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[JohnnyFootball]

Fuck no, maybe on Xbox.


I refuse to buy any game on my PS5 that only offer 30fps. Good thing all Sony first party and second party games provide options. I’ll just buy the few third party games that only offer 30fps on PC.

Same here. If the only option is 30 fps, then I will not buy or support that game. Forcing me to experience your game with the choppiness of 30 fps is a dealbreaker. Sure, you can make your game look pretty in screenshots, but all that beauty is lost when you start moving and dealing with judder.

 

[King Dazzar]

THat's an option too, but you're just like a drop in an ocean. Insignificant.

But am I? There's surely a reason why we're getting numerous modes and options, beyond frame rates and into accessibility. I have no doubt that publishers and studios are aware of how popular 60fps modes are. And that by including them can help to sell their game.

I know I've posted this before. But it does let me know there are others who place a lot of value in 60fps modes too.

 

[Topher]

'Cause I wouldnt call any of them as one of the bests of all time

Correcting myself: Baldurs Gate 3. But thats far from a stable 60.

Another one regarded as one of the best, TotK, barely runs at 30

So your entire point consists of two games, one of them on Switch? Ok....I guess.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Obligatory reminder that 90% of the best games of all time were released at 30 FPS (maybe lower) on their original hardware and wouldn't be possible at 60

And this is still true to this day


What a fucking terrible analogy

A better one would be: in order to have state of the art CGI, movies would have to run at 24 FPS. Or you could have Spy Kids level of CGI at 48 FPS.

"Oh but Horizon FW is one of the best looking games and it runs at 60". Sure, and all I can think of is how amazing it could look then running at 30/1440p.

If you want higher FPS, buy a PC. Its been that way for decades for a reason.

If you want the best graphics, YOU can by a PC and IT'S been LIkE that For Years.

No shit specializeld hardware has limits. People want the frames over graphics on consoles now. New products bring new expectations (who would have thought)

 

[JohnnyFootball]

This is bullshit. Many of the best games and best-selling games do in fact run at 60fps. Outside of the obvious Ocarinas of times most of the classics ran at 60fps.

People often completely fail to mention that Ocarina was being played on a CRT by pretty much everyone when it came out. 30 fps on a CRT is a vastly superior experience to 30 fps on an LCD/OLED. 30 fps on a CRT actually gives the cinematic experience that many claim to want with lower framerate games.

I am always amazed at how many fail to recognize this when bringing up older games.

It angers me to no end how panel makers have not made any attempts beyond backlight strobing and black frame insertion to improve motion performance. There has to be a way to mimic a CRTs method of frame drawing that has to be worked on.

We are at the apex of resolution with 4K, improving motion is where it's at now.

I seem to recall hearing that 600Hz screens were being planned, where 1/10th of each frame would be rendered in a strobe like fashion for 60 fps content. I'd love to hear more about that.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

But am I? There's surely a reason why we're getting numerous modes and options, beyond frame rates and into accessibility. I have no doubt that publishers and studios are aware of how popular 60fps modes are. And that by including them can help to sell their game.

I know I've posted this before. But it does let me know there are others who place a lot of value in 60fps modes too.

6K votes....

Out of tens of millions of console gamers.

Ask yourself why there is no 60fps in games like Hellblade.

 

[Topher]

6K votes....

Out of tens of millions of console gamers.

That's how polling works.

Ask yourself why there is no 60fps in games like Hellblade.

Because the devs made that choice.

 

[Kataploom]

Not that you should "welcome" them, it's that you have no choice. I personally don't and will only make the exception when the system doesn't allow me a 60+ fps, that is: Nintendo games like Zelda or Xenoblade. But generally those are games that make me not care at all anyway, tho, I can't finish Zelda TOTK since it's too choppy for my tastes, I just don't like how animations look

 

[King Dazzar]

Ask yourself why there is no 60fps in games like Hellblade.

Series S parity constraints? Its a walking simulator. If it can run on Series S, I guarantee that some other studio more proficient with UE5, could get it running at 60fps on XSX.

 

[rm082e]

For consoles, I'm all for developers focusing on Quality modes @ 30fps as their target, then turning down the knobs however much is needed to provide a 60fps Performance mode. What I'm not interested in are Performance modes that can't maintain 60fps. I'd rather they just turn the knobs down however much is needed to get a solid 60fps. The Balanced modes that shoot for 40fps are a nice to have option.

I personally have a really hard time staying interested in games that run below 60 (thinking of FF16). I don't have a display with HDMI 2.1 though. Maybe I would feel differently if I did.

 

[Fbh]

Nah, screw 30fps. It's just about graphics, never gameplay. I've yet to see a single 30fps (or 30fps focused) game doing anything interesting in terms of gameplay and design that wouldn't be possible on Ps4.

All the games they talked about in the clip are the perfect example of this:
-Hellblade 2 (from what we've seen): Walk through narrow levels, complete basic puzzles and fight enemies 1 on 1. Wow such a next gen experience
-FFXVI felt like a Ps3 era game to me most of the time: Empty open areas with almost nothing to do or find in them, dungeons which are just linear corridors connecting combat arenas, "cinematic" boss fights which are just QTE's or basic "press X to awesome" sequences, a world with cool big cities we can't visit outside of cutscenes (and a few super linear levels) while during actual gameplay we only go to small towns with a few NPC's who are mostly standing around.

Right no now I'll ALWAYS pick a game with ps4 era graphics at around 1440-1800p and 60fps over a "next gen" looking game running at 30 or running at 60ish fps but less than 1080p.
I can maybe welcome 30fps if a game is doing something with its gameplay and design that truly feels next gen, but I doubt we'll see any. I'd bet money that Marvel game that is making all the graphics whores wet is going to be another cinematic game that plays like a Ps4 title.

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

The correct answer is no.

 

[rodrigolfp]

30 FPS is bad and I don't understand why some of you defend it.

Pseudo graphics whores.

 

[FoxMcChief]

If it means games look better, yes.

 

[Topher]

If you really want the best graphics/image quality, buy a PC.

Yep. That works too.

 

[rm082e]

If you really want the best graphics/image quality, buy a PC.

Yep. That works too.

It cuts both ways.

 

[FoxMcChief]

That's a shitty take though. Everyone has to play the game on console the way you prefer........just because? Fuck that

Yes. I know better. Console peasants will thank me in the long run.

 

[Hugare]

So your entire point consists of two games, one of them on Switch? Ok....I guess.

I was talking about the best games of all time

So yeah, only these two should be in the conversation when we are considering current gen games only. That was my point.

This is bullshit. Many of the best games and best-selling games do in fact run at 60fps. Outside of the obvious Ocarinas of times most of the classics ran at 60fps.

I suggest you to take a look at the Metacritic All Time Best games again

I think you will be surprised

 

[FoxMcChief]

I’d like to see Sony go all out with a AAA 30FPS, PS5 only game.

God damn right.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

30fps can be fine on console providing the developer does it properly. Halo, Destiny, Uncharted and basically every other game in the 360/PS3 felt fine to me. Not sure what the fuck happened over the last few years though.

Also, am I mad or did I hear John from DF talk about 'No Rest for the Wicked' having a system that separates the input so that regardless of 30 or 60fps framerate it still feels smooth? I played this on Steam Deck at 30fps and it felt great.

 

[Trogdor1123]

 

[FoxMcChief]

In other words, console gamers should just shut up and accept whatever they are given.

Now you’re getting it.

 

[Hugare]

If you want the best graphics, YOU can by a PC and IT'S been LIkE that For Years.

No shit specializeld hardware has limits. People want the frames over graphics on consoles now. New products bring new expectations (who would have thought)

New expectations = old gen looking games but now running at 60

Such high expectations

 

[Three]

Do we really need a thread for every clip from their podcast? Just have an OT for their Podcast

I wouldn't even mind a new thread for new videos but DF split their single videos into "DF Clips" then we get a thread for each "clip".

 

[FoxMcChief]

That's how polling works.



Because the devs made that choice.

You’re polling gamers that go to an enthusiast website though. So a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of gamers care about 60fps. I bet we can find 6,000 ps5 owners that lather themselves up with peanut butter and jelly while playing and think that’s the way to game.

It’s early. I need my coffee.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

Each and every one of you that says ”yes’ is going on my ignore list.

All well and good that you want 60fps. As long as you are ready to accept that graphical fidelity will be more limited on console. Its the same for PC too, cough up for higher end parts or play at lower framerates and settings.

 

[rodrigolfp]

If you really want the best graphics/image quality, buy a PC.

Yep. That works too.

This sadly doesn't work for exclusives. We have to swallow whatever the devs delivers.

 

[avin]

Series S parity constraints? Its a walking simulator. If it can run on Series S, I guarantee that some other studio more proficient with UE5, could get it running at 60fps on XSX.

I don't think that's guaranteed. It's almost the same CPU, and what you say is not true for CPU limited games. I'd instead think if they can get it to 60 on XSX, they can get it to 60 on XSS with (likely severe) graphical cuts. But for some games, it just won't be possible, on either box, in a time frame that's doable. I don't see Starfield or MSFS at 60 fps on any console, although if they recode loading for the dedicated processor on the PS5 SSD that could help load times on Starfield, possibly a lot.

avin

 

[Topher]

You’re polling gamers that go to an enthusiast website though. So a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of gamers care about 60fps.

Yeah....you are polling gamers who actually understand what is being talked about. More care about 60fps than don't care.

This sadly doesn't work for exclusives. We have to swallow whatever the devs delivers.

True, but Microsoft's games are day one on PC thankfully. Sony's are slower getting there but at least they have consistently offered performance modes. Hopefully that continues.

 

[Aenima]

Stellar blade us unreal engine game and got pretty good modes.
Not every game is bad in this regard. In stellar blade even 30fps mode is fine but I feel the performance mode shouldn't be there Balance is almost 60 and much higher res. Everyone got vrr. it's hdmi standard.
So the balance and performance mode only will result in someone picking performance mode and playing in 60fps instead of 58 but at much lower res.

Performance and Balance use the exact same native resolution on Stellar Blade. Balance mode i think uses upscaled res, but thers no graphical advantages.

Ppl have diferent TV with diferent resolutions. Having only 1 graphical setting on console would only benefit a small portion of the players. Having options allows more player to take advantage of the TV they own. I dont have a 4k tv, i dont need my games to be running at 30fps at native 4k when i could be playing at 60fps with lower resolution.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

6K votes....

Out of tens of millions of console gamers.

Ask yourself why there is no 60fps in games like Hellblade.

The only thing I am asking is why you seem to ignore that pretty much every game now has a performance mode....wouldn't it be because gamers have demanded it?

Plus, the game is owned by Microsoft, expecting them to know what gamers want is pretty rich.

 

[gothmog]

I'm not a big conspiracy guy, but it's kinda funny that right before a big 30fps game comes out that all of a sudden everyone is talking about frame rates.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

30fps can be fine on console providing the developer does it properly. Halo, Destiny, Uncharted and basically every other game in the 360/PS3 felt fine to me. Not sure what the fuck happened over the last few years though.

Also, am I mad or did I hear John from DF talk about 'No Rest for the Wicked' having a system that separates the input so that regardless of 30 or 60fps framerate it still feels smooth? I played this on Steam Deck at 30fps and it felt great.

It's simple. High refresh gaming took over. People saw the benefits of 120/144/240 and now 360 and even 500 fps in some cases.

OLED is also becoming more common and it handles 30 fps worst of all. 30 fps still sucks donkey balls no matter what display it's on, but the motion blur of LCDs help mitigate the effect ever so slightly, while OLED just feels awfully choppy.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I'm not a big conspiracy guy, but it's kinda funny that right before a big 30fps game comes out that all of a sudden everyone is talking about frame rates.

well....when else would people be talking about it?

 

[Topher]

All well and good that you want 60fps. As long as you are ready to accept that graphical fidelity will be more limited on console. Its the same for PC too, cough up for higher end parts or play at lower framerates and settings.

People having the ability to make that choice is the crux of the debate here, imo. Personally I think quality and performance modes should be standard. I have yet to see a compelling argument from anyone as to why that should not be the case.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

That's how polling works.


Because the devs made that choice.

No shit, Sherlock.

 

[gothmog]

well....when else would people be talking about it?

All the time? This isn't a new phenomenon.

 

[Topher]

No shit, Sherlock.

Ask yourself why there is no 60fps in games like Hellblade.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

It's not FPS or graphics.

Frame rate IS graphics.

 

[rofif]

Performance and Balance use the exact same native resolution on Stellar Blade. Balance mode i think uses upscaled res, but thers no graphical advantages.

Ppl have diferent TV with diferent resolutions. Having only 1 graphical setting on console would only benefit a small portion of the players. Having options allows more player to take advantage of the TV they own. I dont have a 4k tv, i dont need my games to be running at 30fps at native 4k when i could be playing at 60fps with lower resolution.

Balance mode looks much better than performance.
In fact it might also look better than quality because of less pixel shimmering. Probably due to side effect of aa used in unreal fsr

 

[Lucifers Beard]

People having the ability to make that choice is the crux of the debate here, imo. Personally I think quality and performance modes should be standard. I have yet to see a compelling argument from anyone as to why that should not be the case.

Performance and quality modes would be great in all games. I agree that choice is always best where possible and providing that the game was designed with 60fps in mind.

We need to have realistic expectations though and accept that this will come with the caveat that 60fps can only be achieved with a certain level of fidelity and that it's likely not possible in most cases to have 4K60 on a UE5 open world title with ray tracing and all settings maxed out.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

All well and good that you want 60fps. As long as you are ready to accept that graphical fidelity will be more limited on console. Its the same for PC too, cough up for higher end parts or play at lower framerates and settings.

the choppiness of 30 fps (and even 60 fps) completely ruins any graphical fidelity being gained. 30 fps may be pretty when not moving in game, but the second you start moving, any and all fideltity is gone.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

No. These devs need to take a crash course from Sony. You absolutely can have your cake and eat it too.

30fps needs to die. Its 2024 and thats the only standard that has yet to move forward.

I'd be OK with 30 fps if TV/monitor could render frames like a CRT. I stress "OK." This is where the next big TV advancement needs to come from.

 

[poodaddy]

I'd say leave in there for the folks that prefer to see the high resolutions. Options are good. But folks are going to have to explain to me why having a 60fps option for consoles is so incredibly difficult for devs. It is literally a matter of changing some settings in the game to get close to 60fps and then saving off that as a preset. Boom......performance mode.

If I can get my old RX 580 PC running Cyberpunk 2077 running at 4k and averaging about 45 fps (with low settings, ultra performance FSR, etc.) in around ten minutes then how in the world is a performance mode in these much more powerful consoles such a horribly difficult thing? I'm calling bullshit on that nonsense.

Bro this is what I've been saying! Bro!

Get em!

 

[NEbeast]

Xbox releases several 30 fps games after claiming 60 would be the standard and DF suddenly thinks 30 fps is fine, how convenient.

 

[Topher]

Performance and quality modes would be great in all games. I agree that choice is always best where possible and providing that the game was designed with 60fps in mind.

We need to have realistic expectations though and accept that this will come with the caveat that 60fps can only be achieved with a certain level of fidelity and that it's likely not possible in most cases to have 4K60 on a UE5 open world title with ray tracing and all settings maxed out.

Games are not really designed around a frame rate, but the compromises on the fidelity side are obviously a big part of performance modes. I think most understand that. If the hit to graphics is more than a person cares for then they can flip that switch back to quality mode.

 

[Crayon]

These guys are going to have their work cut out downplaying the pro. Bets are still open whether they put two playstations in with two xboxes on a fourth split screen, or decide there's not enough room now and compare it to pc only.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Food for thought. Didn't need an answer, but you know that already.

 

[Topher]

Food for thought. Didn't need an answer, but you know that already.

Well.....since I have no idea if my answer matches yours.....I offered it. Why that makes you snarky....no idea.

 

[Clear]

But am I? There's surely a reason why we're getting numerous modes and options, beyond frame rates and into accessibility. I have no doubt that publishers and studios are aware of how popular 60fps modes are. And that by including them can help to sell their game.

I know I've posted this before. But it does let me know there are others who place a lot of value in 60fps modes too.

The nature of the poll self-selects for those who care the most about frame-rates though! So its untrustworthy even before factoring in the statistical insignificance of the sample size.

If you care that much just buy a PC or otherwise get yourself into a position where you have a power surplus above target.