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Analysis Hardware [DF] Can the Slowest PS5 SSD Upgrade Run Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart?

Loope

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At this point, you guys are only searching and searching desperately to shit on everything PS related.

cure GIF


First we had the SSD talk itself, then the speeds, then UE5 butthurt nonense, then the narrative changed to “it’s all marketing”, and were now at “but but they payed them 250 milliiieee”.
Persecution complex
 

staticshock

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Clearly the dude mixed up his words as you can see with video proof, in gameplay you get a performance hit.
Dude they are both the Editor, one is only rendering at 60%-70% screen percentage and the other is 100% fullscreen hence the FPS difference.

60% render screen resolution percentage.


100% render screen resolution percentage.

And you only prove my point, the video with the PS5 demo running in editor mode has less pixels to render and it's doing less than 30 fps. So imagine if he when into gameplay at full screen. Frame rate probably would have been @ 20 fps.
Its not about proving anyone's point its about facts. 1+1 is 2 not 22
Daniel's screen percentage was 80% but he was also on a 4k screen. So that's ~80% of 4k but it doesn't matter much because he is running in editor which is up to 2x worse performance.
Then he is also streaming without a capture card. All that compounds into what you are seeing.
Versus PS5 running a compiled build at 1440p. The demo can't even run on the PS5 in editor mode because it requires 64 GB ram for starters.
Which part of that don't you understand. He even says it in the video. "in game" means compiled build.


In the other video, the guy literally said it's Nanite data on disk in it's compressed form comes out to be 16.14GB. 16.14GB not 6.14GB and on disk not in RAM. Turn on closed caption and read what's really being said.
No he mistakenly said 16.4. He meant to say 6.14. The slides say 6.14 and he and others have comfirmed in other videos that it is 6.14. Including the full nanite breakdown he did at

SIGGRAPH 2021

Clearly some butthurt PC fanboy nonsense going on with those two videos description.

The funny thing it doesn't even mention the other stuff like textures, other meshes and audio all uncompressed in RAM.

You don't know what you are talking about, all the meshes ARE nanite. There ain't any other mesh data other than the small grass.
Secondly its also been confirmed that Valley has more texture data.
Audio? You are just making things up at this point.
 
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Loxus

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So you saying that the unreal 5 demo CANNOT run on pc with the same settings and fidelity?
No, I'm saying it would have the different performance.

Frame rate is turn off and PC specs not named. How do you know how good the PC performance is?. My guess is a similar spec PC world have worst performance and 3090 may fair better.
 
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phil_t98

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No, I'm saying it would have the different performance.

Frame rate is turn off and PC specs not named. How do you know how good the PC performance is?. My guess is a similar spec PC world have worst performance and 3090 may fair better.


But that’s a guess and we dont know how much data is streamed. Like rachet and Clank it maybe a lot less than people think. The Xbox could even run the demo as well as the ps5.

Even the slower SSD could run it exactly the same like rachet and clank has been proven here

its all guess work but my guess is we wont see the PS5 SSD maximised this gen other than super fast loading of games, for streaming the game instals would be insane in size if you think about games streaming constant 5.5gb per second. Loading of levels and loading of games is were it will be maximised
 

assurdum

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But that’s a guess and we dont know how much data is streamed. Like rachet and Clank it maybe a lot less than people think. The Xbox could even run the demo as well as the ps5.

Even the slower SSD could run it exactly the same like rachet and clank has been proven here

its all guess work but my guess is we wont see the PS5 SSD maximised this gen other than super fast loading of games, for streaming the game instals would be insane in size if you think about games streaming constant 5.5gb per second. Loading of levels and loading of games is were it will be maximised
Quantity of assets will be maximised too. I'm not talking of rendering quality but variety of texture and poly objects and so on.
 
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Rea

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we wont see the PS5 SSD maximised this gen other than super fast loading of games, for streaming the game instals would be insane in size if you think about games streaming constant 5.5gb per second. Loading of levels and loading of games is were it will be maximised
This whole gen? Until ps6? You're underestimating the games' developers so much, especially Sony's 1st party.
Also streaming data has nothing to do with games sizes. Datas in rams and caches are constantly writing, reading and deleting all the time. The same databases are constantly streaming in and out. Now oodle kraken is improving so much that you won't see massive game sizes but you will see more enriched, more detailed worlds in this gen.
 

phil_t98

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This whole gen? Until ps6? You're underestimating the games' developers so much, especially Sony's 1st party.
Also streaming data has nothing to do with games sizes. Datas in rams and caches are constantly writing, reading and deleting all the time. The same databases are constantly streaming in and out. Now oodle kraken is improving so much that you won't see massive game sizes but you will see more enriched, more detailed worlds in this gen.

Not underestimating games developers at all, that’s a lot of data to move and store. People were saying when rachet preview and launch that it could only be done because of the raw speed of the ps5 SSD and we know that’s not true as the slower SSD can do it, when unreal 5 reveal happens same thing was said and again we seen demos on other hardware now running the unreal 5 engine just as well
 

assurdum

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Pc can now get faster SSD than PS5 with the 7.5gbs speed I think it is, so by that logic it can perform better if used properly
As I said if pc can have access to a similar hardware configuration to the ps5, I don't see the problem.
 
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phil_t98

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As I said if pc can have access to the same ps5 performance via a similar hardware configuration, I don't see the problem.

Also will add we dont know much data is actually being streamed, it could be even a 3.5gbs drive could run it as well but may take a second longer to just load the demo
 
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Rea

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Not underestimating games developers at all, that’s a lot of data to move and store. People were saying when rachet preview and launch that it could only be done because of the raw speed of the ps5 SSD and we know that’s not true as the slower SSD can do it, when unreal 5 reveal happens same thing was said and again we seen demos on other hardware now running the unreal 5 engine just as well
Only a handful of fanboys, not many people.
Rachet is not taxing PS5 SSD, thats already known, since DF interview with Insomniac' tech director.
Lots of data have been moving in games since ancient history. Only now then this gen, developers have been given more freedom. UE5 has greatly benefited as well due to Fast SSD since it relies heavily on disk streaming on demand.
 

skit_data

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Not underestimating games developers at all, that’s a lot of data to move and store. People were saying when rachet preview and launch that it could only be done because of the raw speed of the ps5 SSD and we know that’s not true as the slower SSD can do it, when unreal 5 reveal happens same thing was said and again we seen demos on other hardware now running the unreal 5 engine just as well
Did they really? The raw speed of the PS5 is good but nothing that special. All I saw was the talk around the I/O and dedicated compressor, because that’s where the magic happens in PS5s case and its getting used even on the slower drives. Thats where the big multiplier lies in the equation.

Sure, people confuse the I/O with the actual speed of the SSD but the SSD itself in the PS5 is not what makes it faster than most other storage.
 

phil_t98

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Only a handful of fanboys, not many people.
Rachet is not taxing PS5 SSD, thats already known, since DF interview with Insomniac' tech director.
Lots of data have been moving in games since ancient history. Only now then this gen, developers have been given more freedom. UE5 has greatly benefited as well due to Fast SSD since it relies heavily on disk streaming on demand.

Only a handful? You not seen all the threads on it and same with the unreal 5 demo. Do not get me wrong the PS5 SSD and I/O is mighty impressive but its not gonna make something that can’t be run the same on other platforms
 
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Loxus

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Dude they are both the Editor, one is only rendering at 60%-70% screen percentage and the other is 100% fullscreen hence the FPS difference.

60% render screen resolution percentage.


100% render screen resolution percentage.


Its not about proving anyone's point its about facts. 1+1 is 2 not 22
Daniel's screen percentage was 80% but he was also on a 4k screen. So that's ~80% of 4k but it doesn't matter much because he is running in editor which is up to 2x worse performance.
Then he is also streaming without a capture card. All that compounds into what you are seeing.
Versus PS5 running a compiled build at 1440p. The demo can't even run on the PS5 in editor mode because it requires 64 GB ram for starters.
Which part of that don't you understand. He even says it in the video. "in game" means compiled build.



No he mistakenly said 16.4. He meant to say 6.14. The slides say 6.14 and he and others have comfirmed in other videos that it is 6.14. Including the full nanite breakdown he did at

SIGGRAPH 2021



You don't know what you are talking about, all the meshes ARE nanite. There ain't any other mesh data other than the small grass.
Secondly its also been confirmed that Valley has more texture data.
Audio? You are just making things up at this point.
Dude, the same would apply to the PS5 demo on PC. You're clearly being selective as the screen isn't 100% being rendered either. So performance will drop as soon as they enter gameplay.

Resolution was never mentioned.
The videos was not uploaded by anyone from Epic, so I would not believe anything on screen, except for what is being said.
Channel that's talking about how to hack a game, can say anything in the description.

And if it's 6.14, it doesn't matter because it on disk. Meaning it on storage, not in RAM and compressed to boot.

When I said other meshes I meant the character model. You don't know the texture sizes in RAM.
And in the PS5 demo, it audio many different audio sounds going on, like the characters voice.

Clearly you can't compare the Valley demo to the PS5 demo.
PS5 was gameplay, the Valley demo was in editor mode.

That's where the PS5 dev kit will come in, as it has more RAM.

Imma stop replying to you because you don't understand the difference between the PS5, a Gaming PC and a Workstation.
 

Rea

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As I said if pc can have access to a similar hardware configuration to the ps5, I don't see the problem.
They won't gonna have same hardware, like ever. Consoles and PC are different platforms, especially Playstation. PC will have their own implementation such as Directxstorage api and rtx/IO. Ps5 has its own implementation and APIs and its NDA. No one knows whose implementation is better yet. But PC can always brute force.
 
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Loxus

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But that’s a guess and we dont know how much data is streamed. Like rachet and Clank it maybe a lot less than people think. The Xbox could even run the demo as well as the ps5.

Even the slower SSD could run it exactly the same like rachet and clank has been proven here

its all guess work but my guess is we wont see the PS5 SSD maximised this gen other than super fast loading of games, for streaming the game instals would be insane in size if you think about games streaming constant 5.5gb per second. Loading of levels and loading of games is were it will be maximised
It's all guesses how it will perform on other platforms also.

What others don't understand is no one never said it will not run, but will it run at the same performance?
 
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Rea

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Only a handful? You not seen all the threads on it and same with the unreal 5 demo. Do not get me wrong the PS5 SSD and I/O is mighty impressive but its not gonna make something that can’t be run the same on other platforms
UE5 is third party game engine, of course it can run across all platforms. But I won't be so sure that Spider-Man 2 or wolverine games which are PS5 exclusive with PS5 game engines will run the same on PC.
 

Snake29

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So you admit that my 16 GB system ram, Nvidia 3070 with SATA SSD no direct storage, no rtx io will in 6 months run the demo better than the super fast god tier ssd i/o PS5?

Those are your words, not mine. And are those your own system specs since someone else will experience something totally different, LIKE I SAID ALREADY MANY TIMES. You can’t claim a win for pc (since that is what you want) if none of the configurations are the same. So none one will have the same experience something every PS5 gamer will have.

You act as a fucking loser right now. I am a pc gamer myself but the PCMR clan are just some basement nerds who can’t stand that something else has some advanced tech.
 
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staticshock

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And if it's 6.14, it doesn't matter because it on disk. Meaning it on storage, not in RAM and compressed to boot.

When I said other meshes I meant the character model. You don't know the texture sizes in RAM.
And in the PS5 demo, it audio many different audio sounds going on, like the characters voice.

Clearly you can't compare the Valley demo to the PS5 demo.
PS5 was gameplay, the Valley demo was in editor mode.


That's where the PS5 dev kit will come in, as it has more RAM.

Imma stop replying to you because you don't understand the difference between the PS5, a Gaming PC and a Workstation.
You can't be this ignorant. Sorry for bothering you. Enjoy your bliss
 
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phil_t98

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UE5 is third party game engine, of course it can run across all platforms. But I won't be so sure that Spider-Man 2 or wolverine games which are PS5 exclusive with PS5 game engines will run the same on PC.

The only reason they wouldn’t run the same on pc is if they weren’t coded properly. By the time those games are released there will be much faster tech available widely in the pc world
 
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phil_t98

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It's all guesses how it will perform on other platforms also.

What others don't understand is no one never said it will not run, but will it run at the same performance?

Did you not see the unreal 5 demo thread? Plenty said it wouldn’t run on other hardware because of the PS5 SSD, again we dont know how much data was being transfers at any one time. We do know the Xbox has more grunt than the ps5 but the ps5 has the faster I/o SSD, now if the game is only streaming 3gbs then there is no reason it couldn’t run better on the series x. If its streaming at a full 5.5gbs then the Xbox may not be able to keep up
 

Rea

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The only reason they wouldn’t run the same on pc is if they weren’t coded properly. By the time those games are released there will be much faster tech available widely in the pc world
There's no such thing as coded properly or not properly. Every games is built upon on different game engines and different APIs. Some engines are more optimized on one platform than the others. Some engines favor one platform than the other. Xbox and Pc has similar API like DirectX so that PC game engines are more optimized on Xbox and PC. Its not the same story for Playstation or Nintendo, they have their own APIs. Almost all of the 1st party Playstation games are heavily optimized for PS.
In software development, faster or better hardware won't always perform better than slower hardware. It all comes to optimisation.
 

assurdum

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They won't gonna have same hardware, like ever. Consoles and PC are different platforms, especially Playstation. PC will have their own implementation such as Directxstorage api and rtx/IO. Ps5 has its own implementation and APIs and its NDA. No one knows whose implementation is better yet. But PC can always brute force.
Couldn't be the same, but Nvidia and MS working on their own solution alternative to the ps5 hardware. If you are talking about coding, well, it's a totally different matter. MS doesn't use low api access but doesn't mean cant achieve the same performance.
 
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phil_t98

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There's no such thing as coded properly or not properly. Every games is built upon on different game engines and different APIs. Some engines are more optimized on one platform than the others. Some engines favor one platform than the other. Xbox and Pc has similar API like DirectX so that PC game engines are more optimized on Xbox and PC. Its not the same story for Playstation or Nintendo, they have their own APIs. Almost all of the 1st party Playstation games are heavily optimized for PS.
In software development, faster or better hardware won't always perform better than slower hardware. It all comes to optimisation.

Of coarse things can be coded badly, if things are coded right it can maximise the platform its on and then when ported to pc a bit more coding can fully utilise that platform better. Look at the PS4 games now available on pc, you telling me with a little extra coding they couldn’t run miles better on pc than ps4
 
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Rea

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Couldn't be the same, but Nvidia and MS working on their own solution alternative to the ps5 hardware. If you are talking about coding, well, it's a totally different matter. MS doesn't use low api access but doesn't mean cant achieve the same performance.
I'm talking about hardware.
Xbox series X is more closer to the PS5 in I/O but still there missing components compared to PS5. PC can't have the same as consoles. They don't have the luxury of being consoles. My best guess is that nvidia and AMD will put extra silicons for decompression.
 
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Snake29

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Pc can now get faster SSD than PS5 with the 7.5gbs speed I think it is, so by that logic it can perform better if used properly

You can add faster speed SSD inside the PS5, so what's your point? The speed alone is not the point people trying to make but the I/O complex It has all the features on board to relieve the CPU of load, among other things.





Does your pc have this custom flash controller onboard together with the I/O unit to handle all task?
 
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phil_t98

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You can add faster speed SSD inside the PS5, so what's your point? The speed alone is not the point people trying to make but the I/O complex It has all the features on board to relieve the CPU of load, among other things.

But the PS5 isn’t designed around 7.5GBS SSD so wont utilise it properly where as the PC can,PS5 has to work around 5.5gbs recommended speed as that’s what games need to be
 

Rea

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Of coarse things can be coded badly, if things are coded right it can maximise the platform its on and then when ported to pc a bit more coding can fully utilise that platform better. Look at the PS4 games now available on pc, you telling me with a little extra coding they couldn’t run miles better on pc than ps4
Oh lord... you don't have a single clue or two. If you wants to talk about coding, you should gain some knowledge about game engines.
simon cowell facepalm GIF
 
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But the PS5 isn’t designed around 7.5GBS SSD so wont utilise it properly where as the PC can,PS5 has to work around 5.5gbs recommended speed as that’s what games need to be
Exactly.

Given the DF test with the WD SSD at 3.2 gb/s, PS5's internal at 5.5 gb/s and WD's SSD at 7 gb/s, R&C ran the exact same and the load times were literally fractions of a second part.

Even the difference between the two extremes (3.2 vs 7), it was negligible.
 

Snake29

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But the PS5 isn’t designed around 7.5GBS SSD so wont utilise it properly where as the PC can,PS5 has to work around 5.5gbs recommended speed as that’s what games need to be

The PS5 SSD chips are around the custom flash controller and are connected with the I/O Complex. It's designed around it, so adding a faster SSD (something you already can do) is also connected with the same complex. Your pc is also not designed for anything you add, since you are not even getting that speed.

Or do you think playing BF2042 on pc will use the 7.5GB/s?
 

Topher

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Exactly.

Given the DF test with the WD SSD at 3.2 gb/s, PS5's internal at 5.5 gb/s and WD's SSD at 7 gb/s, R&C ran the exact same and the load times were literally fractions of a second part.

Even the difference between the two extremes (3.2 vs 7), it was negligible.

Which tells us pretty much nothing considering we don't know the effective speed based solely on raw data drive speed.

But the PS5 isn’t designed around 7.5GBS SSD so wont utilise it properly where as the PC can,PS5 has to work around 5.5gbs recommended speed as that’s what games need to be

Why is MS bothering with DirectStorage on PC then?
 
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Snake29

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If developers want, they can test and develop their games for 7GB/s speed SSD’s on PS5. They can do that on pc to if they want, but yeah totally different since your not programming for a fixed platform.
 

phil_t98

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Which tells us pretty much nothing considering we don't know the effective speed based solely on raw data drive speed.



Why is MS bothering with DirectStorage on PC then?

Different hardware, and direct storage as you know will benefit pc games
 

Rea

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So lets get this straight, you are saying that the pc is incapable of running the ps4 games better than the ps4? Am I getting that right?
Nope! That's your assumption. I didn't make that statement. All I'm saying was, I'm not sure that, when ps5 games are built on PS5 game engine, will perform the same on PC, if PC doesn't have a solution for high speed data streaming. It won't be enough with faster SSD.
 
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phil_t98

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Nope! That's your assumption. I didn't make that statement. All I'm saying was, I'm not sure that, when ps5 games are built on PS5 game engine, will perform the same on PC, if PC doesn't have a solution for high speed data streaming. It won't be enough with faster SSD.

PC getting direct storage to, they will get faster speeds down the years. Just like the PS5 ain’t maximising the full I/O and SSD Speed right now, by the time it does the PC will have made stride to.
 
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Rea

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PC getting direct storage to, they will get faster speeds down the years. Just like the PS5 ain’t maximising the full I/O and SSD Speed right now, by the time it does the PC will have made stride to.
Direct storage is just an API, they still need hardware implementation. Even then, i wouldn't be so sure about being better than PS5's I/O. Will see about that in the future.
 
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phil_t98

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Direct storage is just an API, they still need hardware implementation. Even then, i wouldn't be so sure about being better than PS5's I/O. Will see about that in the future.

all we know so far is if you put a 3.5 gbs drive in the ps5 and a 7.5gbs they are pretty similar speeds in the console itself. What we dont know yet if we use faster SSD with the new direct storage on pc if it will make a massive difference vs a 3.5 gbs drive
 

Topher

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all we know so far is if you put a 3.5 gbs drive in the ps5 and a 7.5gbs they are pretty similar speeds in the console itself. What we dont know yet if we use faster SSD with the new direct storage on pc if it will make a massive difference vs a 3.5 gbs drive

Microsoft says DirectStorage will maximize "performance throughout the entire pipeline from NVMe drive all the way to the GPU". In that light, it seems pretty silly to focus just on the speed of the drive alone, doesn't it? Same principle applies to PS5.

 
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Snake29

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all we know so far is if you put a 3.5 gbs drive in the ps5 and a 7.5gbs they are pretty similar speeds in the console itself. What we dont know yet if we use faster SSD with the new direct storage on pc if it will make a massive difference vs a 3.5 gbs drive

It depends on the game of course, and that's what DF video is about. Rift Apart doesn't use any more bandwidth than it was developed for. Same goes for PS4 games that are developed HDDs also don't suddenly automatically start running much better just because an SSD is put in. Game objects will load faster, but it's not going to automatically look better.

So with your own post, after many pages you now come to the conclusion that it is purely game engine related. If you put a 7GB/s SSD in your PC, your games are not going to use it, they have to be programmed for it.
 

Loxus

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Did you not see the unreal 5 demo thread? Plenty said it wouldn’t run on other hardware because of the PS5 SSD, again we dont know how much data was being transfers at any one time. We do know the Xbox has more grunt than the ps5 but the ps5 has the faster I/o SSD, now if the game is only streaming 3gbs then there is no reason it couldn’t run better on the series x. If its streaming at a full 5.5gbs then the Xbox may not be able to keep up
I wasn't around back then, so I don't really know much about that discussion.

For all we know, we both could be right about our views about Unreal Engine 5. Kinda wish PC had some real realistic games. Not what we have now.