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[UnravelKatharsis]

You mean the entire studio right? It's not one boss deciding to keep her as the lead. It came naturally for them and you'd know that if you watched the BTS documentary. Don't know what to say, I'd say you're just stupid af if you aren't excited for the graphics in 2 after playing the first game.

Hang on let me go and watch behind the scenes documentaries for every game I'm remotely interested in.

 

[The Tourmaline Gorilla]

Helblade was average. And if you can’t understand why people would be concerned with gameplay that consisted of holding forward for 2 seconds and then having to watch a monologue with obnoxious camera work, I don’t know what to tell you.

The cinematography/performances in these games are bargain bin. It’s only when you add in mild exploration, combat and puzzles that the games are elevated to something worth someone’s time. We haven’t seen any of these things. Just a handful of out-of-context cutscenes.

Hellblade was average in your opinion.

Who cares what ratings a game gets. Do gamers have to conform to MC % ratings? GTA games always get in the 90s. I dont like those games. So I'm wrong and have to like them?

I thought HB was shit myself. It wasnt even the combat or the voice acting quality. It was the fact I had to sit through unskippable cut scenes all the time of some bi-polar weirdo talking to herself. And that was already a nauseating point in the first hour of the game.

Do you know what context is? He said the game was average.

I said, it was average, in his opinion. He can't speak for everyone. And if he were to speak for everyone who played and rated the game, it's evident that they think it's much higher than average. Learn to read and not ignore context, before replying to someone.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Hellblade was average in your opinion.

Do you know what context is? He said the game was average.

I said, it was average, in his opinion. He can't speak for everyone. And if he were to speak for everyone who played and rated the game, it's evident that they think it's much higher than average. Learn to read and not ignore context, before replying to someone.

Fallingdove thinks HB 1 is average. I think it's shit. Who cares.

 

[Gambit2483]

You want a shit game in development for one year? Stick to your shite "masterpiece" Assassins creed games then.

Litterally EVERYONE is complaining about this portion of the showcase...the hell are you on about?

 

[Negotiator101]

The fact that this is coming next year and has already been shown like 4 times and they're still just showing in game cinematics is a fail.
No real gameplay. No combat. No puzzles. Haven't even seen her swing a sword yet.

The last showing was gameplay with the Troll.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The last showing was "gameplay" with the Troll.

Looked like one massive on rails QTE. Thought we didn't like those?

Was pretty, however.

 

[Wesleyalucard]

So this is not going to be the God Of War killer that some were expecting lol

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

The last showing was gameplay with the Troll.

No it wasn't. The camera moves all over, switching to other characters, etc. That was an in game cinematic too.

 

[mckmas8808]

This was a bad showing....really bad imo.

It should have been real combat, with her sword. Atleast, end the demo with some action.

This was a real let down for me. I will play it and I loved the first. The tone and vibe is awesome when you're in it but this kind of cutscene should have been left for your playthrough not a show imo.

I agree. The trailer was good if it was shown in 2022.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

My interpretation is that it was for people who loved the first one. I haven't played the first one so it did absolutely nothing for me.

It's definitely not the type of trailer to show if you want to bring in new players, but they probably have a more inviting trailer planned for the release date.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This was a bad showing....really bad imo.

It should have been real combat, with her sword. Atleast, end the demo with some action.

This was a real let down for me. I will play it and I loved the first. The tone and vibe is awesome when you're in it but this kind of cutscene should have been left for your playthrough not a show imo.

Agreed.

That video and the South of Midnight snippet were the worst of the show. A gamer has to be really big into cut scenes to like them. That Capcom slashing game looked way more interesting. And I dont even play though those kinds of games. But when you show a nice looking game with some gameplay instead of a FOUR MINUTE video of a schizo talking to herself, thats why just about every gamer hated he HB2 segment.

 

[Clear]

The last showing was gameplay with the Troll.

That wasn't "gameplay". It might have used in-game assets or be based on an interactive sequence (think Asura's Wrath) in the final game, but what was shown was way too tightly choreographed and on-rails to be anything other than a cinematic. The giveaway was the animation transitions on the pc, which were simply too seamless not to be entirely mo-capped.

it also displayed a level of fidelity and visual polish above what was shown in the latest trailer.

 

[Negotiator101]

No it wasn't. The camera moves all over, switching to other characters, etc. That was an in game cinematic too.

No, some of it was cinematics but most was gameplay.

 

[Negotiator101]

That wasn't "gameplay". It might have used in-game assets or be based on an interactive sequence (think Asura's Wrath) in the final game, but what was shown was way too tightly choreographed and on-rails to be anything other than a cinematic. The giveaway was the animation transitions on the pc, which were simply too seamless not to be entirely mo-capped.

it also displayed a level of fidelity and visual polish above what was shown in the latest trailer.

No, it was gameplay its well documented by the developers and it wasn't a higher fidelity than what was shown yesterday, go watch both again.

 

[Clear]

No, it was gameplay its well documented by the developers and it wasn't a higher fidelity than what was shown yesterday, go watch both again.

Gameplay that involved walking down a corridor, then running back up the same corridor only interrupted by some suspiciously smooth sequences where Senua receives a spear from a conveniently placed NPC.

No. Just stop and think how much agency the player has in such a sequence and how even with really advanced animation blending techniques like ND pioneered in TLOU2 there was absolutely zero snapping between transitions despite a truly dynamic version of the sequence needing to handle scenarios where the pc and the npc spear vendors are imperfectly positioned.

Like I said, I can well imagine a version of that sequence making its way into the final build, but if you think that the actual experience is going to be that smooth I think you'll end up sorely disappointed. Its basically the same deal as that early TLOU2 combat sequence demonstration; representative but not 1:1 with the final because it requires precise choreography to look that cinematic.

 

[Negotiator101]

Gameplay that involved walking down a corridor, then running back up the same corridor only interrupted by some suspiciously smooth sequences where Senua receives a spear from a conveniently placed NPC.

No. Just stop and think how much agency the player has in such a sequence and how even with really advanced animation blending techniques like ND pioneered in TLOU2 there was absolutely zero snapping between transitions despite a truly dynamic version of the sequence needing to handle scenarios where the pc and the npc spear vendors are imperfectly positioned.

Like I said, I can well imagine a version of that sequence making its way into the final build, but if you think that the actual experience is going to be that smooth I think you'll end up sorely disappointed. Its basically the same deal as that early TLOU2 combat sequence demonstration; representative but not 1:1 with the final because it requires precise choreography to look that cinematic.

They are showing more of Hellblade 2 tomorrow so hopefully we see something more to your liking.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

The sooner people start seeing this game as more of a Detroit become-human type game and less of a God of War... the better for everyone and the game.

 

[Clear]

They are showing more of Hellblade 2 tomorrow so hopefully we see something more to your liking.

Its all real high quality work, I'm not dissing or dismissing Ninja Theory's efforts. Just that if you know the techniques behind the trickery the artfulness of putting on a good show is where the "magic" really is. The key thing though is if you know that, then you're also aware of the costs and limitations involved.

Look at it this way. The sequence in that "gameplay" trailer is wonderfully done. BUT, if you consider how much work is involved in creating a sequence like that, and then factor in the amount of on-screen time it represents compared to the duration of a game, how much sense does it make to engineer it dynamically when there's no real need to do more than what we see in the trailer?

There's no benefit in creating dynamic versions of fixed-event sequences. It's just creating a rock for your back.

Thus the logical read I made when watching that was that its either composed almost entirely of pre-animated, choreographed sequences, linked and timed for optimum effect. OR in the final game its a much more dynamic boss battle, where the player needs to throw more spears in order to take the giant down, can miss their shots, need to actively find NPC's to arm them, etc, etc. This makes sense because you can afford to budget extra time for a major set-piece like a boss fight.

Either way, any sequence like that, is not gameplay. Because even if it uses the exact same assets, animations and shaders that the final does, its running without all the game logic in place (relieving stress on the hardware that can require trims and cut-backs) and has been directed such that it gives the most impactful visual impression. A game version will not have those luxuries.

Seriously, it drives me crazy because in the end what it results in is disappointment and anger that the gameplay version is less than what was originally promised. This is to noone's benefit, least of all the dev's.

The simple rule of thumb to use when judging gameplay trailers is to observe whether the balance of actions in there favours bespoke/one-off events or repeatable actions that can be applied across an entire game.

If its the former, its almost certainly an in-engine cinematic. If its the latter, its likely reflective of the experience you will have on the sticks.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

No, some of it was cinematics but most was gameplay.

It was some walking at best. I’d hardly call that gameplay.

 

[Noxxera]

Litterally EVERYONE is complaining about this portion of the showcase...the hell are you on about?

Was it lackluster? Definitely but I see it as some sort of tease for next year, im sure they'll release more actual gameplay when its nearing launch, so yeah I wouldnt blame that tease on the games deveopment haha

 

[Sintoid]

You basically described the first Hellblade.

I had more fun with the firs Hellblade than with The Order

 

[Gorgon]

Looked like one massive on rails QTE. Thought we didn't like those?

Was pretty, however.

Hellblade doesn't have any QTEs. But if someone hasn't played it or seen any gameplay footage it certainly can give that impression.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Why do they keep hiding the gameplay?

 

[Gorgon]

So this is not going to be the God Of War killer that some were expecting lol

I've heard this before but I'm not sure where that idea is coming from. Did anyone ever expected that?

No it wasn't. The camera moves all over, switching to other characters, etc. That was an in game cinematic too.

See below.

Its all real high quality work, I'm not dissing or dismissing Ninja Theory's efforts. Just that if you know the techniques behind the trickery the artfulness of putting on a good show is where the "magic" really is. The key thing though is if you know that, then you're also aware of the costs and limitations involved.

Look at it this way. The sequence in that "gameplay" trailer is wonderfully done. BUT, if you consider how much work is involved in creating a sequence like that, and then factor in the amount of on-screen time it represents compared to the duration of a game, how much sense does it make to engineer it dynamically when there's no real need to do more than what we see in the trailer?

There's no benefit in creating dynamic versions of fixed-event sequences. It's just creating a rock for your back.

Thus the logical read I made when watching that was that its either composed almost entirely of pre-animated, choreographed sequences, linked and timed for optimum effect. OR in the final game its a much more dynamic boss battle, where the player needs to throw more spears in order to take the giant down, can miss their shots, need to actively find NPC's to arm them, etc, etc. This makes sense because you can afford to budget extra time for a major set-piece like a boss fight.

Either way, any sequence like that, is not gameplay. Because even if it uses the exact same assets, animations and shaders that the final does, its running without all the game logic in place (relieving stress on the hardware that can require trims and cut-backs) and has been directed such that it gives the most impactful visual impression. A game version will not have those luxuries.

Seriously, it drives me crazy because in the end what it results in is disappointment and anger that the gameplay version is less than what was originally promised. This is to noone's benefit, least of all the dev's.

The simple rule of thumb to use when judging gameplay trailers is to observe whether the balance of actions in there favours bespoke/one-off events or repeatable actions that can be applied across an entire game.

If its the former, its almost certainly an in-engine cinematic. If its the latter, its likely reflective of the experience you will have on the sticks.

Great analysis. But the devs did provide more info on that trailer, and what they said iirc is that the sequence is during gameplay but they used camera angles etc that will not be in the final game just for the purpose of trailer presentation. With that said, it's clear that some aspects of the trailer will not change much and the gameplay will be interspersed with seamless cutscene takeover, like the previous game. Also, if you miss a spear throw it won't really change anything. The whole thing will be mostly on rails with very little impact coming from what you do. It will most probably allways play out the same, no matter if you run more to the left or to the right, miss a spear throw or two, or whatever. A big set-scene like that simply can't give you much beyond that. Which is fine, since most of the game will be most probably like the first one, meaning you have full control of the character most of the time.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I've heard this before but I'm not sure where that idea is coming from. Did anyone ever expected that?



See below.



Great analysis. But the devs did provide more info on that trailer, and what they said iirc is that the sequence is during gameplay but they used camera angles etc that will not be in the final game just for the purpose of trailer presentation. With that said, it's clear that some aspects of the trailer will not change much and the gameplay will be interspersed with seamless cutscene takeover, like the previous game. Also, if you miss a spear throw it won't really change anything. The whole thing will be mostly on rails with very little impact coming from what you do. It will most probably allways play out the same, no matter if you run more to the left or to the right, miss a spear throw or two, or whatever. A big set-scene like that simply can't give you much beyond that. Which is fine, since most of the game will be most probably like the first one, meaning you have full control of the character most of the time.

It still wasn't meaningful gameplay even if it is gameplay with camera tricks. Thats like responding to someone that says "xbox has no games" by saying something like "i'm playing CoD right now on xbox" . . . it's clearly not what anyone meant. People are waiting to see if the combat and puzzles improved. That hasn't been shown. Set piece stuff might look good for a show, but it's not what you're doing most of the time in the game. It's like showing that epic start to Ghost of Tsushima where you're on a horse and press a button to slash a few people. That's hardly the main combat of the game.

 

[Gorgon]

It still wasn't meaningful gameplay even if it is gameplay with camera tricks. Thats like responding to someone that says "xbox has no games" by saying something like "i'm playing CoD right now on xbox" . . . it's clearly not what anyone meant. People are waiting to see if the combat and puzzles improved. That hasn't been shown. Set piece stuff might look good for a show, but it's not what you're doing most of the time in the game. It's like showing that epic start to Ghost of Tsushima where you're on a horse and press a button to slash a few people. That's hardly the main combat of the game.

Fair enough on that front.

 

[Clear]

Great analysis. But the devs did provide more info on that trailer, and what they said iirc is that the sequence is during gameplay but they used camera angles etc that will not be in the final game just for the purpose of trailer presentation. With that said, it's clear that some aspects of the trailer will not change much and the gameplay will be interspersed with seamless cutscene takeover, like the previous game. Also, if you miss a spear throw it won't really change anything. The whole thing will be mostly on rails with very little impact coming from what you do. It will most probably allways play out the same, no matter if you run more to the left or to the right, miss a spear throw or two, or whatever. A big set-scene like that simply can't give you much beyond that. Which is fine, since most of the game will be most probably like the first one, meaning you have full control of the character most of the time.

Here's the thing though; when its stated that they changed the camera position/angle for a given sequence, if you read between the lines that's basically them telling you that what you were watching was a canned animation! You can't just move the camera around in a real-time context! Character motion/locomotion tends to be camera relative because you need to have a visual cue to respond to onscreen, and unless -again- you want to do more work than is strictly necessary, building everything out such that it looks good from all angles isn't standard practice!

 

[Gorgon]

Here's the thing though; when its stated that they changed the camera position/angle for a given sequence, if you read between the lines that's basically them telling you that what you were watching was a canned animation! You can't just move the camera around in a real-time context! Character motion/locomotion tends to be camera relative because you need to have a visual cue to respond to onscreen, and unless -again- you want to do more work than is strictly necessary, building everything out such that it looks good from all angles isn't standard practice!

I get that, but that wasn't my point. I was stating what I said specifically in the sense that several of those moments in that trailer actually had human controlled gameplay and wasn't a full cutscene. This is obvious for those that know the previous game but not for people who didn't play it or who never bothered to check gameplay online and came here to the thread to just shit on it. Otherwise, we're totally in agreement. Plus, my "problem" isn't with the previous trailers, which were perfectly great on all levels. My issue is with the new one, which did absolutely nothing for anyone and just left you scratching your head.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Will it actually have any gameplay or what? They seem afraid to show it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Hellblade doesn't have any QTEs. But if someone hasn't played it or seen any gameplay footage it certainly can give that impression.

I played the first one. Nobody played the second one, nor did the first one have a cinematic cut every two seconds in a massive troll fight.

 

[Gorgon]

I played the first one. Nobody played the second one, nor did the first one have a cinematic cut every two seconds in a massive troll fight.

Then I misinterpreted your post, because that's the impression I got. Sorry.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Then I misinterpreted your post, because that's the impression I got. Sorry.

You do make a good point. Without them showing the meat and potatoes of the gameplay, this would give the impression of an on rails or QTE style sequence. Which is why they need to show the actual gameplay, already.

But then again, they now have a 2024 date, so that affords them lots of no show time. Something that the whole industry seems to suffer from marketing wise.

 

[ResilientBanana]

That showed no gameplay told you to not believe Greenberg

Have you played the original Hellblade. There were many in-game moments that were fairly trippy. One could only imagine the trailer we just saw was gameplay.

 

[SF Kosmo]

I don't think this game is going to be a walking sim, but they are definitely misreading the room by showing a trailer with no gameplay this late. It's time for us to see the combat and puzzles and systems.

 

[DeNoro]

Very week showing, in my opnion. Don't get me wrong, the graphics looks fine even with the heavy post processing, but i really wanted to see the gameplay. So far, it seems that all that they've presented explained nothing of how the game will work. I enjoyed the first game and the way they marketed it with the vlogs. I feel that they went the opposite direction with Hellblade 2, for they seem to be holding everything too close to their chest.

 

[Sorcerer]

I don't think this game is going to be a walking sim, but they are definitely misreading the room by showing a trailer with no gameplay this late. It's time for us to see the combat and puzzles and systems.

The first game was basically a walking sim, a very well done one. I enjoyed it very much. Combat wasn't very deep, your first fight feels like your last fight in the game. I'm guess Ninja Theory is more about story above all else these days, strange considering DMC ,and going all the way back to Heavenly Sword, and now they are very concerned with portraying mental illness. If I understand correctly, they are developing a separate ip that also deals with mental illness.

I was watching some vid's on YouTube and they did a good job in pointing out that Senua is basically Kai from Heavenly Sword. I wonder if they would have straight up used Kai had not Sony not owned the Heavenly Sword ip?

 

[Riky]

We're nearly there.

 

[Fart Knight]

Cant believe were getting Alan Wake 2 before this pretentious crap.

 

[Zuzu]

We're nearly there.

I hope we see some hands on gameplay soon

 

[Riky]

I hope we see some hands on gameplay soon

Hopefully, if they can play through the game it can't be far away. Maybe spring 2024?

 

[Bojji]

We're nearly there.

It looks like they are watching porn.

 

[Varteras]

It looks like they are watching porn.

Looks like they're about to sex rave to some weird shit (aka my kinda party)

Spoiler: TOO SEXY

 

[Stafford]

I hope we see some hands on gameplay soon

You'd think we will, it's about time. Hell, E3 should have been a proper gameplay demo. I honestly don't want to see it anymore until they can properly show it off. All this behind the scenes stuff was cool at first, but we need something tangible now.

If this is really hitting next year, it shouldn't be too long. Unless it's a holiday 2024 title, then it could easily take until June.

 

[Robb]

We're nearly there.

Nice, can’t wait to see more. Very curious about whether they’ve actually improved the combat and puzzles. Fingers crossed.

 

[NeonGhost]

They shouldn’t have announced it so early

 

[Punished Miku]

VGA trailer is my guess. Its Xbox's only cinematic game and will fit in there.

 

[MadPanda]

VGA trailer is my guess. Its Xbox's only cinematic game and will fit in there.

I so t think so. I think they will do a similar show like early this year there they showcase hellbalde 2, awoved, maybe hollow knight or stalker and wherever else is coming before E3 2024. They said they liked the format a lot, fan's liked it too so I expect that, not VGA.

 

[TheRedRiders]

I hope this comes out next year, the same with Death Stranding 2. It’ll be cool to see how they compare visually.

 

[nemiroff]

I hope this comes out next year, the same with Death Stranding 2. It’ll be cool to see how they compare visually.

I wouldn't even mind 2025 if it would mean they would be able to integrate UE5 all the way up to 5.3.

 

[SHA]

Man this looks like a crazy psychological experience, but when the fuck are they gonna show us some raw gameplay

That's actually part of gameplay, characters don't have to feel like tanks to start playing.