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[Self]

Witcher 3 was a benchmark? In what specific areas? Honestly I don't know what they imply here.

I can understand that people liked the narrative and storytelling, but apart form that... urgh.

 

[channie]

This has poorly aged

 

[mr.dilya]

They failed at that goal.

 

[AllyITA]

Is there any possibility you could maybe prove you've played it? Where did you play it? Do you have a Steam name, PSN, something? Can we see your achievements/trophies? This all reads like you haven't actually played the game. Like, dude, let's say I've got a mission to assassinate someone, he's in the second floor of a building in a locked room... I can literally use my hacking skill to murder him without ever entering the building.

Here's a video of mine, look at the size of this place, the number of options available and it's just a Gig... it's completely missable content, in the games we mentioned something this complex would be a mandatory piece of game to play in a session to complete it...

not the point of the discussion, but:
no killing?
you take down everybody, maybe with no lethal kills, but still.. you shoot most of them.


this part of the game is stupid, there's no difference between killing and take down.

 

[channie]

not the point of the discussion, but:
no killing?
you take down everybody, maybe with no lethal kills, but still.. you shoot most of them.


this part of the game is stupid, there's no difference between killing and take down.

Yeah it's a shame they don't support ghosting game-wide.

 

[ethomaz]

So they failed miserably?

It is indeed a case of study of what avoid in the game industry.

 

[ethomaz]

Definitively a benchmark.

 

[ethomaz]

You just described Cyberpunk 2077.

Wut?

 

[Explosive Zombie]

not the point of the discussion, but:
no killing?
you take down everybody, maybe with no lethal kills, but still.. you shoot most of them.


this part of the game is stupid, there's no difference between killing and take down.

I put a mod on my gun that makes it non-lethal. If you go up to the guys you've shot down you'll see they're still riding on the ground.

 

[Kadayi]

Some serious thread necromancy going on here.

Doom Patrol looking for excuses

GHG

10 hours.....and you're going to tell us who've racked up hundreds how it really is?

 

[Magog.]

They should have taken all the GOG money and spent it on hiring an outside AI team and some people who understood and had experience with open world mechanics.

 

[GHG]

Doom Patrol looking for excuses

GHG

10 hours.....and you're going to tell us who've racked up hundreds how it really is?

Read the post. The save files have the time stamps you're looking for.

 

[aries_71]

This makes me sad. I believed it so. I wanted them to succeed.

Now look at it.

 

[harmny]

they succeeded in many ways. it will be a benchmark for the industry. for the good things and the bad things. but mostly the good things

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Oh yeah for further clarification since I realized telling you I put on non-lethal mod on a gun still makes it sound too easy to go non-lethal in this game I should clarify that it took me many attempts to get that section right in my recording because it's actually rather easy to kill someone with a non-lethal gun basically the health bar represents how long until an enemy will go into a down state so the reason I'm only tapping the trigger so often is because if you fire another bullet into them after that health bar goes down sometimes you kill them. They were other attempts where I killed people this way and failed the optional objective.

 

[Kadayi]

Read the post. The save files have the time stamps you're looking for.

I suppose your achievements were bugged as well? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Neo Blaster]

But it already is a benchmark...of how NOT to release a game.

 

[Woman7]

I wish them ALL the best and I think they can pull it off. Not just because of the huge pool of talent there, but they have proven to work hard on released games and have the passion to pull it off!

 

[GHG]

I suppose your achievements were bugged as well? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So you didn't read the post. Do you understand how steam operates when you make modifications to a game?

I was 10 hours in when I did this:

Did CDPR just...massively tank PC performance because of one wrong config file?

People claims even 50% more FPS and much more stable framerate too... idk what to say anymore.

www.neogaf.com

But hey, if you want to believe that I'm fabricating the amount of time I've spent with the game and ignore the time stamps on my save files so that you can handwave my opinions on the game then go ahead.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Doom Patrol looking for excuses

GHG

10 hours.....and you're going to tell us who've racked up hundreds how it really is?

I dunno. I agree with GHG and I actually like the game. But just because I like it, quite a lot actually, doesn't discredit the very real criticisms. And what GHG said is pretty spot on in my opinion.

 

[Reckheim]

I'd say the PC version is already a benchmark.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I dunno. I agree with GHG and I actually like the game. But just because I like it, quite a lot actually, doesn't discredit the very real criticisms. And what GHG said is pretty spot on in my opinion.

As someone who loves all the games he compared it to besides Hitman I don't really get it. You guys really don't believe the level designs are within the same ballpark as these games?

 

[Magog.]

I'd say the PC version is already a benchmark.

For graphics but not for anything else. The life paths were a joke along with the other choices and the AI is non-existent.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

For graphics but not for anything else. The life paths were a joke along with the other choices and the AI is non-existent.

This is about level design.

 

[Terenty]

As someone who loves all the games he compared it to besides Hitman I don't really get it. You guys really don't believe the level designs are within the same ballpark as these games?

Ofcourse not, its in the ballpark of Invisible War.

Here's a door you need 10 in body to open, but also here's a hole in the fence 2 metres away you don't need any skills here and here's an open window you don't need any skills here too etc. The level design is very repetitive and obvious and always trivialises any skill investments.

 

[GHG]

As someone who loves all the games he compared it to besides Hitman I don't really get it. You guys really don't believe the level designs are within the same ballpark as these games?

If you play those games by rushing from waypoint marker to waypoint marker without exploring the environments, using the various tools/abilities at your disposal and thinking outside the box then yeh I can see how you might arrive at that conclusion.

Cyberpunk is a lot of things but a systems heavy sandbox it is not. Even Watch Dogs Legion does a better job of that.

 

[Krappadizzle]

As someone who loves all the games he compared it to besides Hitman I don't really get it. You guys really don't believe the level designs are within the same ballpark as these games?

I'm conflicted, I love the city, think it's gorgeous and just plain fun to explore, but when you start getting down to the missions, they feel like they got halfway to the finish line and then stopped. There really is only like 3 way to complete any given mission and even then, it's usually just hack or shoot or some combination thereof. You can stealth, but it feels more like an afterthought or byproduct of the other systems as opposed to being a purposefully designed avenue of approach. It feels like it was trying to go the Deus Ex/Dishonored route, but realized that the scale they set for themselves wouldn't make it realistic to actually accomplish this task so they kind of just half-designed it to kind of limp it's way there.

Again, I DO like this game. A lot in fact, I'd say I'm probably a bigger fan than most, but I do think it has it's issues and I am disappointed that it didn't really do what it intended to do. You can check pretty much every thread about CP2077 of the last 4 years here on GAF and you'll probably see me chiming in championing the game. I've loved CDPR as dev since Witcher 1 and have loved watching them grow and make some of my favorite games in the fantasy RPG genre. But they really should have just delayed the game until they had a clearer idea what they wanted it to be. It's pretty clear they were kind of throwing stuff at the wall and hoping most/some of it sticks/works.

 

[R6Rider]

I'd say the PC version is already a benchmark.

The versions of the game don't have different level design lol

 

[SafeOrAlone]

Yeah, it's somewhat impressive to look down several stories below and know you can get down there, but it would really be special if you could hightail it out of a gunfight, drop those three stories below (with upgraded legs for fall damage, of course) and look up to see three cyber-enhanced asshole leap off after you in pursuit, allowing the world to become a playground instead of a museum.

Hell, let's get some hovrbike cop enemies to actually pursue us through those winding city streets. Right now there is so much potential in the level design but when I step into a bar and see cool Kojima chillin out, I'm eerily reminded of an old Phantom Pain.

 

[Fuz]

Witcher 3 was a benchmark? In what specific areas?

All of them.

 

[Reckheim]

The versions of the game don't have different level design lol

My bad, probably should of read the op better.

 

[ethomaz]

As someone who loves all the games he compared it to besides Hitman I don't really get it. You guys really don't believe the level designs are within the same ballpark as these games?

One side has smart, exploreable and unpredictable level design that makes you think about... the other the opposite... the simple, obvious and predictable level design that you don't need think about it.

Cyberpunk has lot of things better than these games listed but level design is not one of them.

 

[harmny]

I'm conflicted, I love the city, think it's gorgeous and just plain fun to explore, but when you start getting down to the missions, they feel like they got halfway to the finish line and then stopped. There really is only like 3 way to complete any given mission and even then, it's usually just hack or shoot or some combination thereof. You can stealth, but it feels more like an afterthought or byproduct of the other systems as opposed to being a purposefully designed avenue of approach. It feels like it was trying to go the Deus Ex/Dishonored route, but realized that the scale they set for themselves wouldn't make it realistic to actually accomplish this task so they kind of just half-designed it to kind of limp it's way there.

Again, I DO like this game. A lot in fact, I'd say I'm probably a bigger fan than most, but I do think it has it's issues and I am disappointed that it didn't really do what it intended to do. You can check pretty much every thread about CP2077 of the last 4 years here on GAF and you'll probably see me chiming in championing the game. I've loved CDPR as dev since Witcher 1 and have loved watching them grow and make some of my favorite games in the fantasy RPG genre. But they really should have just delayed the game until they had a clearer idea what they wanted it to be. It's pretty clear they were kind of throwing stuff at the wall and hoping most/some of it sticks/works.

i don't think stealth feels like an afterthought at all. i think it feels better than most open world rpg i've played. especially when you get double jump. of course if you compare it to games that purely focus on stealth it won't be as fleshed out.

 

[ethomaz]

I'm conflicted, I love the city, think it's gorgeous and just plain fun to explore, but when you start getting down to the missions, they feel like they got halfway to the finish line and then stopped. There really is only like 3 way to complete any given mission and even then, it's usually just hack or shoot or some combination thereof. You can stealth, but it feels more like an afterthought or byproduct of the other systems as opposed to being a purposefully designed avenue of approach. It feels like it was trying to go the Deus Ex/Dishonored route, but realized that the scale they set for themselves wouldn't make it realistic to actually accomplish this task so they kind of just half-designed it to kind of limp it's way there.

Again, I DO like this game. A lot in fact, I'd say I'm probably a bigger fan than most, but I do think it has it's issues and I am disappointed that it didn't really do what it intended to do. You can check pretty much every thread about CP2077 of the last 4 years here on GAF and you'll probably see me chiming in championing the game. I've loved CDPR as dev since Witcher 1 and have loved watching them grow and make some of my favorite games in the fantasy RPG genre. But they really should have just delayed the game until they had a clearer idea what they wanted it to be. It's pretty clear they were kind of throwing stuff at the wall and hoping most/some of it sticks/works.

It feels rushed... they just doesn't have enough time to work in better level design to reach what they probably wanted.
CDPR was dead set in 2020 release at any cost.

 

[TheDreadLord]

The game gives a good initial impression. The issue is that after a while the city becomes completely soulless. I just don’t care anymore and just drive straight ahead from point A to B.

 

[Krappadizzle]

i don't think stealth feels like an afterthought at all. i think it feels better than most open world rpg i've played. especially when you get double jump. of course if you compare it to games that purely focus on stealth it won't be as fleshed out.

I think double jump in general makes every class you pick better. After my first playthrough, I was sure to get double jump immediately on my second. But I'm not sure why you think it feels better than most open world games. Certainly not better than Prey, MGSV, Dishonored, Far Cry, Tomb Raider, etc..... What I think the game does really well considering it's an open world game, is it's shooting and weapons(besides it's incredible visuals). I think it plays very comparably to Far Cry, maybe not quite as tight, but close enough. The "stealth" skills are pretty bad in the tree too, +20% to detection time or Invisible while underwater. The weapons are super fun though, love double jumping around the rooftops popping off heads with the revolver or slowing time and chopping up people like Deadpool with my sword.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

If you play those games by rushing from waypoint marker to waypoint marker without exploring the environments, using the various tools/abilities at your disposal and thinking outside the box then yeh I can see how you might arrive at that conclusion.

I mean based on your viewpoints on cyberpunk I'm assuming you've just taken the way you play cyberpunk and projected it on to me and how I play those games you compared it to. I already said I've beaten Prey five times specifically because I kept doing it differently. I'm doing the same thing with cyberpunk.

Ofcourse not, its in the ballpark of Invisible War.

Here's a door you need 10 in body to open, but also here's a hole in the fence 2 metres away you don't need any skills here and here's an open window you don't need any skills here too etc. The level design is very repetitive and obvious and always trivialises any skill investments.

The door that requires 10 body might avoid the heavier patrols and a camera. It might have better loot behind it and maybe it has a computer you can hack or check the surveillance system with. Without double jump the window may be inaccessible. As far as repetitive goes I wouldn't argue that too much because no game were comparing it to has as many playgrounds as this game does.

 

[harmny]

I think double jump in general makes every class you pick better. After my first playthrough, I was sure to get double jump immediately on my second. But I'm not sure why you think it feels better than most open world games. Certainly not better than Prey, MGSV, Dishonored, Far Cry, Tomb Raider, etc..... What I think the game does really well considering it's an open world game, is it's shooting and weapons(besides it's incredible visuals). I think it plays very comparably to Far Cry, maybe not quite as tight, but close enough. The "stealth" skills are pretty bad in the tree too, +20% to detection time or Invisible while underwater. The weapons are super fun though, love double jumping around the rooftops popping off heads with the revolver or slowing time and chopping up people like Deadpool with my sword.

well i didn't say open world games. i said open world rpgs. those you mentioned aren't open world rpgs. however i think it feels way better than far cry for sure.

 

[Elder Legend]

Yeah... more like a benchmark for the first major game ever to be taken down a PS store and then refunded. Great benchmark indeed!

 

[harmny]

Yeah... more like a benchmark for the first major game ever to be taken down a PS store and then refunded. Great benchmark indeed!

well it is a good benchmark for how to act if you release something in a bad shape. the game was taken down because cdpr encouraged people to refund it. unlike other developers that act like everything is fine so you can't get your money back (EA, Bethesda)

 

[SnapShot]

Seems relevant

 

[driqe]

Task failed succesfully

 

[sublimit]

Instead of talking out of their asses they should start taking notes from how Hello Games approached their own PR disaster with NMS and do the same. Basically shut up,work and release significant free updates that both improve the game and adding new content.

 

[harmny]

Instead of talking out of their asses they should start taking notes from how Hello Games approached their own PR disaster with NMS and do the same. Basically shut up,work and release significant free updates that both improve the game and adding new content.

they said this in july.

 

[sublimit]

they said this in july.

Yes except they don't shut up.

 

[Bartski]

More like an industry benchmark for how not to release a game. Still hoping for a big DLC comeback to replay it and later contributions from the modding scene

 

[harmny]

More like an industry benchmark for how not to release a game. Still hoping for a big DLC comeback to replay it and later contributions from the modding scene

congratulations you won a prize for being the 100th person in the thread to make the same joke

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

If you play those games by rushing from waypoint marker to waypoint marker without exploring the environments, using the various tools/abilities at your disposal and thinking outside the box then yeh I can see how you might arrive at that conclusion.

Cyberpunk is a lot of things but a systems heavy sandbox it is not. Even Watch Dogs Legion does a better job of that.

I'm gonna get shit for this but fuck it, Ubisoft make the best open world in the industry, there's a reason their games are the one to beat and why it was basically the inspiration of the much beloved BOTW, people just hate Ubisoft games before even giving them a chance and ACTUALLY exploring and experminting with the various systems etc.

CDPR achievments are actually in quest "design" and quality of the side content and it's writing, actual exploration isn't that great and to be honest both of the aforementioned points was done arguably done better in FONV 5 years earlier! But i can't deny The Witcher 3's influence on this generation.

 

[Kadayi]

I dunno. I agree with GHG and I actually like the game. But just because I like it, quite a lot actually, doesn't discredit the very real criticisms. And what GHG said is pretty spot on in my opinion.

I don't see them as, particularly valid criticisms. CP2077 is attempting to provide you, the player with the freedom to navigate missions using the tools and resources available to you within the framework of an open-world RPG experience. None of the games mentioned, are remotely attempting to do the same. They're enclosed experiences and that's a huge factor. I mean what next? Are we going to have a thread bitching out CP2077 because the driving isn't as great as it is in Forza? No shit Sherlock. How many more asynchronous comparisons do we require?

This whole thing reminds me of people moaning about TW3 winning in GOTG thread because they couldn't wrap their heads around the simple fact that for a great many people malleability of play in terms of the gestalt is far more important than any single aspect.

The game is not beyond criticism (I dislike the general NPC behaviour after a fights broken out and the AI driving behaviour is lamentable). But these are very much temporal issues, that can and will be addressed, through patches and updates over the coming months.

I'm over 300 hours deep now just exploring the game, trying out things and checking out the systems and having a blast. But I'm also submitting a lot of bug reports as well.

 

[Entroyp]

I honestly don't understand this game's hype.

Agreed. I’m not saying it’s bad, it’s a good game but saying it’s a benchmark for... anything other than how not to do QA is crazy.