CamHostage
Member
I'm trying to understand what would be considered an "RPG" these days, and looking at this explainer video, I think that Sony should not make one....
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Do you believe Sony will try and secure or develop a major WRPG game this generation?
- Thread starter remember_spinal
- Start date
- Opinion
CamHostage
Member
Drakan was one of their entries from Western developers in that field (also Champions of Everquest + Untold Legends, but those were by SOE, not SCE. And then the Neopets games were sometimes RPGish, but probably aren't worth counting.) That was all a long time ago.
Once you get out of the dungeons+dragons setting and the skilltree setup familiar to RPGs, (or rather, once every other game genre pillages qualities from RPGs so thoroughly that the term "RPG" has lost its meaning,) then it's a little tougher to pin down what would qualify as Sony trying to make a "major WRPG". Supposedly the XDEV/People Can Fly sci-fi project leaked a few months back is labeled an "RPG", so there's that...
Yes, they are not.
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Robb
Gold Member
FireFistAce
Member
I don’t think Sony has the capability to do that.
Wildebeest
Member
CDPR seem a bit of a liability in terms of company culture. Maybe Larian if they can clear the floor after BG3. Western RPGs are a bit oil and water when it comes to AAA console releases. You can want your RPG experience and a AAA console experience, but they don't mix together easily. Basically, console WRPGs are mayonnaise, a big sandwich full of nothing but thick layers of mayonnaise.
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ZehDon
Banned
After Sony threw a tantrum because CDPR dared to offer refunds for Cyberpunk 2077, which highlighted Sony's atrocious refund policy and system, I doubt that'll go very far. You don't pull someone else's game to hide your own shitty policies and expect to keep good relations with them.
Sony's issue is that they basically went all in on the cinematic third person action-adventure game, and cancelled everything that wasn't that or GT. They're now trying to transition their studios into the GaaS model and overpaid for Bungie's expertise in that field to make it happen. WRPGs don't fit that model, so, frankly, I don't think Sony gives a shit about them right now.
RedC
Member
CamHostage
Member
https://www.giantbomb.com/sony-interactive-entertainment-america/3010-313/published/
MLB The Show, GT7, R&C Rift Apart, Returnal, Destruction All-Stars, Sackboy: The Big Adventure, Astro's Playroom...
Be careful assuming we can determine what's going on at a company from recent history alone (and a selective memory of it at that.) Of Sony's 12 PS5 games (removing the repacks/remasters aside from TLoU1, and including only 1 MLB release,) 7 games would probably not really be included in that cinematic character-action blueprint Sony is considered to be all about. Cinematic hero-action games are a big part of the Sony formula/identity, but they've got more tricks in the bag. (Plus, there's a lot of variety even in those hero games. God of War and Ghost of Tsushima and Uncharted and Spider-Man share some DNA, but they are absolutely not the same games... though it is still weird that Sony tried to launch a second dark-apocalypse zombie franchise on top of its previous dark-apocalypse zombie franchise and expect nobody would draw comparisons.)
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remember_spinal
Banned
CDPR’S games aren’t that far off from what sony does tbh, they’re all still high cinematic action games
You cant say sony only wants to do one type of games while they’re spending money on making other types of games. Lightfall is officially a Sony game
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Mibu no ookami
Member
Think you're misremembering. CDPR didn't offer refunds, they said to ask Sony for a refund.
As for CDPR feeling wronged
CD Projekt says it has ‘friendly relations’ with Sony following Cyberpunk 2077’s PlayStation Store removal | VGC
Company is attempting to get the game back on Sony’s digital marketplace…
www.videogameschronicle.com
Also that just isn't true.
Dreams
MLB The Show
Astrobot
Sackboy
Suggest otherwise, but let's ignore these.
Adopting more GaaS doesn't mean you're transitioning to them. What a crock of shit... You really enjoy creating your own narrative despite the facts huh?
I thought Horizon was there wrpg?
owandeseis
Member
Honestly the only developer from that list i could see trying to create an RPG is Insomniac, but right now they are busy with both Marvel games, it would be really surprising to see them moving to try RPG's seeing how succesful they are.
Much safer bets would be ND, GG, Bend Studios, Sucker Punch or Santa Monica specially, i think next showcase will tell us a bit about the route they are going for. I see them staying with the cinematic 3rd party action adventure games at the same time they start betting on multiplayer games.
They already got KOTOR, if they see a chance, they'll get something else, but i don't think they see that genre as a priority that they have to fill no matter what
ZehDon
Banned
Might be worth brushing up on what went down. CDPR offered the refunds, pledging to handle it themselves if gamers had issues with Sony or Microsoft's automated systems or retailers.
You expect CDPR would publicly spit on the largest video platform holder in the world? What would be gained from this? See, the context of my post is reliant on your post, which you've ignored: CDPR won't be doing any special deals with Sony to cover Sony's lack of WRPGs given Sony single unilaterally decided to financially impact the studio to cover their own ass. Why would they? Microsoft has been a great partner for CDPR, so I'd imagine that relationship would continue, doubly so given Sony's blunder.
One of those is a multiplatform licensed sports game, and the other three are small scale titles. Over the course of the PS4 generation, Sony's AAA developers migrated off anything that wasn't tangentially related to their uber-successful cinematic third person action-adventure games or GT. Sony now relies on its third party partners to cover its other bases. There's certainaly logic in that approach - it lets studios focus on what they're good at.
In order to use its traditionally single player studio support systems to produce and maintain its desired 10 GaaS titles before the end of this generation, Sony will have to transition a solid chunk of its infrastructure to this task. There's a massive difference between supporting studios producing polished mo-cap cutscenes, and supporting studios making Sony's 10 GaaS titles. They paid four billion and change for Bungie for a reason: that transition is going to be hard, and they need the guidance on how to do it. This process of change is called a transition because it's not a cut and dry process. Maybe read and understand before dialing up the defiance force stuff, hey?
remember_spinal
Banned
OceanGaming
Member
I miss DrakanDrakan was one of their entries from Western developers in that field (also Champions of Everquest + Untold Legends, but those were by SOE, not SCE. And then the Neopets games were sometimes RPGish, but probably aren't worth counting.) That was all a long time ago.
ZehDon
Banned
Correct, the multiplatform licensed sports game from Sony is developed by Sony's studios.Developed by sony studios
Mibu no ookami
Member
They absolutely directed people to Sony initially, which overwhelmed their customer support lines and later backtracked on this.
CDPR Is No Longer Telling PlayStation Owners To Ask Sony For Cyberpunk 2077 Refunds
CD Projekt has walked back statements telling PS4 and PS5 users to refund Cyberpunk 2077, instead asking Sony users to wait for fixes.
www.kotaku.com.au
So in other words public statements don't match your narrative so you decide the public statements aren't valid. Got it.
You see how you keep discounting games that don't fit your narrative?
Gran Turismo doesn't fit your narrative, so you said it was the exception. MLB the show is a high selling game, but it's multiplatform (by decision of MLB) so somehow it doesn't fit your narrative. Dreams was an award winning game, but it didn't have a huge budget, so it doesn't fit your narrative. Sony also made Killzone Shadow Fall, but I'm sure that doesn't fit your narrative. SingStar doesn't fit your narrative. Does the Last Guardian or Detroit Become Human fit your narrative? Does Bloodborne?
Pretty much every game is a 3rd person action/adventure game. You narrative is so self fulfilling that you'll continue to make excuses as to why games don't fit.
Sony isn't transitioning to GaaS, they are including them in their portfolio. Jim Ryan has already said the company isn't going to forget its strengths.
Accelerating their GaaS roadmap, doesn't mean a transition from doing what they're good at
Bungie Acquisition Will “Considerably Accelerate” Sony’s “Aggressive Road Map with Live Services” – Jim Ryan
PlayStation CEO Jim Ryan says the company has ambitious plans with live service games, which will receive a boost with the Bungie acquisition.
Nearly half of their rumored live service games are coming from new studios or external studios.
{insert code here}
Member
If there was ever a time to buy-in on CDPR, now is it. Their valuation is at its lowest level in 6 years and once they release the Cyberpunk DLC and showoff Witcher 4 it'll go back to the highs.
remember_spinal
Banned
Yep, the window is shrinking, too bad sony talked themselves into a corner whining about Activision
Would look ridiculous for them to go to such lengths to stop this merger only to buy a huge rpg studio
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ZehDon
Banned
No, I'm detailing the events correctly. Again, you claimed: "CDPR didn't offer refunds, they said to ask Sony for a refund". Which is wrong - they directed everyone to request a refund via their platform which in turn would trigger a refund from CDPR. Hence them stipulating they'd do the refunds directly if anyone had issues. Steam, GOG, Epic, Xbox, PlayStation; only one platform had an issue - and they happen to be the only platform to delist the game. What are the odds?
I think you've spent too much time on social media espousing "narratives". Instead of dismissing, try discussing. You're also failing quite spectacularly at reading comprehension, which makes speaking with you painful. As I said in my previous post, try reading and understanding instead of dialing up the Defence Force nonsense. As I said previously, across the PS4 generation, Sony's studios moved towards only making games that were tangentially related to the hero-based cinematic third person action adventure games that they found success with. Killzone Shadowfall fits my statement perfectly - in fact, it's my chief example. Instead of FPS games, its developer now makes open world cinematic third person action-adventure games. SingStar and The Last Guardian also fit my statements perfectly, examples of games Sony no longer makes. Detroit Become Human wasn't developed by Sony, it was published by them - but, funnily enough, it actually fits the "third person cinematic action adventure game" moniker anyway. Bloodborne is a From Soft game paid for by Sony, and it's the opposite of "cinematic". As I said, Sony relies on its third party partners to cover the bases it no longer covers. It's internal AAA efforts are big budget cinematic action-adventure games and Gran Turismo. It's smaller studios, when given the chance to make bigger titles, also seem to fall into this same vein. For example, Returnal's developer, Housemarque, got a bigger budget and they made... a hero-based third person action game with cinematic story telling elements sprinkled on top. I wonder what their next game will be?
Correct, Killzone is a 3rd person action/adventure game
Again with the "narratives". I've explained my opinion from my perspective. You've offered nothing except to decry the "narrative" boogey-man.
Again with the 0-100 defence force rhetoric. I've adressed your dishonest strawman in my prior post.
How will Sony include GaaS titles in their portfolio if they don't have a support system in place to assist their developers with making, polishing, and maintaining these new types of games? Sony will need to provide something or else all of their titles will likely fail. If only they could take some of their support and development infrastructure and... what's the word... transition them to be GaaS focused to ensure their new endeavours succeed. And if only they could purchase a developer/publisher with a deep expertise in developing and maintaining this type of game to assist in this transitionary process...
{insert code here}
Member
CDPR has a total marketcap of PLN 13.05 B, which is roughly 2.9 billion in USD. That number fits in Sony's M&A target and when considering that at the summer 2020 high this company had a marketcap of over 11 billion USD it's kind of a bargain.
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D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
Horizon franchise will fill their WRPG gap. They secured Baldur's Gate 3 even though that's more of a strategy game isn't it? Either way, im going with no. I think Sony keeps doing what they've been doing while also expanding into multi-player live service games and VR.
RedC
Member
Robb
Gold Member
Will it? I’ve always viewed Horizon like something more akin to an Action/Adventure game (kinda like Zelda, Assassins Creed etc. which I also don’t think of as JRPG or WRPG). Although I will admit I find the lines very blurred on these genres.
But does Horizon really fill the gap for someone who want to play something like TES, Witcher or Outer Worlds? It wouldn’t for me.
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remember_spinal
Banned
Naw, people want something more open ended, stat-based, and choice driven.
The only publishers that fulfills that niche is CD Projekt Red
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remember_spinal
Banned
I forgot about DD2
Kurimao
Member
This. Instead of buying another studio & take chances I'd like to see Naughtydog do a FPS Fantasy WRPG then after a few updates do a PSVR2 of it. Then take the WRPG crown while at it.
There's no doubt they can do it better than anyone.
Kokoloko85
Member
Nah, that seems a bit too smart for them to do
crackajack
Member
CDProjekt has the only IPs that would counter Fallout, TES and Starfield. But I think they want to keep their independence and sort of PC centric culture.
Unless EA is on the table Mass Effect and Dragon Age (+Jade Empire) would certainly also be interesting, but EA or Take2 are a bit hard to swallow. MS has trouble to get CoD (and Diablo and WoW) so the actual market leader probably won't be allowed to suck up big publishers.
Larian studios might be interesting. Maybe work something out with Embracer and buy Piranha Bytes and give them a good engine. Or also whoever owns rights to and worked on those: Titan Quest, Torchlight, Sacred, Kingdoms of Amalur. Or any of the many failed or actually successful WoW clones Age of Conan, SW Galaxies/ The Old Republic, Guild Wars, LotR online and has currently a studio and game director that is able to pull a new one off. There are certaily still some decent options.
Or just turn any of their own IPs fully into an RPG or spin off RPG. Mostly I'd guess Horizon, Bloodborne or Tsushima could be interesting RPGs. It isn't like open world games are miles away from TES and those distracting sidequests on every corner. Loot stuff is in many shooters too, so the genres are anyway not anymore that clear cut and many studios kind off do RPG lite already anyway. They just need a bunch of good writers to make the bit more text heavy games not as dreadful as the average usual game.
Most established studios are not sold for a penny like Insomniac or Eidos & CD was. So instead of buying something for insane money, they could also just build two or three studios from the ground up and if one succeeds it should be worth it.
There are some huge RPGs, and those do great numbers, especially Skyrim is sort of doing the same as GTA5, selling over generations. No idea why Sony is asleep on the wheel in that area. Some okayish devs where available, Embracer bought them after all. Only the FF deal is not that much and RPGs might be a bit of a hole in the coming years, or at least should be easier to find at their competitors portfolio with Bethesda, Obsidian, inXile and maybe Blizzard.
Unless EA is on the table Mass Effect and Dragon Age (+Jade Empire) would certainly also be interesting, but EA or Take2 are a bit hard to swallow. MS has trouble to get CoD (and Diablo and WoW) so the actual market leader probably won't be allowed to suck up big publishers.
Larian studios might be interesting. Maybe work something out with Embracer and buy Piranha Bytes and give them a good engine. Or also whoever owns rights to and worked on those: Titan Quest, Torchlight, Sacred, Kingdoms of Amalur. Or any of the many failed or actually successful WoW clones Age of Conan, SW Galaxies/ The Old Republic, Guild Wars, LotR online and has currently a studio and game director that is able to pull a new one off. There are certaily still some decent options.
Or just turn any of their own IPs fully into an RPG or spin off RPG. Mostly I'd guess Horizon, Bloodborne or Tsushima could be interesting RPGs. It isn't like open world games are miles away from TES and those distracting sidequests on every corner. Loot stuff is in many shooters too, so the genres are anyway not anymore that clear cut and many studios kind off do RPG lite already anyway. They just need a bunch of good writers to make the bit more text heavy games not as dreadful as the average usual game.
Most established studios are not sold for a penny like Insomniac or Eidos & CD was. So instead of buying something for insane money, they could also just build two or three studios from the ground up and if one succeeds it should be worth it.
There are some huge RPGs, and those do great numbers, especially Skyrim is sort of doing the same as GTA5, selling over generations. No idea why Sony is asleep on the wheel in that area. Some okayish devs where available, Embracer bought them after all. Only the FF deal is not that much and RPGs might be a bit of a hole in the coming years, or at least should be easier to find at their competitors portfolio with Bethesda, Obsidian, inXile and maybe Blizzard.
DarthPutin
Member
I am not sure what even qualifies as an RPG for gamerZ. Sony games already have those boring progression trees which make you stare at menus for hours - my least favorite thing about games, how's this entertaining.
Does Witcher 3 qualify? If so, don't see why they could not do something like that, it's close to their own games. Sure, it probably won’t be quite as well received or as well written, W3 was lightning in the bottle, mostly because of writing quality, IMO. But they are certainly capable of giving you few slides of "alternate endings" in the end, as in main game, or have few dialogue options at the end of the quest, which was the end result of most "choices" in Witcher. They wouldn’t have to add that much, IMO.
Or does it have to have protagonist you create by yourself? Because W3 had set protagonist, which I generally prefer. That would be less on brand for classic PS offering. Otherwise, big open cinematic worlds with development trees for protags is well within their purview.
Does Witcher 3 qualify? If so, don't see why they could not do something like that, it's close to their own games. Sure, it probably won’t be quite as well received or as well written, W3 was lightning in the bottle, mostly because of writing quality, IMO. But they are certainly capable of giving you few slides of "alternate endings" in the end, as in main game, or have few dialogue options at the end of the quest, which was the end result of most "choices" in Witcher. They wouldn’t have to add that much, IMO.
Or does it have to have protagonist you create by yourself? Because W3 had set protagonist, which I generally prefer. That would be less on brand for classic PS offering. Otherwise, big open cinematic worlds with development trees for protags is well within their purview.
kuncol02
Member
Killzone is dead for a decade already and studio responsible for it is making Ubisoft style third person action games now.Correct, Killzone is a 3rd person action/adventure game
Sony probably can’t afford them now. Should have tried a buyout after cyberpunk tanked.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Drakan was one of their entries from Western developers in that field (also Champions of Everquest + Untold Legends, but those were by SOE, not SCE. And then the Neopets games were sometimes RPGish, but probably aren't worth counting.) That was all a long time ago.
You’re right, I forgot that SOE did do a couple games for Sony’s consoles. SOE pretty much did WRPGs, but Sony sold them off.
I guess we could always see an attempt at an action/adventure RPG along the lines of Fable. But we’ll never see anything on the level of an Elder Scrolls out of Sony.
It’s one of the genres where Sony will lag behind other platforms.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
They already have secured KOTOR Remake, likely as a permanent PS console exclusive.
Beyond that, yes, I think they will secure 1-2 more this generation.
Beyond that, yes, I think they will secure 1-2 more this generation.
gamerEMdoc
Neo Member
If they committed to building a big WRPG today and announced it, it wouldn't be done even by launch of the next generation of consoles. It takes 5-7 years to make many of these huge games. PS5 is unlikely to still be "current gen" in 2030.
crackajack
Member
Why?
Kingdom of Amalur practically was TES4 and since I don't know that, it felt very much like TES3 to me. By a realitvely unknown, sort of small studio.
AC kind of swings in and out of its RPG-ness and has certainly maps fitting for an RPG.
CDProjekt started as Baldurs Gate support studio sort of turning their later work into a mod with Witcher skin.
Sony would not start at that almost amateurish point if one of their big studios would tackle it.
The tech is anyway often not really the problem. Writing tons of dialog and not bore with meaningless fetch quests is hard though. Maybe getting a license for some known fantasy universe helps, but getting the right people leading is imho the breaking point.
Of course Sony, Embracer, Tencent, Square, Capcom Rockstar etc. all could do TES if they really try.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Develop? Nope. Not anything soon.
Secure or acquire. Doubt it.
I don’t really think Sony cares for the RPG genre and Final Fantasy could be the exception.
Secure or acquire. Doubt it.
I don’t really think Sony cares for the RPG genre and Final Fantasy could be the exception.
remember_spinal
Banned
Sony have 25+ games in development
remember_spinal
Banned
So why would they try and buy starfield exclusivity and KoTOR? I think Sony is not going to want to give their fanbase a reason to want to jump over to xbox this generation, and elder scrolls would be a a huge reason, combined with the smaller WRPG’s.
Those micro-monopolies are bad for business.
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Long Far Gone
Member
Elden Ring is a JRPG which has sold roughly 20 million copies.
remember_spinal
Banned
Not the kind of jrpg sony has access to securing a deal for.
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begotten
Member
There was a lot of buzz around KoToR "being remade for the PS5" so is that game actually exclusive or timed? That's a big classic to have.
Between that and some 2nd/3rd party games like People Can Fly IP, Casey Hudsons' new IP, Ken Levines' Judas, ME4 and DA among many other unknowns that should surely be enough for the Sony ecosystem this generation no?
Ofc they could also do what they do best and cultivate / nurture a team or IP for it but I'm not sure who the takers would be unless it's already a Haven / Ballistic Moon.
Between that and some 2nd/3rd party games like People Can Fly IP, Casey Hudsons' new IP, Ken Levines' Judas, ME4 and DA among many other unknowns that should surely be enough for the Sony ecosystem this generation no?
Ofc they could also do what they do best and cultivate / nurture a team or IP for it but I'm not sure who the takers would be unless it's already a Haven / Ballistic Moon.
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TheGodfather07
Member
I'm interested to see sonys response to starfield. They know its a big loss. Sony ain't shy of creating their own ip though. They should try their own take on that Bethesda style RPG.
kuncol02
Member
They can try, but outside of InXile, Obsidian and Bethesda there realy isn't much of people who have enough expertise to design and write AAA RPG game. There is prety much only CDPRed and Larian, but from what I played of Larian games they are not great (Divinity: Original Sin was really meh in terms of story and writing).
There are studios making great indie RPGs (Spidersweb, Iron Tower, Atom Team), but I can't imagine any of them with big budget game.
How hard it is to make AAA RPG games we can see after failure of Mass Effect Andromeda, Vampire The Masquarade 2 or KotoR remake.
There are studios making great indie RPGs (Spidersweb, Iron Tower, Atom Team), but I can't imagine any of them with big budget game.
How hard it is to make AAA RPG games we can see after failure of Mass Effect Andromeda, Vampire The Masquarade 2 or KotoR remake.
remember_spinal
Banned
Lol
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samoilaaa
Member
sony never released a game as good as witcher 3
kuncol02
Member
IMO Divinity Original Sin is few level bellow even Spidersweb games like Geneforge and It's simply not comparable to games like Baldur's Gate, Fallout 2 or Planescape: Torment.
I was super disappointment when I was playing it. It's basically old school BioWare game design with less talented writers. That's main reason why I was not happy when they announced that they next game will be Baldur's Gate 3.
Maybe they upped they game with Divinity 2, but I'm not sure if I even want to check it.
remember_spinal
Banned
Lol
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