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Did Cerny lie about ps5 updates?
- Thread starter The Hamburglar
- Start date
- Drama
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Hey go somewhere else with that common sense we don't want crap like that here.
People will try to straw any explanation, whether it be logical or not.
SLB1904
Banned
ps5 is dead quiet what you talking about
Antony1992
Member
To you and clowns like you: fake release date of God of War to sell more PS5 and 'we believe in generation', the most ridicolous quote ever.
Spider man and Horizon released also on Ps4, with high probability of God of war doing the same.
Sorry man, that's the truth.
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geordiemp
Member
Its quite easy to see the ps4 games configured to ps5 with minimal effort and the ps5 games using the decompression and ps5 file structure.
If the game loads in > 2-3 seconds, its the old system with a slap of paint, even if it has a ps5 badge on the cover - games like Valhalla is a ps4 file game lets face it..
Sony games, even some ps4 have the new file structure, and a few multiplays but not many so far.We coudl easily make a list of the,
Does it make a difference, well FFVII going down to 2 seconds says yes, so going foward its fine.
If there are any lies, its some games saying ps5 game and really its cross gen
If the game loads in > 2-3 seconds, its the old system with a slap of paint, even if it has a ps5 badge on the cover - games like Valhalla is a ps4 file game lets face it..
Sony games, even some ps4 have the new file structure, and a few multiplays but not many so far.We coudl easily make a list of the,
Does it make a difference, well FFVII going down to 2 seconds says yes, so going foward its fine.
If there are any lies, its some games saying ps5 game and really its cross gen
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The Hamburglar
Banned
So they said they believe in generations and then proceed to release cross gen exclusives and ps5 only exclusives. That’s a nice collection of ‘lies’ there.
But hey at least they’re getting exclusives out the door right? Phil’s been promising the games are coming since 2015 and im sure you’ll tell me they’ve bought 20 new studios and the games will be coming soon.
You and the other clowns i was referring to are either fud spreaders who only bother to post to spread warrior crap or are alts. It’s quite obvious.
Mr Moose
Member
What fake release date?
The "we believe in generations" thing is about what the new hardware brings (controller and stuff), its not Jimbos fault people can't read.
"We have always said that we believe in generations. We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include. And that, in our view, people should make games that can make the most of those features.
"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."
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That is happening with Valhalla what is a PS5 native game. Yes, Cerny lied or originally was so but they changed because corrupted patches, PS4 originally didnt copy the patched too, they added this almost 3 years after (around Pro release) because many people had problems with corrupted games (the infamous error code)
Whitecrow
Banned
I've said cross gen games, not back compat games.
As long as there's a previous gen version, a game may not use all PS5 features, as they need extra development not needed in previous gen.
assurdum
Banned
Wut? Files are copied and pasted in the game archive with the old logic. PS5 is not a pc, you can't achieve automatically faster processing data without dedicate coding in the game. PS5 is not a virtual coded machine.
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assurdum
Banned
What common sense, come on. Most of you haven't a single clue how works such stuff and also pretend to appear as the reasonable one. That's literally annoying this loop argumentations again and again in every thread about ps5.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Explain the logic then. Please explain in full detail how these custom file systems work on these consoles.
I’ll wait.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
So, do you have a single idea what's going on?
It is common sense to understand that a faster harddrive, especially an ssd, will be way faster than an mechanical harddrive.
Cut Cerny's crap about you have to hard code to make it work, it's straight up bullshit.
If you put a faster mechanical harddrive or even an ssd on ps4 or Xbox one, guess what, it became faster. And nothing was coded for it.
You don't code to make something faster on a PC. You don't code ti 2435533 different harddrives on pc, yet we are talking about faster speed.
If the PS5 isn't faster at installing and running games, no matter if its ps4 or ps5 games or updating or whatever, then there's a serious problem.
If what cerny says could kind of being correct, then it doesn't mean you have to code these things to support them, that means it coded on a system level to not support it by default.
The reason there is a loop is because Messiah Cerny fools some people to believe in what he says, even though there's evidence of the opposite.
Games will always load and update faster without being coded.
Granted, ps5 has some sort of io level that increases load times if hard coded for that specific thing, but not on OS level like installing updating or launching a game that's not coded for it. It should Always be faster than the ps4, and bc is a stupid argument.
It's like saying "gee I might fear replacing my ssd because maybe it's not coded for Windows 10 (or the other way around whatever you prefer), so I can't expect it to run faster even though this ssd is 8 times faster."
Stupid argument.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This guy knows more than Cerny ^
“Hard coding is straight bullshit” on a system that literally hard codes with very little virtualization layers compared to PCs.
Which is why MS uses virtualization for their BC efforts and Sony doesn’t. Neither is a wrong approach. Just different methods.
cOmMoN sEnSe though.
Go debate Cerny so we can all laugh as he intellectually dismantles you while remaining cool as a cucumber machiado.
“Hard coding is straight bullshit” on a system that literally hard codes with very little virtualization layers compared to PCs.
Which is why MS uses virtualization for their BC efforts and Sony doesn’t. Neither is a wrong approach. Just different methods.
cOmMoN sEnSe though.
Go debate Cerny so we can all laugh as he intellectually dismantles you while remaining cool as a cucumber machiado.
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assurdum
Banned
Yes I have an idea. Ps5 needs dedicated coding to be faster because works with low API access. If it was virtualized as pc, issue like this wouldn't existed. If you don't understand how such stuff works, the problem is your who doesn't care to understand how this works behind the scene, not because Cerny is a liar.
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Portugeezer
Member
Demon's Souls had slow copying, but other than that I haven't played many PS5 native games.
Division 2 took like 10 minutes to 'copy' the latest 200MB update.
Don't know why moving files around SSD is so slow... clearly this is a OS issue which will have to be fixed in a future firmware update.
Division 2 took like 10 minutes to 'copy' the latest 200MB update.
Don't know why moving files around SSD is so slow... clearly this is a OS issue which will have to be fixed in a future firmware update.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
If it doesnt work without being coded for it, and it's a slow as a mechanical harddrive when it's not coded, then I'd say its a pretty bad system.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
, BC games aside, both systems will need software to do some heavy duty re-engineering. It was not just the HW (HDD to SSD), the drivers/ I/O API’s, but the games as well that have been coded with 20-30 years mass storage expectations. Why do you think that UE5 (and its first demo) went through a massive asset storing and loading (the UE5 I/O system) re-engineering?This is true for the XVA as well, devs will need to do plenty of work to max it as well (maybe reason why they did not spend even more of their R&D budget on it, fear of giving devs a target that would have not paid off or they felt they could get better returns elsewhere like more CU’s while Sony had the latter “covered” by a higher clocked design approach and spend more transistors on SSD I/O). Brute force only gets you so much.
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blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Really? So maybe it's a back compat thing as to why it's slow then.
PaintTinJr
Member
It will be bought parity clauses IMHO - which have been used by all sides pretty much since the industry got big. And I have no issue with the platform holders paying money - they could better use to make great games - to hamper game quality on other platforms, as part of an open market, but it is anti-consumer for these clauses to be hidden from the buying public, and even worse that people doing analysis probably know about such clauses and then weaponize the results as though the performance is a fair test.
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Killer Sakoman
Member
Epic spent years re-engineering their Unreal Engine to build UE5. Even Sony's 1st party studios aren't yet close to the level of UE5.
You guys think you'll get automatic results from cross gen titles? Developers will eventually lrarn. Both PS5 and XSX will introduce games you never seen before. Unfortunately, it will take sometime.
You guys think you'll get automatic results from cross gen titles? Developers will eventually lrarn. Both PS5 and XSX will introduce games you never seen before. Unfortunately, it will take sometime.
Portugeezer
Member
I agree, and I think this will be a longer generation because of that.
RaySoft
Member
The reason Cerny said this is because the PS5 has an SSD. When the PS4 were installing updates, it didn't only copy the contents over, it had to place the files in the "right" order to maximise file streaming. You can compare this to defragging a HDD on PC. Were talking physically moving data from the HDD's sectors and not just writing to the filetable.
This is not required on SSD's since you have "instant" access to files anyways. Defragging SSD's are BAD practice since you'll shorten it's lifespan considerably with all that writing going on.
This is not required on SSD's since you have "instant" access to files anyways. Defragging SSD's are BAD practice since you'll shorten it's lifespan considerably with all that writing going on.
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Maximus D. Meridius
Member
So, as a first post I realise this will be seen as warring.
(I own Both next gen consoles,
Since the patching games age of the PS3/360 Generation. The Xbox has downloaded and applied patches almost immediately. I have horrible memories of getting a loan of Uncharted 2 from my brother, and had to spend a good hour or so before the system had updated/installed and patched the game)
The Patch process on the PS5 has appeared identical to me as the PS4, It downloads then copies/Installs, Initial donwloads are faster than PS4 though.
The Series X, still just downloads the update and it's ready to go immediately.
Make of that "lived experience" what you will.
(I own Both next gen consoles,
Since the patching games age of the PS3/360 Generation. The Xbox has downloaded and applied patches almost immediately. I have horrible memories of getting a loan of Uncharted 2 from my brother, and had to spend a good hour or so before the system had updated/installed and patched the game)
The Patch process on the PS5 has appeared identical to me as the PS4, It downloads then copies/Installs, Initial donwloads are faster than PS4 though.
The Series X, still just downloads the update and it's ready to go immediately.
Make of that "lived experience" what you will.
Demons Souls have the copy thing too, and patches is a SO thing, so even if Valhalla is a cross gen, its a PS5 native game.
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Whitecrow
Banned
Well, still it seems that it works in a per game basis, so I dont know if it's a OS or a game thing : /
Animagic
Banned
Overheard in Mark Cerny’s basement dungeon:
“It puts the lotion on its skin or it gets the hose again.”
edit: oh I see I’m not the only one making fun of this serial killer ice cream van driving looking mfer
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Timeless One
Member
"Wanna see my SSD?"
k1m1d4n
Member
this is beautiful. I suddenly feel the need to buy a second ps5..... I don't know why..... But I seriously need another one ☝
Banjo64
cumsessed
The cognitive dissonance of a fanboy.
On the one hand you’ve been actively touting BC games as a huge win for Sony (in multiple threads);
Sony's PS+ offering has gone to another level lately. If you're a new PS5 owner, the amount of quality games compares favorably to any full rental service.
On the other hand, when someone complains about the long update times on those same games, you belittle the complaint.
You sound like a marketer (who’s shit at his job) lol.
michaelius
Banned
This most likely need to be programmed by game developers. So if they go lazy way and use same code as they used for previous games you won't see benefits.
cormack12
Gold Member
I think at the moment it's using the same method with faster hardware. It basically backs up the file, applies the patch, deletes the backup. I can see why they would want that as insurance for an update. It's pretty standard in real life. We can't really compare because we don't know whether Xbox just updates the file in place or not.
The unknown is will the update method change when devs aren't considering cross gen games. Can the 'update' be targeted at the specific chunk. So instead of copying the 80GB game file it just backs up the 250MB or less specific files that are being patched. I do think this is a dev thing as well though. Some large games update quite quickly which makes me think they can be a bit granular, or choose to just back up and apply.
The unknown is will the update method change when devs aren't considering cross gen games. Can the 'update' be targeted at the specific chunk. So instead of copying the 80GB game file it just backs up the 250MB or less specific files that are being patched. I do think this is a dev thing as well though. Some large games update quite quickly which makes me think they can be a bit granular, or choose to just back up and apply.
German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
Cerny looks like a perverted Jared Leto
CAB_Life
Member
Reading the comments in these threads always serves to remind me just how sane I am. I truly hope when you console war vets are dying on your deathbeds you each see the luminous logo of either an Xbox or a PS floating above your heads, and a voice (of Ken K or J Allard), beckons you home. Or it all really hasn't been worth the mental anguish and REEEEEing and you're just a bit of a tit, right?
Tag checks out.
I`m sure when they die after fighting during the great console war of 2020/2021 they will be greeted by 76 virgins....all of whom also fought during the great console war of 2020/2021.....
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I don't thnk you are right, you have to rewrite loading of assets with new APIs, these things hardly happens on itself. It's telling that fast loadtimes are on exlusives games + FF7: Remake v2. Because if you leave it as it is, the decompression is happening on CPU.
Mr.ODST
Member
Lol its so funny seing Sony Fanboys get mad about this,
They released the "we only believe in generations" after Microsoft posted about cross gen, then Sony proceeded to quietly announce their games being Cross-Gen.
Sony has been terrible since the PS5's launch and even before it going back on their word simple as
The Hamburglar
Banned
Look at this sanctimonious Chad rising above it. Please show us thou great one how to get laid.
Gamers rise up.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Maybe you can also quote that in context and not just for the lulz
?
Sony's Jim Ryan: “We are going to launch PS5 this holiday and we're going to launch globally"
"A great deal has happened since we last spoke. Terrible things happening in the world, which puts everything that you …
www.gamesindustry.biz
Oh context
...
Dick Jones
Gold Member
Jim Ryan said God of War Ragnarok will be on PS5. I checked the store and its not there. Is Jim Ryan a liar?
These threads full of the same clowns that make the three arguments, almost always simultaneously, and don't see the contrdictions.
1) Fuck Sony and Fuck SE for tying Yuffie DLC to PS5. Its poor form that they did this when they know there is a console shortage. I want to play that as I got the original on PS4 and can't get a console. They shouldn't be gatekeeping the games unless there is enough consoles in the wild.
2) a free upgrade only for those who bought the game. That's bullshit to those who have an active PS+ account like me but want to play the best version without ever having to buy the game.
3) "We believe in genererations" Jim Ryan having games release on PS4/PS5. Leave that shitty console behind and fuck those losers without a PS5. PS5 games only from now on.
These threads full of the same clowns that make the three arguments, almost always simultaneously, and don't see the contrdictions.
1) Fuck Sony and Fuck SE for tying Yuffie DLC to PS5. Its poor form that they did this when they know there is a console shortage. I want to play that as I got the original on PS4 and can't get a console. They shouldn't be gatekeeping the games unless there is enough consoles in the wild.
2) a free upgrade only for those who bought the game. That's bullshit to those who have an active PS+ account like me but want to play the best version without ever having to buy the game.
3) "We believe in genererations" Jim Ryan having games release on PS4/PS5. Leave that shitty console behind and fuck those losers without a PS5. PS5 games only from now on.
Concern
Member
Maybe you can also quote that in context and not just for the lulz
Sony's Jim Ryan: “We are going to launch PS5 this holiday and we're going to launch globally"
"A great deal has happened since we last spoke. Terrible things happening in the world, which puts everything that you …
Oh context
Amazing thats not the context SDF took it as either. Trolling every thread about cross gen Xbox games and yet here we are with Playstation cross gen games
.It was console war "ammo" till it wasn't. Funny how that worked out. But keep shifting goalposts.
Interfectum
Member
Nothing Ryan said was wrong.Amazing thats not the context SDF took it as either. Trolling every thread about cross gen Xbox games and yet here we are with Playstation cross gen games
It was console war "ammo" till it wasn't. Funny how that worked out. But keep shifting goalposts.
I own both a Series X and a PS5 and I definitely think the PS5 feels like a new generation of console because of the controller, the super fast loading and the new OS features. Series X feels like last gen with an upgraded GPU/CPU. Same games, same controller, same OS and better looking games.
Both directions have their positives and negatives but Sony nailed the feeling of buying into a next gen system even if it does still have cross gen games.
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Mr.ODST
Member
Series X has fast loading, they do need to make a next gen UI though
Interfectum
Member
Yeah I should say they both benefit from the SSD inclusion but I'm more talking about Sony's push for even more than just adding an SSD. Some of these PS5 games load blazingly fast and I'm guessing that's only going to get better in the future... see FF7 load times reduced from 42 seconds to 2 or whatever.
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