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I don't understand why people aren't calling out the atrocious weapon system in Elden Ring

Bragr

Member
Okay, then you must understand that a "cool system and core part of the game" is literally player-written guides? Whether they're in or out of the game is irrelevant, you need an internet connection to see both. "be wary of left" and "hidden path ahead" are the same as someone outside of the game telling you that a +25 sword does X damage. It's someone playing the game and imparting that knowledge to you so that you don't have to find out yourself.

If you wanna completely cut out every single social aspect of a game designed with it in mind, that's your prerogative, play how you like - but the reason your criticisms fall flat is because you made the choice to play in that very specific way, and calling a system designed around it "bad" just doesn't track. The rest of us are all looking up weapon tables online rather than burning through limited upgrade resources for this very reason, but the game DOES let you do that if you absolutely have to. It just doesn't benefit you in any way whatsoever to do so.

My bottom line is that when we start streamlining and condensing systems to make them more approachable, we might as well just remove them entirely. And when you remove one system entirely in the interest of making things simpler, you start removing more and more systems, and you lose what makes the game special in the first place. Take it from a very long time WoW player who saw the game transform from an RPG into a MOBA gradually over more than a decade, decisions that might seem impractical on the surface might actually serve to benefit the game overall.
Those "player guides" are valid and if people like that, perfectly fine. But it's not irrelevant if they are in-game or not. They tell you things as you explore, and they don't explain things beforehand through entire builds and sections of the game.

Don't you see the irony in people using builds and guides so they can tolerate the game?

It's not about streamlining it or dumbing it down. Are we supposed to excuse every FromSoftware design decision because we are afraid they will streamline the entire game? do you think all their systems are perfect and should never be touched? of course not. It's valid to question some of the things in their games. That doesn't mean it's gonna turn into WoW. FromSoftware games should be judged like any other game, we can't just say that any change is automatically dumbing it down.
 

Radical_3d

Member
wow
first time GIF
 

Hari Seldon

Gold Member
Okay, then you must understand that a "cool system and core part of the game" is literally player-written guides? Whether they're in or out of the game is irrelevant, you need an internet connection to see both. "be wary of left" and "hidden path ahead" are the same as someone outside of the game telling you that a +25 sword does X damage. It's someone playing the game and imparting that knowledge to you so that you don't have to find out yourself.

If you wanna completely cut out every single social aspect of a game designed with it in mind, that's your prerogative, play how you like - but the reason your criticisms fall flat is because you made the choice to play in that very specific way, and calling a system designed around it "bad" just doesn't track. The rest of us are all looking up weapon tables online rather than burning through limited upgrade resources for this very reason, but the game DOES let you do that if you absolutely have to. It just doesn't benefit you in any way whatsoever to do so.

My bottom line is that when we start streamlining and condensing systems to make them more approachable, we might as well just remove them entirely. And when you remove one system entirely in the interest of making things simpler, you start removing more and more systems, and you lose what makes the game special in the first place. Take it from a very long time WoW player who saw the game transform from an RPG into a MOBA gradually over more than a decade, decisions that might seem impractical on the surface might actually serve to benefit the game overall.
Your point falls flat because online play, at least on the PS5, requires PSplus. There is no way in fuck that I am paying for that service just to see hints. I'm thinking of selling my PS5 copy and getting a PC copy when this game is on a deep discount in a year or so, because it seems I have a gimped version.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Don't you see the irony in people using builds and guides so they can tolerate the game?

It's not about streamlining it or dumbing it down. Are we supposed to excuse every FromSoftware design decision because we are afraid they will streamline the entire game? do you think all their systems are perfect and should never be touched? of course not. It's valid to question some of the things in their games. That doesn't mean it's gonna turn into WoW. FromSoftware games should be judged like any other game, we can't just say that any change is automatically dumbing it down.

I just don't agree that it's about tolerance. I could have beaten Elden Ring without looking a single thing up, but even in a world where all weapons automatically scaled to your highest smithing stone, would you STILL manually go through writing down those damage values yourself to find the highest? Would the complaint now become "From should add a weapon table to make it easier to check"? Or would you buckle and just use the online table everyone else does?

I also don't think ER is without faults, I just don't think the weapon upgrade system is one of them because it's already so much more lenient than every previous Souls game, AND it's well established at this point that these games are community-driven efforts of knowledge. It's part of their DNA and it's not inherently bad, you just don't like it, which is also fine. Frankly the only "intolerable" thing about ER is some of the technical issues I had which you won't find me defending.

Your point falls flat because online play, at least on the PS5, requires PSplus. There is no way in fuck that I am paying for that service just to see hints. I'm thinking of selling my PS5 copy and getting a PC copy when this game is on a deep discount in a year or so, because it seems I have a gimped version.

That's not a decision made by the game's creators and you are absolutely right to be annoyed by it, but it can't be used as a slight against the game design when they didn't design it.

Heading offline so sorry if I don't reply to people until tomorrow but I got my points across, the game is what it is, not without flaws but I don't think this is one.
 
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Tg89

Member
The game literally throws stones at you and the items to make them purchasable are hardly difficult to come by if you're actually exploring...

Also you can easily test out a weapons moveset before fully committing to it, go back to an earlier area, equip it and fuck around on some low level enemies.

Bad take.
 
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Azurro

Gold Member
I didn't hit a wall, lol, you are making up a story here. I am still playing and enjoying it.

All I am saying is, that the weapon system should be more forthcoming to exploration. If the game requires I comb through every mine over and over to find a stone, it's a bad system.

I am blaming the game, as I should. But I'm not saying it's a massive problem, but a problem. It's not that dramatic.

So, you expect the weapon system to be like Devil May Cry. Stupid point.
 

Spaceman292

Member
If the game doesn't need a guide, then that shouldn't be a suggestion. That's the whole point. If there are in-game strategies for solving the problem, then that would be the suggestions. That's what OP criticized. Try to pay attention to the discussion, buddy. I know you're slow on this "argumentation" thing, but try to keep up.

Oh, yes, I'm such a bad gamer, oh.
It's amazingly obvious that you are unable to handle criticism, and you lack any logical ability to have a proper discussion.
If you had any resemblance of logic, you would've noticed that I'm supporting OP's points, and trying to make them even more clear, since you are so painfully unable to comprehend it. You don't need hand holding in games, but you sure need them a lot in any form of debate.

Besides, as to your silly "point". I've played much harder and better games before, buddy. Hollow knight is one of my favorite platformers. Turns out the difficulty is actually fun.
You won't get anywhere with your shitty "lol git gud" garbage argument here.
Always fun to read these salty tirades when new From games come out. Even trying to sound condescending by using the word 'buddy' while whinging about how he needs help playing his video games. Hilarious.
 

Bragr

Member
Just because you personally don’t like its weapon system its not game’s problem. It’s way it is because its wants you specializing your build which I like it a lot.
I don't mind specializing towards a build, I am talking about the hassle of trying a new weapon, that's when it falls apart.
 

Bragr

Member
I just don't agree that it's about tolerance. I could have beaten Elden Ring without looking a single thing up, but even in a world where all weapons automatically scaled to your highest smithing stone, would you STILL manually go through writing down those damage values yourself to find the highest? Would the complaint now become "From should add a weapon table to make it easier to check"? Or would you buckle and just use the online table everyone else does?

I also don't think ER is without faults, I just don't think the weapon upgrade system is one of them because it's already so much more lenient than every previous Souls game, AND it's well established at this point that these games are community-driven efforts of knowledge. It's part of their DNA and it's not inherently bad, you just don't like it, which is also fine. Frankly the only "intolerable" thing about ER is some of the technical issues I had which you won't find me defending.
I could also finish Elden Ring without looking anything up, I could also finish The Last of Us with melee only. That doesn't mean it's a good thing.

I'm not talking about auto-scaling weapons, that would be silly, but the bell bearings should not be based on looking up guides. Just because it's more lenient doesn't mean it was a good system before. In fact, the massive scale of Elden Ring and the massive amount of weapons lean more to trying new builds than any other of their games. I found it easier to find what I needed in the past.

It's only well established that it's community-driven among the community, tons of people, it not most, still want to play it clean and discover on their own.
 

DavidGzz

Member
It wasn't that big of an issue in the previous From games seeing as they weren't 100+ hour long games. If you wanted to try another build or weapons you just started a new playthrough.
Elden Ring is a long games and the thought of having to start all over again just to try out something new is unintuitive to say the least. At least you can respec so that's great, but I agree that changing weapons is very costly and bit of a hassle.

This is wrong. I've started several characters. You can skip so much of the game that you can be where you were in 1/10th the time when you know what you're doing and what you're looking for. I just started a new faith build 2 hours ago. I'm further than my 1st character that has 30 hours. I don't have to fully explore, I just went for the items I needed and used a power leveling spot. Hell, there are sub 30 min speed runs of the game.
 

Bragr

Member
The game literally throws stones at you and the items to make them purchasable are hardly difficult to come by if you're actually exploring...

Also you can easily test out a weapons moveset before fully committing to it, go back to an earlier area, equip it and fuck around on some low level enemies.

Bad take.
No, you can't, the weapons change scales as you upgrade them, and you can't figure out how the magic, bleed or whatever effect is gonna scale compared to your already high-level weapon. You need to waste the stones and respec to test out weapons, and it's very easy to end up missing a few stones and have to go back and search.
 
No, you can't, the weapons change scales as you upgrade them, and you can't figure out how the magic, bleed or whatever effect is gonna scale compared to your already high-level weapon. You need to waste the stones and respec to test out weapons, and it's very easy to end up missing a few stones and have to go back and search.
Are you trying to minmax, or are you trying to pick a weapon?
You don't seem to understand that the entire point is that every weapon is viable. You are given so many options for upgrades, not to confuse you, but so that you can stick to a particular choice and still not be punished for "getting off the meta".

This is an RPG. So the game is giving you options, most of which are viable if you want them to be. There is no wrong choices. You can roleplay the way you want.

This includes using a Bouquet of flowers as your weapon of choice.
 
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Bragr

Member
Are you trying to minmax, or are you trying to pick a weapon?
You don't seem to understand that the entire point is that every weapon is viable. You are given so many options for upgrades, not to confuse you, but so that you can stick to a particular choice and still not be punished for "getting off the meta".

This is an RPG. So the game is giving you options, most of which are viable if you want them to be. There is no wrong choices. You can roleplay the way you want.
I am just trying to find something else, that's all. I don't give a care about minmaxing.

Melee is also viable, doesn't mean I wanna use it.

I wanna use a weapon I like, that can measure up to what I am using and fits my playstyle.

The whole point is I can't roleplay how I want, there are too many barriers. I want to be a fast-sword guy, but the game doesn't give you the information you need to understand the weapons unless you upgrade them or look at a guide. You have to upgrade them to see how they scale, and to figure out how their effects work.

Early game this is not an issue, but later, you need too much stuff to get it to a good level. You are locked into a few weapons.
 

DelireMan7

Member
Early game this is not an issue, but later, you need too much stuff to get it to a good level. You are locked into a few weapons.
Curious to know your stats.

I am a FAITH/STR (35/25+8 (Talisman)) build (96 hours, around lvl 90) and I have a lot of weapons I can use.
I can only buy the standard stone level 1/2 and I tested (meaning significantly investing resources into) 8 weapons.
I also play completely blind. Also I am not a number addict and don't mind if a new weapon is a bit less efficient, as long as I like the moveset, I am fine.

I see your complaints about the upgrade system and I can partially agree on the upgrading material being somehow rare. To be fair around 30/40 hours I was a bit block to upgrade new weapons but it quickly resolved.
I think there is some exaggeration in what you say.
 

Bragr

Member
Curious to know your stats.

I am a FAITH/STR (35/25+8 (Talisman)) build (96 hours, around lvl 90) and I have a lot of weapons I can use.
I can only buy the standard stone level 1/2 and I tested (meaning significantly investing resources into) 8 weapons.
I also play completely blind. Also I am not a number addict and don't mind if a new weapon is a bit less efficient, as long as I like the moveset, I am fine.

I see your complaints about the upgrade system and I can partially agree on the upgrading material being somehow rare. To be fair around 30/40 hours I was a bit block to upgrade new weapons but it quickly resolved.
I think there is some exaggeration in what you say.
I don't understand, completely blind? how does that work? I thought games only featured toolsets for partially blind to play. If that is the case, that's really cool.

I am around level 100, mostly just pure strength build.

I didn't have any issues early on, as you don't need as many resources, and it's easy to get a decent measure of how a weapon functions and it's easy to find level 1-4 smithing stones. But when I am level 100, you need too much of it, and it can lead to the player having to go back and search, something which is too cumbersome for a simple weapon test.

People seem to argue that since the game is playable with every weapon on a low level and it scales with my stats, it's ok and I should manage. But it's not about that, it's about being able to test a sword to see if I like it without having to run around the map searching for stuff.

I can't recall any other RPG that features this sort of limiting system. Either way, you may be right that I exaggerate, it's just the nature of the conversation, people refuse to accept that sometimes FromSoftware misses the mark on some things and I get annoyed.
 

Tg89

Member
I am just trying to find something else, that's all. I don't give a care about minmaxing.

Melee is also viable, doesn't mean I wanna use it.

I wanna use a weapon I like, that can measure up to what I am using and fits my playstyle.

The whole point is I can't roleplay how I want, there are too many barriers. I want to be a fast-sword guy, but the game doesn't give you the information you need to understand the weapons unless you upgrade them or look at a guide. You have to upgrade them to see how they scale, and to figure out how their effects work.

Early game this is not an issue, but later, you need too much stuff to get it to a good level. You are locked into a few weapons.
You're way overcomplicating it. All weapons are viable and can be used to beat the game. If you like the move set then use it, that won’t change with scaling. There’s also no cases of weapons that just scale terribly. If you’re looking for the most overpowered weapon then you might as well just Google it.

Also, you’re never locked to anything, you can buy all the upgrade materials needed to get to +24 or +9.
 

DelireMan7

Member
I don't understand, completely blind? how does that work? I thought games only featured toolsets for partially blind to play. If that is the case, that's really cool.
Hum misunderstanding. I mean "blind" in a sense I don't look outside information xD

People seem to argue that since the game is playable with every weapon on a low level and it scales with my stats, it's ok and I should manage. But it's not about that, it's about being able to test a sword to see if I like it without having to run around the map searching for stuff.
This I don't get. For me testing a weapon is about to equip it and test the moveset. Anyway if you upgrade it a bit it will be fine. But again I am not into numbers.
But I guess if "testing" a weapon is upgrading it to high level to see the damage, yes this game can be frustrating.

I agree that the upgrading material can be rare to find. It doesn't disturb me but I see why it can annoy some.
I don't know if it's a bad or good thing. I personally like that it put weight on your choice of weapons.
 

Keihart

Gold Member
I am just trying to find something else, that's all. I don't give a care about minmaxing.

Melee is also viable, doesn't mean I wanna use it.

I wanna use a weapon I like, that can measure up to what I am using and fits my playstyle.

The whole point is I can't roleplay how I want, there are too many barriers. I want to be a fast-sword guy, but the game doesn't give you the information you need to understand the weapons unless you upgrade them or look at a guide. You have to upgrade them to see how they scale, and to figure out how their effects work.

Early game this is not an issue, but later, you need too much stuff to get it to a good level. You are locked into a few weapons.
Read that again please, your point is rubbish.

You can try and see the moveset of most weapons, even when not measuring up to the stats required to use it efficiently, the only thing locked behind the stats is the skill of the weapon which you still get to see but without their special properties.

Then again, this has nothing to even do with the upgrading of the weapon but your stats.
So again, what is exactly your problem with it? you say you are not min maxing but your whole critism seems to be around not knowing exactly how much damage does a weapon before you upgrade it, that is fucking rudiculous.
That has nothing to do with how you get resources, because even if your blind enough to not stumble with the bosses to get bell bearings, the game still gives you a whole buch to use on a couple weapons through the critical path of the game. Wich has nothing to do with "testing weapons"

If you are not min maxing, any weapon has good enough damage.
 
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I don't understand, completely blind? how does that work? I thought games only featured toolsets for partially blind to play. If that is the case, that's really cool.

I am around level 100, mostly just pure strength build.

I didn't have any issues early on, as you don't need as many resources, and it's easy to get a decent measure of how a weapon functions and it's easy to find level 1-4 smithing stones. But when I am level 100, you need too much of it, and it can lead to the player having to go back and search, something which is too cumbersome for a simple weapon test.

People seem to argue that since the game is playable with every weapon on a low level and it scales with my stats, it's ok and I should manage. But it's not about that, it's about being able to test a sword to see if I like it without having to run around the map searching for stuff.

I can't recall any other RPG that features this sort of limiting system. Either way, you may be right that I exaggerate, it's just the nature of the conversation, people refuse to accept that sometimes FromSoftware misses the mark on some things and I get annoyed.
I am confusion.

You said you want to be a "fast-sword guy" but you are pure strength build? That's not how Str builds work......
 

Bragr

Member
You're way overcomplicating it. All weapons are viable and can be used to beat the game. If you like the move set then use it, that won’t change with scaling. There’s also no cases of weapons that just scale terribly. If you’re looking for the most overpowered weapon then you might as well just Google it.

Also, you’re never locked to anything, you can buy all the upgrade materials needed to get to +24 or +9.
But this is what I have been saying this entire time. To find all the bell bearings, you either have to be lucky and come across all of them or use a guide. Both are bad and are symptoms of a bad weapon upgrade system.

The point here is, I don't want hand-holding, I'm trying to play it through exploration and discovery. And even if I started to look at guides, its tedious to walk through the map to pick up what I need from a sheet of paper. That's a glorified fetch-quest. It shouldn't be this cumbersome. This is not a good system for a simple weapon switch.

Again, if these sorts of arguments were used in other games "every weapon is viable so don't complain that you can't pick the ones you want or have to grind to upgrade them", there would be hell to pay. This is not a great argument.
 

Bragr

Member
Read that again please, your point is rubbish.

You can try and see the moveset of most weapons, even when not measuring up to the stats required to use it efficiently, the only thing locked behind the stats is the skill of the weapon which you still get to see but without their special properties.

Then again, this has nothing to even do with the upgrading of the weapon but your stats.
So again, what is exactly your problem with it? you say you are not min maxing but your whole critism seems to be around not knowing exactly how much damage does a weapon before you upgrade it, that is fucking rudiculous.
That has nothing to do with how you get resources, because even if your blind enough to not stumble with the bosses to get bell bearings, the game still gives you a whole buch to use on a couple weapons through the critical path of the game. Wich has nothing to do with "testing weapons"

If you are not min maxing, any weapon has good enough damage.
This is a dumb way to brush away issues. Using weapons without stones is a big difference. A +1 and a +9 weapon is a completely different beast. Just because I am not minmaxing doesn't mean I wanna play the game with a twig and no clothes and ignore stones altogether. The critical path isn't as generous as you think with its somber stones later on.

If you don't use stones on your weapons, the game is a worse game, it fucks the balance. Elden Ring needs stones to be a great game and it's built for it.

And no, stats alone don't tell the full story on weapon performance like you think it does.
 
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Bragr

Member
I am confusion.

You said you want to be a "fast-sword guy" but you are pure strength build? That's not how Str builds work......
Good, because I don't need guides to tell me "hoW iT WoRKS".

I am a tank-strength motherfucker with heavy armor with fast swords like the crystal sword or the katana.
 

Bragr

Member
Hum misunderstanding. I mean "blind" in a sense I don't look outside information xD


This I don't get. For me testing a weapon is about to equip it and test the moveset. Anyway if you upgrade it a bit it will be fine. But again I am not into numbers.
But I guess if "testing" a weapon is upgrading it to high level to see the damage, yes this game can be frustrating.

I agree that the upgrading material can be rare to find. It doesn't disturb me but I see why it can annoy some.
I don't know if it's a bad or good thing. I personally like that it put weight on your choice of weapons.
It's the way you said it "i am completely blind", haha. Didn't sound like you talked about the game.
 
Good, because I don't need guides to tell me "hoW iT WoRKS".

I am a tank-strength motherfucker with heavy armor with fast swords like the crystal sword or the katana.
Ok but katanas and fast swords don't usually scale well with pure Strength, and you said you were trying to figure out scaling/damage issues. It's just my advice. It's also why I suggested using the Golden Halberd earlier, because I use the same playstyle you do and it's a Str weapon (I have 50 Str). Katanas and fast swords usually need Dex or a "quality" build (mix of Str and Dex) to get the most out of their damage scaling. I know you can change scaling using Ashes of War but I don't know how viable that is.
 

fart town usa

Gold Member
I don't see an issue with the weapons system. It takes time to become a melee/magic tank in the game and for good reason.

Early builds should focus on one aspect (either casting or melee) and then branch out for there. I'm just now getting my endurance up so I can wear a full set of armor, my str/dex is good. After endurance it'll be vigor, and then faith/int/arcane so I can cast magic and not get one shot by the more difficult bosses.

Unless you're an absolute master with dodging, the game is gonna take 100+ hours to dominate over things and even then you'll still get your ass handed to you by certain enemies. The game never turns into a cakewalk for most people.
 

Tg89

Member
But this is what I have been saying this entire time. To find all the bell bearings, you either have to be lucky and come across all of them or use a guide. Both are bad and are symptoms of a bad weapon upgrade system.

The point here is, I don't want hand-holding, I'm trying to play it through exploration and discovery. And even if I started to look at guides, its tedious to walk through the map to pick up what I need from a sheet of paper. That's a glorified fetch-quest. It shouldn't be this cumbersome. This is not a good system for a simple weapon switch.

Again, if these sorts of arguments were used in other games "every weapon is viable so don't complain that you can't pick the ones you want or have to grind to upgrade them", there would be hell to pay. This is not a great argument.
Lucky? I unno man I found all of them just playing the game. Are you even exploring?

You say you don't want handholding and you want to explore and discover but it sounds like you're not doing that.

It's a great system, maybe not the game for you though.
 

MHubert

Member
I never played a game that has so many barriers for a simple weapon change. I almost feel like I have to restart the entire game just to use a new weapon.

I'm towards the end of the game. I have a weapon I have been using for around 40 hours that is upgraded to + 8 that I am sick and tired of. I want to use a sword that is fast, but any other sword of that nature needs completely different attributes to work. I had to respec all my skills toward an INT focus and use all my smithing stones on it. I did so.

But the new weapon turned out to be disappointing, so I had to respec my character back to the old stats to keep progressing in the game.

I have TONS of weapons, but almost all of them require different player stats, and now I have nowhere near the smithing stones needed to upgrade any one of them to a usable level. I know there are items I can give to the crones so I can buy smithing stones, but it's almost impossible to find them all without guides. Same with the larvae I need for respec, I only have one left.

I either have to use guides (which is like cheating for me) or restart the game so I can re-find enough resources to upgrade a new weapon. It's forcing you to replay massive parts of the game to scrounge for upgrade materials or start the game over.

FromSoftware has been doing stuff like this for a long time, intentionally designing systems in ways that require players to use the internet to find things out, it's free marketing for them if players do that, it's incredibly cheap. But this weapon system right here is complete nonsense. I'm not sure if people are too afraid to call out dumb stuff in excellent games, but this is some bullshit.
Nothing is limiting you from trying out the moveset of any weapon, and no weapon is 'bad' in itself - obviously you can't max out every weapon that's not how the game is. Am I misunderstanding something?
 

brian0057

Member
Normal person: "Hey, this mechanic is a bit cumbersome to use. I wish they fixed it."
Deranged Souls fan: "Oh, you want an easy mode? Why don't you just git gud and stop bitching about it. Google exists for a reason"

There's no nuance with these people.
 
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daveonezero

Member
Normal person: "Hey, this mechanic is a bit cumbersome to use. I wish they fixed it."
Deranged Souls fan: "Oh, you want an easy mode? Why don't you just git gud and stop bitching about it. Google exists for a reason"

There's no nuance with these people.
Changing this system in the game would change how builds and weapons work. There isn't a "fix" without changing the design of the game.

Look at Diablo 2. You couldn't respec and had to Min Max. Then the developers listened to all that and made Diablo 3 which made choices have no reward or consequence.

From Soft just keeps refining the same system instead of changing it at the whim of the audience. They don't care if some people don't like it. And that is paying off.

There are tons of work arounds for the OPs problem. Not to mention he keeps moving the goal posts.
 
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Normal person: "Hey, this mechanic is a bit cumbersome to use. I wish they fixed it."
Deranged Souls fan: "Oh, you want an easy mode? Why don't you just git gud and stop bitching about it. Google exists for a reason"

There's no nuance with these people.
Normal person: "Hey, this mechanic is a bit cumbersome to use. I wish they fixed it."

Normal Person 2: Have you learned about the way the systems work? There's lot's of available information to be found.

Deranged Neogaf Poster: I DON'T WANT TO LEARN, IT MUST BE MADE EASY FOR ME AND I DON'T WANT TO TRY, WHY SHOULD I GO ONLINE TO LEARN TO PLAY A GAME WHEN I CAN SPEND TIME COMPLAINING ONLINE ABOUT IT INSTEAD?? FS ARE BAD DEVELOPERS AND HAVE HORRIBLE GAME DESIGN!

Normal Person 2:

 
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Keihart

Gold Member
This is a dumb way to brush away issues. Using weapons without stones is a big difference. A +1 and a +9 weapon is a completely different beast. Just because I am not minmaxing doesn't mean I wanna play the game with a twig and no clothes and ignore stones altogether. The critical path isn't as generous as you think with its somber stones later on.

If you don't use stones on your weapons, the game is a worse game, it fucks the balance. Elden Ring needs stones to be a great game and it's built for it.

And no, stats alone don't tell the full story on weapon performance like you think it does.
What difference is there beside the moves between weapons? Just the damage numbers and scaling, wich is not really something important at the moment to pick a weapon unless you are just minmaxing.
Using the weapon at +20 is not testing it, that is especializing and investing on a weapon.

Your critism is rubish, you have no argument on why the upgrade system is bad.
 
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Azurro

Gold Member
Stop trying to pretend I am saying something I am not. Go back to your katana build and cheese through some bosses with your guide.

That's what you are saying, right? That you want to be able to test out every weapon at the max level every time? Wait, not even Devil May Cry lets you do that. This is still an RPG with classes, you want it to be something it's not. You test the moveset, go fight a few enemies, if you like it then you invest in upgrading it, I have no idea why you upgrade a weapon before even knowing if you like the moveset. That's pretty stupid imo.

I haven't used guides either. 🤷 Well, just once after I spent like 15 hours exploring and I forgot what was the next objective. 🤣
 
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iQuasarLV

Member
When it takes dozens of followup posts to solidify the finer points of an argument, you have failed. I cannot believe that you either A: have to move goalposts to better express your frustration, or B: reiterate a talking point in a different fashion to clarify yourself.

You sir, do not even know WHAT you want from the game and expect to post and others to understand your frustration for you.

You had choices from the outset of the game, chose to stick to a singular play-style, and now have either regrets or curiosity. Now you are bitter that you have to invest more gameplay to expore your options as though you spent hours upon hours with that optional item you want to try out. By level 100+ you should have enough stats / money / time invested to know WHAT you are doing. Grab a starter weapon and go back to Limgrave try it out for 30 minutes and see IF the weapon fits your playstyle. THEN go and find a nice one and level that up. Where is this I MUST LEVEL IT TO MAX to see if it is worth a damn philosophy come from?

Sounds more like a bad case of (I want to try the whole menu but pay for a single meal)-itus
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
It feels like OP wants Elden Ring to be like a shooter that you can just pick any weapon on the ground and use it.

No the game is RPG with states and you have to invest on your build. Even in game like Monster Hunter you can pick any weapon you want but to properly use that weapon you have invest on not only learn how to use it but upgrading and getting skills that compliments that weapon.
 

fart town usa

Gold Member
Normal person: "Hey, this mechanic is a bit cumbersome to use. I wish they fixed it."
Deranged Souls fan: "Oh, you want an easy mode? Why don't you just git gud and stop bitching about it. Google exists for a reason"

There's no nuance with these people.
Think about it though.

From Software didn't give a select amount of people an in-depth strategy guide. People were able to figure things out and then wrote guides on them. That in itself shows that anything in the game can be accomplished if you want to go at it completely blind.

Lots of the complaints come off as, "I want to go about this game blind, but I don't want to put in the required effort, so please tweak it so it's easier"

I'm sorry but that doesn't add up. If playing the game blind is too much of a chore, then use a guide. Otherwise, just suck it up and figure it out.
 

Tg89

Member

find the bell bearings, farm runes, buy stones, grow some stones, and enjoy the game :)
nonono.

he doesn't want his hand held, he wants to explore!!! he doesn't want to explore THAT much though!!!
 

Neff

Member
All weapons are viable and can be used to beat the game.

Exactly. Some weapons will scale strongly but will have a weak moveset. Some weapons will scale less well but will have a more versatile moveset to make up for it. Some weapons will scale between multiple stats. At the end of the day they're all pretty well balanced. Picking a weapon is a matter of trying the moveset and deciding if you want to follow its build or not. Upgrade it to maximum level and it's not going to let you down, no matter what it is. It's always been this way.

Normal person: "Hey, this mechanic is a bit cumbersome to use. I wish they fixed it."
Deranged Souls fan: "Oh, you want an easy mode? Why don't you just git gud and stop bitching about it. Google exists for a reason"

There's no nuance with these people.

You've gotta understand- Souls is pretty much the only major game series which completely trusts the player to not be an idiot, to figure things out for themselves, and to take 100% responsibility for their actions, no matter the outcome. It's what makes it so exciting. So naturally we're protective of it and tend to get dismissive when impatient, lazy people stamp their feet and demand that it conforms to a more homogenised norm.

Is Elden Ring perfect? No. But it's really damn good and I wouldn't change a thing.
 
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rofif

Gold Member
There's a lot of obtuse, "fuck you", jank-ass systems in the souls games for decades now that get ignored because some view it as a feature.

I just look at guides for builds and the weapons needed instead of wasting my time and limited resources with trial and error.
I remembered when I played dark souls for first time ever in 2011, I just played with weapons I liked. I had no idea and didn’t really noticed scaling letter at the bottom. True whole concept is weird but actually genius. It’s obtuse only at first but.

They only issue I have is that you have to look up final damage. There is no way of telling if a weapon will end as a b or s scaling
 

ANDS

Thought gaf was racist. Now knows better, honorary gaffer 2022
No, you can't, the weapons change scales as you upgrade them, and you can't figure out how the magic, bleed or whatever effect is gonna scale compared to your already high-level weapon. You need to waste the stones and respec to test out weapons, and it's very easy to end up missing a few stones and have to go back and search.

Holy Christ. You're literally whining that you don't know if this new unseen weapon of yours is going to be good and you want to know, magically I guess, before committing to a weapon. . .whether you should commit to a weapon.

This is absolutely wild. Especially coming from someone who was singing to the rooftops about the exact OPPOSITE of this kind of hand-holding game design in your other Elden Ring thread.

. . .peak internet.
 
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