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[The Kree]

Good intentions maybe, but it's still pathetic they couldn't come up with a nuanced, middle-aged Asian women character. Maybe if they had an Asian writer... *eyeroll*

It's incredibly pathetic.

We can't figure out how to not write racial caricatures so we just make them white.

Dumbasses don't realize that that doesn't qualify as a better idea.

I'm sure Tilda is great in this because she usually is, but the excuses will never not be lame.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

You son of a

 

[Moonkid]

It's incredibly pathetic.

We can't figure out how to not write racial caricatures so we just make them white.

Dumbasses don't realize that that doesn't qualify as a better idea.

I'm sure Tilda is great in this because she usually is, but the excuses will never not be lame.

If I remember correctly as well, Marvel didn't want to hire someone Tibetan for The Ancient One in case they pissed off China which is also a pathetic, spineless reason.

Not to mention under their line of thinking, Benedict Wong's role should have been whitewashed too but hey, they found a way to not make his character a stereotype through discussing the character with him. They couldn't do the same for The Ancient One it seems for a combination of reasons.

 

[AMUSIX]

I was apprehensive after the way they handled the casting, but after the director's latest remarks I can't support Marvel with this movie.

So you think they should have gone with the 'wise old Asian' stereotype that the Ancient One is designed from? Because this look would have been just fine...after all, would mean an Asian actor...

Asians are grossly underrepresented in film, but this wouldn't have been a good look either way. There's no way they could have gone with the above look, so they considered going with an Asian female, but that ended up coming off too close to another racist stereotype.

So they chose to go with a woman...who, by the way, also often get shafted in Hollywood (though not nearly to the extent of many other groups).


This isn't like it was a great Asian role being whitewashed...this was the case of the filmmakers trying to step away from a character's rather racist undertones.

Then again, I suppose they could have just gone in another direction, and noone would have been upset, right?

 

[WaffleTaco]

Actually Gunn has said GOTG2 will be self-contained too.

Yay I'm excited then!

So basically, you don't judge the movies on their own basis. The fact that that they're set in a universe of other characters is enough for you to dislike them.
Silly and dumb, but go ahead and do you.

The fuck kind of half assed logic is this

Think of it like this...if I like the movie, would I not want to see the sequel? The problem will be is that his next movie is going to be a MCU movie likely right? I don't like the MCU, I don't want to see movies about them, and I think they are a poor example of how a movie franchise should exist.

 

[The Kree]

So you think they should have gone with the 'wise old Asian' stereotype that the Ancient One is designed from? Because this look would have been just fine...after all, would mean an Asian actor...

Asians are grossly underrepresented in film, but this wouldn't have been a good look either way. There's no way they could have gone with the above look, so they considered going with an Asian female, but that ended up coming off too close to another racist stereotype.

So they chose to go with a woman...who, by the way, also often get shafted in Hollywood (though not nearly to the extent of many other groups).


This isn't like it was a great Asian role being whitewashed...this was the case of the filmmakers trying to step away from a character's rather racist undertones.

Then again, I suppose they could have just gone in another direction, and noone would have been upset, right?

Because that's the only option.

I always thought sci-fi and fantasy were supposed to inspire the imagination, yet I keep reading excuses for how things can't work in a medium that prides itself on making the impossible possible. Sure, we can make people cast spells and run on walls, but we can't find a way to write an Asian character without offending anyone with stereotypes.

FOH

 

[Moonkid]

So you think they should have gone with the 'wise old Asian' stereotype that the Ancient One is designed from? Because this look would have been just fine...after all, would mean an Asian actor...

Asians are grossly underrepresented in film, but this wouldn't have been a good look either way. There's no way they could have gone with the above look, so they considered going with an Asian female, but that ended up coming off too close to another racist stereotype.

So they chose to go with a woman...who, by the way, also often get shafted in Hollywood (though not nearly to the extent of many other groups).


This isn't like it was a great Asian role being whitewashed...this was the case of the filmmakers trying to step away from a character's rather racist undertones.

Then again, I suppose they could have just gone in another direction, and noone would have been upset, right?

Benedict Wong's character arguably fits the problematic mould they're trying to avoid so that doesn't cut it. As it is, however, they did some rewriting by collaborating with him to avoid such a situation. Maybe it's still a little problematic, but the point is why didn't they do the same with The Ancient One? They seem to be fine with Benedict's character after all. They've shown they have the capacity to do it right so your reasons don't hold up.

 

[guek]

Speaking as an asian male that is always hankering for more asian representation in media, I'm oddly nonplussed over the whitewashing of the Ancient One.

Yeah, Derrickson's excuse is BS but I think I'm just too intrigued by the fact that it's Tilda Swinton in the role. Practically anyone else and I likely would have cringed but Swinton is such a fine actor and has such a distinct androgynous look in this film that I can't help but want to see more. So maybe I'm selling out on my progressive sensibilities for more white people in a role that should have gone to someone who is asian but I'm ok with it. *shrugs*

 

[m0dus]

Good intentions maybe, but it's still pathetic they couldn't come up with a nuanced, middle-aged Asian women character. Maybe if they had an Asian writer... *eyeroll*

There is nothing remotely racist or evasive in the statement you quoted - yet for that reason you're boycotting this movie?

Uh-huh.

While I agree asians are underrepresented and misrepresented in Hollywood and television across the board, I don't know if Tilda Swinton's character (a traditionally stereotypical role) is the hill I'd die on here.

 

[guek]

I can't be the only one who would have loved to see Wai Ching Ho as the Ancient One had she not already been cast as Madame Gao

 

[Moonkid]

There is nothing remotely racist or evasive in the statement you quoted - yet for that reason you're boycotting this movie?

Uh-huh.

Literally two posts above I state that I'm probably going to watch the movie. To further clarify, I think I definitely will.

 

[AMUSIX]

Because that's the only option.

I always thought sci-fi and fantasy were supposed to inspire the imagination, yet I keep reading excuses for how things can't work in a medium that prides itself on making the impossible possible. Sure, we can make people cast spells and run on walls, but we can't find a way to write an Asian character without offending anyone with stereotypes.

FOH

No, it's not the only option, but it's clear they attempted different solutions and weren't happy with them. Now, a few more passes on the script might have fixed that, or maybe it would have been fixed once it was cast/filmed, but either of those costs time and money which they may or may not have had.

Now, it's purely possible that Marvel as a company is racist as fuck and just wouldn't cast an Asian in the role. But there have been a number of instances of casting in the MCU that suggest otherwise.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Its after two additional reviews already at 6.9 average

 

[Ashhong]

Speaking as an asian male that is always hankering for more asian representation in media, I'm oddly nonplussed over the whitewashing of the Ancient One.

Yeah, Derrickson's excuse is BS but I think I'm just too intrigued by the fact that it's Tilda Swinton in the role. Practically anyone else and I likely would have cringed but Swinton is such a fine actor and has such a distinct androgynous look in this film that I can't help but want to see more. So maybe I'm selling out on my progressive sensibilities for more white people in a role that should have gone to someone who is asian but I'm ok with it. *shrugs*

You bring dishonor to us Asians!

 

[guek]

You bring dishonor to us Asians!

 

[LionPride]

Yay I'm excited then!



Think of it like this...if I like the movie, would I not want to see the sequel? The problem will be is that his next movie is going to be a MCU movie likely right? I don't like the MCU, I don't want to see movies about them, and I think they are a poor example of how a movie franchise should exist.

The thing everything is copying because of its success not only financially, but also critically is a poor example? Sure okay

 

[enzo_gt]

Like m0dus, I feel like The Ancient One in Dr. Strange is pretty much the worst hill to die on when arguing for greater representation of the underrepresented in film.

In a movie which allegedly has the most diverse cast of any MCU film, including a race swapped Mordo (dunno if his race is ever disclosed in the comics, but the tones his skin does take are not really black), and a Wong that has been transformed from a servile sidekick to a "drill sgt" and teacher. Not sure how true it is now that the movie is on the horizon but apparently there were supposed to be many more nonwhite supporting characters as well?

And, an androgynous, raceless, ageless being that is supposed to be one of the most knowledgeable figures in the universe.. That is played by a woman. Derrickson/Cargill wanted an ambiguous, particularly androgynous figure to replace a pretty stock East Asian stereotype, and I don't really see anything wrong with that inherently. I don't think gender swapping cancels out whitewashing (or that it works like that), but I also think it's far from erasure when Wong has been uprooted and given a much more powerful role, and simultaneously does a disservice if we choose to tear down instead of celebrate another underrepresented group for getting a W that another underrepresented group wants as well. Kind of the exact mentality that keeps underrepresented groups underrepresented, when they are made to compete against each other.

It might sound and be shortsighted, but celebrating the Ws more than piling on the Ls in response is probably more effective in actually enacting change from the fans. Can't see my minority getting any exposure if any time an opportunity crops up there's only negative feedback and studios want to stop taking "risks" altogether.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Marvel stays winning. I swear Feige made a deal with Satan...

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Marvel stays winning. I swear Feige made a deal with Satan...

Do we know if Feige is divorced?

 

[- J - D -]

I had no idea that the simple airing of casting frustrations is now synonymous with choosing a hill to die on.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Its after two additional reviews already at 6.9 average

Nice.

 

[The Kree]

I had no idea that the simple airing of casting frustrations is now synonymous with choosing a hill to die on.

This is the internet. Either you're completely apathetic or burning with furious anger.

 

[- J - D -]

This is the internet. Either you're completely apathetic or burning with furious anger.

Ah. But I'd leave room for middle ground cynicism. The "I agree that _____ are underrepresented in ______, but _____..." type.

Something I always note about those posts is that they they seem to sympathize, but...

 

[enzo_gt]

Ah. But I'd leave room for middle ground cynicism. The "I agree that _____ are underrepresented in ______, but _____..." type.

Something I always note about those posts is that they they seem to sympathize, but...

But?

 

[- J - D -]

But?

I dunno. But... whatever you'd like. usually it precedes telling someone that whatever hill they choose to make their stance isn't currently the right one because reasons. Sometimes it's just okay to let people vent and not inject a but after you half-heartedly affirm that their frustrations are indeed correct.

 

[SFenton]

If I remember correctly as well, Marvel didn't want to hire someone Tibetan for The Ancient One in case they pissed off China which is also a pathetic, spineless reason.

Not to mention under their line of thinking, Benedict Wong's role should have been whitewashed too but hey, they found a way to not make his character a stereotype through discussing the character with him. They couldn't do the same for The Ancient One it seems for a combination of reasons.

Tell Marvel to forfeit the Chinese market. Does that really sound spineless?

You'd so easily lose out on hundreds of millions of dollars?

Politics are very delicate. What if Marvel puts out one film that pisses China off? Then what of the next five they put out, regardless of if they're related to Strange at all? What if China says no? What if that costs them billions, in a hugely emerging film market?

EDIT: I understand the enthusiasm for casting a Tibet actor or actress but the reality is that this just isn't going to work economically in Marvel's favor, and at the end of the day, they're a business.

 

[AMUSIX]

Ah. But I'd leave room for middle ground cynicism. The "I agree that _____ are underrepresented in ______, but _____..." type.

Something I always note about those posts is that they they seem to sympathize, but...

Often they're posts that don't approach everything as black or white. Someone can sympathize and also hold a slightly different view. Without a concession for nuance, you end up with a 'for us or against us' mentality, which is rarely a good thing.

 

[agentofatlas]

Ah. But I'd leave room for middle ground cynicism. The "I agree that _____ are underrepresented in ______, but _____..." type.

Something I always note about those posts is that they they seem to sympathize, but...

You know I have noticed that type of post usually come up when it comes to Asian roles topics.

 

[CaviarMeths]

I had no idea that the simple airing of casting frustrations is now synonymous with choosing a hill to die on.

When the debate has been going on for months with no new information or perspectives and really nobody has changed their opinion on the topic, then yes, it fits the mold of dying on a hill quite nicely. Everyone involved in the conversation just keeps going over the same talking points.

 

[- J - D -]

Often they're posts that don't approach everything as black or white. Someone can sympathize and also hold a slightly different view. Without a concession for nuance, you end up with a 'for us or against us' mentality, which is rarely a good thing.

Nuance? Like suggesting that casting an Asian in this role would've simply resulted in a stereotype?

If you want nuance, you're not going to find it in arguments containing the phrase "not the hill to die on". Outside of situations wherein someone takes notably aggressive or offensive positions on any given topic, it falsely instills a tone of overblown finality into whatever that particular dissenting argument is, even if that dissenting opinion wasn't anywhere near that dramatic.

Share your perspective, disagree, whatever. But don't tell people immediately after you sympathize that now isn't the right time to feel what they feel. If you recognize that even a modicum of how they feel is generally true, and no one is being harmed but for perhaps a monolithic enterprise, then just let them vent.

When the debate has been going on for months with no new information or perspectives and really nobody has changed their opinion on the topic, then yes, it fits the mold of dying on a hill quite nicely. Everyone involved in the conversation just keeps going over the same talking points.

I guess in that regard we all share one hill or another.

 

[y2dvd]

People dissing SM2 reminds me that opinions can be wrong!

 

[cyberheater]

You guys can spoil anything. SMH.

 

[Sblargh]

Nevermind.
Wikipedia tells me that Mordo is from Transylvania.

 

[sammex]

Another fresh review added. Up to 17 and 100% still.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

How long until Civil War went under 100%?

 

[Theecliff]

should i try and watch this in 3d? i haven't seen a 3d film in the cinemas since 2010 but this film seems like it could be pretty cool to watch it in

 

[BLACKLAC]

should i try and watch this in 3d? i haven't seen a 3d film in the cinemas since 2010 but this film seems like it could be pretty cool to watch it in

All signs point to yes. IMAX 3d if you can.

 

[zoukka]

Was it even filmed in 3D?

 

[S1kkZ]

Was it even filmed in 3D?

some scenes were filmed in imax, not sure about 3d. but the impression from the 15 minute preview were very positive, including the 3d effect.

 

[neorej]

Was it even filmed in 3D?

Is any Marvel movie?

 

[Blader]

Yeah, I'm curious about 3D/IMAX 3D impressions because this may be the first time I spring for that in a Marvel movie.

 

[neorej]

Yeah, I'm curious about 3D/IMAX 3D impressions because this may be the first time I spring for that in a Marvel movie.

Their 3D conversions are fine.

 

[flkraven]

So how many more paid-shill Marvel reviews until we start getting the real ones?

 

[sammex]

Another fresh review added. Up to 17 and 100% still.

18 and average up to 6.9 now.

So how many more paid-shill Marvel reviews until we start getting the real ones?

My guess is first rotten at 26.

 

[#1 defender]

My guess is first rotten at 26.

 

[guek]

First rotten up at 20 and you were right!

The visuals are worth the price of admission, but this is as generic and by-the-numbers an origin story as the MCU has ever made. It's better than 'Green Lantern,' but it will remind you of 'Green Lantern'.

Thanos has nothing on this guy

 

[LifEndz]

Great reviews. Marvel continues to put out enjoyable movies.

 

[Kalentan]

First rotten up at 20 and you were right!



Thanos has nothing on this guy

The true villain of the MCU. He's been there from the beginning and none of us knew- no one could have prepared.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Their 3D conversions are fine.

Yeah "fine" but usually not worth it. I thought GOTG and Ant-Man were pretty good 3D movies, and they seem to be putting more effort than usual into this one, or at least seem to be pushing it as the superior way to view the movie.

 

[#1 defender]

First rotten up at 20 and you were right!

Oh, i wasn't guessing, the picture was meant to infer that the first negative review has arrived.

Anyway, looking forward to seing this next week.