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[Draugoth]

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It's the impressions/reactions video you've been waiting for - and it took time because we wanted to investigate what was shown more deeply. John Linneman and Alex Battaglia share their notes on the Starfield Direct, discuss why the game is 30fps on consoles, what 4K on Series X actually means (and the implications for Series S) before moving onto the rendering tech on display and what they think about the actual game.​

• 00:00 Overview
• 00:53 Why is Starfield 30fps on consoles?
• 12:31 Visual impressions and real-time global illumination
• 17:15 Reflections and motion blur
• 23:31 Screen-space shadows and terrain rendering
• 28:06 Volumetric lighting, fog, and bokeh depth of field
• 32:40 Character rendering
• 36:01 Gameplay impressions

I'm just fast forwarding through it cause it so here's a quick-n-dirty.


- Starts with DF musings on 30 FPS target on the console and how it was likely chosen to maintain the developers visual / cohesive vision etc
- John/Alex would like to see a uncapped mode to reach the 40hz target. They deemed it's likely CPU bound
- One shot shows 1296p with FSR2 style up-scaling to 4K, making it look 'rather crisp'

- DF thinks Star Citizen is a more closer comparison than No Man's Sky
- They use Star Citizen to highlight the CPU bottlenecks a big game like this can cause
- DF fully expects 30 FPS to become the common target going forward as the cross-gen period ends.

- DF calls Starfield "Bethesda's first truly beautiful game".
- Real time GI is praised.
- DF did not notice any SSR or RT reflections, but instead they spotted real time cube maps for reflections
- DF thinks it's preferable to SSR because of the typical SSR occlusions.
- DF gives examples of games like GT7 and Forza Motorsport as games which use cube-maps in real time

- This is the first Bethesda RPG that adds per-pixel and per-object motion blur. Todd mentioned that ID Software helped with this.
- DF praises the look and feel of the guns and combat in the trailer.
- Another first-time for the Gamebryo engine is Screen Space Shadows.
- The game is using a lot of tried-and-true rendering techniques well, that Bethesda RPGs have not used before.

- Ground detail is "really high" with what looks like hardware based tessellation
- Praise on the light scatter model used on clouds and the height and valley fog, they liken it to Horizon Forbidden West.
- They use example of Halo: Infinite where the lack of height and valley fog and shadows makes it look flat.
- Bokeh depth of field and it's cinematic use praised
- Stilted animations of the one-to-one dialogue scenes 'doesn't work out too well'
- Facial animations are also "not awesome"

- DF cites the gun play looking good in both first and third person
- Musings on the RPG mechanics and how the UI relates information to the player
- They like how the world info is relayed but not big fans of the 'XP earned' pop-ups on enemies killed
- More musings on exploration, galaxy map, gaining resources etc and that it has high potential

- DF not fans of the 'No Man's Sky' comparison because of different focus on what the games are (open sandbox vs story based RPG)
- DF thinks both are their own unique things

- "Will women love me and men want to be me because I played Starfield" - Alex

 

[N30RYU]

No... I'm waiting for them to investigate a prologue

 

[DeepEnigma]

Do they mention anything about the RTGI bug/oddity?

"Our next-gen lighting model uses real time global illumination to light the world based on the type of star and the planets' atmosphere" - Todd

Paging adamsapple , you are needed to the DF ER, STAT!

 

[adamsapple]

They're talking over the entire direct

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[Portugeezer]

They're talking over the entire direct

 

[FoxMcChief]

As soon as I’m done pooping, I’ll give it a watch.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

As soon as I’m done pooping, I’ll give it a watch.

You done yet?

 

[X-Wing]

So it' upscaled 4k and not native.

 

[FoxMcChief]

You done yet?

Almost. Well, I’m done pooping, but I’m still on the pot. You know how it is, nothing like getting paid to poop on the company dime.

 

[FoxMcChief]

So it' upscaled 4k and not native.

That’s how most Quality Modes handle 4k. Reconstructed or whatever. It’s just a matter how good a job the dev did with the IQ. There was a video in the recent past from DF where they went in depth on how the reconstruction method matters more than the end result of 4k, or whatever.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Almost. Well, I’m done pooping, but I’m still on the pot. You know how it is, nothing like getting paid to poop on the company dime.

 

[FoxMcChief]

 

[Salty Popsicle]

So it' upscaled 4k and not native.

Majority of games on consoles that say are running at 4K are not actually native 4K. Most recent example is Diablo IV actually only being 1260P with FSR2 making it look 4K quality.

 

[X-Wing]

That’s how most Quality Modes handle 4k. Reconstructed or whatever. It’s just a matter how good a job the dev did with the IQ. There was a video in the recent past from DF where they went in depth on how the reconstruction method matters more than the end result of 4k, or whatever.

I know that. I just thought that the 30 fps cap was to somehow allow native 4k.

 

[acm2000]

I know that. I just thought that the 30 fps cap was to somehow allow native 4k.

the game will be more cpu limited not gpu, resolution wont help there.

 

[SlimySnake]

So it' upscaled 4k and not native.

whats the internal resolution?

 

[adamsapple]

I'm just fast forwarding through it cause it so here's a quick-n-dirty.


- Starts with DF musings on 30 FPS target on the console and how it was likely chosen to maintain the developers visual / cohesive vision etc
- John/Alex would like to see a uncapped mode to reach the 40hz target. They deemed it's likely CPU bound
- One shot shows 1296p with FSR2 style up-scaling to 4K, making it look 'rather crisp'

- DF thinks Star Citizen is a more closer comparison than No Man's Sky
- They use Star Citizen to highlight the CPU bottlenecks a big game like this can cause
- DF fully expects 30 FPS to become the common target going forward as the cross-gen period ends.

- DF calls Starfield "Bethesda's first truly beautiful game".
- Real time GI is praised.
- DF did not notice any SSR or RT reflections, but instead they spotted real time cube maps for reflections
- DF thinks it's preferable to SSR because of the typical SSR occlusions.
- DF gives examples of games like GT7 and Forza Motorsport as games which use cube-maps in real time

- This is the first Bethesda RPG that adds per-pixel and per-object motion blur. Todd mentioned that ID Software helped with this.
- DF praises the look and feel of the guns and combat in the trailer.
- Another first-time for the Gamebryo engine is Screen Space Shadows.
- The game is using a lot of tried-and-true rendering techniques well, that Bethesda RPGs have not used before.

- Ground detail is "really high" with what looks like hardware based tessellation
- Praise on the light scatter model used on clouds and the height and valley fog, they liken it to Horizon Forbidden West.
- They use example of Halo: Infinite where the lack of height and valley fog and shadows makes it look flat.
- Bokeh depth of field and it's cinematic use praised
- Stilted animations of the one-to-one dialogue scenes 'doesn't work out too well'
- Facial animations are also "not awesome"

- DF cites the gun play looking good in both first and third person
- Musings on the RPG mechanics and how the UI relates information to the player
- They like how the world info is relayed but not big fans of the 'XP earned' pop-ups on enemies killed
- More musings on exploration, galaxy map, gaining resources etc and that it has high potential

- DF not fans of the 'No Man's Sky' comparison because of different focus on what the games are (open sandbox vs story based RPG)
- DF thinks both are their own unique things

- "Will women love me and men want to be me because I played Starfield" - Alex

 

[DenchDeckard]

Good lord it looks insane!

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

whats the internal resolution?

1296p was counted in one scene for Series X so approx 60% of 4k so theory says 864p for Series S

 

[Pelta88]

Upscaled 4K?

 

[yamaci17]

whats the internal resolution?

as long as its 4K output internal resolution doesn't matter much. it will have crisp 4k assets+lods+textures

4k/fsr performance often destroys/decimates native 1440p despite internal resolution being "1080p" purely because of 4K lods+assets (or whatever other bullshit they use with these upscalers that make them look so crisp)

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'm just fast forwarding through it cause it so here's a quick-n-dirty.


- Starts with DF musings on 30 FPS target on the console and how it was likely chosen to maintain the developers visual / cohesive vision etc

They got the same script, eh?

 

[Crispy Gamer]

whats the internal resolution?

1296p

 

[Insane Metal]

They're talking over the entire direct

You have *one* job, adamsapple

 

[GymWolf]

Majority of games on consoles that say are running at 4K are not actually native 4K. Most recent example is Diablo IV actually only being 1260P with FSR2 making it look 4K quality.

Too bad it looks nothing like native 4k...

 

[SlimySnake]

1296p was counted in one scene for Series X so approx 60% of 4k so theory says 864p for Series S

well, there you go. Thats why you are not getting a 60 fps patch. 1296p is only 3 million pixels. Half of that would be 1.5 million or around 900p assuming no further CPU bottlenecks.

TBH, this is a good thing. It means they pushed boundries and the game might not be poorly optimized CPU bound like we originally thought. Its just using the gpu to push visual fidelity.

Gamers should be celebrating this. And if you cant stand it, just buy a PC.

 

[Luipadre]

So it' upscaled 4k and not native.

Doesnt matter. The game looks crisp

 

[darrylgorn]

1296p

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'm a big proponent of upscaling from the 1200+ pixel range into 4K if that means higher fidelity assets on screen with a good reconstruction technique. The difference in IQ is not that noticeable at a normal viewing distance on a good 4K set.

Native is a waste of resources in current year, depending on the application.

 

[CoreyFlawless]

Do they mention anything about the RTGI bug/oddity?



Paging adamsapple , you are needed to the DF ER, STAT!

Could be another light source on the other side. Like how it gonna be with a planet with two suns? Wonder if they have that

 

[mansoor1980]

1296p at 30fps
cmon todd you can do better

 

[GymWolf]

I'm just fast forwarding through it cause it so here's a quick-n-dirty.


- Starts with DF musings on 30 FPS target on the console and how it was likely chosen to maintain the developers visual / cohesive vision etc
- John/Alex would like to see a uncapped mode to reach the 40hz target. They deemed it's likely CPU bound
- One shot shows 1296p with FSR2 style up-scaling to 4K, making it look 'rather crisp'

- DF thinks Star Citizen is a more closer comparison than No Man's Sky
- They use Star Citizen to highlight the CPU bottlenecks a big game like this can cause
- DF fully expects 30 FPS to become the common target going forward as the cross-gen period ends.

- DF calls Starfield "Bethesda's first truly beautiful game".
- Real time GI is praised.
- DF did not notice any SSR or RT reflections, but instead they spotted real time cube maps for reflections
- DF thinks it's preferable to SSR because of the typical SSR occlusions.
- DF gives examples of games like GT7 and Forza Motorsport as games which use cube-maps in real time

- This is the first Bethesda RPG that adds per-pixel and per-object motion blur. Todd mentioned that ID Software helped with this.
- DF praises the look and feel of the guns and combat in the trailer.
- Another first-time for the Gamebryo engine is Screen Space Shadows.
- The game is using a lot of tried-and-true rendering techniques well, that Bethesda RPGs have not used before.

- Ground detail is "really high" with what looks like hardware based tessellation
- Praise on the light scatter model used on clouds and the height and valley fog, they liken it to Horizon Forbidden West.
- They use example of Halo: Infinite where the lack of height and valley fog and shadows makes it look flat.
- Bokeh depth of field and it's cinematic use praised
- Stilted animations of the one-to-one dialogue scenes 'doesn't work out too well'
- Facial animations are also "not awesome"

- DF cites the gun play looking good in both first and third person
- Musings on the RPG mechanics and how the UI relates information to the player
- They like how the world info is relayed but not big fans of the 'XP earned' pop-ups on enemies killed
- More musings on exploration, galaxy map, gaining resources etc and that it has high potential

- DF not fans of the 'No Man's Sky' comparison because of different focus on what the games are (open sandbox vs story based RPG)
- DF thinks both are their own unique things

- "Will women love me and men want to be me because I played Starfield" - Alex

Dafuq is that last quote?

 

[owandeseis]

So if this monster we saw was without RT and reescalated from somewhere from 1080 to 1440p with some FSR like thing

I need to see the PC version with RT and with DLSS

 

[Luipadre]

1296p at 30fps
cmon todd you can do better

Nobody would tell that resolution based on the trailer if it wasnt for DF... It looks great and sharp and thats what matters at the end, not the numbers

 

[DeepEnigma]

Could be another light source on the other side. Like how it gonna be with a planet with two suns? Wonder if they have that

You would see the light source radiate and the shadows would then create a prism effect. Could be a bug, or not as accurate as Todd is trying to sell.

 

[yamaci17]

Doesnt matter. The game looks crisp

you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink

thousands of dumb "wE ThE NAtiVe 1440P" users on the forums being completely ignorant and oblivious that someone with a 4k screen + 1080p internal resolution gets much much better image quality, textures, LODs than them but they will shit on "muH 1296P" anyways

last of us remake on PC/PS5 looks absolutely like dogshit at "native" 1440p due to 1440p textures+lods+assets being horrible. game only shines and brightenes at 4K, whether you use fsr performance or dlss performance, doesn't matter, game

4k fsr balanced (1296p) costs almost more than 1500p+ in most cases. if they just got out and said their game just run at 1500p+ people would praise it instead (despite the said raw native 1500p would look like dogshit compared to 1296p to 4K scaling)

 

[Lone Wolf]

How many sandwiches can be on screen at once?

 

[adamsapple]

Dafuq is that last quote?

Actual quote lol, meant as a joke but still.

 

[mansoor1980]

Nobody would tell that resolution based on the trailer if it wasnt for DF... It looks great and sharp and thats what matters at the end, not the numbers

ok

 

[CoreyFlawless]

You would see the light source radiate and the shadows would then create a prism effect. Could be a bug, or not as accurate as Todd is trying to sell.

I gotcha. Guess we find out during release.

 

[GymWolf]

How many sandwiches can be on screen at once?

16x times the amount you had in fallout 4.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Pooping at work is awesome. Wish they had better toilet paper though

 

[Gudji]

How many sandwiches can be on screen at once?

1000 sandwiches, one for each planet. Gotta be peanut butter sandwiches tho, not sure the hardware can handle lettuce and tomato, gotta save them resources for the simulation.

 

[yamaci17]

Nobody would tell that resolution based on the trailer if it wasnt for DF... It looks great and sharp and thats what matters at the end, not the numbers

if it was actual 1296p (raw, output) it would look like dogshit. the reason it looks good is because they still use 4K lods+assets WHICH has their OWN rendering load (which is quite heavy) AND looks good.

people are simply too hardwired to assume things based on shader resolution. i have no idea how we can change narrative but here we are.

 

[diffusionx]

you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink

thousands of dumb "wE ThE NAtiVe 1440P" users on the forums being completely ignorant and oblivious that someone with a 4k screen + 1080p internal resolution gets much much better image quality, textures, LODs than them but they will shit on "muH 1296P" anyways

last of us remake on PC/PS5 looks absolutely like dogshit at "native" 1440p due to 1440p textures+lods+assets being horrible. game only shines and brightenes at 4K, whether you use fsr performance or dlss performance, doesn't matter, game

4k fsr balanced (1296p) costs almost more than 1500p+ in most cases. if they just got out and said their game just run at 1500p+ people would praise it instead (despite the said raw native 1500p would look like dogshit compared to 1296p to 4K scaling)

I'll keep saying this, I think it's funny how the same sorts who go on and on about the wonders of DLSS watch these videos then seethe over sub-native resolution on console.

 

[Saber]

Gonna watch, thanks.

 

[DeepEnigma]

if it was actual 1296p (raw, output) it would look like dogshit. the reason it looks good is because they still use 4K lods+assets WHICH has their OWN rendering load (which is quite heavy) AND looks good.

people are simply too hardwired to assume things based on shader resolution. i have no idea how we can change narrative but here we are.

It's the same where people were hardwired with TF count and then a certain engineer tried to explain other engineered efficiencies with the "rising tide lifts all boats." Even DF still mental gymnastics around it from time to time. Depending on the outcome.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I called it on the resolution. That explains why they can't do 60fps. If they are using reconstruction to just get to 30fps and reconstruction from as low as 1200p+... then it explains why they couldn't get this running at 60fps.

 

[yamaci17]

I'll keep saying this, I think it's funny how the same sorts who go on and on about the wonders of DLSS watch these videos then seethe over sub-native resolution on console.

%70 of the benefit comes from native res hints+buffers+assets+lods, believe me. this is why FSR 2 surprised many, they thought DLSS was doing the heavy lifting. in reality all it does in heavy lifting is that thin line reconstruction+better ghosting prevention (due to tensor cores being used for clamp). Xess, FSR2, DLSS2, all abuse native hints+buffers. it is just a clever way to stay at clean, native resolution as an output.

DF can educate some folks but they refrain from it (because it would break the magical illusion of DLSS being special sauce whereas it is not. yes, it is the whole package, but %90 of folks on the net want upscalers for clarity, and they're already used to dogshit native TAA being ghosty anyways)