)
And we are saying that living your life by trying to reach some inane level of masculinity & judging/evaluating others based on your own biased interpretation of masculinity is kinda sad. It's incredibly stupid to limit what you do and don't do based on what you view men should or should not do because certain things aren't deemed masculine, when you should understand that those limits are just a result of the community/culture you've been raised in and they, in fact, have ABSOLUTELY NO MEANING IN LIFE and you should just behave however the hell you want to behave and not let those things keep you from, say, hugging a really good male friend of yours without having to feel the least bit gay about it.No.
I'm not acting like that at all. I'm just going with what the society around me(here in the United States to be specific) identifies as 'masculine'.
This isn't about how I define myself, necessarily. I'm trying to discuss this in a much broader sense.Sean speed!, they are suggesting you define yourself by what makes you happy and comfortable, not by what society says must make you happy and comfortable.
I'm not saying that. I'm not saying your perception of 'masculinity' and 'femininity' is invalid at all. I'm just saying thats not how most people see it. For the sake of discussion, it would be terribly frustrating if we had to include each and every person's position that was different from society's in general. I'm not asking you to adopt society's view, either.Yes, you kind of are. You're saying that because my idea of masculinity doesn't align with your completely anecdotal perception of it, it's not valid to anyone but myself. Trust me, there are people out there that have even crazier ideas than I do. I also happen to live in the US and I happen to know quite a few people who feel the same way about this that I do. Just because you don't experience something yourself does not mean it doesn't exist or isn't valid.
That isn't really true. Lots of potentially offensive things slide.
The problem with "no homo" is more that saying it makes you sound like a dumb teenager.
I have read every single response to your original post and I don't see a one that mischaracterizes what you said as an attack of any kind.I'm happy to consider a lot of what I've heard and maybe some of you will have some understanding of what I was trying to say instead of just trying to interpret everything I was saying as some sort of attack.
I've gone over that already.Then why would being called gay or thought of as gay hurt your masculinity?
There doesn't necessarily have to be a 'need' to differentiate between masculine and feminine behavior/characteristics, but for as long as there are some notable differences in the way we tend to act and be, I see no reason to just ignore them.And we are saying that living your life by trying to reach some inane level of masculinity & judging/evaluating others based on your own biased interpretation of masculinity is kinda sad. It's incredibly stupid to limit what you do and don't do based on what you view men should or should not do because certain things aren't deemed masculine, when you should understand that those limits are just a result of the community/culture you've been raised in and they, in fact, have ABSOLUTELY NO MEANING IN LIFE and you should just behave however the hell you want to behave and not let those things keep you from, say, hugging a really good male friend of yours without having to feel the least bit gay about it.
And yes, the world WOULD be a much better place if we eliminated the need for the pursue of a culturally defined masculinity for men and feminacy for women. This doesn't mean women can't wear makeup or men can't watch sports & drink beer, just that other women wouldn't be judged for NOT wanting to wear makeup or men for not giving a flying shit about sports & drinking beer.
No it actually is factual, whereas the second part of your post is not. No one cares if you sound a teenager. It's the fact that the phrase is derogatory and should not be used. Once you finish high school you'll understand.
Why would Bish teach a class, with the intent to make students employable, but not call out ignorant actions which would be very counterproductive in many (not all, I suppose if the student wanted to work on Shadow Complex 2 it might be permissible) workplaces?
Is that an appropriate context to use said phrase?They are deconstructing the term.
That is almost explicitly what this thread is about.I think your 'better world' argument is more a problem of people being judgemental. We will always classify each other in different ways. We cant live in a 'label-less' society. That will never happen. And its not necessarily a bad thing. The problem comes from people needing to be more sympathetic and understanding of when people dont fit into these roughly defined categories. Thats something that perhaps can be changed.
I find ridiculousness to be a pretty solid justification for most things.Is that an appropriate context to use said phrase?
Is that an appropriate context to use said phrase?
Well because that would be fair.Why isn't there something like this for students too? So teachers could enter all the shitty students there as a wall of shame for the rest of their lives?
Sounds like you've never been around, say, investment bankers. If you get out more, you'll understand.
Well because that would be fair.
No. I think the embarrassment of being called out in front of the class regarding workplace professionalism was enough.
College-age, early to mid-20s. Graduate course in Game Design.
So they hand out derogatorily labelled chocolates around the office? I doubt that very much. Just quit now.
I totally interpreted this thread wrong.
I totally interpreted this thread wrong.
I thought you were implying that you smoked pot with your grad student, thus this indirectly encouraged him and made him think
it was ok to pass out marijuana chocolates to people in class and infuriated you.
You seriously got offended by "No homo"?
...cool story, bro.
So an over sensitive politically correct prof ruined a dumbass grad students day? Awesome. I'm so turned on right now. No homo.
Why can't I quit you, thread?
Well because that would be fair.
Off topic, and this is not intended as a gravestomping exercise, but I wonder about the awareness of some people who post in threads like this.
Are they aware that it was created by Bish? Do they know what the red name means? Have they read the FAQ board?
Don't knock it until you try it...Why would someone want to identify themselves as masculine anyway? I can't imagine how that's possible without coming across as a self-important, aggressive, humourless douchebag. Like the kind of person who finds bar fights rewarding.
So an over sensitive politically correct prof ruined a dumbass grad students day? Awesome. I'm so turned on right now. No homo.
LOLYes homo.
Not generally, in fact there is a large variance in the gay community just as there is in the straight community. You aren't gay because you identify with feminine traits more, you're gay because you're attracted to the same gender.
This realization usually doesn't send you skipping to the track-lighting store to buy George Michael CDs and pink mesh tops.
Edit:
FUCK I should have shoved some musical theater reference in there too
So you get to choose what masculinity means while we ignore what its generally meant for thousands of years? The definition of the word is basically just 'typical male characteristic'. Gay guys are a minority, so 'typical' in this case would generally be the penetrator, not a person getting fucked in the ass, as thats how the male/female relationship has worked for thousands of years. You cant just come along and change the definition because it suits you.
Really, the direction you're heading would basically mean a complete breakdown of any and all 'masculine' and 'feminine' characteristics.
You're just putting words in my mouth and trying to set up a nice, convenient strawman there. What I've said is certainly more nuanced than that.
EDIT: And sorry for the double-post(s?). Hard keeping up with multiple people.
If somebody thought I was gay, I would be a little offended. Not because being gay is 'ewww', but because its kind of saying, "Hey, you dont seem very masculine to me."
before i post in this thread i just wanna know...if i say i dont think "no homo" is offensive.. i will get banned?
please clarify this for me. thanks!