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[Eidan]

I played DD on hard on my first and only playthrough and I agree there's a pretty big difficulty gap in the middle of the game where pretty much everything is easy other than nights. The post game is like three times as hard however and definitely requires good mastery of the combat system.

And my experience with the game is that "mastery" is simply grinding.

Here's a good breakdown.

 

[pretty done]

I'm gonna reinstall for the third time and try to find out once again why people like this. I played the 2 handed warrior class because 2 handed is always boss, but there was no dodge. What the hell am I supposed to do to evade attacks, just sprint away?

 

[Sanctuary]

I think you're missing the point. It's based off of their D&D arcade games. The gameplay is instantly gratifying, and it's still not nearly as dull as most RPG systems when you factor in the feedback.

edit: To clarify, world building and dialogue are important to me in an RPG, but both take a huge backseat to gameplay. I don't care how good the world is, or how interesting the characters are. If the gameplay is dull as shit (like it is in most RPGs), then it's going to be dull as shit for 30+ hours. No thanks.

I'm gonna reinstall for the third time and try to find out once again why people like this. I played the 2 handed warrior class because 2 handed is always boss, but there was no dodge. What the hell am I supposed to do to evade attacks, just sprint away?

Start out as a Strider. Or Mage.

 

[super-famicom]

http://imgur.com/gallery/qGAVO

holy shit have you guys ever seen this?

WOW

 

[Dekuboy]

Well Dark Souls 3 is the weakest in the entry so it wasn´t that difficult.

 

[Koyuga]

Dragon's Dogma is probably the best fantasy game ever made.

 

[pretty done]

Start out as a Strider. Or Mage.

I tried mage when they offered it free on PS+ and it was boring me to tears. Is the 2 handed warrior just not good?

 

[Robot Pants]

God damnit. I planned on getting to dark arisen on my PS3 one day (the performance made me put it down) but now I'm gonna be talked into buying it on PC I can feel it.

 

[ASilentProtagonist]

In terms of enjoyment, I definitely did. DS3 is the 5th iteration of a souls like game in 2016 so it's a bit of an unfair comparison, but that also says a lot about how great DD is.

In comparison to other souls games like the masterpiece that was DS1 it doesn't hold a candle though.

DD2 on current gen with Itsuno at the helm would be unreal.

 

[pablito]

I dont understand why Capcom hasnt released it on PS4 already. I want to revisit it.

Edit: it is not better than Souls though lol. Stop with the crazyness guys.

Yeah guys. Please don't have an opinion unless it's Souls being the best.

 

[Kagutaba]

All true. I think the praise Dragon's Dogma gets is largely around how much people enjoy the "feel" of the game. People praise the battle system as one of the best in the genre, but as we've discussed, it requires nothing in the way of skill from the player. Hell, Skyrim, a game frequently derided for its combat system, handles it better. And as you illustrated, the ability to pause and heal robs most encounters of any possible tension.

But you'll still see people say how much they love the combat. And that's because the controls are responsive, and the animations snappy. At least, that's the best explanation I can muster.

That is totally what it is, they like the quality of the combat on the micro level but overlook the numerous flaws on the macro level, i.e. it being too reliant on equipment progression, a badly designed stamina and health system, etcetera.

 

[mstevens]

Is the PS3 version okay?

 

[Bronetta]

I bought Dark Arisen on PS3 at release and the framerate made me want to gouge my eyes out.

Of course the PC port fixes this, guess Ill pick it up during the Winter Sale

 

[Iva Demilcol]

I love both, the Souls series and DD, I'd be playing DD online if I could. I played DD vanilla, and Dark Arisen... got all the achievements. I've played that game three times one after another and when the PC version came out I bought it too and play it sometimes, although I prefer playing on console.

I agree that the monsters look kind of mundane, but that's also the intention of the devs, it's mentioned in the artbook: they looked into historical records of how some monsters were supposed to look, if you pay attention, harpies in this game look like the pictures you find in history books, while harpies in Dark Souls are pretty weird and freakie. Gransys itself look like a place you could find in our real world, the only fantasy-like setting that tried to remind you that it was a fantasy game were the weird springs with magical water, the rest of the world looked so plain and mundane it could very well be our own world, and it worked for me, I fell in love with Gransys and wouldn't change a thing about it.

The combat in DD is more flashy and less realistic than Dark Souls', but I prefer it much more since you feel like you're fighting a 'real' creature, rather than hitting the nails of a dragon until it dies. The pawn system was also pretty unique and fun, having a pawn with you is the equivalent to have a Black Iron Tarkus or a Jester Thomas with you all the time, since they are very useful, especially when you find though groups of enemies.

Dragon's Dogma is flawed, a lot actually, but it's so much fun I don't really care about its flaws.

Now, about Dark Souls III... haven't played yet the DLC since I want to finish Persona 5 first but I think I have played enough of vanilla DSIII to give an informed opinion: The game is great, the combat is as fair as ever, the magic system still needs more work this time than in previous entries, but I love it; the main problem the game has is that it's my 5th Souls game... I know where an ambush is waiting for me, where there's a hidden trap, I can predict as well what I have to do to find shortcuts and hidden paths and secrets the very first time I visited an area because I played the other 4 games a lot, I already know what to await from the 5th game. I'm not tired of those games, it's just I have a lot of experience with the previous ones than wathever they throw at you, you already experienced it. It's better to let the series rest for a while and they know it very well. When a dev knows there's no reason to keep a series going for so long, you have to respect their decision to take a break, and so right now we need more Dragon's Dogma and less Dark Souls.

 

[IMACOMPUTA]

Character creator is great. Here are mine:

 

[Sanctuary]

I tried mage when they offered it free on PS+ and it was boring me to tears. Is the 2 handed warrior just not good?

How long did you actually play the Mage? I actually tried the demo for this game when it was first released, and I absolutely did not like it at all. There was just so much wrong with it. I revisited the game again six months later after seeing all of the amazing Sorcerer gifs here. Mage starts out just shooting orbs from a staff or casting Ingle over and over, but once you switch to Sorcerer, that's when the magic of this game really opens up.

Warrior is one of the most grindy vocations of all to get everything you need to make it even acceptable. You're better of playing an Assassin or just sticking with a Fighter if you want to be an up close fighter.

 

[bobawesome]

Unfounded opinions aren't worth that much. Just as an example: you can say the combat in DD is better than the combat in the Souls series, but then you need to respond to the people bringing up the huge flaws said combat system has and refute them, otherwise you will not really convince anyone.

That goes for both sides. Calling posters "crazy" for preferring Dragon's Dogma over Dark Souls accomplishes nothing when they had nothing of value to say in the rest of their post.

 

[Laiza]

But you'll still see people say how much they love the combat. And that's because the controls are responsive, and the animations snappy. At least, that's the best explanation I can muster.

It's because it's the most physical combat system ever made.

The locational damage combined with the ability to climb and attack specific enemy parts makes it the least abstract combat ever developed for a video game. In a game like Souls you frequently end up slashing at feet repeatedly until dead. Not the case here at all.

That, in combination with the fun moves you can get from each class and the way magic is handled (with HUGE spells having a very noticeable impact in any given battle) make it feel like you're actually participating in these fights more than in any other game I can think of.

I consider character action games to be a different ball of wax as they more frequently use canned animations and encounters that run the same way every time. There's a lot more nuance in a more grounded setting like Dragon's Dogma (what with the lack of air combos and crazy fast movements etc.) that you just don't get in those kinds of games. It's the same reason Monster Hunter is so successful in its little niche. People just really like feeling like they're actually there in the thick of it.

 

[Memento]

Is the PS3 version okay?

Yes.

I played it on it and really enjoyed it.

In fact it one of the best looking games I have ever played on the PS3. The performance is decent too.

 

[pretty done]

How long did you actually play the Mage? I actually tried the demo for this game when it was first released, and I absolutely did not like it at all. There was just so much wrong with it. I revisited the game again six months later after seeing all of the amazing Sorcerer gifs here. Mage starts out just shooting orbs from a staff or casting Ingle over and over, but once you switch to Sorcerer, that's when the magic of this game really opens up.

Warrior is one of the most grindy vocations of all to get everything you need to make it even acceptable. You're better of playing an Assassin or just sticking with a Fighter if you want to be an up close fighter.

eeeeehhhhh

I think I'm just better off reinstalling DS3. DD just ain't for me it seems, I don't wanna use a mage or a dinky sword and board. Thanks for the info tho, if I ever do reinstall I'll just try playing mage I guess.

 

[Eidan]

It's because it's the most physical combat system ever made.

The locational damage combined with the ability to climb and attack specific enemy parts makes it the least abstract combat ever developed for a video game. In a game like Souls you frequently end up slashing at feet repeatedly until dead. Not the case here at all.

That, in combination with the fun moves you can get from each class and the way magic is handled (with HUGE spells having a very noticeable impact in any given battle) make it feel like you're actually participating in these fights more than in any other game I can think of.

I consider character action games to be a different ball of wax as they more frequently use canned animations and encounters that run the same way every time. There's a lot more nuance in a more grounded setting like Dragon's Dogma (what with the lack of air combos and crazy fast movements etc.) that you just don't get in those kinds of games. It's the same reason Monster Hunter is so successful in its little niche. People just really like feeling like they're actually there in the thick of it.

I think we're largely agreeing on why people enjoy the combat in the game. Hell, in my first post I boiled it down to "people like jumping on big monsters". But as I said, the game is in no way skill based. But it FEELS skill based, since the controls are responsive, you're jumping on things, and hell, that magic looks so cool.

 

[Kagutaba]

That goes for both sides. Calling posters "crazy" for preferring Dragon's Dogma over Dark Souls accomplishes nothing when they had nothing of value to say in the rest of their post.

Yeah, that seems fair.

 

[Blade30]

Eh I played and finished DD on PC as well (not the DLC though) but it was just ok, to me the only strong point of the game is the combat aspect, everything else is kind of a lackluster (open world/level, quests).

 

[Sanctuary]

I think we're largely agreeing on why people enjoy the combat in the game. Hell, in my first post I boiled it down to "people like jumping on big monsters". But as I said, the game is in no way skill based. But it FEELS skill based, since the controls are responsive, you're jumping on things, and hell, that magic looks so cool.

Not really. It's not just because of jumping on big monsters at all. It's like I said in a previous post: feedback. It's one of the most tactile games around right now in that regard, and that includes animations where you aren't even doing anything, such as a griffon flailing about in the sky before plummeting.

 

[Clarkus Darkus]

Just when Dark Souls had all the answers, Dragons Dogma came along and changed the questions.

Game of the last gen for me DD was.

 

[Eidan]

Not really. It's not just because of jumping on big monsters at all. It's like I said in a previous post: feedback. It's one of the most tactile games around right now in that regard, and that includes animations where you aren't even doing anything, such as a griffon flailing about in the sky before plummeting.

What do you mean by tactile? Animations? Controls? If so, I've covered those things as explanations for the praise of the combat system.

Dragon's Dogma is just a game that's wholly lacking on all fronts. Most can admit the story, characters, and world are uninspired and uninteresting, leaning on the "stellar gameplay" as reasons for its praise. But the gameplay itself is shallow, masquerading as an action RPG that requires player mastery to improve, when in reality it offers combat that in many ways is a simpler, flashier Skyrim, without any of that games' strengths to carry it.

 

[KdylanR92]

Every time I think about playing DD again I think "oh man the combat's awesome" and then quickly remember how shit everything else is and decide not to play it again.

This happens every couple of months.

 

[DemWalls]

I bought the game on PC as soon as it was available, still have to install it. I don't know if I'll ever play it though. I've read so much praise around here that my expectations may be way too high; it's bound to be at least a minor disappointment

 

[Sanctuary]

What do you mean by tactile? Animations? Controls? If so, I've covered those things as explanations for the praise of the combat system.

Dragon's Dogma is just a game that's wholly lacking on all fronts. Most can admit the story, characters, and world are uninspired and uninteresting, leaning on the "stellar gameplay" as reasons for its praise. But the gameplay itself is shallow, masquerading as an action RPG that requires player mastery to improve, when in reality it offers combat that in many ways is a simpler, flashier Skyrim, without any of that games' strengths to carry it.

We get it, you think it's the most overrated game of last gen, and it wasn't what you were hoping for. You aren't going to convince anyone here that enjoyed it though, so why are you trying so hard?
I'm actually surprised Morriganstark hasn't chimed in yet. She's one of the most vocal proponents on NeoGAF regarding the Souls games, and she absolutely loved DD.

 

[Toxi]

I completely agree, but (as we are comparing Dragon's Dogma to the Souls series here) I must admit I felt that the capital and the area surrounding it in DD felt like a 1:1 spiritual recreation of World 1 - Boletarian Palace, in Demon's Souls. Both equally ugly, dull and lifeless.

Basically, it's not like the older Souls games didn't have badly designed and ugly areas too. That's especially true with Demon's Souls, remember the brown orange mess that was World 2 - Stonefang Tunnel, filled with these guys:

Dragon's Dogma isn't a good looking game, but it's at least on par with the worst areas in the Souls series visually.

Much of what makes Souls areas interesting is the focus on environmental storytelling. Stonefang Tunnel starts out in a surface forge and refinery. The majority of "enemies" are dull-eyed workers that toil endlessly and ignore the player until provoked, with the more hostile baddies working as their pitiless overseers. As the player travels deeper into the mines, the neat stone hallways start being replaced by haphazardly constructed wood scaffolding and earthy tunnels filled with underground life. And then in the deep labyrinth of tunnels made by these organisms, the player starts to see gigantic bones... The bones of dragons. And finally the player reaches the bottom and finds the ruins of a once great subterranean civilization, occupied now only by a gigantic terrifying dragon "god" who is little more than a prisoner awaiting his execution.

And all of this is done visually. You could play Demon's Souls without reading a single item description or listening to a single line of dialogue and you would still understand what Stonefang Tunnel is about.

 

[dragonzdogma]

I literally had this same thought today, that i love this more than DS3.

It is just such a comfort game for me to return to. I don't give a crap about story. Great atmosphere, fantastic Devil-May-Cry-light combat, and a character editor that makes From look like amateurs (most character editors do thoúgh) and I love to make characters.

One of my favorite games. It just screams of its cut-short development time, but it still works.

Do you know bacon?
May I ask, are we ever going to get a PS4 or PS4 pro version?
Thanks

 

[Eidan]

We get it, you think it's the most overrated game of last gen, and it wasn't what you were hoping for. You aren't going to convince anyone here that enjoyed it though, so why are you trying so hard?

This is a thread where discussion is centered directly around comparing Dragon's Dogma to another game. I came in saying it's inferior, and have been explaining why. Is that bothering you? Do you want me to explain...less?

 

[friz898]

This is a thread where discussion is centered directly around comparing Dragon's Dogma to another game. I came in saying it's inferior, and have been explaining why. Is that bothering you? Do you want me to explain...less?

Not part of your conversation, but I guess that shows how titles pull people in differently.

I'm sitting here thinking it's a Pro or Praise Dragon's Dogma thread or more about DD on PC, but I can't re-read the title and necessarily come away with that being the actual point of thread.

It's kind of as someone said at the beginning (unless they were trying to have this comparison-debate) -- they intentionally derailed their own thread before it even got off the ground.

 

[Sanctuary]

This is a thread where discussion is centered directly around comparing Dragon's Dogma to another game. I came in saying it's inferior, and have been explaining why. Is that bothering you? Do you want me to explain...less?

Weird, because you've barely actually elaborated at all on actual comparisons. Almost every post has been this:

I'm considering this thread more, and I'm struggling to think of ANYTHING I think Dragon's Dogma did better than Dark Souls 3. Combat is worse. Art design is worse. Story is worse. Music is worse. Writing's worse...yeesh.

Which is entirely subjective, and still doesn't actually say anything. It's also highly telling that you haven't actually played the expansion either. Because it so liberally borrowed from the Souls games in terms of art design and atmosphere.

 

[Kagutaba]

Much of what makes Souls areas interesting is the focus on environmental storytelling. Stonefang Tunnel starts out in a surface forge and refinery. The majority of "enemies" are dull-eyed workers that toil endlessly and ignore the player until provoked, with the more hostile baddies working as their pitiless overseers. As the player travels deeper into the mines, the neat stone hallways start being replaced by haphazardly constructed wood scaffolding and earthy tunnels filled with underground life. And then in the deep labyrinth of tunnels made by these organisms, the player starts to see gigantic bones... The bones of dragons. And finally the player reaches the bottom and finds the ruins of a once great subterranean civilization, occupied now only by a gigantic terrifying dragon "god" who is little more than a prisoner awaiting his execution.

And all of this is done visually. You could play Demon's Souls without reading a single item description or listening to a single line of dialogue and you would still understand what Stonefang Tunnel is about.

Dragon's Dogma doesn't tell its story through its environment in the same brilliant way the Souls series do, very true. And many areas in DD is repeated with only small changes (especially in the DLC).

But I was mostly commenting on the looks of these areas and how unappealing they were to my taste, while slightly refuting the idea that the Souls series, at least in the past, looked that much better than Dragon's Dogma.

 

[Lorcain]

But you'll still see people say how much they love the combat. And that's because the controls are responsive, and the animations snappy. At least, that's the best explanation I can muster.

No, as someone who has played the Souls series and DD+BBI, the reason why I invested so much time in DD is because it's fun. It's really that simple. I enjoy the Souls series because they're challenging. I want both. But DD is all about insane, over-the-top unscripted combat for me.

I wish this thread hadn't started as a battle between the Souls series and Dragon's Dogma, because that just puts people in a defensive mindset before they even respond.

 

[xaosslug]

loved the game + expansion on PS3.

 

[Eidan]

Weird, because you've barely actually elaborated at all on actual comparisons. Almost every post has been this:



Which is entirely subjective, and still doesn't actually say anything. It's also highly telling that you haven't actually played the expansion either. Because it so liberally borrowed from the Souls games in terms of art design and atmosphere.

Fair, I have spoken a lot more about Dragon's Dogma's flaws than how Dark Souls 3 is better, outside of my blanket declaration that I couldn't think of anything DD did better.

Well combat in Dark Souls 3 required much more actual development in player skill, and enemy encounters themselves are far more varied and interesting. With art and level design, I found myself consistently amazed and in awe of how creative From was with the various locations in the game. Nothing in Dragon's Dogma for instance, comes close to an Irithyll of the Boreal Valley for instance. Hell, if I could describe Dragon's Dogma, I'd say it's a more lifeless Undead Burg from the original Dark Souls. The two games tell their stories in much more different ways, to the point where I don't even think a comparison makes sense, but I'd just say I was more intrigued with DS3's story and leave it there. Uhh, yeah, and I talked about music earlier, and said all I could remember from DD was the awful starting menu music.

Is that a sufficient comparison, or do you want more?

And you're right, I never played Dark Arisen. And why would I? I bought the vanilla game when it released, and didn't like it.

 

[Kagutaba]

No, as someone who has played the Souls series and DD+BBI, the reason why I invested so much time in DD is because it's fun. It's really that simple. I enjoy the Souls series because they're challenging. I want both. But DD is all about insane, over-the-top unscripted combat for me.

I wish this thread hadn't started as a battle between the Souls series and Dragon's Dogma, because that just puts people in a defensive mindset before they even respond.

I think it's fun too.

But, don't you find the health and stamina system problematic, or that the combat is too reliant on you having the right gear? Does these aspects don't remove some of the fun out of the game for you, as it did for me?

 

[YoRHa No.2 Type B]

Still hope that Dragon's Dogma comes to PS4 aswell but I guess not. Maybe I get Dragon's Dogma once I got a better notebook.

Like in 5 years..

 

[SargerusBR]

Character creator is great. Here are mine:

John Connor?

 

[Laiza]

But the gameplay itself is shallow, masquerading as an action RPG that requires player mastery to improve, when in reality it offers combat that in many ways is a simpler, flashier Skyrim, without any of that games' strengths to carry it.

Why can't it be both?

The game does benefit from player mastery, as much as you claim otherwise. Knowing when to attack, where weak points are located, what skills are most effective in certain situations, and how to manage your resources (though I will agree the game is far too lenient with recovery items) are certainly player skills that will make a difference in any given encounter.

And the RPG elements themselves comprise a certain level of player skill, as there is a strategic element in kitting out your character and your pawn and choosing what skills to bring along for your outings. Of course, the weight system, maligned as it may be, forces you to make a trade-off between holding tons of recovery items and having lots of spare weight to carry stuff home with you. None of it is as impressive or flashy as a 200+ APM player in Starcraft or a skilled player in a character action game pulling off sick moves, but that's also part of its charm. It doesn't require a ton from the player most of the time, but it still rewards those who want to put effort into it.

I do think the Souls series does a better job with the player skill vs. character stats balance, but just because the stats make a big difference doesn't mean that player skill is completely irrelevant.

 

[DaciaJC]

And my experience with the game is that "mastery" is simply grinding.

Here's a good breakdown.

I find it difficult to disagree with any of his points, especially regarding the combat system. Nonetheless, I love Dragon's Dogma. It was perhaps the biggest surprise of last gen for me. It's a greatly flawed game, but the combination of vocations with special skills and abilities, the pawn system, and the open world (barren as it was, it still had some positive elements like the day-night cycle) set it apart from other RPGs I had played, particularly the Souls games.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

i dont know recently i am finding insane amount of people online shitting on it

You can kinda do that with anything.

 

[Iva Demilcol]

This is a thread where discussion is centered directly around comparing Dragon's Dogma to another game. I came in saying it's inferior, and have been explaining why. Is that bothering you? Do you want me to explain...less?

The OP does say he enjoyed more Dragon's Dogma than DSIII, and that's his only premise, he tried to explain why he liked it more, but by no means he's arguing that DD is better than DSIII (unless I didn't pay enough attention).

You're comparing both games under the same terms (the quality of their combat systems) and I think that's fair but at the same time I think that's wrong, as someone said earlier: DS has a combat system superior to other action RPGs out there and everyone accepted it like that when it came out, then DD came along and many of us realized you didn't need DS combat to enjoy an action RPG, and that's good because more variety is always good since not all of us are searching for the same things while playing a game. As someone who likes both Souls games and DD I can tell you that I don't play DD for the reward of conquering a difficult challenge as I usually do when I play the Souls games, my reward is the combat itself, which is flashy, over the top, and fun to mess with without risking too much: You have basically two interpretations of how to make a dark fantasy action RPG aimed to please an international audience, that's what both games have in common and where they differ to each other, and I think they are great at what they do.

If someone asks me what's my favorite game of the previous gen some days I'd say Dark Souls and some days I'd say Dragon's Dogma, the balance would lean towards DD if I met an annoying Souls fan, though.

 

[friz898]

I find it difficult to disagree with any of his points, especially regarding the combat system. Nonetheless, I love Dragon's Dogma. It was perhaps the biggest surprise of last gen for me. It's a greatly flawed game, but the combination of vocations with special skills and abilities, the pawn system, and the open world (barren as it was, it still had some positive elements like the day-night cycle) set it apart from other RPGs I had played, particularly the Souls games.

To oversimplify your statement.

It was so flawed, yet so great.

That being said, almost makes me wonder if certain departments/teams, or people pulled their weight or met their deadlines, while others did not.

As in, we should be giving certain folk credit here and be on the lookout for more they do.

 

[Producer]

I wish i could play it on steam, if only my laptop wasnt a piece of shit. I do have both 360/ps3 versions at least. Definately one of the best rpgs last gen.

 

[sublimit]

Well i absolutely love both games/series about the same.

I only wish Capcom believed more on the strength of this IP as a single player game before they decided to go the F2P route. Dragon's Dogma 2 would be a dream come true for me if it ever happens.

 

[magnetic]

This game completely flew under my radar, probably because I keep confusing it with Dragon Age.

Everything I've read so far sounds good to me. Don't mind a shitty story if the mechanics are good. Definitely gonna check this out!

 

[sublimit]

This game completely flew under my radar, probably because I keep confusing it with Dragon Age.

Everything I've read so far sounds good to me. Don't mind a shitty story if the mechanics are good. Definitely gonna check this out!

The story gets a lot of flak but personally i think it's passable. There are far worse stories in other games that have a (supposedly) big focus on their stories and characters.