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I don't understand why people aren't calling out the atrocious weapon system in Elden Ring

Saber

Member
Normal person: "Hey, this mechanic is a bit cumbersome to use. I wish they fixed it."
Deranged Souls fan: "Oh, you want an easy mode? Why don't you just git gud and stop bitching about it. Google exists for a reason"

There's no nuance with these people.

Normal person: *playing and enjoying Elden Ring
You(generic Neogaf easy mode begging):
Drama Reaction GIF
 
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I'm suprised this thread is still going. Souls games have been like this at least since Dark Souls 1. Possibly even Demons Souls PS3 (it has been a while since I played that). It just seems to be a simple matter that if you didn't like the prerequisite stats to equip certain items you would just play something else. I'm not trying to be elitist or say "git gud", it's just that why would you play a game that has a system like that and then complain about it.

Like, if I don't like platformer games, Im not going to play Mario Odyssey and then complain about jumping
 
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I have no idea what the OP’s problem is.

I started as a warrior. Heavy DEX using dual wield scimitars. Last week I had become almost solely two-handed claymore and curved sword user. Roughly equal amounts of STR/END/DEX. Last night, I added Faith to the mix and now I am using fire weapons and some incantations. My character has *gasp* developed organically.

I did all this with the same character and no respec. I have multiple weapons at around +9 (and have materials to get two to +15 but I am testing out a bunch right now). I did all this without buying smithing stones and BEFORE the patch that made smithing stones easy to find.

How did I do this? Wow! Through the magic of playing the game. Yes! Believe it or not, I simply played the game. I look at the map for interesting geography and explore.

TLDR: What the hell is OP even talking about????
 
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Bragr

Member
Lucky? I unno man I found all of them just playing the game. Are you even exploring?

You say you don't want handholding and you want to explore and discover but it sounds like you're not doing that.

It's a great system, maybe not the game for you though.
If you found all of the somber bell bearings with guides then good for you, but that's not a likely scenario.

It is the game for me. Just because I don't like one little thing doesn't mean I dislike the game. It's possible to dislike a section of a game you like.
 
Isn't this the case back all the way to Demon's Souls PS3?

By the way, I don't understand why this need to have its own thread, Just put it in the OT
 
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Bragr

Member
Nothing is limiting you from trying out the moveset of any weapon, and no weapon is 'bad' in itself - obviously you can't max out every weapon that's not how the game is. Am I misunderstanding something?
I have a 9+ magic sword (somber smithing stones), I wanna try a new one. I won't be able to tell if it's better than the one I have unless I respec and also get it to +9. The moment you lack a few stones it becomes a hassle.
 

Bragr

Member
There's zero luck involved, it's called opening your map and looking at similar markings; the mines all have the same marker, just like the map reveal markers and the telescope markers.
Yeah, it's either a giant fetch-quest. That's my problem. And no, you don't just stumble upon all of them if you do the mines. Some are other places.
 

Bragr

Member
What difference is there beside the moves between weapons? Just the damage numbers and scaling, wich is not really something important at the moment to pick a weapon unless you are just minmaxing.
Using the weapon at +20 is not testing it, that is especializing and investing on a weapon.

Your critism is rubish, you have no argument on why the upgrade system is bad.
"Just the damage numbers".

lol that's a pretty big difference

I have a good weapon, I want a new one, if I am doomed to use something that deals 100 less damage, like you expect, then this system is worse than I thought.

You would never have such a silly argument in any other game.
 

Bragr

Member
That's what you are saying, right? That you want to be able to test out every weapon at the max level every time? Wait, not even Devil May Cry lets you do that. This is still an RPG with classes, you want it to be something it's not. You test the moveset, go fight a few enemies, if you like it then you invest in upgrading it, I have no idea why you upgrade a weapon before even knowing if you like the moveset. That's pretty stupid imo.

I haven't used guides either. 🤷 Well, just once after I spent like 15 hours exploring and I forgot what was the next objective. 🤣
I don't know what your point is here. Of course I check the moveset before I upgrade. But when I do find something I wanna try, I am locked behind grinding for stones and respecing. What other RPG does this exactly? cause usually when you find a sword, you can use it if you are a sword class.
 

Bragr

Member
I have no idea what the OP’s problem is.

I started as a warrior. Heavy DEX using dual wield scimitars. Last week I had become almost solely two-handed claymore and curved sword user. Roughly equal amounts of STR/END/DEX. Last night, I added Faith to the mix and now I am using fire weapons and some incantations. My character has *gasp* developed organically.

I did all this with the same character and no respec. I have multiple weapons at around +9 (and have materials to get two to +15 but I am testing out a bunch right now). I did all this without buying smithing stones and BEFORE the patch that made smithing stones easy to find.

How did I do this? Wow! Through the magic of playing the game. Yes! Believe it or not, I simply played the game. I look at the map for interesting geography and explore.

TLDR: What the hell is OP even talking about????
You are testing out a bunch you say?

Well well well, just wait until you get a bit deeper into the game, you gonna end up making a thread like this yourself.
 

Bragr

Member
Where is this I MUST LEVEL IT TO MAX to see if it is worth a damn philosophy come from?
Not max level, but high-level. Because I need to see if it can compare to the one I am currently using. I need to see how it scales to my strength build, can it stagger high-level enemies, how good is the ashes of war against good enemies, etc.. etc.... All of this basic stuff you test in RPG when you get a new weapon, and in Elden Ring it is hidden unless you test it. Hence, the system is a bad system and too cumbersome for its own good. Towards the end of the game.

The reason why I have to repeat this simple thing over and over is that the people who love FromSoftware reply to every criticism, no matter how small, with stuff like "you just suck at the game", or "it's always been like this".

The game could take 300 hours to exit the tutorial area and most people here would still defend it.
 

Bragr

Member
Think about it though.

From Software didn't give a select amount of people an in-depth strategy guide. People were able to figure things out and then wrote guides on them. That in itself shows that anything in the game can be accomplished if you want to go at it completely blind.

Lots of the complaints come off as, "I want to go about this game blind, but I don't want to put in the required effort, so please tweak it so it's easier"

I'm sorry but that doesn't add up. If playing the game blind is too much of a chore, then use a guide. Otherwise, just suck it up and figure it out.
Both of those options are bad. Any other game would get bashed for this.
 

Bragr

Member
Holy Christ. You're literally whining that you don't know if this new unseen weapon of yours is going to be good and you want to know, magically I guess, before committing to a weapon. . .whether you should commit to a weapon.

This is absolutely wild. Especially coming from someone who was singing to the rooftops about the exact OPPOSITE of this kind of hand-holding game design in your other Elden Ring thread.

. . .peak internet.
This exemplifies everything I am talking about. Getting so mad for a basic complaint.

You just fast-read through some random stuff in the thread, and for some reason believe I want to know the properties of unseen weapons? you sound like your drunk or something.

That other thread was about quest logs, and has nothing to do with this. What is peak internet, is when people slap everything into categories with zero nuance or context.
 

Bragr

Member
You've gotta understand- Souls is pretty much the only major game series which completely trusts the player to not be an idiot, to figure things out for themselves, and to take 100% responsibility for their actions, no matter the outcome. It's what makes it so exciting. So naturally we're protective of it and tend to get dismissive when impatient, lazy people stamp their feet and demand that it conforms to a more homogenised norm.

Is Elden Ring perfect? No. But it's really damn good and I wouldn't change a thing.
"Souls is pretty much the only major series which completely trusts the player to not be an idiot".

Yet you just wrote the dumbest and most elitist thing yet in this thread. FromSoftware fans are the most toxic of all fanbases, they are worse than xbox or playstation fanboys. Man, you couldn't be more elitist and pretentious even if you tried. Play some other games, there are plenty of great things out there, you need to expand your horizon.

I don't think anyone wants to homogenize FromSoftware, but some things could be better. Like the weapon system, or story-telling, or some new innovate way to handle boss encounters rather then lean on the same thing they done for a decade.
 

Bragr

Member
I'm suprised this thread is still going. Souls games have been like this at least since Dark Souls 1. Possibly even Demons Souls PS3 (it has been a while since I played that). It just seems to be a simple matter that if you didn't like the prerequisite stats to equip certain items you would just play something else. I'm not trying to be elitist or say "git gud", it's just that why would you play a game that has a system like that and then complain about it.

Like, if I don't like platformer games, Im not going to play Mario Odyssey and then complain about jumping
If the jumping would have sucked and had no precision, then you should bring it up.

Just because a game has something you don't like doesn't mean you should never play the game. This is a mute argument.
 

Tg89

Member
If you found all of the somber bell bearings with guides then good for you, but that's not a likely scenario.

It is the game for me. Just because I don't like one little thing doesn't mean I dislike the game. It's possible to dislike a section of a game you like.
No, it’s pretty likely if you’re actually exploring.

Also if you found you’ve missed one it’s easy to figure out the general area it will be in based on where you found the one directly above or below it.
 

Gaelyon

Member
Do people remember the first souls with weapon and armor durability ? How "fun" it was to have your favorite weapon breaking during a fight and constantly paying to repair your stuff and carrying expensive repair stones ?
Yet durability is gone and i don't think souls games are worse because of it.

I think OP has a point. I would not be upset with some service at the weaponsmith to transfer + enchantement to another weapon at a cost. It shouldn't need to be free or cheap, but available.
 

peronmls

Member
Do people remember the first souls with weapon and armor durability ? How "fun" it was to have your favorite weapon breaking during a fight and constantly paying to repair your stuff and carrying expensive repair stones ?
Yet durability is gone and i don't think souls games are worse because of it.

I think OP has a point. I would not be upset with some service at the weaponsmith to transfer + enchantement to another weapon at a cost. It shouldn't need to be free or cheap, but available.
I like repairing my armor and weapon in DS1. Stops you from attacking through walls and AI framing through status elements. You can use repair powder on the fly. You dont lose your weapon. I killed too many bosses and enemies in Elden Ring by simply attacking through walls and objects.
 

ANDS

Thought gaf was racist. Now knows better, honorary gaffer 2022
This exemplifies everything I am talking about. Getting so mad for a basic complaint.

You just fast-read through some random stuff in the thread, and for some reason believe I want to know the properties of unseen weapons? you sound like your drunk or something.

That other thread was about quest logs, and has nothing to do with this. What is peak internet, is when people slap everything into categories with zero nuance or context.

No one is mad here mate, don't flatter yourself. Well, actually you should flatter yourself - for giving everyone a good laugh.

And have I read all of your comments between the first page (which I responded to) and this page (which I have responded to) and your point remains the same. And yes, your basic argument does boil down to: "Why can't I know if this weapon will be good for my current build?" All the "horrors" that you've touched further on, all fall from this particular tree of woe from you.

. . .and the other thread was about not needing accessibility options. This thread is you bemoaning the lack of accessibility options. That you haven't said this directly doesn't change that. But sure, it's everyone else who is wrong.
 

Azurro

Gold Member
I don't know what your point is here. Of course I check the moveset before I upgrade. But when I do find something I wanna try, I am locked behind grinding for stones and respecing. What other RPG does this exactly? cause usually when you find a sword, you can use it if you are a sword class.

You know you can buy the stones, right? The "grind" takes like 15 minutes from 0 stones. Here you can also use swords if you level up str and dex. I don't see your point, you want all weapons to be at max from the moment you pick them up. Either that or you don't like being able to upgrade weapons.

That's a you problem, not a problem with the game.
 

OZ9000

Gold Member
To be fair..
I use cheats on pc.

But is it really a cheat if it saves you 200 hours of chores and grinding?

If one is into that, do you.
But for me Elden Ring is just another game.

And with tons more on the way plus backlog i can't be bothered with that kind of nonsense.
Unlike From Software, I value my time.
There is nothing more pointless than grinding for an item in a video game.

This is why PC gaming remains supreme. Allows you to skip all the B.S. and get straight to the point.

I don't enjoy games where I'm forced to do X task repeatedly just to level up or acquire an item. It's a waste of good time.
 

MHubert

Member
I have a 9+ magic sword (somber smithing stones), I wanna try a new one. I won't be able to tell if it's better than the one I have unless I respec and also get it to +9. The moment you lack a few stones it becomes a hassle.
Okay but what do you mean by better? As in outputting more overall damage than your current sword? Because every weapon has their ups and downs
 

daveonezero

Member
I remembered when I played dark souls for first time ever in 2011, I just played with weapons I liked. I had no idea and didn’t really noticed scaling letter at the bottom. True whole concept is weird but actually genius. It’s obtuse only at first but.

They only issue I have is that you have to look up final damage. There is no way of telling if a weapon will end as a b or s scaling
There are people crunching the numbers. The scaling means nothing until end game maxed out weapons.
There is nothing more pointless than grinding for an item in a video game.

This is why PC gaming remains supreme. Allows you to skip all the B.S. and get straight to the point.

I don't enjoy games where I'm forced to do X task repeatedly just to level up or acquire an item. It's a waste of good time.
and in a game like that it is your choice but that removes all the reward of discovery and growth. It is an RPG more like Diablo. It isn't an action game.
 
The biggest issue I have had with the game concerns the target lock. Specifically 'switch target' being mapped to the right thumb-stick. There are options to modify lock behaviour in the controller settings but no option to unbind 'switch target' from the right thumb-stick. I can't tell you how many times I have been killed when fighting a group of enemies due to unintentional target lock auto switch. Even a goat 100m away can auto lock during combat leaving you at times wide open. I'm baffled at how this made it through test with no option to disable as it has terribly impacted my enjoyment of the game. I wish the game would let me manually control the target lock. I'd be in so much more control when engaging multiple enemies.
 

Azurro

Gold Member
There is nothing more pointless than grinding for an item in a video game.

This is why PC gaming remains supreme. Allows you to skip all the B.S. and get straight to the point.

I don't enjoy games where I'm forced to do X task repeatedly just to level up or acquire an item. It's a waste of good time.

Funny, isn't WoW a PC game? Diablo 2? Grinding was invented in PC gaming dawg.
 

Keihart

Gold Member
The biggest issue I have had with the game concerns the target lock. Specifically 'switch target' being mapped to the right thumb-stick. There are options to modify lock behaviour in the controller settings but no option to unbind 'switch target' from the right thumb-stick. I can't tell you how many times I have been killed when fighting a group of enemies due to unintentional target lock auto switch. Even a goat 100m away can auto lock during combat leaving you at times wide open. I'm baffled at how this made it through test with no option to disable as it has terribly impacted my enjoyment of the game. I wish the game would let me manually control the target lock. I'd be in so much more control when engaging multiple enemies.
there are lock on options, you can disable it and some other more nuanced options.
 

Keihart

Gold Member
There are lock options but no way to switch off the 'switch target' map to right thumb-stick. If you read the description of lock settings you will see what I mean.
ah, yeah, i thought you had some other problem since you talked about manually controlling target lock.

Anyway, yeah, it would be cool if that was mapeable too, but as it is, i don't see a better mapping either, the right stick is free when locking on so it makes sense.
 

WolfusFh

Member
Always fun to read these salty tirades when new From games come out. Even trying to sound condescending by using the word 'buddy' while whinging about how he needs help playing his video games. Hilarious.
Not as hilarious as FS fanboys being unable to handle any negative criticism towards these games, and instead always resorting to some variation of "lol git gud argument".

Also not as hilarious as FS fanboys praising the games for being "true games without handholding" while simultaneously resorting to guides and external help.

And keep in mind, I have 0 issues with guides or researches, and I think that the games are playable without them for the most part. But if someone shits on other games due to "handholding", then that person shouldn't resort to any external help, as that is also handholding,.
 

Chiggs

Gold Member
Whiny Bitches: The Thread

Seriously, how are some of you planning to make it in the real world? You know, when your doting mommy no longer provides you with constant encouragement and plates full of chicken tendies, delivered straight to your basement door?

Life is a whole lot harder than a From game, especially one which lets you take off all your clothes, hop over a wall and cheesefuck one of the hardest bosses in the game.

Pathetic little babies. It’s a video game. Adjust your bras, rub some Vaseline on your fat, chafing thighs and kindly shut the fuck up.
 
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Spaceman292

Member
Not as hilarious as FS fanboys being unable to handle any negative criticism towards these games, and instead always resorting to some variation of "lol git gud argument".

Also not as hilarious as FS fanboys praising the games for being "true games without handholding" while simultaneously resorting to guides and external help.

And keep in mind, I have 0 issues with guides or researches, and I think that the games are playable without them for the most part. But if someone shits on other games due to "handholding", then that person shouldn't resort to any external help, as that is also handholding,.
The game has a few issues, but this specific argument about not being able to use all the weapons is just dumb. That's why the From fans are shitting on him.

There's a big difference between occasionally looking up the location of a smithing stone to the game being filled with arrows and markers and dialogue constantly telling you exactly where to go.
 

daveonezero

Member
The game has a few issues, but this specific argument about not being able to use all the weapons is just dumb. That's why the From fans are shitting on him.

There's a big difference between occasionally looking up the location of a smithing stone to the game being filled with arrows and markers and dialogue constantly telling you exactly where to go.
It is basically the accessibility argument.
 

Tomeru

Member
There is nothing more pointless than grinding for an item in a video game.

This is why PC gaming remains supreme. Allows you to skip all the B.S. and get straight to the point.

I don't enjoy games where I'm forced to do X task repeatedly just to level up or acquire an item. It's a waste of good time.
 

RafterXL

Member
There is nothing more pointless than grinding for an item in a video game.

This is why PC gaming remains supreme. Allows you to skip all the B.S. and get straight to the point.

I don't enjoy games where I'm forced to do X task repeatedly just to level up or acquire an item. It's a waste of good time.
What does this have to do with Elden Ring? You don't grind for weapons or gear.
 

Majukun

Member
Just because you personally don’t like its weapon system its not game’s problem. It’s way it is because its wants you specializing your build which I like it a lot.
the problem doesn't come with you needing to specialise, but with you being denied the freedom to find your favorite build in the first place.
soul veterans already know what to expect..but newbies can't know what they like until they tried, and they can only try a severely limited amount of possible builds because of the stat requirement.

option to respec can mitigate, but it's given fairly far into the game and needs a limited resource

other

it's not an insurmuntable obstacle, but i can see people wanting a way to switch between builds more readily
 
the problem doesn't come with you needing to specialise, but with you being denied the freedom to find your favorite build in the first place.
soul veterans already know what to expect..but newbies can't know what they like until they tried, and they can only try a severely limited amount of possible builds because of the stat requirement.

option to respec can mitigate, but it's given fairly far into the game and needs a limited resource

other

it's not an insurmuntable obstacle, but i can see people wanting a way to switch between builds more readily
You got it backwards. RPG is about making as many builds viable as possible. You start with a weapon that you think is cool, and you build around that. And the upgrades do not change how you play it, it just increases the damage numbers. So all the base weapons in the starting area is meant to let you pick. And if there is something cool you want to try you can put stats into it.

The point here is that if you are not minmaxing, then there is no wrong weapon and we have no issues. But if you want to be overpowers ASAP then just follow a guide. The maximum damage of a weapon has nothing to do with if you would enjoy using it or not.

For example, I noticed that most players don't use a mace, it isn't in the meta lately. But that doesn't mean you can't use a mace or that you shouldn't use a mace.
 

K2D

Gold Member
This is why i'm almost 40 hours in and still walking with +3 weapons and level 1 summons.

I don't wanna commit on anything because i fear to screw up things.

People said that respec items are not rare but in 40 hours i only have one, same for summons upgrade materials, and i explore a lot.

It is the from way, many people love it, i understand why it is this way, but it is indeed a bit annoying.
Dude, you're suffering from analysis paralysis.. I'm 35, probably in a not much different place in life than you, and ONLY have one weapon upgraded after I eventually came to like. The game gives you semi upgraded weapons later on, and ashes of war let's you dabble with elementals/affinities.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Dude, you're suffering from analysis paralysis.. I'm 35, probably in a not much different place in life than you, and ONLY have one weapon upgraded after I eventually came to like. The game gives you semi upgraded weapons later on, and ashes of war let's you dabble with elementals/affinities.
I know, but now the situation is a bit better, i gave a couple of orbs to the 2 headed milf and now i can buy +4 stones, both normal and somber.

I still think 50 times before spending materials tho :lollipop_squinting:
 
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iQuasarLV

Member
Yea man when you find your miner's bell berings upgrading becomes a fun little side game of "What If."

I just finally upgraded my Sacred Blade to +10 last night after 180 hours. Now I have a +10 staff, +10 blood sword, +10 holy sword, +10 shield. Options open up near end game.
 
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