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[DonF]

To this day, I still don't know what gamer gate really is, and the fact that if I google it and the second result is a definition in "know your meme" tells me enough. Its blown out of proportion.

 

[AnimalFather]

To this day, I still don't know what gamer gate really is, and the fact that if I google it and the second result is a definition in "know your meme" tells me enough. Its blown out of proportion.

ill give you the cliffy notes;

female "game developer" who only "made" 1 flash game ex bf made a post accusing her of sleeping with 5 guys while they were together.
the internet found out some of those 5 guys were involved in the gaming press and had potentially given her favorable press. shady right?
internet started questioning "video game journalism" (which btw does not exist this was established in 2005 they are not journalists they are enthusiasts) and its credibility. instead of the gaming press accepting the well established status quo of the press and developers having this incestuous relationship they instead attacked gamers for questioning it and accused them of harassment, basically deflecting the issue and playing the victim card. The hashtag GamerGate was created by Animal Mother on twitter, and the rest is history.

 

[Dunki]

If you believe that gaming companies are making strategic decisions and changing the contents of their games and their original plans based on some angry gamers on Twitter, who they fundamentally disagree with but feel like their hands are tied over, then I suppose we just have to agree to disagree.

I think you have no idea. Of course they do this. Just like H&M did remove their "Coolest Monkey in the Jungle" photo. Social Media has become the most powerful too for censorship. Creating a shitstorm is pretty easy these days when you have a large following it will go very fast as well. And both sides are using these tactics.

 

[AnimalFather]

I think you have no idea. Of course they do this. Just like H&M did remove their "Coolest Monkey in the Jungle" photo. Social Media has become the most powerful too for censorship. Creating a shitstorm is pretty easy these days when you have a large following it will go very fast as well. And both sides are using these tactics.

its a bunch of losers without hobbies waiting to be angry at something, anything over the internet.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I do agree that we live in an age of “Professional Offended People.” Like it is literally some people’s job to be upset about something.

That being said, that doesn’t dismiss the fact that right is right and wrong is wrong. Some issues are real.

Writing off everything as “SJW nonsense is a mistake and unfair.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

I think you have no idea. Of course they do this. Just like H&M did remove their "Coolest Monkey in the Jungle" photo. Social Media has become the most powerful too for censorship. Creating a shitstorm is pretty easy these days when you have a large following it will go very fast as well. And both sides are using these tactics.

You don't think there's a possibility that the H&M executives (to use your example) listened to the feedback, agreed with it, and decided to stop selling it of their own accord?

I'm not sure you know what censorship really means. Even caving to public pressure against one's own beliefs/wishes wouldn't be censorship. It's the free market at work. You don't like what a company is doing? You're free to take your business elsewhere.

The government is not coming in and forcing H&M to stop selling that shirt.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

The top game on that list is a war game set during the biggest geopolitical event of the last 200 years. That's pretty political to me.

Show me where they're adding token things just to pander to people, you're adding this negative cynical intent to an action when you simply don't know if that's the case.

Andromeda was bad because it was bad. It's political message had nothing to do with all the bugs and horrible writing.

Don't be daft. If you want to go by the setting as a test for a game being political then so is Sim City.

Tho, CoD:WW2 was laughably politicized for silly reasons. Female soldiers in multiplayer. Black Nazis. Then again, this is also a game that includes giant WW2 robots and zombies. Still, their inclusion wasn't overly intrusive so it didn't make too many waves or affect the sales of the game. It is fantasy entertainment.

 

[nowhat]

Writing off everything as “SJW nonsense is a mistake and unfair.

(as a disclaimer, I'm not a fan of overt political correctness and do very much believe in artistic freedom - at the same time, I try to avoid being a dick and it's something I expect of other people too)

I think there are terms that have become so tainted that I have a hard time taking a person seriously when those are used. In my opinion using the term "SJW" is like making a comparison to Nazis - while the comparison may be apt (and it very, very seldom is), it just makes me gloss over the argument completely.

 

[Dunki]

You don't think there's a possibility that the H&M executives (to use your example) listened to the feedback, agreed with it, and decided to stop selling it of their own accord?

I'm not sure you know what censorship really means. Even caving to public pressure against one's own beliefs/wishes wouldn't be censorship. It's the free market at work. You don't like what a company is doing? You're free to take your business elsewhere.

The government is not coming in and forcing H&M to stop selling that shirt.

Censorship, the suppression of words, images, or ideas that are "offensive," happens whenever some people succeed in imposing their personal political or moral values on others. Censorship can be carried out by the government as well as private pressure groups. Censorship by the government is unconstitutional.

In contrast, when private individuals or groups organize boycotts against stores that sell magazines of which they disapprove, their actions are protected by the First Amendment, although they can become dangerous in the extreme. Private pressure groups, not the government, promulgated and enforced the infamous Hollywood blacklists during the McCarthy period. But these private censorship campaigns are best countered by groups and individuals speaking out and organizing in defense of the threatened expression.

IT is still censorship if you want it or not,

https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship

 

[Deleted member 12837]

IT is still censorship if you want it or not,

https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship

Under that umbrella, it would be censorship any time a corporation makes a profit-based decision resulting from politicial or moral sentiment (either popular or from a vocal minority). As in, catering to their customers.

That’s not really the type of “censorship” I’d be concerned with, but maybe it’s the type you were referring to, in which case that part of my response no longer applies. The rest still does, though.

 

[Dunki]

Under that umbrella, it would be censorship any time a corporation makes a profit-based decision resulting from politicial or moral sentiment (either popular or from a vocal minority). As in, catering to their customers.

That’s not really the type of “censorship” I’d be concerned with, but maybe it’s the type you were referring to, in which case that part of my response no longer applies. The rest still does, though.

The problem here is that it has become way too easy to start shitstorms on social media which then have lead to a change in a Produkt or the item completely removed from the shelf. When you combine words like sexist and racist its pretty easy to censor these days because Companies do not want to take the image lost even if its not true. Look at nolan Bushnell for example. He had no other choice then the message he has sent otherwise it would have been over for him.

I think some people still totally misjudge the power social media has today in good and bad things.

 

[Lupingosei]

Somehow the whole #notnolan thing shows again why a movement like Gamergate does not just vanish. Feelings were more important than facts and now everybody somehow tries to back paddle.

 

[TheGraykid]

Don't be daft. If you want to go by the setting as a test for a game being political then so is Sim City.

Tho, CoD:WW2 was laughably politicized for silly reasons. Female soldiers in multiplayer. Black Nazis. Then again, this is also a game that includes giant WW2 robots and zombies. Still, their inclusion wasn't overly intrusive so it didn't make too many waves or affect the sales of the game. It is fantasy entertainment.

A game that is set during a real-life war, and has you play as characters participating in that war. Yes, that is political. Real-life places and battles are being illustrated here.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

You don't think there's a possibility that the H&M executives (to use your example) listened to the feedback, agreed with it, and decided to stop selling it of their own accord?

I'm not sure you know what censorship really means. Even caving to public pressure against one's own beliefs/wishes wouldn't be censorship. It's the free market at work. You don't like what a company is doing? You're free to take your business elsewhere.

The government is not coming in and forcing H&M to stop selling that shirt.

The government doesn't need to if powerful groups form mobs to take "justice" in their own hands. Censorship isn't just done by government actors.

You are free to take your business elsewhere, but not free to ransack and loot their stores because some dipshit on twitter told you to be offended.

 

[KevinKeene]

Like it is literally some people’s job to be upset about something.

Not 'like'. It is. Just look around how many of these people make a living of youtube videos where there tell others what/who to be angry about.

These are people getting money from clicks or donations. That's what makes it extra irritating when some self-victimised trans 'woman' (for example) that never worked an uncomfortable job gathers pitchforks to get somebody fired who actually worked a hard job for years.

These people absolutely lack perspective. And they get rewarded with money from the good-will of people that think that person needs/deserves it.

To be fair, the same is true of the 'other side', see people like Shapiro, Crowder or Sargon. However, these wouldn't anywhere as popular if the social justice side of things wasn't this obnoxious.

I mean, how dare Anita ask EA for a job position as a consultant on their games? How full of oneself can you be? She's got no credentials other than some bad videos and thinks she has business with a billion dollar company. Absurd.

 

[PtM]

Games should be whatever gamers (IE the people paying and playing) want it to be.

It sure is nice to want things, but there's nothing games should be. Everybody's free to lobby for shit.

There’s plenty of blame to go around, but I always have to come back to the occurrences of gaming press treating game players like total shit, as if players are leagues beneath them. Then things exploded, and, well— the war rages on, years later.

There is no fucking war.

I think simply people can't differentiate between trolls and people who have legit opinions and grievances, trolls are an unfortunate constant of the internet and people need to learn to ignore them.

Truth.

games are about whatever the creator of the game wants them to be about

any "movement" that cannot accept that is trash


if a developer wants to censor their game, that's up to them.
if a developer wants to diversify its cast, that's up to them.
if a developer wants to make a political statement through their game, that's up to them.
if a developer wants to make a violent & sexist game, that's up to them.

If a developer wants to react to feedback, that's up to them.

It's also the way she phrases it. She could've just said "I would really like to see game developers experiment more with non-violent mechanics" and the vast majority of people here would probably agree. I certainly would. But the way she frames this opinion of hers, with surveys of the amount of violent games, putting it in graphs, stating how disappointed she is that there isn't much improvement compared to last year, and then saying game developers are basically lazy to rely on that same old violence, just rubs me the wrong way.

That's on you.

And it is worth noting, that at the end of the day, developers are indeed working for us "gamers". We are the ones who ultimately have to part with our hard earned money, exchanging it for their product.

You don't have to part with your money.
Developers work for themselves.

its a bunch of losers without hobbies waiting to be angry at something, anything over the internet.

Might as well be describing GG there.

 

[InterMusketeer]

You don't think there's a possibility that the H&M executives (to use your example) listened to the feedback, agreed with it, and decided to stop selling it of their own accord?

They apologized and stopped selling the shirt on day 1. That apology was not accepted, as people called for a boycott and started trashing H&M stores, stating the company is racist. The child model who wore the sweater and his family have since been moved to a secret locations because of threats. The mother didn't think the sweater was racist, and thought the outrage was overblown. I think in the end H&M apologized for the insensitive photo three or four times, and they hired a "diversity leader" who has to make sure their clothes are inclusive.

I seriously hope H&M caved to public pressure, and doesn't actually believe they were racist. That would be insane. This is nothing more than shitstorm started by a hate mob.

It sure is nice to want things

Such a dismissive phrase. Would you say the same to gay couples who want legislation of gay marriage?

 

[Dunki]

It sure is nice to want things, but there's nothing games should be. Everybody's free to lobby for shit.

There is no fucking war.

Some people call it culture war therefore also the definition of social justice Warrior

 

[TheGraykid]

I think there's a clear connection between her keeping score of how many violent games are shown at E3 (a rather specific thing to keep track of) and her statements on what she thinks of violent games. Ms. Sarkeesian's arguments and videos were covered widely by websites and newspapers, she was brought on TV-shows to talk about her work and she was even on Time's 2015 list of 100 most influential people. We're not talking about just some lady posting her opinions on youtube. She was given a platform by journalists who, as already stated in this thread, seem to hate their audience.

I don't want to keep bringing up Ms. Sarkeesian, because this thread's not about her. She's just a well-known example of a feminist critiquing games with very obvious ulterior motives. I guess you don't see that, and there's not much I can do about that. If you're truly interested, you should look her up yourself. I think most people in this thread would agree however, that what she's doing is definitely pushing an agenda. A feminist, social justice agenda that aims for equity.

People have types of games they like, and they ask for those games to exist. Literally everyone does this,except we don't use words like "ulterior motives" or "agenda" to describe those things. You're making it sound like she's performing some sinister act instead of just stating what she likes and wants more of, and what she doesn't like. She's not hiding anything. Her asking for more games she likes isn't an attack on your games. You're assuming that she wants to cut out the games you like instead of just encouraging more games that she does like. If we subbed out the words "violent" with multiplayer games she'd just be any video game forum poster. Also violence in video games has nothing to do with feminism or equality, so I don't know how that pushes any agenda aside from her personal taste.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

The problem here is that it has become way too easy to start shitstorms on social media which then have lead to a change in a Produkt or the item completely removed from the shelf. When you combine words like sexist and racist its pretty easy to censor these days because Companies do not want to take the image lost even if its not true. Look at nolan Bushnell for example. He had no other choice then the message he has sent otherwise it would have been over for him.

I think some people still totally misjudge the power social media has today in good and bad things.

Social media is just another outlet for customers to express their feedback and opinions. It’s just a lot louder and larger than what came before it. It’s not the only source of customer sentiment that companies turn to to gather information and research.

There’s nothing wrong with companies changing their minds or adjusting their product based on customer feedback.

What would be bad is if a vocal minority was forcing a company to make a decision that the company truly believed would make sales worse and/or make the game’s a average reviews/reception worse. Have any gaming company devs or execs come out and admitted that?

 

[Dunki]

Social media is just another outlet for customers to express their feedback and opinions. It’s just a lot louder and larger than what came before it. It’s not the only source of customer sentiment that companies turn to to gather information and research.

There’s nothing wrong with companies changing their minds or adjusting their product based on customer feedback.

What would be bad is if a vocal minority was forcing a company to make a decision that the company truly believed would make sales worse and/or make the game’s a average reviews/reception worse. Have any gaming company devs or execs come out and admitted that?

The reason why Dead or Alive extreme 3 was not sold here was the fear of this kind of backlash therefore they have lost sales in this regard. Other Japanese developers also thought the same and did not bought several titles to the west. So yes this already did happen.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

The reason why Dead or Alive extreme 3 was not sold here was the fear of this kind of backlash therefore they have lost sales in this regard. Other Japanese developers also thought the same and did not bought several titles to the west. So yes this already did happen.

And how many people might’ve boycotted the company’s other releases here if there was that much outrage over the game, resulting in a net loss? How much would the negative PR had cost them?

What-ifs in situations like this don’t tell us much. There are too many variables. I trust the company has a hell of a lot more data and makes smarter decisions about their business than you or I ever could in terms of maximizing their profits.

You are free to take your business elsewhere, but not free to ransack and loot their stores because some dipshit on twitter told you to be offended.

Correct.

 

[Dunki]

And how many people might’ve boycotted the company’s other releases here if there was that much outrage over the game, resulting in a net loss? How much would the negative PR had cost them?

What-ifs in situations like this don’t tell us much. There are too many variables. I trust the company has a hell of a lot more data and makes smarter decisions about their business than you or I ever could in terms of maximizing their profits.



Correct.

The company feared less sales because of these pressure groups and that is exactly want you wanted to hear. How is this still not enough? These are facts if they have lied or not would be in your corner now to show me evidence for it. Why should I not believe these companies who are way often more honest then big AAA studios? If this is not acceptable for you as evidence. I honestly do not know what else to show you.

 

[PtM]

Such a dismissive phrase. Would you say the same to gay couples who want legislation of gay marriage?

Apples and oranges.

Also violence in video games has nothing to do with feminism or equality, so I don't know how that pushes any agenda aside from her personal taste.

That's a tricky one. Sarkeesian is of the mind that violence is a characteristically male conflict resolution and feminine ones were non-violent.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

The company feared less sales because of these pressure groups and that is exactly want you wanted to hear. How is this still not enough? These are facts if they have lied or not would be in your corner now to show me evidence for it. Why should I not believe these companies who are way often more honest then big AAA studios? If this is not acceptable for you as evidence. I honestly do not know what else to show you.

We’re talking about companies making decisions against their own interests. You haven’t produced any evidence that the company experienced a net loss by their decision to not sell here. I don’t expect us to have access to those internal numbers.

In addition to the possible cost of negative PR I mentioned before, you’re also not factoring in the cost of localizing, distributing and marketing a game in a new territory. It’s not just “free” to release. If the projected sales of the game in that region don’t cover those other costs, they won’t release it.

I’ll try to distill my original point down:

A company has Choice A and Choice B for a game. One data point (among many) they have is a bunch of angry people on Twitter who hate Choice A.

The company runs their financial models and predicts based on that (as well as all other) data, that Choice B will make them the most money.

What’s wrong with this?

 

[Cybrwzrd]

A game that is set during a real-life war, and has you play as characters participating in that war. Yes, that is political. Real-life places and battles are being illustrated here.

If you are going to a Call of Duty game for accurate historical commentary on the politics involved in WW2, then you probably are also going to Transformers for ethical discussion on living mechanical alien-human relations....

 

[InterMusketeer]

Her asking for more games she likes isn't an attack on your games. You're assuming that she wants to cut out the games you like instead of just encouraging more games that she does like. If we subbed out the words "violent" with multiplayer games she'd just be any video game forum poster. Also violence in video games has nothing to do with feminism or equality, so I don't know how that pushes any agenda aside from her personal taste.

Media’s influence is subtle and helps to shape our attitudes, beliefs and values for better and for worse. Media can inspire greatness and challenge the status quo or sadly, more often, it can demoralize and reinforce systems of power and privilege and oppression.

“At least half of the options should be women and, really, it would be great if it was more than half the options were women, and I know some people think I’m completely loony when I say that.”

Nahh, she doesn't have any kind of political agenda she's pushing for in the video game industry. She just doesn't like certain things, calling them gross, problematic, harmful, depressing and troubling, whereas the things she does like can be used to achieve greatness and push forward the medium and society! Just remember to be critical of the more problematic aspects (as she points them out) of the media you love, listen to and believe women, and be aware of the privileges you have as a white male gamer!

 

[TheGraykid]

If you are going to a Call of Duty game for accurate historical commentary on the politics involved in WW2, then you probably are also going to Transformers for ethical discussion on living mechanical alien-human relations....

We're talking about if it is present, it is clearly present. I don't know how the Transformers quips have anything to do with the matter, but hey, at least they sound cool. Transformers isn't about an "ethical discussion on living mechanical alien-human relations", Call of Duty WW2 is clearly about that war, that is the one and only subject of that game.

 

[TheGraykid]

Nahh, she doesn't have any kind of political agenda she's pushing for in the video game industry. She just doesn't like certain things, calling them gross, problematic, harmful, depressing and troubling, whereas the things she does like can be used to achieve greatness and push forward the medium and society! Just remember to be critical of the more problematic aspects (as she points them out) of the media you love, listen to and believe women, and be aware of the privileges you have as a white male gamer!

Please enlighten me. Why is it okay to criticise everything in games except some of their political themes? Why is that the tipping point for you? Why does that now indicate that someone has an agenda(which of course is really bad)? It doesn't appear to be the way she critiques things, because Jim Sterling et al say far worse things about the aspects of games they don't like than calling them "gross, problematic, harmful, depressing and troubling,". Also, saying that "Media can inspire greatness and challenge the status quo" shouldn't be a controversial statement. And none of the things she says closes down your ability to argue back, she isn't running a cult. I'm trying to figure this out. I went to her youtube channel and she gets like 5k max views on most of her videos and they're all TV show reviews. She hasn't posted a video about games in 8-9 months. This is the person who has this huge agenda she's trying to push? You talk about her like she's a leader of gaming feminism.

 

[grumpyGamer]

I believe it does not matter the media or art form, there will always be critics and hate filled people,
I truly believe that smaller company´s might act on people pressure, because they do not have the power to lose revenue in case a boycott like what happened to EA happens.
That being said, what will always matter to them is the end product revenue, they will not fuck up a game and lose money just because Britney from twitter had a rant and cried over nothing.
You can´t really criticize call of duty for not being historical, first and foremost it is made to be fun (or suck you dry of money), and only after that is made to be accurate.
Games and movies are not made to be history lessons.
About that Sarkesian, I truly believe she is a fake and very cunning woman, she does this for the drama and money and fame, She could not care less for the actual problems, hate the woman

 

[Cybrwzrd]

We're talking about if it is present, it is clearly present. I don't know how the Transformers quips have anything to do with the matter, but hey, at least they sound cool. Transformers isn't about an "ethical discussion on living mechanical alien-human relations", Call of Duty WW2 is clearly about that war, that is the one and only subject of that game.

Yes, and we all know the Third Reich raised an undead army and launched a last ditch counteroffensive upon the living.

It's set in WW2, but that doesn't make it political. It is entertainment for the lowest common denominator. So is Transformers. That's my point. It's fun, mindless, forgettable popcorn entertainment. It doesn't exist for anything more than that and that is OK.

 

[NickFire]

Diversity of thought does not inherently give value to shitty thought. After all, people are not entitled to be heard or respected for what they say.

You are on a video game board, and suggesting that calling a game without mechanics crap, is shitty thought that warrants being denied respect or the opportunity to be heard. So um, what exactly is the standard for determining when a game should not be criticized over its game play or lack thereof?

 

[PtM]

About that Sarkesian, I truly believe she is a fake and very cunning woman, she does this for the drama and money and fame, She could not care less for the actual problems,

Good for her.
It's nobody's business what her real motives were.
She didn't deserve any of the shit she got, even if all the accusations were true.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

Good for her.
It's nobody's business what her real motives were.
She didn't deserve any of the shit she got, even if all the accusations were true.

She is an awful person - a true snake oil salesman. But good for her for being successful at it. But if you peddle snake oil, be prepared for unhappy customers.

 

[TheGraykid]

Yes, and we all know the Third Reich raised an undead army and launched a last ditch counteroffensive upon the living.

It's set in WW2, but that doesn't make it political. It is entertainment for the lowest common denominator. So is Transformers. That's my point. It's fun, mindless, forgettable popcorn entertainment. It doesn't exist for anything more than that and that is OK>

Come on, this game does have a campaign.

I'm not saying it isn't consumed in a shallow way by some people, but when your game is all about depicting war and main characters are sent to concentration camps, it's difficult for me to call it not extremely political just like Battlefield 1 is extremely political.

 

[A Link to the Past]

You are on a video game board, and suggesting that calling a game without mechanics crap, is shitty thought that warrants being denied respect or the opportunity to be heard. So um, what exactly is the standard for determining when a game should not be criticized over its game play or lack thereof?

I was not replying over people not liking the mechanics, I was replying over people responding disproportionately to the game and people who were bothered by some of the themes in Gone Home. The fact is, Gone Home's critics are, at least from that corner of the Internet, not simply people who didn't like Gone Home and engaged in civil discourse. Do people exist who unfairly went after a critic of Gone Home? Sure, but mischaracterizing this situation as a polite disagreement is disingenuous.

She is an awful person - a true snake oil salesman. But good for her for being successful at it. But if you peddle snake oil, be prepared for unhappy customers.

But the only people who find her to be a con are people who did not fund her project.

 

[PtM]

She is an awful person - a true snake oil salesman. But good for her for being successful at it. But if you peddle snake oil, be prepared for unhappy customers.

"I want my 20 minutes back"?

 

[TheGraykid]

Yes, and we all know the Third Reich raised an undead army and launched a last ditch counteroffensive upon the living.

It's set in WW2, but that doesn't make it political. It is entertainment for the lowest common denominator. So is Transformers. That's my point. It's fun, mindless, forgettable popcorn entertainment. It doesn't exist for anything more than that and that is OK>

Come on, this game does have a campaign.

I'm not saying it isn't consumed in a shallow way by some people, but when your game is all about depicting war (one of the most traumatic moments of our countries collective memories) and main characters are sent to concentration camps, it's difficult for me to not call it extremely political just like Battlefield 1 is extremely political. Simply depicting war or any other historical event is saying something political by the way you choose to depict it.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

Come on, this game does have a campaign.

I'm not saying it isn't consumed in a shallow way by some people, but when your game is all about depicting war and main characters are sent to concentration camps, it's difficult for me to call it not extremely political just like Battlefield 1 is extremely political.

Battlefield 1 was extremely political?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Also, good rule of thumb:

Apolitical is political.

 

[TheGraykid]

Battlefield 1 was extremely political?

What does political mean to you? Because Battlefield 1 is pretty much all implicit and explicit political messaging about the nature of war and what it does to people.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

What does political mean to you? Because Battlefield 1 is pretty much all implicit and explicit political messaging about the nature of war and what it does to people.

That is political?

After a quick google search it appears that game took serious flack for being a little too inaccurate historically and disrespectful. Black German soldiers? That's political. Then again, it is a war fought 100 years ago, unless they were going for an accurate historical retelling of events then I don't think it's a big deal. WW1 era Europe is almost as much a fantasy world compared to modern Europe as Middle Earth is.

Band of Brothers wasn't a political show either. It told the story of the horrors of war and how it affects people.

Now if they had taken the Band of Brother's cast and made them all black women fighting on the front lines of WW2, that would have been a political statement, because again, it would be completely out of place for what the setting and tone of the story is.

 

[Gold_Loot]

I was going to post this in the Kingdom Come thread, but I didn’t want to throw that thread off the rails but “Worth a Buy” just sent this rant about the director hoopla.


NSFW language BTW.
I’m sure not everyone’s going to agree with him here but man, just the way this guy flies off the handle with that accent, I just thought this was really entertaining. Enjoy.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

With the amount of SJW bashing that is en vogue now on GAF, Quinn must have had a good laugh at the idea of showing up.

Yeah I had a good laugh about that too. Let's all invite Zoe and just have a little Gamergate sit down tea chat.

 

[JordanN]

Was never a gamergater because I found the "us gamers" to be cringe.
That said, the enforced echo chamber on the topic was a bad idea. Everything in life deserves to be debated and held up against facts. If there's a big conspiracy in games journalism and you got proof to back it, it should be allowed. Trying to lock/ban all discussion just pushed people farther to one extreme instead of remaining in the center. I also noticed "gamergator" was used as an insult against anyone with a dissenting opinion.

Again, I got no ties to gamergate and never cared for it. But if I personally believe in letting game developers make the games they want, that shouldn't make me Hitler,Nazi,alt-right,gamergate,trump etc. I actually prefer if all minorities and women formed their own studios and started making games they desire. That's how the free market works.

 

[PtM]

I actually prefer if all minorities and women formed their own studios and started making games they desire. That's how the free market works.

The free market doesn't work with ghetto studios.

 

[A Link to the Past]

The free market also includes people trying to influence current producers to make products for them.

 

[TheGraykid]

That is political?

After a quick google search it appears that game took serious flack for being a little too inaccurate historically and disrespectful. Black German soldiers? That's political. Then again, it is a war fought 100 years ago, unless they were going for an accurate historical retelling of events then I don't think it's a big deal. WW1 era Europe is almost as much a fantasy world compared to modern Europe as Middle Earth is.

Band of Brothers wasn't a political show either. It told the story of the horrors of war and how it affects people.

Now if they had taken the Band of Brother's cast and made them all black women fighting on the front lines of WW2, that would have been a political statement, because again, it would be completely out of place for what the setting and tone of the story is.

It feels like your definition of political seems to solely revolve around social justice or if you feel like something is out of place. Band of Brothers is a hugely political show. Going to war is a political act, Band of Brothers shows the human cost of that political act. That's why it's a political show. That's why all pieces of media that depict war are political.

 

[A Link to the Past]

War, in reality, is something that is highly political. Even if your intention to make a war game was to "avoid politics," the act of depolitizing war is in and of itself a political message.

 

[Reyben]

Indeed, here's a clip of Sargon saying the alt-right is his enemy in a somewhat petty squabble with someone else around 2m20:

lol "someone else", that's metokur with his usual trolling