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[Skeff]

Just to Clarify In a scenario where Developers were to make a basic version of a game without any platform specifics this is how it would be this gen and next gen:

x360 - would need tweaking to work with eDRAM but minimal other change
PS3 - would need to be massively changed to work with CELL+ RSX as a cohesive unit

XB1 - would need tweaking to work with ESRAM but minimal other change
PS4 - Would work. that's how straightforward the architecture is, also the extra 500GFLOPS will just work, you don't need to mess around to get it to work, thats the power of the GPU.

I feel like this post shouldn't have to exist on NeoGAF as the posters here generally should be familiar enough with Console architecture to know these things, but here i am, posting it.

Let's stop the we won't see any differences at first, Graphically the 3D performance of both will be uneven and there isn't any amount of coding neccessary to do this. The difference we'll see in 2-3 years is mainly regarding fine grain GPGPU compute. Theres going to be differences day one and we'll see them in November and they'll be superior on the cheaper box.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Multi-platform games will probably look slightly better on the Xbox One, especially from American devs. This may change if the PS4 greatly outsells the Xbox One in the US, but I highly doubt that will happen, so I expect the Xbox advantage to continue.

 

[Robotziane]

Multi-platform games will probably look slightly better on the Xbox One, especially from American devs. This may change if the PS4 greatly outsells the Xbox One in the US, but I highly doubt that will happen, so I expect the Xbox advantage to continue.

So your saying developers will purposely put less effort in the ps4 version? What you are saying makes little sense.

 

[velociraptor]

I have BF3 on PC and can't tell the difference from High to Ultra. I would expect similar results from Xbox One to PS4. Most common folk won't be able to see a difference at all while the people who really look close at this stuff will. The people that have been acting like this is going to be a Wii to 360/PS3 comparison will be very sad to see how close the games really are to each other.

I think most PC games have negligible differences between 'Ultra' and 'High' settings. Hell, I ran Crysis 3 at a mixture of medium and high for the higher framerates versus maximum settings and it looked just as good.

What constitutes an important 'difference' would be something like missing particle effects, motion blur, post-processing, depth of field, lower resolutions, lower framerates.

Some PS3 ports this gen were absolute garbage. e.g. Saints Row IV.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Unless they spend the time to actually downgrade performance on the PS4, the differences could be there without any effort on the developer's part, like running a game on an i7 w/ a GTX780 vs running it on an i5 w/ a GTX660Ti.

The PS3 managed to match the 360 on some games and it was nowhere near as good.

 

[Timeaisis]

Unless they spend the time to actually downgrade performance on the PS4, the differences could be there without any effort on the developer's part, like running a game on an i7 w/ a GTX780 vs running it on an i5 w/ a GTX660Ti.

Yeah, but that's assuming you adjust the graphic settings, which, obviously, you do if you have a higher-end PC. There's no way they'll have options for that on multiplatform games on PS4.

 

[SoundofSilence]

I was going to say no difference but then Xbox One got a CPU upclock and that is significant!

It's only significant because SCE hasn't revealed the CPU or GPU clock speeds for PS4... yet.

 

[Bald Cleft]

You're living in 2006-2007 honestly.
Things have changed dramatically. The two consoles have almost the same architecture while one has a much stronger GPU and memory system. Xbox One isn't enjoying a year advantage on the market with much better development tools and actually third parties are already showing all their games on PS4

Ubisoft and..

 

[Skeff]

The PS3 managed to match the 360 on some games and it was nowhere near as good.

That was because it offloaded GPU tasks to the SPE's in the CELL which is a very difficult task for a developer and why it happened in so few games, The PS3 is possibly more powerful than the x360 but it is far more difficult to use, the CELL really damaged them and if they had gone with the originol rumored plan of just 2 CELL processors and no GPU's there would be no PS4.

 

[nizerifin]

There's a natural bias toward the 360 in the US. If you're an American developer and everyone you know plays your games on the 360, you're going to make that the best version.

This will continue with the Xbox One which will likely outsell the PS4 in the United States.

 

[ekim]

Just to Clarify In a scenario where Developers were to make a basic version of a game without any platform specifics this is how it would be this gen and next gen:

x360 - would need tweaking to work with eDRAM but minimal other change
PS3 - would need to be massively changed to work with CELL+ RSX as a cohesive unit

XB1 - would need tweaking to work with ESRAM but minimal other change
PS4 - Would work. that's how straightforward the architecture is, also the extra 500GFLOPS will just work, you don't need to mess around to get it to work, thats the power of the GPU.

I feel like this post shouldn't have to exist on NeoGAF as the posters here generally should be familiar enough with Console architecture to know these things, but here i am, posting it.

Let's stop the we won't see any differences at first, Graphically the 3D performance of both will be uneven and there isn't any amount of coding neccessary to do this. The difference we'll see in 2-3 years is mainly regarding fine grain GPGPU compute. Theres going to be differences day one and we'll see them in November and they'll be superior on the cheaper box.

That's what I said - if devs really go forward this easy you will simply get games that bruteforce data in both machines and thus look like the PC version on low/medium. They need to mess around with both architectures.

 

[AngryMoth]

Given the similar architecture and that fact that the ps4 has the advantage in raw numbers, unlike this gen where both platforms had a collection of superior multiplats, I think it's safe to say that no ps4 game will ever look/perform worse than it's xbox one counterpart.

Beyond that though it is tough to say. I've read lots of conflicting stuff and devs are being very diplomatic about the issue. Pretty much everything we've seen has been on a dev kit or pc so you can't really compare that stuff. I don't think we'll understand what differences to expect until the consoles are actually out, maybe even not for a year or so until devs are really taking advantage of the new hardware. With the gpu advantage my guess is ps4 games typically run at a slightly higher resolution or have a few extra effects turned on, but the differences will not be huge and the xbone certainly shouldn't get any horrendous ports like the ps3 had with bayonetta and skyrim.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

Multi-platform games will probably look slightly better on the Xbox One, especially from American devs. This may change if the PS4 greatly outsells the Xbox One in the US, but I highly doubt that will happen, so I expect the Xbox advantage to continue.

As an 'American' I don't understand how you came to these conclusions?
From what I see, the xb1 is not going to dominate the ps4 like the 360 did the ps3. In person and at retail I'm not seeing this American desire for the xb1 your post suggests.

Additionally since the architecture is shared by both consoles and PC, multiplats will use PC as the lead then get ported down to consoles. In this case the ps4 has an advantage.

I'm not seeing this xbox advantage?

There's a natural bias toward the 360 in the US. If you're an American developer and everyone you know plays your games on the 360, you're going to make that the best version.

This will continue with the Xbox One which will likely outsell the PS4 in the United States.

So why didn't the xbox outsell the ps2?
There are a ton of reasons from games, to online, to price, to buying what your friends had that better explain why the 360 was a success. None of those reasons point to Nationalism at all.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

The PS3 managed to match the 360 on some games and it was nowhere near as good.

PS3 managed to whip the 360 when it came to 1st party titles because it was a more powerful machine overall, it was just far more complicated to develop for and 3rd party studios by and large didn't see the need to spend the time to do it.

 

[TheKayle]

“The people that are speculating on this are not our hardware engineers, and we’re not Sony’s hardware engineers,” Penello said when asked about the Xbox One’s power. “I don’t believe that the difference between these two platforms is significant as comparing individual components.”

ps4 better gpu
better bandwith


xb1 faster cpu,audio and seem co processors that could offload things

the system all together? i dont know we will see

IMO is another ps3 x360 gen ..all come to ur taste

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Just to Clarify In a scenario where Developers were to make a basic version of a game without any platform specifics this is how it would be this gen and next gen:

x360 - would need tweaking to work with eDRAM but minimal other change
PS3 - would need to be massively changed to work with CELL+ RSX as a cohesive unit

XB1 - would need tweaking to work with ESRAM but minimal other change
PS4 - Would work. that's how straightforward the architecture is, also the extra 500GFLOPS will just work, you don't need to mess around to get it to work, thats the power of the GPU.

I feel like this post shouldn't have to exist on NeoGAF as the posters here generally should be familiar enough with Console architecture to know these things, but here i am, posting it.

Let's stop the we won't see any differences at first, Graphically the 3D performance of both will be uneven and there isn't any amount of coding neccessary to do this. The difference we'll see in 2-3 years is mainly regarding fine grain GPGPU compute. Theres going to be differences day one and we'll see them in November and they'll be superior on the cheaper box.

I don't think "it just works" is how it works.

 

[omonimo]

“The people that are speculating on this are not our hardware engineers, and we’re not Sony’s hardware engineers,” Penello said when asked about the Xbox One’s power. “I don’t believe that the difference between these two platforms is significant as comparing individual components.”

ps4 better gpu
better bandwith


xb1 better cpu,audio and seem co processors that could offload things

IMO is another ps3 x360 gen ..all come to ur taste

what the.... wat?

 

[model13]

So your saying developers will purposely put less effort in the ps4 version? What you are saying makes little sense.

Although I dont agree with him entirely, it is possible. Im guessing youve never played a half-assed port, because those happen.

 

[sh4mike]

It would be nice to see the hardware maximized with better PS4 versions. In reality, I expect to see only minor differences (positive for PS4) throughout the generation.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

PS3 managed to whip the 360 when it came to 1st party titles because it was a more powerful machine overall, it was just far more complicated to develop for.

Only because they spent more money and time. No way was it more powerful overall. The proof is in the 99% of games that run and look better on the 360.

 

[Chobel]

The PS3 managed to match the 360 on some games and it was nowhere near as good.

Because Cell was complex and hard to code for and PS3 had a worse GPU.
PS4 have now the better GPU and is less complex than Xbox one.

 

[besada]

Four and a half frames per second. Exactly. That's the difference.

 

[TheKayle]

what the.... wat?

sorry i fix ..i should say faster

 

[Pain]

Obviously there is a difference or Microsoft wouldn't be upclocking CPU and GPU speeds.
The PS4 difference will be made more noticeable over time.

I don't even think having the Xbox One as the lead platform on a game would even make a difference this gen considering the similar architecture.

As for how noticeable it will be at launch....your guess is as good as mine. There should be a difference though(in PS4s favor). Does it really matter HOW BIG the difference is though? A $399 and $499 the go-to multiplat system is pretty easy to make.

 

[crozier]

Even if the difference is as tiny as 360 and PS3 is still justifies a PS4 purchase. I won't make that mistake again.

I also suspect the difference is going to be a bit larger than this.

 

[omonimo]

Only because they spent more money and time. No way was it more powerful overall. The proof is in the 99% of games that run and look better on the 360.

99% could even run better but look better like my balls.

 

[Future PhaZe]

With similar architecture you'll likely see slightly better AA in Ps4 multiplats and harder frame locks. With similar architecture we shouldn't see any Skyrims this gen. The two should be fairly comparable in third party games.

First party will be a different story of course.

 

[avaya]

bigger difference than 360 vs PS3 multiplats.

 

[Mandoric]

Yeah, but that's assuming you adjust the graphic settings, which, obviously, you do if you have a higher-end PC. There's no way they'll have options for that on multiplatform games on PS4.

That's not necessarily true. At the same settings it'll run noticeably smoother, unless the Xbone version is already locked to 1080p/60.

And just because the settings will be locked for any given console version doesn't mean that they'll be locked to the same thing. One of the regular differences in American 360/PS3 titles is the use of better AA for the 360.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

“The people that are speculating on this are not our hardware engineers, and we’re not Sony’s hardware engineers,” Penello said when asked about the Xbox One’s power. “I don’t believe that the difference between these two platforms is significant as comparing individual components.”

ps4 better gpu
better bandwith


xb1 better cpu,audio and seem co processors that could offload things

IMO is another ps3 x360 gen ..all come to ur taste

CPUs are the same, MS announcing a 150Mhz bump in speed doesn't mean the PS4's CPU is still running at stock 1.6GHz, it just means Sony hasn't talked about CPU speeds. The CPU is rated at 2Ghz in both machines, so assume that the PS4's CPU is running anywhere between 1.6GHz and 2GHz, and you have an equal chance of being correct given a lack of information.

Also, PS4 has an audio processor, per Cerny. How much or how little it does is still pretty vague, more assumptions given a lack of information.

Also DDR3 vs GDDR5 is a relevant piece of information in any conversation about the two systems.

 

[Curufinwe]

Multi-platform games will probably look slightly better on the Xbox One, especially from American devs. This may change if the PS4 greatly outsells the Xbox One in the US, but I highly doubt that will happen, so I expect the Xbox advantage to continue.

The PS2 greatly outsold the Xbox in the US, and American developers knew that most everyone would play their games on the PS2.

The PS2 versions of multiplatform titles did not look better on the PS2 because of those reasons. They looked worse because it was a less powerful system.

 

[see5harp]

Unless they spend the time to actually downgrade performance on the PS4, the differences could be there without any effort on the developer's part, like running a game on an i7 w/ a GTX780 vs running it on an i5 w/ a GTX660Ti.

Cannot wait for "lazy devs" in response to similar looking and performing multiplats.

 

[Chamber]

Like comparing PS3 to NES.

Seriously though, we won't know until November. I expect we will see differences at launch though.

 

[IN&OUT]

PS4 multiplat will look/run better 100% of the time.

PS4 first party will show us what 8th generation of gaming consoles are capable of.

 

[Skeff]

I don't think "it just works" is how it works.

No of course not, but the point clearly being made here is that there's no need to manage a small memory pool like ESRAM, theres no split between between RAM pools, there are no difficult architectural nuances to deal with.

 

[ypo]

Hahaha audio? Did anyone care 95% of PS3 games had better audio? Nope. Not to mention no one actually knows what the DSP in PS4 is capable of.

Audio will be a prominent feature in every DF next gen face-offs though.

PS4 GPU +40%
Xbone CPU +9%

I know, I know numbers.

 

[Pain]

“The people that are speculating on this are not our hardware engineers, and we’re not Sony’s hardware engineers,” Penello said when asked about the Xbox One’s power. “I don’t believe that the difference between these two platforms is significant as comparing individual components.”

ps4 better gpu
better bandwith


xb1 faster cpu,audio and seem co processors that could offload things

the system all together? i dont know we will see

IMO is another ps3 x360 gen ..all come to ur taste

We don't have the PS4s CPU speed. From what we know so far though, Xbox One does seem to have a clock speed advantage.

PS4 has an advantage over Xbox One that nullifies those "co-processors". If I remember correctly the PS4s GPU has dedicated CUs specifically for GPGPU.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

There's a natural bias toward the 360 in the US. If you're an American developer and everyone you know plays your games on the 360, you're going to make that the best version.

This will continue with the Xbox One which will likely outsell the PS4 in the United States.

Based on what, again? I mean, the ps2 outsold the xbox, but that didn't make the ps3 the lead console the next gen.

With ps4 preorders much higher then xbone ones, i'm not sure why you think the xbone will outsell it so far.

 

[TheKayle]

CPUs are the same, MS announcing a 150Mhz bump in speed doesn't mean the PS4's CPU is still running at stock 1.6GHz, it just means Sony hasn't talked about CPU speeds. The CPU is rated at 2Ghz in both machines, so assume that the PS4's CPU is running anywhere between 1.6GHz and 2GHz, and you have an equal chance of being correct given a lack of information.

Also, PS4 has an audio processor, per Cerny. How much or how little it does is still pretty vague, more assumptions given a lack of information.

the demo of kz was running on a 1.6ghz we already know this if they announce something we will see when they will do...but thepoint isnt this

cpu clock+move engine+shape

i dont think ps4 have a chance to have better specs of the xb1 under that aspect

yes ps4 have a dsp that compress and decompress audio files

 

[Shtof]

Well DigitalFoundry already did an article on this. Basically the conslusion was either more stable framerate on PS4 or reduced resolution of Xbone, but not much.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Because Cell was complex and hard to code for and PS3 had a worse GPU.
PS4 have now the better GPU and is less complex than Xbox one.

After 7 years we still get games like Saints Row 4, they had plenty of time to get used to it.

I don't believe this will happen on XB1, the differences won't be so big as to make a good game unappealing.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Cannot wait for "lazy devs" in response to similar looking and performing multiplats.

I expect similar statements if multiplats do perform better on PS4.

Devs can't really win.

 

[:Motorbass]

There should be a fairly noticeable difference in visuals from the start that will get more prononced as the generation goes on.

I don't know. The PS3 started more capable on paper, but recent multiplats like Splinter Cell are less spectacular than on X360

 

[TheKayle]

We don't have the PS4s CPU speed. From what we know so far though, Xbox One does seem to have a clock speed advantage.

PS4 has an advantage over Xbox One that nullifies those "co-processors". If I remember correctly the PS4s GPU has dedicated CUs specifically for GPGPU.

gpgpu...yes...as the cloud powa oh cmon

this take resource from that 40% advantage

 

[Pain]

Cannot wait for "lazy devs" in response to similar looking and performing multiplats.

How said the games won't be similar looking/performance? Because they will.

 

[pixlexic]

ps4 should have better iq and higher resolution textures unless xbone a set up produces some magic no one is considering.

 

[Chobel]

the demo of kz was running on a 1.6ghz we already know this if they announce something we will see when they will do...but thepoint isnt this

cpu clock+move engine+shape

i dont think ps4 have a chance to have better specs of the xb1 under that aspect

PS4 better graphics, Xbox one better sound.

 

[MaximusPayne]

It will be like night and ... a couple minutes later that night.

THIS MADE ME LMAO

 

[Pain]

gpgpu...yes...as the cloud powa oh cmon

GPGPU is much more useful and actually viable than Cloud Computing.
There's already a PS4 game taking advantage of it....Resogun.

 

[Wonko_C]

They're not going to "tone down" the PS4 version. Considering how many people are going to buy a PS4, why would they actively hinder their game to make it look worse than competing titles? They're not competing against themselves, they're competing against other games.



Threaten them with what?

"Lol your game can't be on our system if the PS4 version looks better"

In what fantasy world that be a good business decision by Microsoft? That's basically saying "well if the PS4 version is a bit nicer looking then fine! Just let Sony have it as an exclusive!"

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=80161733

See? They have a similar policy. I don't know the details but I guess they could implement a graphics/framerate policy too. It does sound silly, though.