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[Allandor]

I don't know about that MS claim.

So it goes from 12TF for the normal specs, but HW RT adds another 13TF?

Sounds far fetched.

Well, not really. According to the developer it would be an equivalent if you would use a software RT solution, than you would need >13TF of shader compute power to get the same results. But shaders are not very efficient in that category, so the RT-hardware just adds additional compute power, but only for RT (more or less look at it like fixed function hardware).

I really wait for the next click-bait article that state "96TF console" without mentioning Int4 compute power ^^

 

[JORMBO]

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

So even an SSD hooked up via USB externally can’t run XsX games?

 

[rofif]

look the video you troll

no boost!
cpu
gpu
ssd
frequency/clocks/speeds
are
core = carved in stone


he tells it 3 times for the really stupid.... but it was not enough

I've not watched the video. I was commenting the specs

 

[thelastword]

I don't think VRAM will be a problem with this gen. The "slow" memory-pool is not that much slower, it is still quite fast. And there is still the "SSD"-memory that is way faster than last gens HDD. So less ahead-streaming is needed. Therefor it should be no longer needed to package everything into chunks where every packets contain data that other packets contain. Therefor less cpu time and memory is also needed because the packaged must not get uncompressed in memory, each file can be compressed just to save bandwidth. This should mean that there should be no longer big chunks of memory used, just for files that will never be used.

That's fair, but SSD's as fast as they are are not faster than VRAM and at these much higher resolutions we still need a fair amount to avoid stuttering and other bottlenecks...…..I don't think SSD's are the entire answer here, it has to go hand in hand with some insanely fast RAM and more of it tbf.....

tbh the best gains i have with my 2070s is when i tone down shadows, reflections, lights etc, texture have usually a very small gain between ultra and very high, maybe i was just lucky on playing games with little gains from textures...

At ultra RTX? well it's not the only thing, but textures are usually tied to Vram capacity, so there's that connect that affects it directly...

 

[KlickKlack]

Beast system. Good to see MS reveal official specs.

Only drawback is SSD expansion storage is limited to 1TB cards? So if you have 3TB of games, you got to buy two 1TB cards? Hope MS pacthes this and allows higher capacity cards at launch.

Was it 360 or Xbox One that upped the external drive size limit in a patch?

lol. Turns out it's about 12.1TF. Where's that "insider" who claimed it was 11.6TF, but due to rounding MS probably said 12TF for PR, so they are going to be right after all?

if you have 3 TB of games you simply storage it on a normal 5TB hdd drive and when you need a game you copy it with 150Mbit/s to your main SSD.
Don't see any problems here

 

[Skyr]

Can you imagine if all games shipped with a 4k/30 mode, a 1440p/60 mode with ;'full graphics', and a 4k/60 mode with reduced graphics.
It would be pretty sweet.

I really hope so. I wish those kind of options would be mandatory.

 

[GymWolf]

That's fair, but SSD's as fast as they are are not faster than VRAM and at these much higher resolutions we still need a fair amount to avoid stuttering and other bottlenecks...…..I don't think SSD's are the entire answer here, it has to go hand in hand with some insanely fast RAM and more of it tbf.....

At ultra RTX? well it's not the only thing, but textures are usually tied to Vram capacity, so there's that connect that affects it directly...

oh sorry, i didn't understand that you were talking about gaming with ultra rtx activated, i just don't use that stuff at all except maybe for the first 10 min just to laugh at people who prefer that compared to higher framerates or resolution or details in their games

 

[TBiddy]

That's fair, but SSD's as fast as they are are not faster than VRAM and at these much higher resolutions we still need a fair amount to avoid stuttering and other bottlenecks...…..I don't think SSD's are the entire answer here, it has to go hand in hand with some insanely fast RAM and more of it tbf.....

What exactly is your technical background, since you can draw a conclusion like that?

You have no idea how the next-gen consoles work or what the SSD cache will do on either, and yet we have you in the XSX-thread desperately trying to downplay the console that isn't from your favority manufacturer. It's petty and it's extremely obvious what you're trying to do.

 

[Steve.1981]

I believe Sony needs to answer the bell sooner than later. MS is in the process of rounding the bases after a home run right now. Sony’s silence gets “louder” by the day, especially after today.

The clock is ticking.

I think Sony just have a plan set out and will reveal new info when the time comes. I don't think they're struggling, I think they know that when they show their hand it's going to get very loud and they don't want to rush into it. Look how much of a response they got to one interview and a logo reveal.

Plus, they still have a couple of big games coming this gen, which they will want to keep the spotlight on before moving to next gen news. With the best will in the world, MS aren't in that position.

 

[KlickKlack]

So it's 10gb ram for games and 6gb for os/non gaming apps?

no

 

[thelastword]

I believe Sony needs to answer the bell sooner than later. MS is in the process of rounding the bases after a home run right now. Sony’s silence gets “louder” by the day, especially after today.

The clock is ticking.

Well let's not make this about Sony...….As it stands, I think there is too much of talk about Sony in this thread already as opposed to XBOX....

MS just announced their specs, lets discuss that instead, but in my opinion, I see no reason Sony has to react to this.....November 2020 is a long way away and no one can even preorder farless take an XBOX Series X home anytime soon...….By June or even September, people's reaction to these specs here now will be very different and it will be a distant memory…...I think the hype for a console is normally sustained closer to it's launch date.....

 

[GymWolf]

I think Sony will be ok......

Funny I've seen so many mentions of Sony, just enjoy the reveal and discuss the plusses or negatives of the XBOX design......I always said the difference between the consoles will not be all the TF count we are so enamored with these days, but what rounds the consoles.....Like advanced ports and features,
custom engineering (memory speeds, side bus speeds, MEM/GPU/CPU connects) and general info surrounding the underlying tech.....Load speeds, how the SSD's will be used, how custom and improved will the RT tech be from one console to the other, how improved the sound and media chip will be from one console to the other......In essence, the console with less bottlenecks and less compromises will be seen as better designed...…..It comes down to custom engineering in the end and the rationale behind the custom work...…..Now, that's what moves me instead of just a TF number...

i just want a machine at least on par with sex...(or at least a SeX console)

in cerny i believe.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I really hope so. I wish those kind of options would be mandatory.

I know this probably can’t happen but if consoles let us add a sharpening filter like we can with Nvidia control panel (i think AMD has it too) for games that have excessive TAA blur, that would be awesome

 

[KlickKlack]

So what are we looking at in terms of the gpu. Is that on par with a 2080ti?

on par? hahaha it eats monsters to breakfast

12,150TF gpu + 13 TF rtx power = 25TF current Gpu power

it's in the DF video

 

[thelastword]

i just want a machine at least on par with sex...(or at least a SeX console)

in cerny i believe.

I think you should be ok....Go give Tommy Fisher some love in the next gen thread..... Capiche…..? He is on the money.........

 

[Allandor]

That's fair, but SSD's as fast as they are are not faster than VRAM and at these much higher resolutions we still need a fair amount to avoid stuttering and other bottlenecks...…..I don't think SSD's are the entire answer here, it has to go hand in hand with some insanely fast RAM and more of it tbf.....

Well, it is a console, that means compromise in every way. More RAM is more or less always better, but the price is where the compromise begins.
I really don't think that the last gen had a memory problem (from it's size). Memory size just exploded with the last gen and on PC-GPUs, too. Developers are no longer optimizing what is inside of the memory, because they don't need to optimize it. So the next gen, will introduce a nice addition of RAM (a bit more than double the size of last gen (games had only 5-5,5GB)) and over time, developers will try to use it more efficiently. And there is the addition of fast SSD memory they've got, that can also reduce the stuff that is needed in the memory pool.
As stated by DF, MS analysed how much stuff is in the memory, that is never used, and therefore they seem to be innovative to introduce new tools to optimize it.

For sure, GPUs in 2-3 years will have more memory and be way faster, but as it is a console, it is always a compromise of speed/capacity vs price.

 

[Kacho]

Wow what a beastly machine. 16gb of GDDR6 is badass!

 

[Shin]

They knocked it out of the park in terms of engineering, saying that as someone that's been gaming since 1992.
I'm really impressed by the things they thought needed fixing, the ways they went about it all and the sheer performance.

There are 2 things that worries me though, the machine is too packed, almost no space for airflow so that's a worry and the other being the SSD speed.
Seems a bit slow, I was expecting games to resume/switch and/or boot up faster, hopefully it's just the older games running like that and not newer ones created for XS.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

The quick resume with multiple games is pretty cool. I originally didn’t care about this feature but seeing it in action, especially when I tend to be playing 3-4 games at a time, just seems very handy

 

[BeardGawd]

I find it interesting that MS is stressing that these are not "Boost" clocks and that the Ray Tracing solution isn't Shader based. Why would they need to emphasize those points unless Sony is possibly going that direction?

 

[Liamario]

If I didn't own a PC, I'd be all over this. I like the design of the box, the specs are great and the backward compatibility and other features are brilliant. For those of you who don't go in for Sony, you've got something special to look forward to. Microsoft just need to prove their worth with their exclusive software, but I suppose that's why I have a PC instead of an Xbox.

 

[Allandor]

There are 2 things that worries me though, the machine is too packed, almost no space for airflow so that's a worry and the other being the SSD speed.
Seems a bit slow, I was expecting games to resume/switch and/or boot up faster, hopefully it's just the older games running like that and not newer ones created for XS.

Directly resume the last game, should work instant without any wait time. Resuming other titles is always a bit "slower". The current memory state must be written to the SSD, and the new-State must be read into memory. Writing is always a bit slower than reading, so 6.x seconds is the bare minium (except for xbox/xbox 360 titles, those should be much faster).
But I really hope that I can deactivate this. Writing to SSDs is still not that great. If I can reduce write-times, it would be OK for me to deactivate this feature.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

sony can't change anything substantial at this point, if the speaks are far weaker they are relatively fucked.

Not if the price is far cheaper. we still don't know, but it's really hard to envision an affordable console surpassing these specs.

 

[GameOfPixelsX]

I think nothing would, I think it's too soon for SSD based hardware for gaming. They're still not affordable enough to buy sizes that really will last long in a game machine. I only just recently bought a 500gb as my boot drive on my PC. When games are over 100gb this generation, 1tb is not enough. It's still too expensive when you consider how fucking big games are. Optimize hard drive usage better for now.

You are wrong here. Can't believe you even said that.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

So even an SSD hooked up via USB externally can’t run XsX games?

No, it won't come remotely close to reaching the speeds necessary.

 

[Gone]

This is better than my future here in Iraq.

 

[MCplayer]

so guys tell me something.
12TF GPU compute + 15TF worth of Hardware accelerated RT right?
so imagine that a developer makes a game Tripple A game without RT, could the developer use the 15TF part with the GPU power? "doubling the graphics fidelity without raytracing, or maybe use 15TF to get 120FPS?! Oo

 

[SleepDoctor]

Nice but a bit disappointed with only 16gb.

 

[Shin]

12TF GPU compute + 15TF worth of Hardware accelerated RT

I smiled when that popped up in the vid, reminded me of someone named OnQ123 and his FP16 next level of crazy.

 

[GameOfPixelsX]

No new game reveals...….Still 16GB seems low to me for a next generation, XBONEX already had 12.....What's more is that 10GB alone is Optimal/High speed....Almost reminds me of the GTX 970 situation……..2.5GB of lower speed memory for the OS means the OS and swapping features may lag on top of the games, but then we also see 3.5GB of lower speed memory that can be utilized by the devs, I dont think this is ideal and may bring with it some bottlenecks….

Ideally, they should have gone with 16GB of Optimal Memory and 4GB of a separate lower speed memory just for the OS and boost that with some NVME storage.....As it stands 16GB in total is low, 13.5GB of mixed speed memory is an issue and only 10GB of only Optimal memory is really really low for next gen games....if you are going to push 4k, 120Hz, 8K etc......

The back compat thing is a given, but Richard said Gears Remake is 4K from 1080p on XBONES wasn't that game already 4k on XBONEX? So it's not like series X is taking it from 1080p to 4K.....I'm thinking it's just using XBONEX code...…The games in saved states is allright, but they only tested last gen games...…I still find the 5-6 seconds it takes for these old games on new gen storage tech should be faster......I think loadtimes there should take no more than 2 seconds ideally....So I'm wondering how long new gen Series X games will take to load from saved states...

All in all, a competent enough piece of kit, but we need to see what their new games will look like...…CPU power should help with uncapped framerate plenty on older BC games.....In as much as Richard says it doesn't look like a PC it actually does look like a min-PC, especially the way they put everything together in a screwless type slot your parts in type system......…One thing sticks out to me and that's the ram and the SSD tech needs to impress a bit more from what I'm seeing......

Wow.

 

[Flick]

Wow.

a new level of stupid, right?

 

[KlickKlack]

Yes the upside to it of course is that are upfront, but it's still a problem I forsee when devs get ambitious and start using more VRAM...….We tend to forget that these consoles are no longer 1080P machines, they will be pushing 4K and 8K......Also pushing high textures whilst pushing high rez is a Vram fiend.....Just check how many times current RTX cards need to lower texture resolution to get better framerates and less stuttering....

These consoles are not only going to push high resolutions, but Raytracing as well...….The demands are much higher, it's when lots of high speed Vram is needed most....

""Mesh shading allows developers to completely bypass those fixed function bottlenecks by providing an optional alternative to the existing parts of the GPU pipeline. In addition to performance, mesh shading offers developers flexibility and memory savings. Mesh shading will allow game developers to increase detail in the shapes and animations of objects and render more complex scenes with no sacrifice to frame-rate." "

 

[abcdrstuv]

Sorry if this has been covered already, usually I read the whole thread first:

with "USB 3.2", how long would it take to transfer a 50GB game from an external HDD or SSD to the console SSD?

 

[Endless Fluff]

I wonder how much the 1TB expandable stowage sticks (or whatever) will cost? I assume these will match the nvme speed?

They should match the internal speeds, it connects via PCIe 4.0 as well.

I really love this design. Opening up your console for cleaning, reapplying thermal paste or any repair (if you can get the parts) can be done super easily.

 

[psorcerer]

could the developer use the 15TF part with the GPU power?

No, that "15TF" figure is virtual. There's no real ALU blocks that do that computation. They are fixed: only for RT.

 

[Hendrick's]

Yes I do and I uninstall the ones I don't need. So its up to me to have how many games and not to you or anyone else

Actually it will be up to your SSD.

 

[Flick]

Sorry if this has been covered already, usually I read the whole thread first:

with "USB 3.2", how long would it take to transfer a 50GB game from an external HDD or SSD to the console SSD?

around 8 minutes. Maybe faster.

 

[Shin]

Confused

As am I, still trying to get my head around the setup as the explanation by DF left a lot to be desired - it simply didn't make any sense.
Taping into those 16GB for OS plus bandwidth difference is really odd to me and I read tech news a lot, trying to get a proper answer as to why they went this route.
When all is said and done and hype aside, the SSD speed, the amount of memory and by proxy it's setup, quick resume speed and the lack of Wi-Fi 6 / AX and/or in a 3x3 configuration is a bit disappointing.

Those sacrifices probably had to be made in order to keep the cost under control because 16GB+12TF+Zen2+RDNA2+3.8GHz+1TB NVMe SSD definitely pushes the BoM like crazy.
Nothing is perfect, just slight internal disappointment - just being honest with myself and about it all.

 

[MCplayer]

No, that "15TF" figure is virtual. There's no real ALU blocks that do that computation. They are fixed: only for RT.

Affirmative

 

[Team Andromeda]

Sony got what they wanted, which was to get MS to show their cards first.

That worked wonders the other way around for MS last gen

 

[Shin]

Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation - Xbox Wire

A few months ago, we revealed Xbox Series X, our fastest, most powerful console ever, designed for a console generation that has you, the player, at its center. When it is released this holiday season, Xbox Series X will set a new bar for performance, speed and compatibility, all while allowing...

news.xbox.com

Another article here.

You should split this into it's own article as this thread if DF's coverage and those images from Microsoft aren't in it.
DF's take on things vs. the official source and different material.

 

[KlickKlack]

I find it interesting that MS is stressing that these are not "Boost" clocks and that the Ray Tracing solution isn't Shader based. Why would they need to emphasize those points unless Sony is possibly going that direction?

that a good question...

maybe sony will make some trickery and allow the 9,2TF box to ovelock for 2-3 minuten to 11TF [because of the thermal problems they cant run it on this 11TF nonstop] only for the specsheet./marketing reason.....
on paper 11 vs 12,150.... devilish

 

[Kazekage1981]

Xsx does NOT have Wifi6

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

You should split this into it's own article as this thread if DF's coverage and those images from Microsoft aren't in it.
DF's take on things vs. the official source and different material.

I disagree. This thread is suitable and appropriate for said information, imo

 

[GymWolf]

Not if the price is far cheaper. we still don't know, but it's really hard to envision an affordable console surpassing these specs.

hopefully is not gonna be that affordable...

 

[Kacho]

This is so fucking hype.

 

[GymWolf]

I think you should be ok....Go give Tommy Fisher some love in the next gen thread..... Capiche…..? He is on the money.........

who? link?

 

[LostDonkey]

Expansion cards.

Called it.

 

[CitizenX3639]

Can someone put together a time lapse of the hours talking about a box and the literal minutes they talk about games.