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[Admiral Woofington]

You guys can say whatever you want, but it's weird to change someone's race like this. It's especially weird when you consider that they seemed to be trying to cast people who looked like older versions of the characters we all know.... like, everyone but Hermione.

Anyway, I'm just glad we have more HP in our lives. Can't wait to see this.

It's weird, yes it is. But at the end of the day they had auditions and she must have knocked it out of the park. To go "she was amazing but her skin doesn't Match Emma" would be weird

With Ron they'll likely dye his hair red, because the Weasleys are described time and time again as gingers, you don't change that aspect.

 

[commish]

It's weird, yes it is. But at the end of the day they had auditions and she must have knocked it out of the park. To go "she was amazing but her skin doesn't Match Emma" would be weird

With Ron they'll likely dye his hair red, because the Weasleys are described time and time again as gingers, you don't change that aspect.

Why can you change Hermione's skin color but not Ron's hair color? Neither have any significance on the actual plot.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Why can you change Hermione's skin color but not Ron's hair color? Neither have any significance on the actual plot.

The argument is she never said Hermione was white in the novels themselves outright.

I never said they are for sure going to turn this Ron ginger, I simply said that the defining feature of the Weasley family is "red hair" so that I'd like they did that since we have ginny in the cast and she's red hair.

 

[Skellig Gra]

It's weird, yes it is. But at the end of the day they had auditions and she must have knocked it out of the park. To go "she was amazing but her skin doesn't Match Emma" would be weird

With Ron they'll likely dye his hair red, because the Weasleys are described time and time again as gingers, you don't change that aspect.

That dudes hair is red and FYI ginger is a slur. Find that ironic that you are using that when we are talking about people being racist.

 

[commish]

The argument is she never said Hermione was white in the novels themselves outright.

I never said they are for sure going to turn this Ron ginger, I simply said that the defining feature of the Weasley family is "red hair" so that I'd like they did that since we have ginny in the cast and she's red hair.

Huh, interesting. Guess I never thought about the race of the characters in the books. I wonder if it's true that most books only mention race when someone isn't white.

 

[HStallion]

You guys can say whatever you want, but it's weird to change someone's race like this. It's especially weird when you consider that they seemed to be trying to cast people who looked like older versions of the characters we all know.... like, everyone but Hermione.

Anyway, I'm just glad we have more HP in our lives. Can't wait to see this.

As I said before in the thread, I've worked in theater for years and changing a characters race or gender is as common as it comes, no one even bats an eye.

 

[Wazzy]

It's a play and it's really not a big deal. I don't mind the casting but one thing is that Rowling needs to stop with this ambiguity bullshit and changing her mind. She already wrote canon a specific way, just leave it as is and try better with your next book. It makes everything an afterthought to the books and things like racial diversity should not be treated that way.

 

[metalslimer]

Seriously plays where races are changed are so common. I also have to wonder where the outrage is coming from considering 99% of you will never see this play

 

[Skellig Gra]

Seriously plays where races are changed are so common. I also have to wonder where the outrage is coming from considering 99% of you will never see this play

I'm guessing a sizeable portion of them think this is a movie.

 

[Booker Dewitt]

It's a play and it's really not a big deal. I don't mind the casting but one thing is that Rowling needs to stop with this ambiguity bullshit and changing her mind. She already wrote canon a specific way, just leave it as is and try better with your next book. It makes everything an afterthought to the books and things like racial diversity should not be treated that way.

She should of just said "Louie did it, it doesn't matter."

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I'm guessing a sizeable portion of them think this is a movie.

I can't believe they got Leonardo DiCaprio as Draco Malfoy!

 

[openrob]

Why is Ron not Ginger and Hermione black?
EDIT: It seems like a wierd choice at best. I'm just gonna back out of the discussion. I hope the outcome is good nonetheless.

He has red hair and ginger is a slur.

This is the first I have ever heard this in my entire life and not sure I beleive you.

 

[LuuKyK]

Why is Ron not Ginger and Hermione black?

Why not?

This is related to the movies in name only. The directors and Rowling literally have free pass to choose whoever they want. The only reference is the books and considering the author herself is directly involved I dont think thats a problem.

 

[a916]

That's just not how the theater works. Did you know the genie is black on the Broadway version of Aladdin?

Like Mr Popo/Jafar? That kind of changes things...

 

[SilentRob]

People who never saw a play in their live, will never see this play and do not understand how plays work are outraged abot a play. More news at 11.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Why is Ron not Ginger and Hermione black?

He has red hair and ginger is a slur.

 

[Plasma]

You mean these book covers?

Official covers for the whole series for adult readers.

Do you realise how many different Harry Potter book covers there are?

These are the original covers anyway and POA and DH show her as white.

Not that it matters anyway for the play I just find the whole excuse of her skin colour never being mentioned is kind of silly she was always clearly supposed to be white. Like other people have said just admit that the best actress got the job and leave it at that there's no need to act all sly and pretend otherwise.

 

[Exterminieren]

Rowling wrote the character, and didn't explicitly write her as white, that one sentence notwithstanding. As such, it's entirely legitimate to cast whatever race they please, even disregarding the theatre's long and storied history of bending race and gender as it sees fit.

I don't think she was "supposed" to be white at all. She's depicted as white and Rowling thought of her as white, but I'd say that's more a reflection of what Rowling thinks of as a neutral character rather than a conscious choice.

 

[CloudyTuba]

I'm guessing a sizeable portion of them think this is a movie.

Putting it in the title would have been smart. Editing OP to put it at the top would also be smart. OP taking any action at all would be nice.

I'm not really a Potter fan but I wandered in here to see what was going on and indeed got very confused by the casting until I saw a comment from someone saying it was a play. Until then I had assumed it was some sort of sequel set in the future, in which case the casting wouldnt make sense since it would be following an existing look. But as a play, great.

 

[PSqueak]

That dude clearly has (faded and aged) red hair. They even died the actor's normally blonde hair for the part.

Please present the passage wherein the books say Hermoine is white.

Spoiler

Because you won't find it.

Just because i like black Hermione, doesn't mean i will give Rowling a pass for being opportunistic about it.

 

[DrForester]

You guys can say whatever you want, but it's weird to change someone's race like this. It's especially weird when you consider that they seemed to be trying to cast people who looked like older versions of the characters we all know.... like, everyone but Hermione.

Anyway, I'm just glad we have more HP in our lives. Can't wait to see this.

It's a play. Even if she was white in the books and films, this is a play. It's going to be performed by dozens of actors all over the world in the next decade. There is no reason to worry about race when casting a play for a character who's race was never a part of her character.

 

[woopWOOP]

The parents look neat. Dad Harry's a boss

Tbh I've never heard of this before so I had some big ???'s seeing black Hermione. Never read the books, never went beyond the third movie, heard tidbits of the ending so I was wondering if I was missing something big from in between, lol.
Think it's a nice, different take from the movies tho.

 

[metalslimer]

Just because i like black Hermione, doesn't mean i will give Rowling a pass for being opportunistic about it.

Opportunistic? Makes it sound like they cast a black actress just to be hip or something.

 

[LuuKyK]

Just because i like black Hermione, doesn't mean i will give Rowling a pass for being opportunistic about it.

Interesting. Never noticed that. Someone should tweet that to her.

I am sure in her head Hermione is white but aside from this line you posted its true that her race was never mentioned.

Edit: And yeah I dont see how this is "opportunistic". Rowling didnt even need to justify this in the first place. People are just too obtuse to understand that there are multiple ways a faction can be interpreted in different medias.

 

[PSqueak]

I don't think she was "supposed" to be white at all. She's depicted as white and Rowling thought of her as white, but I'd say that's more a reflection of what Rowling thinks of as a neutral character rather than a conscious choice.

You do know Rowling admitted Hermione is her self insert, right? Hermione is based on herself as a child, of course she was conscious about her being white.

Opportunistic? Makes it sound like they cast a black actress just to be hip or something.

No, the casting was not made to be hip, that's not why its oportunistic, because...

Edit: And yeah I dont see how this is "opportunistic". Rowling didnt even need to justify this in the first place. People are just too obtuse to understand that there are multiple ways a faction can be interpreted in different medias.

...Exactly this, there is no need to justify that Hermione is being portrayed by a black actress, the race of the character does not matter, you don't have to justify a black actress being casted as hermione, just like they're not justifying a non ginger as ron.

The tweet is opportunistic because Rowling is bending backwards in a mental gymnastic routine to make it so it looks "look people! i was progressive all alone, hermione is totally race ambigous!", it's an insincere statement, why couldn't she just go "Yeah, i love the casting for Hermione, i think she'll do an amazing job" instead of try to bullshit her way around?

 

[Kimaka]

Just because i like black Hermione, doesn't mean i will give Rowling a pass for being opportunistic about it.

It is more likely that she didn't remember one line of text out of the thousands of words that she has written. It isn't uncommon for authors to forget small details of characters that don't matter. Hermione's bushy hair and buck teeth are more important traits than her skin color.

 

[LuuKyK]

You do know Rowling admitted Hermione is her self insert, right? Hermione is based on herself as a child, of course she was conscious about her being white.

And how does that makes the casting of a black Hermione wrong?

 

[HStallion]

It is more likely that she didn't remember one line of text out of the thousands of words that she has written. It isn't uncommon for authors to forget small details of characters that don't matter. Hermione's bushy hair and buck teeth are more important traits than her skin color.

Any of the writers on Star Trek are veterans at this when it comes to Trekkies picking apart the techno mumbo jumbo they made up to justify things like its a hard science.

 

[PSqueak]

And how does that makes the casting of a black Hermione wrong?

It doesn't.

Have you read what i said?

Im not arguing the casting, im arguing the tweet she made.

It is more likely that she didn't remember one line of text out of the thousands of words that she has written. It isn't uncommon for authors to forget small details of characters that don't matter. Hermione's bushy hair and buck teeth are more important traits than her skin color.

Precisesly, which is why she shouldn't be trying to justify the casting and just let it be.

 

[HStallion]

You do know Rowling admitted Hermione is her self insert, right? Hermione is based on herself as a child, of course she was conscious about her being white.

She's also the author and can dictate what she wants with the series which is why I find this foolish. If George RR Martin wants to suddenly declare Westeros blacker than Africa he's got the right to do this. Not saying you can't call him out on it but I also find it weird that people are so hung up on it. She can stay white in your mind and your head cannon will not be affected by a stage play. This feels like the people who act like a newer lesser work in a series they love somehow degrades everything before it, especially something as detached from the main series of HP books as this play.

 

[LuuKyK]

It doesn't.

Have you read what i said?

Im not arguing the casting, im arguing the tweet she made.

You edited your post. I get what you mean.

 

[commish]

Seriously plays where races are changed are so common. I also have to wonder where the outrage is coming from considering 99% of you will never see this play

Not sure if there is actual outrage or not, but I don't think you can categorize this as just any play. I just hope this woman got the role because she was the best choice and not because JK wanted to make a statement (like she did when she revealed that DD was gay - just seemed so random and out of nowhere).

You might be right on the 99% part. I'm hoping they release it on video or something, or bring it to NYC.

 

[PSqueak]

You edited your post. I get what you mean.

yeah, people are posting faster than me and i don't like several posts of mine to be one after the other, so i often edit my latest post to add replies to things posted while i wrote.

She's also the author and can dictate what she wants with the series which is why I find this foolish. If George RR Martin wants to suddenly declare Westeros blacker than Africa he's got the right to do this. Not saying you can't call him out on it but I also find it weird that people are so hung up on it. She can stay white in your mind and your head cannon will not be affected by a stage play. This feels like the people who act like a newer lesser work in a series they love somehow degrades everything before it, especially something as detached from the main series of HP books as this play.

I think the difference here is the context in which rowling is making the claim, if we took your example of George RR Martin doing so, well, im pretty sure many people would be hilariously rustled, but you know, it would be something that happened because he wanted, here Rowling is riding on the tails of the play, if a black actress hadn't being casted, you can bet she would never had posted that tweet, in contrast, if she had made the comment out of the blue in pottermore or something, it would be more like "oh, that's neat!"

 

[Admiral Woofington]

He has red hair and ginger is a slur.

Since when is the term "ginger" a slur? This is entirely news to me.

 

[Shig]

Seriously plays where races are changed are so common. I also have to wonder where the outrage is coming from considering 99% of you will never see this play

I saw a production of Sweeney Todd with a black lead recently. It was pretty great.

I thought it was a tad awkward that the first song in the play (Attend the tale of Sweeney Todd/ His skin was pale and his eyes were odd) wasn't tweaked a bit given the casting, though. Literally all they'd have to do is change 'pale' to 'dark,' though that does mess up a portion of the rhyme.

Seems weird to be progressive enough to cast an unconventional lead for the part, but still so moored to convention that you'd leave alone a lyric that plainly contradicts that casting.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Hermoine being black makes me uncomfortable. I read the books as a kid and in my head I imagined her as white, then the movies came out and she was white in those too! But now whenever I think of Hermoine, I dont think of the buck toothed bad hair white girl from the books or the gorgeous perfect teeth Emma Watson, I'm forced to think of this black woman. I dont want a black woman in my head!

How hard is it for a play I'll probably never see to keep continuity with an unrelated movie series as well my head pictures?

And before anyone plays the race card, I would have a problem with whitewashing in a movie adaption too. Because movies and plays are the same thing with the same history of race issues.

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Lavender_Brown

I definitely had a problem with this. Don't play the race card!

What does he mean by this?

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Oh, it's a play. Carry on then.

Yeah, this needs to be taken into account. Drama allows anyone to play a role, as it should. A movie continuation would be more jarring.

 

[HStallion]

I think the difference here is the context in which rowling is making the claim, if we took your example of George RR Martin doing so, well, im pretty sure many people would be hilariously rustled, but you know, it would be something that happened because he wanted, here Rowling is riding on the tails of the play, if a black actress hadn't being casted, you can bet she would never had posted that tweet, in contrast, if she had made the comment out of the blue in pottermore or something, it would be more like "oh, that's neat!"

That's why I'm a bit baffled because I don't really see what the deal is with one tweet. Like how does that tweet effect whether the play is good, the actress is decent at her job and all this other stuff. It just feels like people picking out the one issue they can find to harp on the whole affair and I'm not saying you are doing that but I've heard a lot of people use that tweet as if its ammunition or pull out that picture of the page with mention of her face being white as if its really all that important to the stories, let alone to this stage play several years after the fact and in an entirely different medium.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Certain version of the original book also describe her mother as being very fair skinned. Now she could be mixed race but that along side the drawings by JK herself the white fact part of PoA, The pottermore images of her as white and the casting of Emma all add weight to the fact JK wrote her as a white skinned character and is now back peddling.

That's the worst part about this. JK is trying to fob people off by saying "she was never said to be white"

While no full character description is given it's infered and substantiated multiple times.

And just to get something straight, I don't like Race or Gender bending when it's done to fit a quota or is a detriment to the story, or because a modern agenda mandates it. However I don't believe for a second that is what has happened here. I think Noma was the best actor for the role and so she was cast. Simple as that. Theather always plays fast and loose with Gender and Race, Shakespear has been played by thousands of varied actors and that is really cool. It's nice that a medium can adapt like that.

I have a problem with JK backtracking and making people caught off guard or people unhappy with a black actor seem like bad people when it was clear from the first time the character was introduced she was intended to be white and so people build up expectations and mental images. I know two huge potter heads who have opening tickets for both parts of the play and the expectation was that it was going to a continuation of at least the movie universe. A black actor makes the comparisons jarring and hard to make now.

It's not like they recast Emma as a black actor in movie but it comes somewhat close.

I'm sure Noma is a fine actor and I expect her to do very well and The Cursed child to do very well but it seems as if JK will be inclined to make Hermione black in future material and that's kind of disapointing because she very evidently was not intended that way.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Since when is the term "ginger" a slur? This is entirely news to me.

It's always been one. Can you give me one example of it being used positively?

 

[PSqueak]

That's why I'm a bit baffled because I don't really see what the deal is with one tweet. Like how does that tweet effect whether the play is good, the actress is decent at her job and all this other stuff. It just feels like people picking out the one issue they can find to harp on the whole affair and I'm not saying you are doing that but I've heard a lot of people use that tweet as if its ammunition or pull out that picture of the page with mention of her face being white as if its really all that important to the stories, let alone to this stage play several years after the fact and in an entirely different medium.

It doesn't affect the play, to me the whole tweet debate is not about the race of the actress, but Rowling trying to play it as if it was her intention all along, seems insincere to me.

It's always been one. Can you give me one example of it being used positively?

I recall an interview with Rupert Grint (Ron's actor in the movies) back when he was a kid, they asked him how he was known around the set with the other cast and crew and he just said "they nick named me Ginger" as if it was nothing, surely if it was a slur his parents or his fellow actors portraying weaslys would have objected to it. There was also that nicktoon with the Ginger girl who was straight up named Ginger, would they have gotten away with it if it was a slur?

But don't take my word for it, since Ginger is not a word that exists in my native tonge, so i can't picture it being used as a slur.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

It's always been one. Can you give me one example of it being used positively?

Ginger biscuits are awesome.

 

[Inferno313]

It doesn't affect the play, to me the whole tweet debate is not about the race of the actress, but Rowling trying to play it as if it was her intention all along, seems insincere to me.

I don't read that tweet as her saying it was her intention all along, I think it's pretty clear that it was not. I think what she's saying in that tweet is that there's no reason for her to not be black.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

It's always been one. Can you give me one example of it being used positively?

When a person describes themselves as such? When it's a spice, and used specifically for light red/brown color description? I don't know what to tell you. If it's agreed upon as being offensive then I'll take the loss and I apologize for offending as I genuinely wasnt aware that it was considered one, but I can't even find it as a derogatory term in a dictionary definition.

I always saw it as the term albino, a description of a variant of skin condition/hair combination and others.

 

[HStallion]

It doesn't affect the play, to me the whole tweet debate is not about the race of the actress, but Rowling trying to play it as if it was her intention all along, seems insincere to me.

Then I'll drop it then as that seems more about Rowling saying some inconsistent stuff but even I don't see what the big deal is necessarily.

 

[Artanisix]

Seriously plays where races are changed are so common. I also have to wonder where the outrage is coming from considering 99% of you will never see this play

+1 this is VERY normal for plays guys

 

[Majmun]

Just because i like black Hermione, doesn't mean i will give Rowling a pass for being opportunistic about it.

Some people think Beyoncé is white as well!!

 

[ishibear]

Seriously plays where races are changed are so common. I also have to wonder where the outrage is coming from considering 99% of you will never see this play

It is very common.

A Dr. Faustus play I saw recently had a cast that was pretty diverse - something many might try to argue with because it's supposed to take place in Germany.

 

[PSqueak]

Then I'll drop it then as that seems more about Rowling saying some inconsistent stuff but even I don't see what the big deal is necessarily.

I guess it's just a personal pet peeve for me cause, like others have pointed out, if she really meant it she should have actually put it on the book instead of pussyfooting around the issue, like Dumbledore being gay, like she could have put that in the book with minimal effort and it wouldn't have affected anything (there was even a whole chapter going through his biography in the later books, that's a missed opportunity to have mentioned, it sure as fuck would be something expected to be touched on a biography!), she just chickened out and conveniently revealed it when sales wouldn't be affected, i mean come on, one gotta commit to their vision and representation 100%!!

Some people think Beyoncé is white as well!!

Sad thing: I have seen people legitimately, unironically and 100% in all seirousness say she is "not black anymore" because of her current look, as in, if her race could be revoked by a general consensus.

 

[Skellig Gra]

When a person describes themselves as such? When it's a spice, and used specifically for light red/brown color description? I don't know what to tell you. If it's agreed upon as being offensive then I'll take the loss and I apologize for offending as I genuinely wasnt aware that it was considered one, but I can't even find it as a derogatory term in a dictionary definition.

I always saw it as the term albino, a description of a variant of skin condition/hair combination and others.

I'm sure you meant nothing by it. Are you aware that "gingers" are almost universally bullied as kids? As to your second point, how do you think it's defined? Is Rupert Grint a ginger? He doesn't really have freckles.