• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Social Godfall Dev Expects PS5 SSD To Be ‘Biggest Overall Game-Changer’ In Next Few Years

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,408
805
No, they aren't. You have no idea what you are talking about. All these developers didn't just suddenly forget they need to render these things.
Do you really think the devs are gonna wake up one day and go "OH FUCK I FORGOT WE HAVE TO USE THE GPU".
Not at all. My point is it's just PR. Me pointing out the struggles with non-sophisticated games releasing now can't be ignored. No one here can deny that the GPU won't be a limiting factor with all of this PR talk about the SSD.
 

abel empire

Member
Feb 8, 2021
592
1,428
385
Not at all. My point is it's just PR. Me pointing out the struggles with non-sophisticated games releasing now can't be ignored. No one here can deny that the GPU won't be a limiting factor with all of this PR talk about the SSD.
It seems you still havent seen unreal 5 and demons souls or maybe you dont understand gow the ssd improves graphics. Calling it pr after what they showed with unreal 5 is just plain ignorance.

Ssds dont render graphics they feed the gpu with rendering data you can have all the teraflops in the world but its pointless if you dont have enough data to render. The ps5s ssd improves detail significantly because it allows you to stream required rendering data so fast. As explained by cerny you have 1 second of useful data in ram as opposed to old techniques where you stored 30 seconds of data in ram which made most of the ram useless. The ssd and io on ps5 makes sure the teraflops are put to full use. You can essentially have a scene with 100gb of data on 16gb ram as weve seen on unreal 5 the gpu isnt rendering 100gb of data per frame it unloads and uploads data each frame as you move or turn the camera unreal 5s streaming memory budget is 700mb its not the whole 16gb its the ssd and io bandwidth that allows you to stream all those 100s of gb in realtime on a scene, as a infustry professional i thought youd understand how it works but it seems you either dont or are trolling or its the usual pc master race fanboy bias from you,
 
Last edited:

Elog

Member
Aug 28, 2016
736
2,977
470
TL;DR, goal post got moved from "Only the PS5 can do Y" to "The PS5 and XSX can do Y better than an equivalent PC".
No shit Sherlock.
You must have a bad day - that is not what I wrote and you know it.

The real TLDR is that consoles are superior to the PC platform in this regard due to the PCIe bus and even though MS tries to create faster software based solutions the VRAM amplification difference between the PS5 and the XSX is probably the biggest difference between the two consoles given the increased latency with the MS solution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FrankWza

Elios83

Member
Jun 30, 2004
15,107
1,711
1,770
I think that Ratchet and Clank while technically still a launch window/first gen software will be really interesting to look at in June as the first PS5 conceived next gen game with ray tracing and SSD in mind.
Maybe some people will find out that what developers have been saying about SSD being a big changer for assets streaming and the way games are designed is not just for PR ;) just like when they were saying last year that the two consoles would be really close they were not joking or doing PR.
 

dcmk7

Member
Mar 25, 2020
765
2,446
350
Quite a few of the Xbox crowd seem to be in this PlayStation thread and seem to be going to great pains, in a cringeworthy fashion, to dispute some developer comments wrong. Seem very concerned.

Is there really nothing else for you lot to do? Except attempt to start a console war in every PlayStation thread now? Sad.
 

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,474
4,375
725
Quick, someone ask the devs of Destruction Allstars what they think.

Ask Bethesda. What’s the criteria though? Do you need to have released a next gen only game? They may not be able to answer for a while. :)
I think that Ratchet and Clank while technically still a launch window/first gen software will be really interesting to look at in June as the first PS5 conceived next gen game with ray tracing and SSD in mind.
Maybe some people will find out that what developers have been saying about SSD being a big changer for assets streaming and the way games are designed is not just for PR ;) just like when they were saying last year that the two consoles would be really close they were not joking or doing PR.
it’s tough because, while the x and PS5 are being held back overall by the series s, the PS5 is facing the same issue and being held back by the I/O on the x. It’s a bottleneck at half the speed. Shame.
 
  • Empathy
  • LOL
Reactions: Riky and jaysius

dcmk7

Member
Mar 25, 2020
765
2,446
350
Is it good yet?
You're don't seem be coping too well.

It's widely acknowledged that the SSD in the PS5 is better between the two consoles. So you shouldn't let an article adding to that viewpoint trigger you at all.

Why, oh why, are you so concerned?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: FrankWza

Elios83

Member
Jun 30, 2004
15,107
1,711
1,770
Ask Bethesda. What’s the criteria though? Do you need to have released a next gen only game? They may not be able to answer for a while. :)

it’s tough because, while the x and PS5 are being held back overall by the series s, the PS5 is facing the same issue and being held back by the I/O on the x. It’s a bottleneck at half the speed. Shame.

You can't expect multiplatform games to do much about it.
It will take until late 2022 to get rid of the PS4/Xbox One legacy, let alone for a slower SSD to become a bottleneck.
New tech is properly showcased through exclusive software, this is why R&C will be really interesting as the first true next gen PS5 exclusive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: luca_29_bg and MrS

Edokataki

Neo Member
Sep 18, 2020
49
59
120
31
Germany
Sony better hope this is true, I think by the end of the gen PS5 will be viewed as a failure unless Cerny really did have an ace up his sleeve with this thing, that really will set PS5 exclusives apart.

As a PS5 owner, there are some benefits but Gamepass really is starting to bring in buyer's remorse, considering the main argument against choosing XSX is the PS5 exclusives, of which there currently is...one.
Wow, it's 6 months from the launch month, how many exclusives you wanted to have? And the comming months you will have even more but you want this year to have 20 exclusives and every other year to have even more to be able to say that you can excuse buying ps5?
 

Jaysen

Member
Mar 19, 2021
634
1,231
350
You're don't seem be coping too well.

It's widely acknowledged that the SSD in the PS5 is better between the two consoles. So you shouldn't let an article adding to that viewpoint trigger you at all.

Why, oh why, are you so concerned?
I’m fine with my PS5 and XSX. I own GTA 5, Destiny 2, and Immortals on both. All load faster on XSX. None were fully designed for the new hardware though.
 
Jan 3, 2021
232
369
240
one fact is absolute: best looking, most technical masterpiece games will hail from ps5 exclusives

there's no game on xbox platform that can match the visual quality/story/experience the ps exclusives such as god of war, tlou 2 and such provides. only 3rd party game rdr 2 may be an outlier, but rest is bleak

i cant even fathom to think what will those developers achieve on such a complex, high quality system considering how crazy god of war looks on a freaking base ps4 from 2013 which had a slow harddrive, tablet cpu and 1.8 tflops of computing power

despite what you say, ps4 was weak for its time. ps5 is not. it actually has tons of technologies that are not materialized in pc platform yet. it's true that 3rd party games will not benefit from these much, but exclusive games... crazy things are bound to happen with ps5

santa monica and naughy dogs will be free to abuse whatever ps5 can give them. they have no constraints. on pc, developers will still have to accomodate for SLOW sata ssds. the adoption rate is so slow on pc. majority of pc gamers have yet to transition from slow hdds to sata ssds, let alone high speed nvme ssds. and those crazy high nvme disks are too expensive to get to, they also need shiny new motherboards, special new rtx gpus and amd gpus for specific i/o calculations, and even then, there's no guarantee that developers will utilize them, because they are not free to do whatever they want on PC due to these limits and constraints
 
Last edited:

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,474
4,375
725
You can't expect multiplatform games to do much about it.
It will take until late 2022 to get rid of the PS4/Xbox One legacy, let alone for a slower SSD to become a bottleneck.
New tech is properly showcased through exclusive software, this is why R&C will be really interesting as the first true next gen PS5 exclusive.
It’s just a shame to have this unprecedented tech that is going to be held back most of this gen. To have a console with a component the rest of the industry hasn’t caught up with is rare.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N1tr0sOx1d3

Warnen

Can he swing from a thread? Take a look overhead / Hey, there, there goes the Spider-Man
Sep 24, 2005
5,635
5,537
1,885
Sea lab
Hope so cause so far means nothing at all unless you need them 2 extra seconds in a few games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riky

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,408
805
It seems you still havent seen unreal 5 and demons souls or maybe you dont understand gow the ssd improves graphics. Calling it pr after what they showed with unreal 5 is just plain ignorance.
I have Demon Souls and did a full graphics analysis on it. It's not using the SSD by pulling in large amounts of triangles/textures per frame like the UE5 demo does. I showed my evidence and even reached out to Bluepoint questioning this with no response. At this point no one can point to me in the game where it's using it.

Ssds dont render graphics they feed the gpu with rendering data you can have all the teraflops in the world but its pointless if you dont have enough data to render.
I know how things work man. I don't know why you guys can't have a decent conversation without resorting to trying to make me look ignorant. It derails the thread.

My claim is that the consoles struggle to render even the simplest of games where their limitation is always resolution or FPS and downgraded shaders. If you push more geometry and textures, you starve the shader pipeline of resources to render at decent resolution and FPS. This generation seems to have abandoned the RT as it will require way more bandwidth than the SSD->VRAM pipeline.
 

MonarchJT

Member
Sep 25, 2020
2,198
3,193
375
the game demands more vram with ray tracing enabled. that's what developers referred to.


but game also drops frames at 1440p with a 3070 with rt enabled

because as I said ... it is highly useless to have so much i / o if you have a much less performing gpu than a 3070. The gpu will hardly be able (in the real world and not on paper) to render all so fast
 
Jan 3, 2021
232
369
240
The fanboy delusion is just too much at this point.
simple math, ps4, with its 750ti equivalent gpu power, managed to catch up with gtx 770-780

practically, it can pack 2 times more punch

ps5 is near rtx 2070 super

3090 is roughly 2 times faster than 2070 super

simple math, your precious 3090 will barely render what ps5 will render in 2025+ AAA games

(i'm ignoring lower than low arguments. i played RDR 2 on a ps4. it looks gorgeous, period. i don't care which setting is low or high, or medium. no matter what you do, gtx 770-780 won't provide enjoyable experience like ps4 did)
 
Last edited:

abel empire

Member
Feb 8, 2021
592
1,428
385
I have Demon Souls and did a full graphics analysis on it. It's not using the SSD by pulling in large amounts of triangles/textures per frame like the UE5 demo does. I showed my evidence and even reached out to Bluepoint questioning this with no response. At this point no one can point to me in the game where it's using it.


I know how things work man. I don't know why you guys can't have a decent conversation without resorting to trying to make me look ignorant. It derails the thread.

My claim is that the consoles struggle to render even the simplest of games where their limitation is always resolution or FPS and downgraded shaders. If you push more geometry and textures, you starve the shader pipeline of resources to render at decent resolution and FPS. This generation seems to have abandoned the RT as it will require way more bandwidth than the SSD->VRAM pipeline.
First of all i debunked your demon souls analysis as digital foundry already did an interview with the developers and they said they use the ssd to stream data and gave an example that they stream 3gbs of data just before u turn a corner the whole world is full of tesselated polygons that even in wireframe mode it looks like pixels. Heres the interview go watch it.
Secondly just because a game struggles in fps because of traditional methods doesnt mean itll struggle because of modern methods what your suggesting is fast ssds are pointless and more memory is pointless. Which is ridiculous. What unreal 5 is rendering per frame on ps5 would crash any system using traditional methods thats exactly the point you dont seem to understand. A scene in unreal 5 has 100s of gb of texture and geometric data youll need 100+gb of ram to just be able to play it what the ps5 ssd is doing is immitating those 100gb of ram by streaming only the data needed by the gpu per frame so the gpu only renders 700mb of the data each frame on its streaming pool its not rendering 100gb of data in 1 frame. This allows the ps5 to have more detailed worlds without having 100s of gb or ram. Maybe its engineering that u dont seem to understand. Mark cerny and all the devs praising the ps5 in that regard arent stupid. These people have been in the industry before 3d video games existed and engineer/patent rendering methods all their life.
 

dcmk7

Member
Mar 25, 2020
765
2,446
350
I have Demon Souls and did a full graphics analysis on it. It's not using the SSD by pulling in large amounts of triangles/textures per frame like the UE5 demo does. I showed my evidence and even reached out to Bluepoint questioning this with no response. At this point no one can point to me in the game where it's using it.


Sorry to be somewhat ignorant. But in your analysis you, in your own words, speculated on how the SSD was working. You left it with a question mark.. but you had a hunch:

"One of the topics of argument is whether Demon Souls uses the SSD to stream the high res 8k textures in per frame. I don't think this is the case. Why? Because despite having incredible detail, the same textures are used over and over again. It is very possible that they cached those textures for a particular level and keep them in VRAM for all the instances of the same texture. I don't see much variety on a per-level basis like other games that use multiple different textures palattes and color schemes. I've reached out to Bluepoint's CEO with no response on the matter. "

And now it's definitely not using the SSD per frame according to you? I'm sure I have read just the other day from a BluePoint developer(I believe, will need check) that they stream the textures in just before the player turns a corner, it's that fast.

Which somewhat contradicts your theory but I am not ruling out that I might have the wrong end of the stick.
 
Last edited:

MonarchJT

Member
Sep 25, 2020
2,198
3,193
375
simple math, ps4, with its 750ti equivalent gpu power, managed to catch up with gtx 770-780

practically, it can pack 2 times more punch

ps5 is near rtx 2070 super

3090 is roughly 2 times faster than 2070 super

simple math, your precious 3090 will barely render what ps5 will render in 2025+ AAA games

(i'm ignoring lower than low arguments. i played RDR 2 on a ps4. it looks gorgeous, period. i don't care which setting is low or high, or medium. no matter what you do, gtx 770-780 won't provide enjoyable experience like ps4 did)
No, stop it
 
Jan 3, 2021
232
369
240
No, stop it
can't handle the truth, can you? lmao

series x will decimate a 3090 4 years later. ps5 too. simple maths

a xbox one x, with practically a rx 480 chip, runs rdr 2 at native 4k, locked 30 fps, with good graphical settings

rx 480 on the other hand can't even lock to 60 fps at 1080p, it renders 15-16 fps in 4k.

how graceful, huh?

consoles have superior optimizations, but cpu and gpu wise, they can perform up to 2.5 times more efficient with same power. easy as that. if you cant comprehend this fact, i have no other words for you.t hey're superior devices that are designed specifically to play games
 
Last edited:

Jon Neu

..he neus nothing
Jan 21, 2018
4,339
9,141
755
Republic of Catalonia
simple math, ps4, with its 750ti equivalent gpu power, managed to catch up with gtx 770-780

practically, it can pack 2 times more punch

ps5 is near rtx 2070 super

3090 is roughly 2 times faster than 2070 super

simple math, your precious 3090 will barely render what ps5 will render in 2025+ AAA games

 

Nester99

Member
Sep 17, 2016
2,695
3,076
490
BC
one fact is absolute: best looking, most technical masterpiece games will hail from ps5 exclusives

there's no game on xbox platform that can match the visual quality/story/experience the ps exclusives such as god of war, tlou 2 and such provides. only 3rd party game rdr 2 may be an outlier, but rest is bleak

i cant even fathom to think what will those developers achieve on such a complex, high quality system considering how crazy god of war looks on a freaking base ps4 from 2013 which had a slow harddrive, tablet cpu and 1.8 tflops of computing power

despite what you say, ps4 was weak for its time. ps5 is not. it actually has tons of technologies that are not materialized in pc platform yet. it's true that 3rd party games will not benefit from these much, but exclusive games... crazy things are bound to happen with ps5

santa monica and naughy dogs will be free to abuse whatever ps5 can give them. they have no constraints. on pc, developers will still have to accomodate for SLOW sata ssds. the adoption rate is so slow on pc. majority of pc gamers have yet to transition from slow hdds to sata ssds, let alone high speed nvme ssds. and those crazy high nvme disks are too expensive to get to, they also need shiny new motherboards, special new rtx gpus and amd gpus for specific i/o calculations, and even then, there's no guarantee that developers will utilize them, because they are not free to do whatever they want on PC due to these limits and constraints

Anyone who starts an "opinion" with "one fact is absolute" is not worth having a discussion with.

I Hope your right, and you might be, but this is not a sure thing.
 

shenmue mugen

Member
Nov 1, 2006
603
531
1,360
I have Demon Souls and did a full graphics analysis on it. It's not using the SSD by pulling in large amounts of triangles/textures per frame like the UE5 demo does. I showed my evidence and even reached out to Bluepoint questioning this with no response. At this point no one can point to me in the game where it's using it.


I know how things work man. I don't know why you guys can't have a decent conversation without resorting to trying to make me look ignorant. It derails the thread.

My claim is that the consoles struggle to render even the simplest of games where their limitation is always resolution or FPS and downgraded shaders. If you push more geometry and textures, you starve the shader pipeline of resources to render at decent resolution and FPS. This generation seems to have abandoned the RT as it will require way more bandwidth than the SSD->VRAM pipeline.
Do you think that with the advent of Unreal 5 for PS5/Series we can finally be free from LOD transitions that is always present in traditional rendering techniques?
 

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,408
805
First of all i debunked your demon souls analysis as digital foundry already did an interview with the developers and they said they use the ssd to stream data and gave an example that they stream 3gbs of data just before u turn a corner the whole world is full of tesselated polygons that even in wireframe mode it looks like pixels. Heres the interview go watch it.
You didn't debunk anything. I challenged anyone to point to or make a video of the feature like in UE5 demo. I have yet to see it. If it's so blatantly obvious - SHOW ME IN A VIDEO so I can go to that area in the game! If you can't do it, then why talk about it like you know it's there?

Secondly just because a game struggles in fps because of traditional methods doesnt mean itll struggle because of modern methods what your suggesting is fast ssds are pointless and more memory is pointless. Which is ridiculous.

No. I'm suggesting that THE ENTIRE PIPELINE has to be efficient in order to get amazing visuals. What good is it to have static high res geometry but you can't cast high resolution shadows and the overall lighting looks blocky and flat?

What unreal 5 is rendering per frame on ps5 would crash any system using traditional methods thats exactly the point you dont seem to understand. A scene in unreal 5 has 100s of gb of texture and geometric data youll need 100+gb of ram to just be able to play it what the ps5 ssd is doing is immitating those 100gb of ram by streaming only the data needed by the gpu per frame so the gpu only renders 700mb of the data each frame on its streaming pool its not rendering 100gb of data in 1 frame. This allows the ps5 to have more detailed worlds without having 100s of gb or ram. Maybe its engineering that u dont seem to understand. Mark cerny and all the devs praising the ps5 in that regard arent stupid. These people have been in the industry before 3d video games existed and engineer/patent rendering methods all their life.
If you can't challenge my claims in the realworld, you are nothing but a fanboy hiding behind developers you don't even know. I can challenge a developer because I am one myself and have experience in rendering just like they do. But you discredit my own experience simply because of my claims without any experience yourself?
 
Last edited:

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,408
805
Do you think that with the advent of Unreal 5 for PS5/Series we can finally be free from LOD transitions that is always present in traditional rendering techniques?
No. We'll not be rid of that at all. As the complexity of a game grows, the hardware will become limited in what it can do. Just because we have fast SSD to VRAM doesn't mean we can throw anything at it and it gets processed effectively in any scenario.
 
Jun 1, 2016
1,764
2,182
660
You didn't debunk anything. I challenged anyone to point to or make a video of the feature like in UE5 demo. I have yet to see it. If it's so blatantly obvious - SHOW ME IN A VIDEO so I can go to that area in the game! If you can't do it, then why talk about it like you know it's there?



No. I'm suggesting that THE ENTIRE PIPELINE has to be efficient in order to get amazing visuals. What good is it to have static high res geometry but you can't cast high resolution shadows and the overall lighting looks blocky and flat?


If you can't challenge my claims in the realworld, you are nothing but a fanboy hiding behind developers you don't even know. I can challenge a developer because I am one myself and have experience in rendering just like they do. But you discredit my own experience simply because of my claims without any experience yourself?
Keep being awesome.
 

abel empire

Member
Feb 8, 2021
592
1,428
385
You didn't debunk anything. I challenged anyone to point to or make a video of the feature like in UE5 demo. I have yet to see it. If it's so blatantly obvious - SHOW ME IN A VIDEO so I can go to that area in the game! If you can't do it, then why talk about it like you know it's there?



No. I'm suggesting that THE ENTIRE PIPELINE has to be efficient in order to get amazing visuals. What good is it to have static high res geometry but you can't cast high resolution shadows and the overall lighting looks blocky and flat?


If you can't challenge my claims in the realworld, you are nothing but a fanboy hiding behind developers you don't even know. I can challenge a developer because I am one myself and have experience in rendering just like they do. But you discredit my own experience simply because of my claims without any experience yourself?
Your the fanboy here criticising the ps5s io advantage because its on a console and not your beloved pc, the ps5s io importance has already been shown by unreal 5 and demon souls, your ignorance and denial of facts from developers the actual people who engineered the games is astonishing you seem to believe whatever lies u create in ur own little box. I remember you even claimed that demon souls is using parralax occlusion mapping and it wasnt it was using tessellation and anybody who has the slightest understanding of computer graphics could see it. So keep your fake denial it seems to be some religion to you and im not surprised your notoriously known as a pc masterace fanatic and every fact goes out the window whenever consoles have cutting edge technology. So keep denying and have a good day you know more about graphics than game devs and people who engineered the ps5.🤣
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Jun 1, 2013
8,974
3,966
850
Called it from the start, and was bombed down for it.

It's this gens Kinect.



You guys were fast to find new excuses. Now the inferior pc is the reason why it doesn't happen.

Curse pc and their mechanical HDDs

The parallel between them was it that both were bullshit.

Ssds are useful for games, but the way cerny said they were superior to modern Ssds were bullshit.

Of course Ssds are useful. Faster loading times, where Kinect was a camera.

But Matrick saying the Kinect was the core of xbox and it could not be sold without it is like cerny saying he invented the super duper ssd.

'Its this gen's Kinect.'

The entire gaming industry, including MS, and gpu makers, are going to start leveraging SSD, I/O. Many are doing it now on a basic level.

?

At the time Cerny said that there were no consumer SSD's on the market faster than 5.5Gb/s, so how can it be compared to Don and Kinect? Sony havent posted the compatible SSD's, havent even unlocked the internal slot yet. I'm willing to bet its because there were none on the market that were compatible. There should be some now.

Sony just invested more tech into their SSD, I/O. SSD's will be in all next gen consoles. Every.Single.One. Kinect was an accessory that MS tried to make mandatory.

I fail to see the connection.

About PC and their mechanical HDD, there are a such thing as console exclusives/platform exclusives.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: FrankWza

MonarchJT

Member
Sep 25, 2020
2,198
3,193
375
No. We'll not be rid of that at all. As the complexity of a game grows, the hardware will become limited in what it can do. Just because we have fast SSD to VRAM doesn't mean we can throw anything at it and it gets processed effectively in any scenario.
i don't even know how many times i already said this ) thanks. We have games that are already putting the ps5 (and also the Xbox to be clear) rendering capacity in difficulty where developers are forced to lower the resolution. Ok of course the optimization of the First party will do their part, but to think that an SSD solves what has always been the main pivot of the whole rendering process (the gpu) is totally stupid, but unfortunately it is the type of marketing which sony chose (due to the deficit of its gpu) so i understand console fans.
 
Last edited:

Hunnybun

Member
Jun 3, 2020
1,009
1,176
355
i don't even know how many times i already said this ) thanks. We have games that are already putting the ps5 (and also the Xbox to be clear) rendering capacity in difficulty where developers are forced to lower the resolution. Ok of course the optimization of the First party will do their part, but to think that an SSD solves what has always been the main pivot of the whole rendering process (the gpu) is totally stupid, but unfortunately it is the type of marketing which sony chose (due to the deficit of its gpu) so i understand console fans.

Do you seriously think the less powerful GPU and the faster SSD are totally unrelated?!

Why do you think the Xbox SSD is less advanced? Surely because they couldn't afford the faster option while staying within their budget? Why couldn't they afford it? Surely because they decided to allocate their budget to other things, e.g. their powerful GPU? Isn't that just common sense?!

Nobody is saying that a fast SSD is a perfect substitute for a powerful GPU. The argument, roughly, is that suffering, say, a 25% reduction in resolution is worth it for a >100% increase in the I/O.

That's not to say it's the correct calculation. But that does seem to be the argument that Sony is effectively making.
 

MonarchJT

Member
Sep 25, 2020
2,198
3,193
375
Do you seriously think the less powerful GPU and the faster SSD are totally unrelated?!

Why do you think the Xbox SSD is less advanced? Surely because they couldn't afford the faster option while staying within their budget? Why couldn't they afford it? Surely because they decided to allocate their budget to other things, e.g. their powerful GPU? Isn't that just common sense?!

Nobody is saying that a fast SSD is a perfect substitute for a powerful GPU. The argument, roughly, is that suffering, say, a 25% reduction in resolution is worth it for a >100% increase in the I/O.

That's not to say it's the correct calculation. But that does seem to be the argument that Sony is effectively making.
Unfortunately yes, I believe that the two decisions took place at different times (gpu and customization of the I / O) obviously aware of the fact that a higher i / o would only do the console good.
 

Hunnybun

Member
Jun 3, 2020
1,009
1,176
355
Unfortunately yes, I believe that the two decisions took place at different times (gpu and customization of the I / O) obviously aware of the fact that a higher i / o would only do the console good.

That seems ridiculous.

Surely there's a cost involved, isn't there? If not, why doesn't the Xbox have the same SSD?

And if there IS a cost involved, then that cos affects the budget for other components, no?

It seems incredible that the components of these consoles could be developed and designed in isolation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Panajev2001a

MonarchJT

Member
Sep 25, 2020
2,198
3,193
375
That seems ridiculous.

Surely there's a cost involved, isn't there? If not, why doesn't the Xbox have the same SSD?

And if there IS a cost involved, then that cos affects the budget for other components, no?

It seems incredible that the components of these consoles could be developed and designed in isolation.
Costs certainly have something to do with it. it's obvious. But it is not said that if you spend 400 $ on a gpu (I'm talking about consoles) that then ends up having just and only 6 gigabytes of ram is smart because we know it would be unbalanced. We could discuss all the day long and I'm sure we would never come to a conclusion because some of us think after the ps5 presentation that the i/o, (although I don't underestimate any of the obvious benefits it brings) is more important than a more performing and architecturally more advanced gpu, almost as if it were now the future of the computer graphics. Others like me think that the ps5 gpu in particular does not need that kind of i / o so high and that we will see minimal differences both in the First party and, even less in third party titles
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
18,830
12,437
2,110
That seems ridiculous.

Surely there's a cost involved, isn't there? If not, why doesn't the Xbox have the same SSD?

And if there IS a cost involved, then that cos affects the budget for other components, no?

It seems incredible that the components of these consoles could be developed and designed in isolation.

That is core of architecture design. To me PS5 made clear deliberate bets on SoC size (for cost), portion of the die to dedicate to the custom SSD I/O (and minimise latency and remove memory bandwidth waste, see cache scrubbers), and GPU design to hit the high frequency needed to hit their performance targets (then they figured out how to cool it and how to keep frequency high on CPU and GPU). The advantage of this approach was that a lot of the GPU core shared by the CU arrays is now running a lot faster and the CU’s themselves can handle branchy code (dynamic if statements).

If anything, including the Zen FPU customisations as well as other customisations inside the GPU too (geometry engine customisations, smartshift, and Coherency Engines + cache scrubbers) speak of a very coherent architecture approach not a series of jumps reacting to “the enemy’s plans”.