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Cyberpunk 2077 Aims To Be A “Benchmark” For The Industry Like The Witcher 3 Was, Says Level Designer

aries_71

Junior Member
Yep. Story is stellar. Everything else is sub par. Even the mod system is broken. One of the core mechanics on the RPG side.
CDPR have more shit to fix with each passing day.
What exactly is stellar with the story? I mean, it is a pretty conventional sci-fi themed story, but I don't find it very original nor is particularly well told. I keep hearing plenty of positive comments about it, though. I think I'm missing something.
 

Terenty

Member
What exactly is stellar with the story? I mean, it is a pretty conventional sci-fi themed story, but I don't find it very original nor is particularly well told. I keep hearing plenty of positive comments about it, though. I think I'm missing something.
Yeah, they just ripped off some Black Mirror episodes basically
 

tassletine

Member
It sort of is. The only real problem with the city is that it's repetitive after a while. Kudos for trying something different though.
Some of the missions are pretty well designed too. It's a real shame it falls apart constantly and the AI is shit.
 

iorek21

Member
What exactly is stellar with the story? I mean, it is a pretty conventional sci-fi themed story, but I don't find it very original nor is particularly well told. I keep hearing plenty of positive comments about it, though. I think I'm missing something.

My thoughts exactly.

The main “conflict” is basically the same shit as Arkham Knight, but with a rocker terrorist instead of a clown
 
It's not really a matter of disagreeing with ones opinion. People are free not to like any game - despite what some people might suggest. Don't enjoy Cyberpunk? No problem, sorry it wasn't for you, hope you find something better to play, no hard feelings. However, it becomes something else entirely when people are going out of their way to spread bullshit. For example, you said:

Which isn't really true at all. The conversation around the game is one of two: the first is people playing the game and wanting to discuss it, warts and all. The "distraction" part? Yeah, that's the other conversation: people peddling bullshit and lies for clicks and bandwagons, who feel the need to regurgitate the hyperbolic nonsense because it's a meme. We saw this garbage with TLOUII. It was trash then, and it's trash now. The game has bugs and glitches, no question. But you're just peddling crap - the hyperbole of the game being a non-functional two hour long cash grab with no story, no gameplay, and no redeeming qualities of any kind that's somehow worse than every game ever made before it in every definable way. That's not an opinion: that's "The Quartering" levels of fuckery. You're better than that. Want to actually discuss the game instead of posting memes? Say something meaningful, and I'd be only too happy to reply.
Where did I say it’s the worst game ever? It’s a 7/10 for me, far from the worst, but far from masterpiece and what they promised, and what lies? CDPR lied for years, No Man Sky level of bullshit, at least NMS was in a much better shape when launched.
 
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You should re-watch the 2018 gameplay video in its entirety when you have the time and laugh at all the stuff the narrator talks about that never made it in. It's a different game almost. I liked this game, but I'd love the game they were talking about.

I just did. The 2018 video and the 2019 video and this is what I found so please reply with "all the stuff" that never made it in. Apologies for sloppy formatting.

narrative driven, open world rpg

work in progress. everything you see is potentially subject to change.

character customization

less than a minute in, this is not final but a glimpse.

backstory unlocks different possibilities = dialogue choices

classless, modify it throughout the game

modified kereznekov to an implant

environment destruction check

Trauma team - nothing more than explaining who they are in the world

mature, visceral experience....explore variety of interactions with game world and people

email screen on window....pointless

gear room check

clothes rack check

increases street cred jack stat....pointless, standard change in rpgs

true to lore...check

interactive world = ads changing to show nicola worth debatable

purchase upgrade gear throughout the city...check

dystopian city, violence and oppression the norm

seamless open world, no loading screens...check

npc convos...check

flying care in city...npcs walking

enhanced crowd community city...most believable city in open world games

npcs living their lives WITHIN a full day and night cycle againi false info parroted as true

game release looks better

dialogue system the same as release

approach job from variety of angles....true and true for many, many missions in release game

random npc dialogue option included

crime scene, check

more npcs in certain areas like vik/misty area

implant purchase screen....much less info and less clear...unsure if interactive

implant scene different

scanner zoom in...check

analyze objects, weakpoints, gang affilitations...check!

fire modes nope, implant shows ammo check

illegal military grade cyberware....check

jackie new car...not in release, has a bike which is more story relevant

scav near jackies car...scripted just like every other gta world...leads to shootout after sandra mission

explore night city freely, cars bikes other types of vehicles (cut)

npc yellig at you...check

random encounters because of actions around the world...half check

jackie / militech change

assess situation...can do

dialogue gameplay driven....grab gun option

consequences could be dire...check

option to fight...sometimes in game not this scene

non-violent path opened up check...keep money check...take merch by force...check

dialogue choice how to do it before maelstrom, jackie says your call check.

environmental dialogues from V and Jackie check

In-game STREETKID option to say what the drug is...not shown in reveal

dialogue choice to fight right away....check

V draws weapon...gives infected cred chip...check

inspect items....downgraded in-game

flathead never shown as being controlled by player. changed because it wasn't fun/technical limits. same as all games.

skill checks on entrances...check skill checks for gameplay...check

trailer unlocks abilities of high level character

kereznekov shown, ricochet bullets, tech weapon penetration, smart weapons, mods for weapon customization check...

limb damage, check

42 mins in, work in progress may change over course of development

connect to network via enemy...changed

wallrunning confirmed as cut

quickhacks shown...check

royce weakspots...same as release

has consequences that ripple through the game world and your story...check


2019 Deep Dive
WORK IN PROGRESS - DOES NOT REPRESENT FINAL LOOK OF THE GAME

Solo, Netrunner "build" same as me saying "Guts build" in Dark Souls

says Pacifica is dangerous, bike or fast car preferable...no gang random gang attacks shown!

market ui changed but same idea

gang lore intros....same

Animals around town, check

Character creation: Nomad, Streetkid, Corpo PAST, special options at story junctions check

character creation same, no fixed classes same...mix and match same

UI changed

strips turrets...check

force open doors, not related to gorilla arms, grab enemies as shields...check check check

melee cyberware..check

Sasquatch hacks you....happens in game. can't remember if her or netwatch

finish or spare Sasquatch, in game

hack weights, check

hack access points..check

control over network changed to computers

quick hacks control cameras, hack training robot..unsure. nanowire now monowire hack at distance..changed to quickhacks, distraction hacks

how deal with Netwatch agent, up to you...check

choices affect world, characters, etc check


NO mention of car customization, buying apartments in either video both confirmed as cut or not in the game

My thoughts exactly.

The main “conflict” is basically the same shit as Arkham Knight, but with a rocker terrorist instead of a clown
Arkham Knight? Lol, I couldn't even boot up that piece of shit on release. Where was my "liars" outcry? Oh, right...I got a refund within a few hours on Steam.

TLOU2 is baby's first revenge tale of revenge is bad and been told countless times in books, movies and games. Red Dead 2 is lifted wholesale from decades of Westerns. See how easy this is?
 
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iorek21

Member
I just did. The 2018 video and the 2019 video and this is what I found so please reply with "all the stuff" that never made it in. Apologies for sloppy formatting.




Arkham Knight? Lol, I couldn't even boot up that piece of shit on release. Where was my "liars" outcry? Oh, right...I got a refund within a few hours on Steam.

TLOU2 is baby's first revenge tale of revenge is bad and been told countless times in books, movies and games. Red Dead 2 is lifted wholesale from decades of Westerns. See how easy this is?

Look at the executions of both TLOU2 and RDR2, then compare it to the supposedly "amazing" Cyberpunk execution.

There's your answer
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
I just did. The 2018 video and the 2019 video and this is what I found so please reply with "all the stuff" that never made it in. Apologies for sloppy formatting.

I'm only gonna skim it because I'm sure there's already a more succinct list online and I ain't got all night, but here's a few that stick out.
  • Backstory choice now 3 paths down from dozens of possible combinations, and while "different possibilities later in the game" is technically true, it's all dialogue options, most of which just provide different ways of reaching the same outcome
  • Tattoos now just a handful of presets, in fact just less of everything it seems, no starter clothing choice
  • 6 stats down to 5
  • No 3rd person cutscenes... ever, I don't think
  • No contextual takedowns that I remember
  • Scenarios like choosing whether or not Jackie will pick up the body, I rarely ever saw that kind of mission branching
  • Can't take anyone back to the apartment
  • V's megabuilding is not "a microsociety" and looking at the elevator, parts obviously didn't make it to release
  • "the most believable city in any open world to date" is, sure, marketing speak, but come on
  • Ripperdoc animations aren't exactly promised, but it's a shame there's literally one instance in the entire game of them, and it's this one
  • "cars, bikes, other types of vehicles" nope
  • "your actions directly influence your open world experience" nope
  • they clearly used to have "many" skills that could affect the world i.e. engineering but eventually stripped this back to 3 stat skill checks
  • no wallrunning/hanging
  • NPCs doing things like lifting cars to use as cover in-mission, I don't recall anything like that
  • "so many options, so many possibilities, and each will have consequences that will ripple through the game world and your story" for missions is just nonsense. The game boils down to three different prologues and a handful of different endings (which you choose at the end, they're not affected by what you do, there's just a couple that are unlocked), and everything else in-between stays almost entirely the same save for a few lines here and there.
Again, there's more that I'm missing or that are too nitpicky even for me. But it's not enough to just say "check" to something that exists in some way the final product when the final version is missing so much - sure, the game has character customisation, but so much was ripped out from what we saw. My problem isn't that they didn't deliver entire mechanics, my problem is that once upon a time, each of these mechanics was clearly more in-depth, detailed and refined, and because they tried to do a little of everything, they didn't really deliver on any of them individually.

Let's please not get into breaking down each individual point and whether you find them valid, I haven't got the energy, I'm just telling you how dozens of tiny things like this ultimately led to a bittersweet experience for me. It's about the sum of it's parts; my issue with Cyberpunk isn't one of fundamentals, it's a death by a thousand cuts. Most core components are there, it's just that so many of them have been hacked apart by time constraints. Given a while longer, this game could have been a masterpiece. Hey, it may still yet, but I doubt they'll bother re-adding most of what was removed.
 
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Look at the executions of both TLOU2 and RDR2, then compare it to the supposedly "amazing" Cyberpunk execution.

There's your answer
Ah, yeah. What an amazing example of interactive entertainment. Watching cutscene after cutscene. Did you even play CP2077? Break it down for me what's so bad about the narrative, characters and quests.

I'm only gonna skim it because I'm sure there's already a more succinct list online and I ain't got all night, but here's a few that stick out.
  • Backstory choice now 3 paths down from dozens of possible combinations, and while "different possibilities later in the game" is technically true, it's all dialogue options, most of which just provide different ways of reaching the same outcome
  • Tattoos now just a handful of presets, in fact just less of everything it seems, no starter clothing choice
  • 6 stats down to 5
  • No 3rd person cutscenes... ever, I don't think
  • No contextual takedowns that I remember
  • Scenarios like choosing whether or not Jackie will pick up the body, I rarely ever saw that kind of mission branching
  • Can't take anyone back to the apartment
  • V's megabuilding is not "a microsociety" and looking at the elevator, parts obviously didn't make it to release
  • "the most believable city in any open world to date" is, sure, marketing speak, but come on
  • Ripperdoc animations aren't exactly promised, but it's a shame there's literally one instance in the entire game of them, and it's this one
  • "cars, bikes, other types of vehicles" nope
  • "your actions directly influence your open world experience" nope
  • they clearly used to have "many" skills that could affect the world i.e. engineering but eventually stripped this back to 3 stat skill checks
  • no wallrunning/hanging
  • NPCs doing things like lifting cars to use as cover in-mission, I don't recall anything like that
  • "so many options, so many possibilities, and each will have consequences that will ripple through the game world and your story" for missions is just nonsense. The game boils down to three different prologues and a handful of different endings (which you choose at the end, they're not affected by what you do, there's just a couple that are unlocked), and everything else in-between stays almost entirely the same save for a few lines here and there.
Again, there's more that I'm missing or that are too nitpicky even for me. But it's not enough to just say "check" to something that exists in some way the final product when the final version is missing so much - sure, the game has character customisation, but so much was ripped out from what we saw. My problem isn't that they didn't deliver entire mechanics, my problem is that once upon a time, each of these mechanics was clearly more in-depth, detailed and refined, and because they tried to do a little of everything, they didn't really deliver on any of them individually.

Let's please not get into breaking down each individual point and whether you find them valid, I haven't got the energy, I'm just telling you how dozens of tiny things like this ultimately led to a bittersweet experience for me. It's about the sum of it's parts; my issue with Cyberpunk isn't one of fundamentals, it's a death by a thousand cuts. Most core components are there, it's just that so many of them have been hacked apart by time constraints. Given a while longer, this game could have been a masterpiece. Hey, it may still yet, but I doubt they'll bother re-adding most of what was removed.
Much appreciated! Yeah, the list was meant to be more detailed than "check" but I accidentally hit reply early. Some points on your list were confirmed as cut, some of what you have posted is in the game like choices actually do ripple in the world. This is proven in many ways and I've seen it myself. Whether those are "meaningful" choices is entirely up to the player. And some are also come on like a named character lifting the car in a clearly scripted boss battle. To deny their existence is flat out wrong. Saying extra dialogue choices doesn't mean anything in an rpg makes me wonder why someone would pick up a dialogue heavy rpg in the first place. I mean, you can basically level the same choice criticisms down to every choice driven game that gets trotted out in order to criticize CP2077. I can agree that they probably aimed for a more mechanics heavy, detailed game yet it was still labeled with a giant watermark and even repeated verbally two times within the first minute of the 2018 trailer and watermarked again in the 2019 Deep Dive that it's a work in progress and everything you see is subject to change. Ignoring that is just willful ignorance and disingenuous. I mean, if you don't have the energy to engage in a rundown of each individual point, perhaps stop bringing up all these "missing promised features" and telling people to re-watch the gameplay reveals.

Only reason I replied to this thread in the first place is some troll bumping a 7 months old topic for...what? Sick dunks and atta boy! acknowledgements on a game they either hate or had problems with or most likely didn't even play at all.
 
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iorek21

Member
Ah, yeah. What an amazing example of interactive entertainment. Watching cutscene after cutscene. Did you even play CP2077? Break it down for me what's so bad about the narrative, characters and quests.

Yes, I played it, you can read my review in the OT, go there and look for it if you want.
 
I sure hope not. And while we’re at it, Witcher 3 has absolutely terrible gameplay. I would not subject myself to that for dozens of hours for a story, no matter how good.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Much appreciated! Yeah, the list was meant to be more detailed than "check" but I accidentally hit reply early. Some points on your list were confirmed as cut, some of what you have posted is in the game like choices actually do ripple in the world. This is proven in many ways and I've seen it myself. Whether those are "meaningful" choices is entirely up to the player. And some are also come on like a named character lifting the car in a clearly scripted boss battle. To deny their existence is flat out wrong. Saying extra dialogue choices doesn't mean anything in an rpg makes me wonder why someone would pick up a dialogue heavy rpg in the first place. I mean, you can basically level the same choice criticisms down to every choice driven game that gets trotted out in order to criticize CP2077. I can agree that they probably aimed for a more mechanics heavy, detailed game yet it was still labeled with a giant watermark and even repeated verbally two times within the first minute of the 2018 trailer and watermarked again in the 2019 Deep Dive that it's a work in progress and everything you see is subject to change. Ignoring that is just willful ignorance and disingenuous. I mean, if you don't have the energy to engage in a rundown of each individual point, perhaps stop bringing up all these "missing promised features" and telling people to re-watch the gameplay reveals.

What would you say were choices you made that "rippled through the world and your story"? I can think of choices I made within some missions, sure - but ultimately the world itself remains unchanged as far as I can remember. An example of this not being the case would be something like Megaton in Fallout 3, where a choice you make means that a town can be completely wiped off the map. As for "my story", being affected by choices, well, as far as I can tell everyone ends up on those plastic rooftop chairs, picking between the same handful of endings, two of which (I think) are unlocked if you decide to pursue certain side quests. But all that does is unlock the option of choosing those endings, it did not feel like me helping Panam made a "ripple" through my story at all. The closest thing I can think of is Takemura, and even that simply swaps out an NPC, the scenario plays out the same.

I never said the dialogue choices didn't mean anything, I actually liked them, but that's all they are - voice lines. Usually mine boiled down to me recognising names that characters mentioned, but the conversations still played out exactly the same. Beyond the prologue, I can't think of a single time being a street kid led me down a completely different path than being a corpo. Was there a single streetkid specific mission, or even mission route, that was path-specific? Any characters only available to my path? Do the endings change in any way based on your path?

I understand that all the pre-released footage was subject to change, of course it was, but that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to be disappointed when the final product ends up worse than what is shown - I've seen plenty of really rough early footage from games that ended up more refined, and I've seen more visual downgrades than you can shake a stick at - Cyberpunk didn't have that, when I played on a beefy PC, it looked really, really nice most of the time. But the amount of game detail, depth and refinement that was either shown beforehand, or talked about in a voiceover, compared to what I got, is what disappointed me.

And no, you can have a conversation without taking an hour to boil down a list of bullet points into 20 paragraphs addressing each point - which you haven't done, I just wanted to ask in advance to not waste the time.
 
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ZehDon

Gold Member
Where did I say it’s the worst game ever? It’s a 7/10 for me, far from the worst, but far from masterpiece and what they promised, and what lies? CDPR lied for years, No Man Sky level of bullshit, at least NMS was in a much better shape when launched.
You kind of answered your own question there, friend. If you keep running off the rails with the hyperbole, you'll get replies like mine. Learn to rein it in.
 

EDMIX

Member
worst take i've seen but well it's from edmix.

??? Thats simply how I feel man and seeing many of the responses its how many people feel. I like the concept, but its clear they are having issues that teams at Ubisoft simply wouldn't have.

I don't think its that far off to say putting the writers and artist from CP2077 and the actual development team from Ubisoft would have made a better game.

Watchdogs Legions is as average as it comes lol.......yet it has better AI and actually has cop chases and solid gameplay. I don't think its that radical to believe that team would execute a better title. They had their own issues with Unity like CDPR did with Witcher 3.


Yet 1 developer learned from those issues with new hardware and here we are again with another CDPR game where the story is better then anything else with the game. I want them to do well with the series in the future, but we must be honest with their issues. What the fuck is even the point of hyping up a concept they can't even fully do? I know 100% I'm not the only one questioning why so many elements they "talk" about seem to be absent in the actual GAMEPLAY of the game. This is more then just "lore", they game simply can't just be a series of hopes and dreams, they still need actual mechanics to fully support that narrative. They are making a game about augmentation that funny enough doesn't allow you to change your hair or get tattoos afterwards.

Its like making a racing game and TALKING about tuning and customization and not allow the user to do partake in it and be like "oh its da lore doe".

Add Barbers
Add Tattoo shops
Add cosmetic arms, legs, JAWs lol (they already have theses fucking assets mind you)
Add car customization
Add ability to buy business and property


Nothing I'm saying is new, nothing I'm pointing out doesn't already exist in parts in the game. you already have cars of different colors, you already have cars of different speeds, you already have many properties completely empty as if it was in the game and scrapped to hit a date etc Keep in mind, I'm not saying this like the developer is dumb and can't do it, simply that if we already know the management is shit at CDPR, its not shocking that they are asking a team of 500 to do the work of a team of 1000. No matter how badly they want to do what is being asked, they are understaffed.

Its why I'm saying Ubisoft would do a better execution. They simply spend the money to have the staff to make the project work, even if its average. At least its a working fucking product that is offering those standard open world features. CP2077 is struggling to meet standard features from the PS2 generation at this point. You can't tell me that the management did a great job with this title for 8 years, 300 plus million, yet decided they wouldn't go past 500 developers and yet we are shocked Ubisoft pulled off SEVERAL open world games last fall. What is to even stop Ubisoft from just say "Watchdogs 4 can swap into first person and we have a smaller city"? That is already matching and beating what this team is struggling to do man. I get you like CP2077, but shit fight for it to be better then what it is vs this weird defending all theses missing features.

AV AV completely agreed with everything stated. I don't mind that something must be changed to get the game out, I have an issue at the lack of transparency of just how much shit was removed from this game. Them being sued makes me wonder, if they lied to their own investors, they could have had a plan for YEARS to just lie about features that was never going to make it in the game. For all we know the point was to snag pre-orders and be like "WORK IN PROGRESS DOE". That can only go so far, when "work in progress" becomes this excuse to basically market a completely different game then they are selling......yea someone needs to address that. I found myself playing the game realizing as I was playing how much was removed, I was like "can't wait to bribe dem cops" and then I was like "cool its raining, can't wait til the acid rain"........."its not coming is it?" lol Hours and hours going by playing it only continue to reveal just how much was removed and how different the final product is. Don't get me wrong, I love borderlands and I would buy this no issue if it was JUST marketed as that type of game, but they are telling you its this deep RPG (dear god no its fucking not, its Far Cry in the future folks) and you end up getting some Far Cry esk looter shooter skill tree type thing lol Not the worst game ever, but come the fuck on...they marketed this game to be massively different and I can't think of one game that came out in 2020 that had as much changes, removes, cut content etc.


Not 1.
 
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Warablo

Member
I mean, the world is exactly like The Witcher 3. Its just Cyberpunk is way more complex so a shit load of things to work on and iron out. New systems that have to be made.
 

harmny

Banned
??? Thats simply how I feel man and seeing many of the responses its how many people feel. I like the concept, but its clear they are having issues that teams at Ubisoft simply wouldn't have.

I don't think its that far off to say putting the writers and artist from CP2077 and the actual development team from Ubisoft would have made a better game.

Watchdogs Legions is as average as it comes lol.......yet it has better AI and actually has cop chases and solid gameplay. I don't think its that radical to believe that team would execute a better title. They had their own issues with Unity like CDPR did with Witcher 3.


Yet 1 developer learned from those issues with new hardware and here we are again with another CDPR game where the story is better then anything else with the game. I want them to do well with the series in the future, but we must be honest with their issues. What the fuck is even the point of hyping up a concept they can't even fully do? I know 100% I'm not the only one questioning why so many elements they "talk" about seem to be absent in the actual GAMEPLAY of the game. This is more then just "lore", they game simply can't just be a series of hopes and dreams, they still need actual mechanics to fully support that narrative. They are making a game about augmentation that funny enough doesn't allow you to change your hair or get tattoos afterwards.

Its like making a racing game and TALKING about tuning and customization and not allow the user to do partake in it and be like "oh its da lore doe".

Add Barbers
Add Tattoo shops
Add cosmetic arms, legs, JAWs lol (they already have theses fucking assets mind you)
Add car customization
Add ability to buy business and property


Nothing I'm saying is new, nothing I'm pointing out doesn't already exist in parts in the game. you already have cars of different colors, you already have cars of different speeds, you already have many properties completely empty as if it was in the game and scrapped to hit a date etc Keep in mind, I'm not saying this like the developer is dumb and can't do it, simply that if we already know the management is shit at CDPR, its not shocking that they are asking a team of 500 to do the work of a team of 1000. No matter how badly they want to do what is being asked, they are understaffed.

Its why I'm saying Ubisoft would do a better execution. They simply spend the money to have the staff to make the project work, even if its average. At least its a working fucking product that is offering those standard open world features. CP2077 is struggling to meet standard features from the PS2 generation at this point. You can't tell me that the management did a great job with this title for 8 years, 300 plus million, yet decided they wouldn't go past 500 developers and yet we are shocked Ubisoft pulled off SEVERAL open world games last fall. What is to even stop Ubisoft from just say "Watchdogs 4 can swap into first person and we have a smaller city"? That is already matching and beating what this team is struggling to do man. I get you like CP2077, but shit fight for it to be better then what it is vs this weird defending all theses missing features.

AV AV completely agreed with everything stated. I don't mind that something must be changed to get the game out, I have an issue at the lack of transparency of just how much shit was removed from this game. Them being sued makes me wonder, if they lied to their own investors, they could have had a plan for YEARS to just lie about features that was never going to make it in the game. For all we know the point was to snag pre-orders and be like "WORK IN PROGRESS DOE". That can only go so far, when "work in progress" becomes this excuse to basically market a completely different game then they are selling......yea someone needs to address that. I found myself playing the game realizing as I was playing how much was removed, I was like "can't wait to bribe dem cops" and then I was like "cool its raining, can't wait til the acid rain"........."its not coming is it?" lol Hours and hours going by playing it only continue to reveal just how much was removed and how different the final product is. Don't get me wrong, I love borderlands and I would buy this no issue if it was JUST marketed as that type of game, but they are telling you its this deep RPG (dear god no its fucking not, its Far Cry in the future folks) and you end up getting some Far Cry esk looter shooter skill tree type thing lol Not the worst game ever, but come the fuck on...they marketed this game to be massively different and I can't think of one game that came out in 2020 that had as much changes, removes, cut content etc.


Not 1.

it's not that they are having issues that ubisoft wouldn't have. you are literally failing to understand what the game is by dismissing its most important aspect. you said the story (And the quests for that matter) was the best part of the game but then said that this is a game not a book so making a good story is an excuse that is already getting old. what is that ridiculous take? the game is the story. the team spent all their resources making the quests. this is a narrative driven game. you cannot dismiss the thing they worked on the most just like it's nothing. good narrative is a very difficult thing to do. and it's not only the writers that make that happen. the entire team works on that. there are many critically acclaimed games that are mostly focused on the story.

sure watchdogs 1 has all that. but watch dogs has a piece of shit story and awful quests. and legion has even better simulation but even worse narrative. when you look at a game you need to look at what the game is trying to do. that is like playing disco elysium and saying sure the dialogue is nice but the game has no combat so the game is crap. you cannot divorce one thing from the other. it's not that ubisoft made a better world with watch dogs. the thing is they focused on the world instead of focusing on the narrative. and cyberpunk focuses on the narrative side instead of focusing on open world interactivity/simulation.

you are meant to do quests and experience stories. the game was not created as a sandbox where you buy property and play golf. they were pretty clear about that and i don't get why it's so hard to understand. this is not a matter of lets use the team from ubisoft and add cdpr's writers. the game is fundamentally different. the design is different. the priorities of the team are entirely different. i get that you wanted cyberpunk life simulator and now you are dissapointed. but if you want a ubisoft game play a ubisoft game. this is basically the witcher 3 in a cyberpunk setting with improved combat and mobility and that's great for a lot of us. everything else is just a plus not a necessity.
 
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What exactly is stellar with the story? I mean, it is a pretty conventional sci-fi themed story, but I don't find it very original nor is particularly well told. I keep hearing plenty of positive comments about it, though. I think I'm missing something.
I dunno. I just said that to not get tombstoned by the Cyberpunk defenders 🤣
Ah shit. Look what you made me do now, I've blown my cover.
 
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EDMIX

Member
it's not that they are having issues that ubisoft wouldn't have.

Their AI is horrid, the lack of car chases very much has to do with that as its clear they are struggling with many mechanics.

So just stop man. They are having issues that UBISOFT DOESN'T FUCKING HAVE.





They cut and don't have features that Watchdogs 1 circa 2013 has.....

you said the story (And the quests for that matter) was the best part of the game

By default of everything else being so bad....that doesn't mean thats what I want from the game, as if we should just ignore how poorly the narrative is coming across about a game about augmentation lacking so many features to actually do to the character like tattoos or hair styles. Liking the story, doesn't mean I like the narrative's direction or lack of one in the actual world in terms of gameplay. We still PLAY games. This isn't a book.

but then said that this is a game not a book so making a good story is an excuse that is already getting old

Nah. Nothing is wrong with a good story, simply that the game still fucking needs to be A GAME. The concept still needs to WORK in the game world with the story they are telling. So this makes a better story for a show or a movie then it does a game because of the bad execution.

This person has less time to live, yet does a bunch of side missions disregarding this claim of this urgency.

The story tells of a world of augmentation that you see MORE then you partake in as for what ever reason, barbers, tattoo shops etc don't exist in the future.... This is where I'm getting at that this is a game, its not a fucking book. That is ok to tell.....but when someone is playing a video game, it makes little sense to lack THAT much features to the point of hurting the very narrative trying to be told about this world. It as if what the story is saying seems to only apply conceptually and not literally in the world. Either that or so much was stripped from the game, at one point that shit was in the world and the story was referring to things you literally could do. Yet when stripped and removed, it starts to make less sense..

this is a narrative driven game.

Yet that is the area it fails at a ton. Drive that narrative home with actually making those gameplay mechanics support that concept. Stop TELLING us about shit in the world and actually allow the player to do those things. In GTA SA they didn't just fucking "tell" you CJ was in a gang, you did gang activity to drive home that narrative. He tagged walls, did drive by shootings, recruited gang members, robbed homes etc. The game didn't just fucking TELL YOU he was something and proceed to ignore it as a feature in the game world, it continued to support this is who we was by how he dressed, who he shot at, the tattoos that he got etc.

Narrative isn't simply about saying something in a story, allow the narrative to be supported thru gameplay. CP2077 just does an awful job at this as they seem like they simply want a cut-scene to say something vs allow the world and its features to display it thru real interactions.

legion has even better simulation but even worse narrative.

Yet the actual fucking narrative is supported thru the actions of the player and the AI around the player. The story might be "meh", but the execution makes sense. As to why I stated Ubisoft would make a better game in terms of those mechanics and CP would just have the artist, writers.

So no matter how you feel about that series, the point is simple. They have a story, idea, narrative and the gameplay supports those concepts. They don't just fucking tell you about how bad and evil the police and government are and proceed to have you roam a fucking game world with police so dumb, they can't drive cars and then be like "man look how dangerous day be" (10/10 story, deep narrative /s) What ever legions is going for they've been able to pull it off. It might be meh to me, but its clear what the story is and what the gameplay is supports what the team wanted comparied to CP2077 where you have a story that doesn't fit the actual shit really going on in the world.

the game was not created as a sandbox where you buy property

Yea cause that was cut so....=)

https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/cyberpunk-2077-purchase-homes/

The game "was" actually going to be that before all the cuts so...... yea.


this is not a matter of lets use the team from ubisoft and add cdpr's writers.

Nah its very much that simple. One publisher has done this concept many times, another is now being sued for lying to investors by misleading them, something they also did to consumers with all the content they omitted to the public was completely removed. So.... its clear we are not talking about the same teams, but 1 of theses teams has done this more and clear without all this removed shit and struggling to meet PS2 GTA AI or something. So yea, it is that simple.

the game is fundamentally different.

Yea, it doesn't have cop chases cause the AI is too dumb. That would make sense for Ubisoft to handle as they are not struggling with that shit, CDPR is.....



the priorities of the team are entirely different

Yup. Ubisoft is focused on making a working playable game and not lying to fans and investors and actually spent their money on the game.

i get that you wanted cyberpunk life simulator

Nope. I wanted to be the very game they marketed to folks vs the lies and misleading and lack of transparency. I wanted a working game with concepts that fit and make sense. I wanted what they told us they could do...... I have no issue with the game as it is if they NEVER marketed to be what they've been saying for years all while staying silent about so much cut content. Its not like I hate Borderlands or something, but they are not marketing to be some next generation of open world design or something.

.
if you want a ubisoft game play a ubisoft game.
??? Off topic and irrelevant, I didn't even fucking buy Watchdogs Legions, stop taking this shit so personal. The example was simply used because they made several open world games last year and didn't deal with fraction of the issues this team is dealing with.

this is basically the witcher 3 in a cyberpunk setting

I don't disagree with you, but maybe they should have been more upfront and clear with people on that instead of all the hyperbole and bs the put in the marketing. Its clear CDPR didn't just go out telling folks that this is just "Witcher 3 but in da Cyberpunk". So maybe they should have not been talking about advance AI and bribing cops and all this shit they clearly can't really do.
 
What exactly is stellar with the story? I mean, it is a pretty conventional sci-fi themed story, but I don't find it very original nor is particularly well told. I keep hearing plenty of positive comments about it, though. I think I'm missing something.
I think it’s not the story but the way it’s told, the relationship building with certain characters is probably the best I’ve seen in a video game in terms of making them feel like real people you’ve built a relationship with. The actual story itself is fine - nothing groundbreaking
 

harmny

Banned
Their AI is horrid, the lack of car chases very much has to do with that as its clear they are struggling with many mechanics.

So just stop man. They are having issues that UBISOFT DOESN'T FUCKING HAVE.





They cut and don't have features that Watchdogs 1 circa 2013 has.....



By default of everything else being so bad....that doesn't mean thats what I want from the game, as if we should just ignore how poorly the narrative is coming across about a game about augmentation lacking so many features to actually do to the character like tattoos or hair styles. Liking the story, doesn't mean I like the narrative's direction or lack of one in the actual world in terms of gameplay. We still PLAY games. This isn't a book.



Nah. Nothing is wrong with a good story, simply that the game still fucking needs to be A GAME. The concept still needs to WORK in the game world with the story they are telling. So this makes a better story for a show or a movie then it does a game because of the bad execution.

This person has less time to live, yet does a bunch of side missions disregarding this claim of this urgency.

The story tells of a world of augmentation that you see MORE then you partake in as for what ever reason, barbers, tattoo shops etc don't exist in the future.... This is where I'm getting at that this is a game, its not a fucking book. That is ok to tell.....but when someone is playing a video game, it makes little sense to lack THAT much features to the point of hurting the very narrative trying to be told about this world. It as if what the story is saying seems to only apply conceptually and not literally in the world. Either that or so much was stripped from the game, at one point that shit was in the world and the story was referring to things you literally could do. Yet when stripped and removed, it starts to make less sense..



Yet that is the area it fails at a ton. Drive that narrative home with actually making those gameplay mechanics support that concept. Stop TELLING us about shit in the world and actually allow the player to do those things. In GTA SA they didn't just fucking "tell" you CJ was in a gang, you did gang activity to drive home that narrative. He tagged walls, did drive by shootings, recruited gang members, robbed homes etc. The game didn't just fucking TELL YOU he was something and proceed to ignore it as a feature in the game world, it continued to support this is who we was by how he dressed, who he shot at, the tattoos that he got etc.

Narrative isn't simply about saying something in a story, allow the narrative to be supported thru gameplay. CP2077 just does an awful job at this as they seem like they simply want a cut-scene to say something vs allow the world and its features to display it thru real interactions.



Yet the actual fucking narrative is supported thru the actions of the player and the AI around the player. The story might be "meh", but the execution makes sense. As to why I stated Ubisoft would make a better game in terms of those mechanics and CP would just have the artist, writers.

So no matter how you feel about that series, the point is simple. They have a story, idea, narrative and the gameplay supports those concepts. They don't just fucking tell you about how bad and evil the police and government are and proceed to have you roam a fucking game world with police so dumb, they can't drive cars and then be like "man look how dangerous day be" (10/10 story, deep narrative /s) What ever legions is going for they've been able to pull it off. It might be meh to me, but its clear what the story is and what the gameplay is supports what the team wanted comparied to CP2077 where you have a story that doesn't fit the actual shit really going on in the world.



Yea cause that was cut so....=)

https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/cyberpunk-2077-purchase-homes/

The game "was" actually going to be that before all the cuts so...... yea.




Nah its very much that simple. One publisher has done this concept many times, another is now being sued for lying to investors by misleading them, something they also did to consumers with all the content they omitted to the public was completely removed. So.... its clear we are not talking about the same teams, but 1 of theses teams has done this more and clear without all this removed shit and struggling to meet PS2 GTA AI or something. So yea, it is that simple.



Yea, it doesn't have cop chases cause the AI is too dumb. That would make sense for Ubisoft to handle as they are not struggling with that shit, CDPR is.....





Yup. Ubisoft is focused on making a working playable game and not lying to fans and investors and actually spent their money on the game.



Nope. I wanted to be the very game they marketed to folks vs the lies and misleading and lack of transparency. I wanted a working game with concepts that fit and make sense. I wanted what they told us they could do...... I have no issue with the game as it is if they NEVER marketed to be what they've been saying for years all while staying silent about so much cut content. Its not like I hate Borderlands or something, but they are not marketing to be some next generation of open world design or something.

.

??? Off topic and irrelevant, I didn't even fucking buy Watchdogs Legions, stop taking this shit so personal. The example was simply used because they made several open world games last year and didn't deal with fraction of the issues this team is dealing with.



I don't disagree with you, but maybe they should have been more upfront and clear with people on that instead of all the hyperbole and bs the put in the marketing. Its clear CDPR didn't just go out telling folks that this is just "Witcher 3 but in da Cyberpunk". So maybe they should have not been talking about advance AI and bribing cops and all this shit they clearly can't really do.


Worst take I've seen 2.0. but I won't repeat myself especially not for you.
 
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Woggleman

Member
People can get into the technicalities and everything all they want but the only game this year that had me this hooked and engrossed in it was TLOU2 and at the end of the day that is what truly matters. GTA V and Watch Dogs can have the most advanced peds ever created but the games just don't do much for me. Not when Jackie and Judy are better than all the characters in GTA V put together.
 

EDMIX

Member
Worst take I've seen 2.0. but I won't repeat myself especially not for you.

? stop taking everything so personal man.

Watchdogs has trains, smart AI and car chases.....

Its not a massive stretch to say that team clearly knows how to implement those features in a open world and CDPR can't atm or doesn't have the resources, support etc.
 
Cyberpunk is a good game with flaws and all. And this is no bullshit.

I managed 55 hours and max character level 50 as a netrunner before PSN pulled my copy of the game and they have issued the refund. I'm just waiting for the money to reflect in my bank account.
But I enjoyed those 55 hours despite my Pro crashing on me almost every 30 minutes. I got very much used to seeing that blue screen so much that now when I play Division 2, I expect it to crash on me lol.
I genuinely like the story and love the side quests more. The gunplay is awesome and love the different cybermods you can get. I think this makes it more exciting than the regular clothing and weapon mods.
The open world and AI is serviceable.

Going to open up my Pro today and inspect for any blocked vents due to dust cause other Pro users don't experience as many crashes as I do.
 
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EDMIX

Member
Cyberpunk is a good game with flaws and all. And this is no bullshit.

I managed 55 hours before PSN pulled my copy of the game and they have issued the refund. I'm just waiting for the money to reflect in my bank account.
But I enjoyed those 55 hours despite my Pro crashing on me almost every 30 minutes. I got very much used to seeing that blue screen so much that now when I play Division 2, I expect it to crash on me lol.
I genuinely like the story and love the side quests more. The gunplay is awesome and love the different cybermods you can get. I think this makes it more exciting than the regular clothing and weapon mods.
The open world and AI is serviceable.

Going to open up my Pro today and inspect for any blocked vents due to dust cause other Pro users don't experience as many crashes as I do.

True. I was ok with it as a borderlands type looter shooter game. I'll return to it later next year after this whole mess is figured out as I don't feel any of us got a real complete game as suppose to some early access title.

My Pro crashed a lot with this game, the 40 hours I put in, 20 plus crashes. It was like clock work lol.
 
True. I was ok with it as a borderlands type looter shooter game. I'll return to it later next year after this whole mess is figured out as I don't feel any of us got a real complete game as suppose to some early access title.

My Pro crashed a lot with this game, the 40 hours I put in, 20 plus crashes. It was like clock work lol.
Yep. Its probably also for the good that I just started Act 2 so there's still a decent chunk of the game left to play. Now that my PS refund has gone through, I will pick up and continue this game on PC later this year.
By that time some of the issues will have been sorted out.
Also I'm ok with this as an 'early access' title if it didn't crash so much.

My PS4 Pro fans would go crazy (max RPM) and then it would crash but it crashed more frequently when I was roaming around Night City's central areas. When I was out in the badlands or anywhere away from the city, the game would run without issue and crash like every 3 hours or so.
 
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