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[Bragr]

why "should" you?
you already squandered your resources, you don't need a +20 weapon to "test" it.
you are also not locked out of using other weapons, +6 is plenty for most purposes unless you wanna min max this, in which case , your aproach was pretty dumb upgrading everything under the sun to +20.

I should so I don't have to use time grinding just to change a weapon or have to read a guide to understand what to do. That's why I said it was a bad weapon system.

I needed a high-level weapon to test how it scales and how it damages bosses, and I maxed out 2 of them. I used all my stones between them. Since the moonveil got bleeding, I had to know how that worked at a boss, I had no idea if it could match the crystal sword damage unless it was at the same level.

Since they scale differently, and the scaling changes mid-level, it's impossible to know how they turn out unless you get them at the same level.

Basically, I tested two swords and now I'm stuck using them for the rest of the game or grind like a motherfucker.

 

[Bragr]

Also if nobody already told you in this thread:

Soulsborne games have incredibly detailed wikis.

So read those before "testing" weapons. Someone has probably already done the maths for you.

Besides, in what world does someone waste mats like that?

Someone who tries to play games without guides or wikis. I got through all their other games without it. But none of those games compelled me to switch weapons 40 hours in, it's just now I realized how bad this system it.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Basically, I tested two swords and now I'm stuck using them for the rest of the game or grind like a motherfucker.

You literally don't, you're doing this to yourself, I went through most of the game with my starter axe at + 6; just play the goddamn game man, there's literally no reason for needing to upgrade in order to "know", whatever the hell it is you think you need to know. SMH.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I needed a high-level weapon to test how it scales and how it damages bosses, and I maxed out 2 of them. I used all my stones between them. Since the moonveil got bleeding, I had to know how that worked at a boss, I had no idea if it could match the crystal sword damage unless it was at the same level.

No you don't, you haven't even found the knife to change the weapon scaling in the starting area!

I'm level 85 with a freaking +5 weapon, so what.

 

[Keihart]

Someone who tries to play games without guides or wikis. I got through all their other games without it. But none of those games compelled me to switch weapons 40 hours in, it's just now I realized how bad this system it.

I play all my games without guides unless im on a second run triying to find some secret or weird stuff.
Elden Ring and all other souls games are definetly playable and even more enjoyable without guides.
Upgrading 2 weapons to max just to test the scaling is a dumb move, get a +6 and make it work or explore the world to find a way to make it +10, your choices are right there.

 

[Ogbert]

I have well over 2000 or so hours in Souls games, but
Lordy I’ve forgotten how insufferable From fanboys can be.

Exploration and discovery is at its best when there is some sort of logical coherence to what you are doing. Randomly finding shit is nothing like as rewarding. It’s a perfectly valid criticism to suggest that From games discard any attempt at narrative structure and instead simply dot random crap around a map and force you to figure it out. Now many (including me) love the games for this feature. But there’s nothing wrong in pointing out the frustrations that can attend this approach.

 

[Bragr]

This is ridiculous hyperbole, you don't have more special/boss weapons than regular ones, don't even try lying.

I never said there was more.

What you are saying is I have to get a weapon that takes the ashes, and grind it up to my level, which is what I am trying to avoid in the first place. This is the whole reason why I am saying this system is bad.

Just the fact that it didn't work on my weapons is absurd enough.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Weapon system is indeed atrocious. Crossbows don't have any scaling so I'm not a fan. And the game heavily revolves around bleed, scarlet rot(debuff is just a bunch of bullshit for both players and bosses), jump attacks, and range(whether it's a lance or magic). Outside of mobbing melee can be rather difficult if you don't stagger. You'll need to be very aggressive a lot of the time. But it can be taxing.

The plus side of the weapon system IMO is no durability bs.

But as a crossbow player I find the system bad overall. It affects me a bit more. And the crossbow I like the most is the Pulley Crossbow. Only weapon I really want to use honestly. But ammo requires farming bones or spending runes. Farming bones takes time and spending runes becomes viable later on so you don't have to farm anymore. If you weren't stuck at 99 bolts to carry and could use the rest of the ones you had in storage it would be better. After all you can carry every weapon in the game without cost. Seems silly.

To progress the game has a reliance on overleveling/upgrading so you put points where you need them for the late game stuff and have a bunch of cheese tactics. Not to mention WP cheese with infinite FP for your Azur Comet laser to cheese bosses that stand in one spot.

I suppose if you want a cool challenge you can do dbl dagger and parry everything but eh sounds taxing.

The game is just so much easier then other souls games with the amount of mats they supply you with, the mount, and the large amount of summons.

However the weapon system isn't the games worst failing. It's the camera in small boss arena's with HUGE bosses. Awful.

----------------

To answer your question despite the weapon system leaning towards specific builds the game is still a truckload of fun and even with the weapon system having a few glaring shortcomings it isn't going to detract much from that experience. But I understand your grievances. At the end of the day players aren't going to mention the caveats of the weapon system because it ultimately doesn't matter.

 

[DeceptiveAlarm]

Weapon upgrading has been cumbersome since Demon’s Souls, but even I think that the weapon upgrade system and materials are a little too much in Elden Ring. The Bells that let you buy materials are not on the main path and its a ridiculous amount of runes if you are to buy them all for a full upgrade. It sort of disincentivizes trying out different builds and respeccing, which is kind of a bummer IMO.

I grinded runes for smithing stone 2s for my claws. Then spent it all on somber stones 2. Not paying attention.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

What you are saying is I have to get a weapon that takes the ashes, and grind it up to my level, which is what I am trying to avoid in the first place.

Where am I saying that? I'm saying the literal opposite, you don't have to grind shit, I killed crucible knight by just parrying him to death with a random +0 shield and a random +0 dagger.
Just use something else, change the scaling if you like it and then upgrade it if you want, but you don't have to.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Gotta love when someone doesn't know how to play a game and calls it badly designed because of that.

Dude it's an RPG, not all weapons will suit your build. Besides, I've been playing without a guide and I'm swimming both in upgrade materials and the respec item, as some areas have a lot of those (maybe even too many). You sure you are near the end?

Yeaaaaah, I'm over 100 hours in and I've never had a problem with any of this. I didn't realize the weapon system was "bad" at all.

These games require time investment, curiosity and exploration, that's just how it is.

I don't understand how you can play for that amount of time and not find anything for your class? Within 10 hours I had a weapon for pretty much every class in my inventory along with a bunch of summons, spells and ashes. That's not a luck/discovery thing either because the vast majority of the meaningful loot is hand placed and single instanced per playthrough.

Exactly. If you're wanting to max every single weapon, that's a personal problem, lmao. The reality is that you'll have a select few weapons you'll cycle. Those will have more attention than the other weapons you've collected. But, yeah, I dunno. To each their own, but I don't think what I've experienced is "broken" or "dated" or "bad" lmao.

 

[Decontamination Silo]

OP I think you'd be a lot better off with a more accessible game.

 

[-tetsuo-]

I mean its been fine for me and lots of people for going on 13 years. I always mess with a weapon first to see if I like it enough to spend resources on it. Also in this game, with how easy it is to buff your stats its not really big deal to get the requirments you need for most of the gear you find. On top of that, there are lots of bell bearings you can find that give you access to smithing stones to upgrade the weapons quite a bit before needing to find anything. I am at the end of the game or close to it and the difference between my +22 weapon and my +14 isn't that huge. I switch back and forth between them all the time.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

As usual, the elitism of Souls stans is fucking insufferable. The worst of console warring in here was never as obnoxious as the reactions when someone dares say a From game could be a little more user-friendly. And 90% of those smartasses probably abused online wikis for their first (and not only their first) Souls game just to make some sense of it. No, please refrain from replying you always figured it all out yourself and it’s piss easy.

Weapon upgrading is Souls has always been this way, and there’s ample room for improvement.
The problem is always the same:
- many weapons have ridiculous stats requirements, meaning you have to go through half the game at least before you can even properly handle them, meanwhile you’ll have to use something else and use precious materials on it;
- many upgrade items (see the embers in DS) are well hidden or come pretty late in the game, when you’ve already committed your favorite weapon to another upgrade path;
- the games are somewhat open-ended, so you may stumble on a good weapon very early on (see: Crescent Falchion in DeS), or simply not even know it exists until very much later. The open-world nature of Elden Ring turns this up to eleven.
- not all builds develop at the same speed. It’s much quicker to get results with a Dex build, while Str builds need ridiculous stats before they start paying off. If a newcomer chooses a warrior type and very logically goes for Str, they’re gonna have a very hard time.

Still, I don’t see how OP can be near the end with a +8 weapon. I couldn‘t get far in Raya Lucaria with anything less than a +7, and that’s barely the second Lord’s abode. If OP really got that far with such a puny weapon, upgrading should be the last of their problem.

 

[zeorhymer]

1. You +20 TWO different weapons.
2. You "needed" to test them on bosses etc.
3. Complain that the weapon system is "atrocious"

Conclusion: You are a min-max player. Nothing we explain will help you out. This game isn't for you.

 

[spawn]

There is nothing wrong with looking at guides to find the best weapons so that you are not disappointed

 

[Hari Seldon]

The souls fanboys act like someone shit in their mouth whenever anyone criticizes the game in the slightest.

I have bought and abondoned every souls game at like ~10ish hours. I was not going to buy this, but hype got to me like a dumbass. I wish I did not buy it despite loving the difficulty, lore, and general feel of the game. But hol-e-fuck is this game obtuse and has some really questionable design decisions. I want to like this game, but right now it is 6/10 for me.

These are the problems I have with the game:
1. I read somewhere that the Katana was good, so I started with Samurai. I put points into Str because a shield needed it and I like using a shield. But now after upgrading my katana I realize that it is better to have Dex since the "D" on dex changed to a "C". This was not explained originally at all. So now I guess I need to pump points into Dex instead? Should I not be upgrading this weapon and instead wait for some much better Katana to upgrade? I have no idea.
2. I don't know when I should even bother upgrading weapons. I'm getting my shit pushed in fighting these knights in the castle. I guess I need to upgrade my weapon? I'm not sure. The game doesn't do a good job at telling you if you are under-leveled, under-geared, or just suck.
3. The inventory and UI in general is complete and utter crap.
4. The #1 problem I have with souls games is that you need to look up shit online as a new player. You can't just play the game and learn as you go, unless you are a veteran of the series.

 

[TintoConCasera]

What do you mean I can change them to whatever with the right tools?

You know that thing you got to put ashes of war on your weapons?

Well, there are more of those things, and they allow you to change the scaling of a weapon. For example, standard longsword scales D with STR and DEX, but with that thing you can change it from standard to heavy longsword, so it scales B only with STR.

 

[Majukun]

it does limit experimentation, true.
which is doubly troublesome in the mid game when you are too invested to change but you still keep finding stuff that isn't for your build, the progression kinda plateaus...

and that's the kind of issue that botw avoided with the so furiously hated weapon degradation

 

[Keihart]

The souls fanboys act like someone shit in their mouth whenever anyone criticizes the game in the slightest.

I have bought and abondoned every souls game at like ~10ish hours. I was not going to buy this, but hype got to me like a dumbass. I wish I did not buy it despite loving the difficulty, lore, and general feel of the game. But hol-e-fuck is this game obtuse and has some really questionable design decisions. I want to like this game, but right now it is 6/10 for me.

These are the problems I have with the game:
1. I read somewhere that the Katana was good, so I started with Samurai. I put points into Str because a shield needed it and I like using a shield. But now after upgrading my katana I realize that it is better to have Dex since the "D" on dex changed to a "C". This was not explained originally at all. So now I guess I need to pump points into Dex instead? Should I not be upgrading this weapon and instead wait for some much better Katana to upgrade? I have no idea.
2. I don't know when I should even bother upgrading weapons. I'm getting my shit pushed in fighting these knights in the castle. I guess I need to upgrade my weapon? I'm not sure. The game doesn't do a good job at telling you if you are under-leveled, under-geared, or just suck.
3. The inventory and UI in general is complete and utter crap.
4. The #1 problem I have with souls games is that you need to look up shit online as a new player. You can't just play the game and learn as you go, unless you are a veteran of the series.

You can play without a guide, you just need to stop being a bitch expecting to have the perfect gear with everything maxed to the best most optimal possible degree.
Commiting and making guesses as you go is part of the systems, it doesn't make them bad it makes them meaningfull.
All that aside, ER is one the most flexible RPG systems out there thanks to the ashes of war stuff and the respec option you get further in.

People afraid to miss on somthing while playing are condemmed to not enjoy the systems, the game is designed so that its possible to miss stuff, if it wasn't there would be no weight to your decisions and the discovery on the game.
Inconvinieces in games are not bad design if they serve a porpouse.

 

[Decontamination Silo]

The bountiful harvest provided by Miyazaki's great #filtering has exceeded my wildest expectations. As a long time salt miner, my reserves are overflowing. I'm truly not worthy lord!

 

[Melfice7]

If we let OP design Elden Ring

Right when i was eating too..

 

[Decontamination Silo]

If we let OP design Elden Ring

Hold R3 for batman vision tho?

 

[DR3AM]

For me the biggest issue with ER as rookie Souls player is hat nothing is explained. I have to Google every item I receive.

 

[R6Rider]

For me the biggest issue with ER as rookie Souls player is hat nothing is explained. I have to Google every item I receive.

Items often explain what they do in their menu description.

 

[ReBurn]

you guys sound like D&D nerds

 

[Majukun]

These games require time investment, curiosity and exploration, that's just how it is.

I don't understand how you can play for that amount of time and not find anything for your class? Within 10 hours I had a weapon for pretty much every class in my inventory along with a bunch of summons, spells and ashes. That's not a luck/discovery thing either because the vast majority of the meaningful loot is hand placed and single instanced per playthrough.

i'm 50h in and i'm still wearing the same shitty light armor i found in stormveil castle because i can't seem to be able to find a decent light armor by paying its weight in gold...

 

[Azelover]

Elden Ring is cool, but I have to admit, it's very very upmarket.

 

[zeorhymer]

The souls normies act like someone shit in their mouth whenever they can't progress in the game.

I have bought and abondoned every souls game at like ~10ish hours. I was not going to buy this, but hype got to me like a dumbass.

Na. It's people like you that shit on a game because you don't have the skill, patience, or understanding of mechanics. You even admitted that you hate Fromsoft Souls game and yet you bought it. Don't shit on the people who enjoy and understand the game just because you don't. This is why the majority of modern gaming is terrible. They have to cater to the lowest common denominator, which is you, so that they can get sales.

If Darkside Phil can beat DS3, Bloodborn and Sekiro, these games aren't for you.

 

[newtypepilot]

I blame AAA devs like ubisoft that just spoonfeeds the player like they are babies.

They are so conditioned to never having to think that when they are not given the solution immediately to their face they complain like babies.

 

[Hari Seldon]

You can play without a guide, you just need to stop being a bitch expecting to have the perfect gear with everything maxed to the best most optimal possible degree.
Commiting and making guesses as you go is part of the systems, it doesn't make them bad it makes them meaningfull.
All that aside, ER is one the most flexible RPG systems out there thanks to the ashes of war stuff and the respec option you get further in.

People afraid to miss on somthing while playing are condemmed to not enjoy the systems, the game is designed so that its possible to miss stuff, if it wasn't there would be no weight to your decisions and the discovery on the game.
Inconvinieces in games are not bad design if they serve a porpouse.

Due to the UI being designed by a cross-eyed one armed murloc I have no idea what these ashes of war actually do. They seemingly change the "special" of the weapon which didn't seem like a big deal, but judging by this thread they actually change the scaling? I had no idea because none of this shit is explained or if it is it is not explained well due to the aforementioned complete disgrace of a UI.

 

[Haggard]

As usual, the elitism of Souls stans is fucking insufferable. The worst of console warring in here was never as obnoxious as the reactions when someone dares say a From game could be a little more user-friendly. And 90% of those smartasses probably abused online wikis for their first (and not only their first) Souls game just to make some sense of it. No, please refrain from replying you always figured it all out yourself and it’s piss easy.

Weapon upgrading is Souls has always been this way, and there’s ample room for improvement.
The problem is always the same:
- many weapons have ridiculous stats requirements, meaning you have to go through half the game at least before you can even properly handle them, meanwhile you’ll have to use something else and use precious materials on it;
- many upgrade items (see the embers in DS) are well hidden or come pretty late in the game, when you’ve already committed your favorite weapon to another upgrade path;
- the games are somewhat open-ended, so you may stumble on a good weapon very early on (see: Crescent Falchion in DeS), or simply not even know it exists until very much later. The open-world nature of Elden Ring turns this up to eleven.
- not all builds develop at the same speed. It’s much quicker to get results with a Dex build, while Str builds need ridiculous stats before they start paying off. If a newcomer chooses a warrior type and very logically goes for Str, they’re gonna have a very hard time.

"I don`t like that this game about careful exploration and build tinkering is rewarding careful exploration and build tinkering"

 

[Decontamination Silo]

Na. It's people like you that shit on a game because you don't have the skill, patience, or understanding of mechanics. You even admitted that you hate Fromsoft Souls game and yet you bought it. Don't shit on the people who enjoy and understand the game just because you don't. This is why the majority of modern gaming is terrible. They have to cater to the lowest common denominator, which is you, so that they can get sales.

If Darkside Phil can beat DS3, Bloodborn and Sekiro, these games aren't for you.

I wish I had more than one react to give. Peace be upon you king.

 

[Keihart]

Due to the UI being designed by a cross-eyed one armed murloc I have no idea what these ashes of war actually do. They seemingly change the "special" of the weapon which didn't seem like a big deal, but judging by this thread they actually change the scaling? I had no idea because none of this shit is explained or if it is it is not explained well due to the aforementioned complete disgrace of a UI.

yeah, it's kinda hard, gotta learn to read first.

The ashes of war system gets more flexible the more upgrades you get for it, at first you are limited by the types you have but after a couple of upgrades your ashes give you every type of scaling available. You can have a weapon that scales with faith and does a bleed skill for example, you get to mix and match to your heart content.

 

[daveonezero]

This complaint becomes null because these games can be completed naked at lvl 10 with the most basic sword.

Literally all the upgrades and scaling is just customization on how You want to play. It is optional. You can literally use the starting gear and upgrade it all the way and play for 100s of hours. If that doesn't suit you find a weapon you like. Try it and then upgrade it. Most of the stuff in the wiki is just copy and pasted from the text of the game. You can see all of these changes and modifiers on the stats screen.

I learned playing Demons Souls that you don't have to worry about the min maxing and just figure thing out on your own. IF you don't like that and really just want to play the combat then look at the wiki and spoiler everything.

 

[-MD-]

OP should check out Skyrim

 

[-tetsuo-]

Due to the UI being designed by a cross-eyed one armed murloc I have no idea what these ashes of war actually do. They seemingly change the "special" of the weapon which didn't seem like a big deal, but judging by this thread they actually change the scaling? I had no idea because none of this shit is explained or if it is it is not explained well due to the aforementioned complete disgrace of a UI.

It shows you what the scaling changes to when you are changing out the Ashes. Also in regards to your other questions, don't be afraid to level up your weapons. You will get a lot of the lower level materials and eventually unlock the ability to flat out buy them if you need. You can continue to place the stat points where you think you want to go, str is fine but Katanas generally scale off of dex but like I said you can change that by changing the ash it has equipped.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

but judging by this thread they actually change the scaling?

Well yeah, sounds like you are the one that's cross-eyed, because when applying an ash of war a menu pops up asking which affinity you want, and you can see the scaling change in real time

 

[SeraphJan]

Isn't every Fromsoftware games are like this? (except Sekiro of course)

 

[Hari Seldon]

Na. It's people like you that shit on a game because you don't have the skill, patience, or understanding of mechanics. You even admitted that you hate Fromsoft Souls game and yet you bought it. Don't shit on the people who enjoy and understand the game just because you don't. This is why the majority of modern gaming is terrible. They have to cater to the lowest common denominator, which is you, so that they can get sales.

If Darkside Phil can beat DS3, Bloodborn and Sekiro, these games aren't for you.

Every time a souls game comes out I hope it actually fixes the problems I have with them. This game did fix one HUGE problem in that it has spawn points near the bosses. But it still has this completely horseshit weapon design that requires either heavy online research, or to be a veteran of the series and understand how all of this works based on the previous games.

None of my problems with the game involve the difficulty, lore, or exploration. I like all of those parts about it. My problem with the game is that parts of the game are simply bad.

 

[Bragr]

As usual, the elitism of Souls stans is fucking insufferable. The worst of console warring in here was never as obnoxious as the reactions when someone dares say a From game could be a little more user-friendly. And 90% of those smartasses probably abused online wikis for their first (and not only their first) Souls game just to make some sense of it. No, please refrain from replying you always figured it all out yourself and it’s piss easy.

Weapon upgrading is Souls has always been this way, and there’s ample room for improvement.
The problem is always the same:
- many weapons have ridiculous stats requirements, meaning you have to go through half the game at least before you can even properly handle them, meanwhile you’ll have to use something else and use precious materials on it;
- many upgrade items (see the embers in DS) are well hidden or come pretty late in the game, when you’ve already committed your favorite weapon to another upgrade path;
- the games are somewhat open-ended, so you may stumble on a good weapon very early on (see: Crescent Falchion in DeS), or simply not even know it exists until very much later. The open-world nature of Elden Ring turns this up to eleven.
- not all builds develop at the same speed. It’s much quicker to get results with a Dex build, while Str builds need ridiculous stats before they start paying off. If a newcomer chooses a warrior type and very logically goes for Str, they’re gonna have a very hard time.

Still, I don’t see how OP can be near the end with a +8 weapon. I couldn‘t get far in Raya Lucaria with anything less than a +7, and that’s barely the second Lord’s abode. If OP really got that far with such a puny weapon, upgrading should be the last of their problem.

The magic weapons use a different system, they use sombering smithing stones that use lower levels, i couldnt even get past +7 on my weapon until i reached the giants if i remember correctly.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

they use sombering smithing stones

No, somber stones are for boss/special weapons.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Well yeah, sounds like you are the one that's cross-eyed, because when applying an ash of war a menu pops up asking which affinity you want, and you can see the scaling change in real time

If I apply the ashes of war to my Katana, there was no change in scaling (D-> D and D->D) for strength and dex, until I upgraded it enough. However the attack power appears to go down from 148+ 34 to 124+ 48 which seems to make the weapon worse.

 

[Bragr]

No, somber stones are for boss/special weapons.

Which are magic weapons, like i said.

 

[Drunkdadbr]

Accept that guides and exploits are the way 99% of souls players enjoy their time, OP.

 

[-tetsuo-]

The magic weapons use a different system, they use sombering smithing stones that use lower levels, i couldnt even get past +7 on my weapon until i reached the giants if i remember correctly.

Those weapons only got to +10, so +7 is pretty high

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Which are magic weapons, like i said.

No, magic weapons scale with int or faith, boss/special weapons have all kinds of scaling

 

[Keihart]

Accept that guides and exploits are the way 99% of souls players enjoy their time, OP.

Imagine using guides on a first run.
Total fear of missing out, touch grace and stop being maidenless.

 

[Bragr]

No, magic weapons scale with int or faith, boss/special weapons have all kinds of scaling

But my crystal sword uses dex for magic damage. It uses somber stones.

 

[thegame983]

Im 100 hours in and I'm on my 4th respec.

All 4 with different weapons and styles. The weapon variety and ash of war system is fantastic