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Social Godfall Dev Expects PS5 SSD To Be ‘Biggest Overall Game-Changer’ In Next Few Years

MonarchJT

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That is core of architecture design. To me PS5 made clear deliberate bets on SoC size (for cost), portion of the die to dedicate to the custom SSD I/O (and minimise latency and remove memory bandwidth waste, see cache scrubbers), and GPU design to hit the high frequency needed to hit their performance targets (then they figured out how to cool it and how to keep frequency high on CPU and GPU). The advantage of this approach was that a lot of the GPU core shared by the CU arrays is now running a lot faster and the CU’s themselves can handle branchy code (dynamic if statements).

If anything, including the Zen FPU customisations as well as other customisations inside the GPU too (geometry engine customisations, smartshift, and Coherency Engines + cache scrubbers) speak of a very coherent architecture approach not a series of jumps reacting to “the enemy’s plans”.
remember that some changes are possible let's say up to 24 / 18 months from launch other are not, at least if you don't want to trash millions of dollars invested in in r&d and start over pushing away the launch. From the size of the console and the problems they are having to cool the removable SSD it does not seem that the cooling was all so calculated. The fact that the console performs well (or that the Xbox still underperforms hahaha) doesn't make me change my mind about how it is gone the design of the ps5 and you know how I think.
 
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Panajev2001a

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remember that some changes are possible let's say up to 24 / 18 months from launch other are not, at least if you don't want to trash millions of dollars invested in in r&d and start over pushing away the launch.

You are over estimating the changes that can be done 18 months in… especially when you plan a big worldwide launch and even before COVID broke there was already trouble getting plenty of 7nm access at TSMC if you were not called Apple.

From the size of the console
Console size speaks of reducing cost by investing in a bigger but not as complex heat sink (more effective thanks to liquid metal invested in the SoC cooling itself) and still allowing a very quiet design for the vast majority of users (considering the high frequency complex console design this is a very quiet console). I remember when XSX was announced and it was bigger than everything else it’s size was a plus, but somehow now size is a problem haha 😛
and the problems they are having to cool the removable SSD
[Citation Needed]

it does not seem that the cooling was all so calculated. The fact that the console performs well (or that the Xbox still underperforms hahaha) doesn't make me change my mind about how it is gone the design of the ps5 and you know how I think.
Glad you are still staying open minded ;).
 
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Guilty_AI

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You must have a bad day - that is not what I wrote and you know it.

The real TLDR is that consoles are superior to the PC platform in this regard due to the PCIe bus and even though MS tries to create faster software based solutions the VRAM amplification difference between the PS5 and the XSX is probably the biggest difference between the two consoles given the increased latency with the MS solution.
It might not have been what you meant, but its what you wrote. All you said is that the nvidia's and MS's solution that do pretty much the same thing of putting SSD data directly onto video memory is "not good enough", without really giving conclusive reasons as to why.
And no, saying windows is inneficient or that pure hardware solutions are better don't justify saying its "vastly superior", more efficient maybe but nothing that implies it can do things the other couldn't even with slightly better hardware.
 
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Heisenberg007

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Sony better hope this is true, I think by the end of the gen PS5 will be viewed as a failure unless Cerny really did have an ace up his sleeve with this thing, that really will set PS5 exclusives apart.

As a PS5 owner, there are some benefits but Gamepass really is starting to bring in buyer's remorse, considering the main argument against choosing XSX is the PS5 exclusives, of which there currently is...one.
There are already three (excluding Godfall):
  • Astro's Playroom
  • Demon's Souls
  • Destruction All Stars
And the 4th one is releasing this month. The 5th PS5 exclusive will be released in 2 months.
 

jroc74

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That is core of architecture design. To me PS5 made clear deliberate bets on SoC size (for cost), portion of the die to dedicate to the custom SSD I/O (and minimise latency and remove memory bandwidth waste, see cache scrubbers), and GPU design to hit the high frequency needed to hit their performance targets (then they figured out how to cool it and how to keep frequency high on CPU and GPU). The advantage of this approach was that a lot of the GPU core shared by the CU arrays is now running a lot faster and the CU’s themselves can handle branchy code (dynamic if statements).

If anything, including the Zen FPU customisations as well as other customisations inside the GPU too (geometry engine customisations, smartshift, and Coherency Engines + cache scrubbers) speak of a very coherent architecture approach not a series of jumps reacting to “the enemy’s plans”.

Exactly.

There is enough proof out there that Sony had smaller number of cu's, higher clocks, and more of an investment into the SSD, I/O very early in the design process.

So early....they were testing RDNA 2 clock speeds before RDNA 2 was even revealed.

The only thing that might have dictated the design more than anything is having hardware BC for PS4.
 
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Warablo

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I mean, maybe for Sony exclusives. Don't think third party devs gonna use it when standard HDD/SSD PC's exist.
 

FrankWza

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Your the fanboy here criticising the ps5s io advantage because its on a console and not your beloved pc, the ps5s io importance has already been shown by unreal 5 and demon souls, your ignorance and denial of facts from developers the actual people who engineered the games is astonishing you seem to believe whatever lies u create in ur own little box. I remember you even claimed that demon souls is using parralax occlusion mapping and it wasnt it was using tessellation and anybody who has the slightest understanding of computer graphics could see it. So keep your fake denial it seems to be some religion to you and im not surprised your notoriously known as a pc masterace fanatic and every fact goes out the window whenever consoles have cutting edge technology. So keep denying and have a good day you know more about graphics than game devs and people who engineered the ps5.🤣
He’s been vetted....:)
There are already three (excluding Godfall):
  • Astro's Playroom
  • Demon's Souls
  • Destruction All Stars
And the 4th one is releasing this month. The 5th PS5 exclusive will be released in 2 months.
also, Deathloop is releasing exclusively on PS5 for some time
 
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abel empire

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He’s been vetted....:)

also, Deathloop is releasing exclusively on PS5 for some time
Being vetted doesnt mean hes a game dev. Are u saying he knows more than the developers who make the games hes arguing against? Or playstation engineers. Does being vetted in neogaf mean your a graphics rendering professor or sometging?
 
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FrankWza

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Being vetted doesnt mean hes a game dev. Are u saying he knows more than the developers who make the games hes arguing against? Or playstation engineers. Does being vetted in neogaf mean your a graphics rendering professor or sometging?
No not at all. It was a joke. I don’t believe anyone who contradicts what Cerny said in the road to PS5.
 
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abel empire

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No not at all. It was a joke. I don’t believe anyone who contradicts what Cerny said in the road to PS5.
The guy was arguing nonesense he spreads fud on everything about graphics on consoles, everybody knows him. Its his bread and butter. Arguing with him is pointless there isnt any rationality with him, hes literally arguing with developers and people who engineered the ps5.
 

abel empire

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It might not have been what you meant, but its what you wrote. All you said is that the nvidia's and MS's solution that do pretty much the same thing of putting SSD data directly onto video memory is "not good enough", without really giving conclusive reasons as to why.
And no, saying windows is inneficient or that pure hardware solutions are better don't justify saying its "vastly superior", more efficient maybe but nothing that implies it can do things the other couldn't even with slightly better hardware.
Microsoft and nvidia have hardware decompressors only the ps5 has more hardware than just the decompressor

You need all those chips to remove this latencies

Its not just having a decompressor and high bandwidths the latencies have to be removed its only the ps5 ssd that can be used as ram. And heres one reason why series x games already have trouble with popin this shows that ssd still has bottlenecks..
Series x:

Ps5:

Mind you we havent even seen games using unreal 5 and such engines centered at realtime data streaming this could be a real problem for series x.
 

Guilty_AI

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Microsoft and nvidia have hardware decompressors only the ps5 has more hardware than just the decompressor

You need all those chips to remove this latencies

Its not just having a decompressor and high bandwidths the latencies have to be removed its only the ps5 ssd that can be used as ram. And heres one reason why series x games already have trouble with popin this shows that ssd still has bottlenecks..
Series x:

Ps5:

Mind you we havent even seen games using unreal 5 and such engines centered at realtime data streaming this could be a real problem for series x.
If we're gonna use their PR talks as reference, Nvidia also claimed to be able to do similar numbers to the PS5 regardless of the specifics and differences in the structure of their software/hardware solution for direct SSD -> GPU data transfers.

Also, weird to use this specific cross-gen game to make your point
 
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3liteDragon

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26:06 👀 👀 👀

Q: "What tech are you most exited about for the future of game making?"

A: "The new PS5 storage system. The loading systems there will change the way we think about how we make games. its so fast that, even the idea of unloading the things that are just off screen on the camera, and as the player turns bring them in just in time is possible and that really fundamentally could change how we think about making games."
 

Yselacrey00

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Funny how it was "goodbye to loading screens" day one. Then to "almost no loading", to "Ps5 will load in 2 seconds and Xbox in 13 seconds". And now we won't see the ssd benefits till another few years lol.

Star Trek Applause GIF
Dude, this is not about the ssd working or not, is about there are no fucking games to show it's capabilities. When's the big next gen game coming out? It was supposed to come out last year, it didn't, this year won't either, so next year then.

That's what's being delayed, not the SSD lmao.

But if you wanna check SSD benefits just play FFVIII Remake for PS5. There's not a single second of loading screens vs the 50 seconds on PS4.
 

MonarchJT

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Microsoft and nvidia have hardware decompressors only the ps5 has more hardware than just the decompressor

You need all those chips to remove this latencies

Its not just having a decompressor and high bandwidths the latencies have to be removed its only the ps5 ssd that can be used as ram. And heres one reason why series x games already have trouble with popin this shows that ssd still has bottlenecks..
Series x:

Ps5:

Mind you we havent even seen games using unreal 5 and such engines centered at realtime data streaming this could be a real problem for series x.
no, basically to all of what you said
- xbox doesnt have just decompress
- the popin are there mostly because software bugs
- xbox is very very very optimized and it was designed with the idea of streaming in mind. if you don't know what you're talking about, don't.
 

martino

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it's not, but i bet it's on its limits

it also has a whopping 760 gb/s of bandwidth and that probably helps

game actually runs fine on actual gameplay, but after 10-15 mins, it starts to drop frames. sometimes it happens quicker, sometimes slower. i provided two video proofs. my video proves that it can happen in quick fashion, other video shows that it can happen after 10 mins of gameplay

in this video it can be observed that 3080 gets very weird frame drops

Are you aware the part you timed is benching 6900xt
3080 begin here
.

it seems the game only allocate 12gb of ram during cinematics

and it's why you got tricked doing your lazy cherry picking/confirmation bias work.
your gameplay here show the game don't even use more than 10gb on the 6900xt during gameplay


but yes this game has good frame drop like

(you can look at 0.1% and 1% framerate at all resolution)
they are not ram related (or will now say to me the game need more than 16gb+ at 1440+rt ?)
 
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Are you aware the part you timed is benching 6900xt
3080 begin here
.

it seems the game only allocate 12gb of ram during cinematics

and it's why you got tricked doing your lazy cherry picking/confirmation bias work.
your gameplay here show the game don't even use more than 10gb on the 6900xt during gameplay


but yes this game has not good frame drop like

(you can look at 0.1% and 1% framerate at all resolution)
they are not ram related (or will now say to me the game need more than 16gb+ at 1440+rt ?)
hmm sorry for the wrong info then, i stand corrected
 

abel empire

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no, basically to all of what you said
- xbox doesnt have just decompress
- the popin are there mostly because software bugs
- xbox is very very very optimized and it was designed with the idea of streaming in mind. if you don't know what you're talking about, don't.
You just replied gibberish., xbox wasnt engineered for streaming as ps5 because its ssd isnt as proprietary as tge ps5s its just an offshelf ssd with hardware decompression plus api's that make some efficiencies you cant use it as the ps5's. Popin isnt a bug popin is a storage to ram bottleneck it means textures didnt arrive in time in ram and it happens in alot of games on series x even the medium a series x exclusive that uses velocity architecture has popin. So try not to be salty and try understanding. Your denial wont fix series x bottlenecks.
 

abel empire

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If we're gonna use their PR talks as reference, Nvidia also claimed to be able to do similar numbers to the PS5 regardless of the specifics and differences in the structure of their software/hardware solution for direct SSD -> GPU data transfers.

Also, weird to use this specific cross-gen game to make your point
Difference is weve seen unreal 5 on ps5 ratchet and clank switch worlds in a second, spiderman, godfall, demons souls, all load in a flash the only pr and marketing weve seen is nvidia and microsofts... so just because ur used to pr from nvidia and microsoft doesnt mean its the same on sony because theyve backed it up.. infact the medium uses velocity architecture and it still has popin. So thats proof enough of series x ssd bottlenecks. So try harder next time.
 

Heisenberg007

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no, basically to all of what you said
- xbox doesnt have just decompress
- the popin are there mostly because software bugs
- xbox is very very very optimized and it was designed with the idea of streaming in mind. if you don't know what you're talking about, don't.
I don't think anybody denies that Xbox does not have decompressor units (it clearly has them), but it's also a fact that those aren't as powerful as PS5's decompressor units.

According to spec sheets, Xbox has a decompressor unit that is the equivalent of 3 Zen 2 CPU Cores. PS5 has a decompressor unit that is the equivalent of 9 Zen 2 CPU cores (btw, this is also the reason why PS5's CPU performance will likely be ahead of XSX's). In addition, PS5 also has a dedicated DMA controller that is the equivalent of up to 2 Zen 2 CPU cores.

So that's 3 zen 2 CPU cores vs. up to 12 Zen 2 CPU cores (nearly a 400% difference in favor of PS5). And that's just the decompressor units. We haven't yet talked about the 2x faster SSD, Coherency unit, 12-channel SSD interface, two dedicated custom processors that handle I/O and memory mapping, etc.

Out of the two consoles, it wouldn't be wrong to say that PS5 prioritized data streaming, and XSX prioritized computing and rendering.
 
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Elog

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If we're gonna use their PR talks as reference, Nvidia also claimed to be able to do similar numbers to the PS5 regardless of the specifics and differences in the structure of their software/hardware solution for direct SSD -> GPU data transfers.

Also, weird to use this specific cross-gen game to make your point
Nvidia did not make that claim with regard to latency that is the key driver and where the PC platform hits the rocks.

Please separate peak theoretical bandwidth where basically any platform with an SSD is ok, and...

...systen latency in getting multiple texture files per time unit (i.e. the difference in time between T0 when the executable wants texture A, B and C and the timepoint T1 when the textures A, B and C are readable by the GPU in VRAM.

It is the second point where there is a huge difference between PC and the new consoles and where the PS5 shines compared to the XSX. It is also the point that is the key driver for how many high-resolution textures you can use in an environment.
 
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cormack12

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I feel all the conversations focus on what the tech can do rather that how it can be implemented/leveraged. And there's very little talk of the constraints outside the hardware like file sizes etc. You can have 8K assets for everything but how big are they going to be? I think the premise is wrong anyway though. Given the UE5 demo, the biggest leap/benefit - for me - is clearly going to be Nanite and Lumens (and whatever proprietary engines choose to call this when implemented).

Basically it boils down to JiT on assets being loaded. It doesn't really matter that it can load what's to the right of your character in 2/3 seconds because it's a known quantity. It can just be brute forced by having more memory. The only reason to not do so would be if your assets are absolutely massive in each camera view, which is plausible if you wanted to do that - but again, this will be managed by Nanite (or equivalent) and vessel size rather than the tech. Games are already using some Quixel megascans now in certain areas - you have simple decals that can be rendered in 8k but no one is going to do that. It was actually touched on by the UE guys as well referencing the static demo (UE5 demo) against real world game sizes - they're not expecting everyone to be shipping 8k Megascans for all assets.



In terms of where this would actually be useful/most beneficial would be procedurally generated games (which may become more commonplace), or those generated with ML. Basically in scenario's where you don't know what is round a corner because it is random/generated JiT as well. I'm not sure if the portals are random in Ratchet but that would be a good use case for example. If you can glance a placeholder image of 4/5 different large area's but it doesn't know which one to commit to until you activate it. The caveat being that this is useful when your memory pool can't cache 2/3 divergent paths based on player choice.

infact the medium uses velocity architecture and it still has popin. So thats proof enough of series x ssd bottlenecks. So try harder next time.

That's a developer implementation issue with Unreal and how they load/unload collectible assets only, the game itself is solid while playing (and one cutscene iirc). It's just as much of a non issue as popin on Dirt 5 and Valhalla having pop in on their next gen versions at various junctures.
 
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phil_t98

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He is talking about data streaming and higher fidelity details in games, not loading screens.

Yeah i know and the data wont be streamed art 6 gb chunks, if so then expect huge installs going forward, that External add on SSD better come soon then. Look forward to seeing what they do though
 

Heisenberg007

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Yeah i know and the data wont be streamed art 6 gb chunks, if so then expect huge installs going forward, that External add on SSD better come soon then. Look forward to seeing what they do though
I think with the right compression, it won't be as big of a problem. For instance, Demon's Souls developers confirmed that they were sending data at 4 Gb/s, yet the download size is roughly 55 GB (IIRC). If at 6 Gb/s the download size of a truly, jaw-dropping next-gen game is 80 GB, I don't think anyone would mind, considering most Ubisoft titles, COD, RDR2, CP2077, SW BF2, are 100+ Gbs.
 

scydrex

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Of course. But to the gamer, they’re loading games. Incredibly fast. But QR aside, many games simply load faster on XSX, but that mostly comes down to the fact that they’re cross gen.

What native game on XSX load faster than PS5? Putting aside cross gen or BC?
 

rickybooby87

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Microsoft and nvidia have hardware decompressors only the ps5 has more hardware than just the decompressor

You need all those chips to remove this latencies

Its not just having a decompressor and high bandwidths the latencies have to be removed its only the ps5 ssd that can be used as ram. And heres one reason why series x games already have trouble with popin this shows that ssd still has bottlenecks..
Series x:

Ps5:

Mind you we havent even seen games using unreal 5 and such engines centered at realtime data streaming this could be a real problem for series x.

Real time asset/texture streaming is the real game changer, in this regard, seconds matter.
 

abel empire

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I feel all the conversations focus on what the tech can do rather that how it can be implemented/leveraged. And there's very little talk of the constraints outside the hardware like file sizes etc. You can have 8K assets for everything but how big are they going to be? I think the premise is wrong anyway though. Given the UE5 demo, the biggest leap/benefit - for me - is clearly going to be Nanite and Lumens (and whatever proprietary engines choose to call this when implemented).

Basically it boils down to JiT on assets being loaded. It doesn't really matter that it can load what's to the right of your character in 2/3 seconds because it's a known quantity. It can just be brute forced by having more memory. The only reason to not do so would be if your assets are absolutely massive in each camera view, which is plausible if you wanted to do that - but again, this will be managed by Nanite (or equivalent) and vessel size rather than the tech. Games are already using some Quixel megascans now in certain areas - you have simple decals that can be rendered in 8k but no one is going to do that. It was actually touched on by the UE guys as well referencing the static demo (UE5 demo) against real world game sizes - they're not expecting everyone to be shipping 8k Megascans for all assets.



In terms of where this would actually be useful/most beneficial would be procedurally generated games (which may become more commonplace), or those generated with ML. Basically in scenario's where you don't know what is round a corner because it is random/generated JiT as well. I'm not sure if the portals are random in Ratchet but that would be a good use case for example. If you can glance a placeholder image of 4/5 different large area's but it doesn't know which one to commit to until you activate it. The caveat being that this is useful when your memory pool can't cache 2/3 divergent paths based on player choice.



That's a developer implementation issue with Unreal and how they load/unload collectible assets only, the game itself is solid while playing (and one cutscene iirc). It's just as much of a non issue as popin on Dirt 5 and Valhalla having pop in on their next gen versions at various junctures.
Bigger game sizes are innevitable, if you want better graphics you need more data we moved form ps1 700mb discs plus 2mb ram to ps2 4gb discs 32mb ram to ps3 50gb bluray 500mb ram to ps4 500gb-1tb hdd and 8gb ram its always beeb 16x the memory graphics are always memory bound more detail means more memory its only this gen we had a 2x leap in ram and stuck at 1 tv drives because memory vecame expensive we were supposed to have 128gb of ram if memory kept bejng cheaper and to continue the 16x trend the only solution was using the chaper ssds as virtual ram and its only sony who managed to pull it off without that wed be only getting more pixels and faster frames but less detail, cod games are already 250gb in size so you better start expecting 250gb games easily. The ps5 is the only nextgen console in that regard the series x is more of an improved one x. And pcs are held back by their architectures whatll hapoen is pc games will start using more ram in the expense of the ps5 io if sony ports ps5 exclusives to pc. Graphics is always a memory topic. memory prices are the reason graphics are held back.
 
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cormack12

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Bigger game sizes are innevitable, if you want better graphics you need more data we moved form ps1 700mb discs plus 2mb ram to ps2 4gb discs 32mb ram to ps3 50gb bluray 500mb ram to ps4 500gb-1tb hdd and 8gb ram its always beeb 16x the memory graphics are always memory bound more detail means more memory its only this gen we had a 2x leap in ram and stuck at 1 tv drives because memory vecame expensive we were supposed to have 128gb of ram if memory kept bejng cheaper and to continue the 16x trend the only solution was using the chaper ssds as virtual ram and its only sony who managed to pull it off without that wed be only getting more pixels and faster frames but less detail, cod games are already 250gb in size so you better start expecting 250gb games easily. The ps5 is the only nextgen console in that regard the series x is more of an improved one x. And pcs are held back by their architectures whatll hapoen is pc games will start using more ram in the expense of the ps5 io if sony ports ps5 exclusives to pc. Graphics is always a memory topic. memory prices are the reason graphics are held back.

I agree, but there is still a limit of what can be moved before saturating the entire pipeline. Some games have 4k texture packs you can download for Gen 8 but that's not every asset/decal at 4k and you'd probably need to break it apart to understand if the models have been exported at higher fidelity too. Most scenes will be a mixture. No one will be expecting 250GB games as standard, that's ridiculous and not only because of the size but because of the effort on art departments and any licensing of minor assets that would be required for smaller studios. There is already significant pushback against Activision for this which they've listened to. And then you look at devs who are actively bringing game sizes down like Gearbox, Digital Extreme and Remedy. COD is so big because it's also uncompressed, whereas games like Demon's Souls and MM will uncompress the data in the GPU memory for use instead of making you store all the uncompressed files on your tier 1 storage. Also offloading the decompression will mean there is less of a need to store them uncompressed anyway.

Gen 8 consoles are still the biggest limiting factor, PCs are the second lowest denominator if publishers dont specify SSD. We'll have to see if that changes. I suspect it will but not until the big pubs like EA, Acti, Ubisoft leave behind PS4/X1X etc. Ultimately art fidelity will increase but it's not going to be suddenly everything is in glorious 4K resolution (assets/textures), and the other benefits from decompression, dedupe etc will probably keep this in check (~80gb being the high end I would imagine).

PS use BD-XL (source) and Xbox uses the same I believe. As long as games are shipping on physical media, you're doubling the production and shipping costs if you span your game on two discs as well. It's not just as simple as leveraging the tech and going full blast. It's going to be a journey, and there is already disruption in the air with UE5 and Nanite. Most (if not all) of Sonys first parties use proprietary engines so I'm not sure what this means long term. Will Sony Studio's switch to EPIC given the partnership on the demo, or will Sony studio's implement their own versions. On the flip side, most of the first parties are using UE already on the Microsoft side so it will be an interesting two years I think.
 
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synce

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Ain't happening. No company who values money is going to make a game that runs only on PS5 or Xbox. Ignoring PS4 and PC means ignoring over 200 million potential customers in favor of 10% of that. If anything, the SSD is the most overrated feature of the new consoles, since the load times are no better than anything on PC for anyone who already had an SSD.
 

HoofHearted

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Bigger game sizes are innevitable, if you want better graphics you need more data we moved form ps1 700mb discs plus 2mb ram to ps2 4gb discs 32mb ram to ps3 50gb bluray 500mb ram to ps4 500gb-1tb hdd and 8gb ram its always beeb 16x the memory graphics are always memory bound more detail means more memory its only this gen we had a 2x leap in ram and stuck at 1 tv drives because memory vecame expensive we were supposed to have 128gb of ram if memory kept bejng cheaper and to continue the 16x trend the only solution was using the chaper ssds as virtual ram and its only sony who managed to pull it off without that wed be only getting more pixels and faster frames but less detail, cod games are already 250gb in size so you better start expecting 250gb games easily. The ps5 is the only nextgen console in that regard the series x is more of an improved one x. And pcs are held back by their architectures whatll hapoen is pc games will start using more ram in the expense of the ps5 io if sony ports ps5 exclusives to pc. Graphics is always a memory topic. memory prices are the reason graphics are held back.

Punctuation can be useful ....

 
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abel empire

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I agree, but there is still a limit of what can be moved before saturating the entire pipeline. Some games have 4k texture packs you can download for Gen 8 but that's not every asset/decal at 4k and you'd probably need to break it apart to understand if the models have been exported at higher fidelity too. Most scenes will be a mixture. No one will be expecting 250GB games as standard, that's ridiculous and not only because of the size but because of the effort on art departments and any licensing of minor assets that would be required for smaller studios. There is already significant pushback against Activision for this which they've listened to. And then you look at devs who are actively bringing game sizes down like Gearbox, Digital Extreme and Remedy. COD is so big because it's also uncompressed, whereas games like Demon's Souls and MM will uncompress the data in the GPU memory for use instead of making you store all the uncompressed files on your tier 1 storage. Also offloading the decompression will mean there is less of a need to store them uncompressed anyway.

Gen 8 consoles are still the biggest limiting factor, PCs are the second lowest denominator if publishers dont specify SSD. We'll have to see if that changes. I suspect it will but not until the big pubs like EA, Acti, Ubisoft leave behind PS4/X1X etc. Ultimately art fidelity will increase but it's not going to be suddenly everything is in glorious 4K resolution (assets/textures), and the other benefits from decompression, dedupe etc will probably keep this in check (~80gb being the high end I would imagine).

PS use BD-XL (source) and Xbox uses the same I believe. As long as games are shipping on physical media, you're doubling the production and shipping costs if you span your game on two discs as well. It's not just as simple as leveraging the tech and going full blast. It's going to be a journey, and there is already disruption in the air with UE5 and Nanite. Most (if not all) of Sonys first parties use proprietary engines so I'm not sure what this means long term. Will Sony Studio's switch to EPIC given the partnership on the demo, or will Sony studio's implement their own versions. On the flip side, most of the first parties are using UE already on the Microsoft side so it will be an interesting two years I think.
As i said the problem isnt game sizes its the memory prices and not everygame would be 250gb but bug triple a games will playstation exvlusives pc games they all will 250gb isnt ridiculous its the memory pricing that makes people believe it is, back when i was a kid a 700mb game on a pentium pro pc sounded like incredibly huge considering we still played games on floppy disks uts the scarcity of memory that makes 250gb seem huge vut its inevitable, for nextgeneration graphics comes bigger memory budgets without that then nextgen consoles and newer gpus and processors are pountless, were still stuck with 8gb gpus and games only have better lighting and fps you can buy a 30 teraflop gpu but with 8gb vram your bot improving fidelity. Youll only improve performance. Games from playstation studios that use the ps5 ssd will be far apart in fidelity than anything else and i can bet a million box theylk be 250gb in size its inevitable what we should be angry about isnt sony making hardware advancements its memory prices andthe big industry that keep making memory expensive. Some gpus are back at 6gb, just imagine this crap.
 

HoofHearted

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Oct 28, 2020
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Getting my point is more useful than grammar. Were video game enthusiasts here not english students.
My point exactly... people will stop reading your posts and comments because you don’t take the time and effort to convey your thoughts properly.

Your “point” is lost because all people see are sentences with no structure, poor grammar, and a basic lack of understanding of the English language.
 
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abel empire

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Feb 8, 2021
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My point exactly... people will stop reading your posts and comments because you don’t take the time and effort to convey your thoughts properly.

Your “point” is lost because all people see are sentences with no structure, poor grammar, and a basic lack of understanding of the English language.
If they are reading my points to look for grammar mistakes then fair enough to each their own, but im sure anybody with common sense understands my points.
 

MonarchJT

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Sep 25, 2020
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You just replied gibberish., xbox wasnt engineered for streaming as ps5 because its ssd isnt as proprietary as tge ps5s its just an offshelf ssd with hardware decompression plus api's that make some efficiencies you cant use it as the ps5's. Popin isnt a bug popin is a storage to ram bottleneck it means textures didnt arrive in time in ram and it happens in alot of games on series x even the medium a series x exclusive that uses velocity architecture has popin. So try not to be salty and try understanding. Your denial wont fix series x bottlenecks.
let me say just this from your answer sem that you just have no idea of what you talking about.

firstly the nvme used in the Xbox series x unlike practically all other drives (including that of the ps5 albeit faster) has a "sustained" speed in this way developers have a guaranteed level of I/O performance at all times and will never be lower than the declared one. (in almost all other drives for thermal reasons the SSDs "slow down")

the xbox hw decompressor support zlib + bcpack, a library specialized in the compression of textures for streaming assets and although Sony has licensed the use for each of the first party something very similar (oodle texture) it is up to the developers to use it but it is not integrated into the hw (only Kraken is)

I understand that maybe not having who knows what technical notion it would seem nothing but the SFS is there in the Xbox hw exclusively to accelerate the streaming of assets allowing you to save large amount of bw we are talking about loading 1/3 of the textures that usually a gpu is forced to load (including the ps5) this is practically an objective multiplier of bw

On top of this the API directstorage allow to have much, much much MUCH more i/o calls for smaller assets (streaming) instead of a few calls where large amounts of data were loaded which then had to reside in the ram for a long time. Directstorage it serves to manage in a revolutionary way (we haven't seen change for more than 30 years !!) multiple i/o queue always prioritizing and minimizing latency
 

Dozer831

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May 23, 2020
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We've now reached the level where people are listening to the devs of fucking GODFALL.
Well, who should we trust with this information? People that actually make video games for a living or keyboard commandos? Tough choice.
UE5 developer (you know of the actual whole engine) said the same thing and now The Plane Effect developers are saying the same thing...hmmm
 

ManaByte

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Well, who should we trust with this information? People that actually make video games for a living or keyboard commandos? Tough choice.
UE5 developer (you know of the actual whole engine) said the same thing and now The Plane Effect developers are saying the same thing...hmmm

They also didn't know the correct amount of RAM to run their own game at 4K.